Why Tamils should know sanskrit

by Guest Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:24 am

http://sanskritroots.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/why_tamilians_should_know_sanskrit.pdf

by indophile Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:15 pm

But both Karunanadhi & Jayalalitha don't want it in Madras.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/tamil-nadu/dmk-president-m-karunanidhi-condemns-sanskrit-week-in-chennai-asks-centre-to-rework-plan-562566

by Guest Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:25 pm

indophile wrote:But both Karunanadhi & Jayalalitha don't want it in Madras.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/tamil-nadu/dmk-president-m-karunanidhi-condemns-sanskrit-week-in-chennai-asks-centre-to-rework-plan-562566

Is the state govt going to oppose the celebrations that CBSE and other schools want to organize in their schools?

by indophile Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:36 am

Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:08 am

If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

by Kayalvizhi Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:34 am

Why is it always Tamils getting the stick? Tamils should leaern hindi, Tamils should learn Sanskrit? How about Hindians learning Tamil and understand how independent Tamil is from Sanskrit?

Afyer all, Tamil is the oldest living language of South Asia.

by southindian Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:44 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:Why is it always Tamils getting the stick? Tamils should leaern hindi, Tamils should learn Sanskrit? How about Hindians learning Tamil and understand how independent Tamil is from Sanskrit?

Afyer all, Tamil is the oldest living language of South Asia.

KV uncle, Tamils may or may not learn French, Japanese or Swahili. Who cares.

If you visit Chennai and other towns you'll find out, Tamils do know Hindi. Hotel staff, Taxi drives and most shop owners can understand and speak the language.

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:58 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:Why is it always Tamils getting the stick? Tamils should leaern hindi, Tamils should learn Sanskrit? How about Hindians learning Tamil and understand how independent Tamil is from Sanskrit?

Afyer all, Tamil is the oldest living language of South Asia.

Ouch!
Does the anti-Hindi and anti-NI campaign by you help your real evangelical agenda through divide and conquer?

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:52 pm

indophile wrote:Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx

What an irony! On the one hand they oppose the 'imposition', on the other hand, they want to curb the free will of private schools. Does the state govt even the authority to do so?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:17 pm

Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx
What an irony! On the one hand they oppose the 'imposition', on the other hand, they want to curb the free will of private schools. Does the state govt even the authority to do so?

Imagine a Naarthie CBSE school celebrating 'tamil week' Unless it is a sanskrit school or Veda Patasala, the schools and ANY CBSE should not celebrate sanskrit week unless they also celebrate tamil week all over India.

Education comes under State authority.

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:52 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx
What an irony! On the one hand they oppose the 'imposition', on the other hand, they want to curb the free will of private schools. Does the state govt even the authority to do so?

Imagine a Naarthie CBSE school celebrating 'tamil week' Unless it is a sanskrit school or Veda Patasala, the schools and ANY CBSE should not celebrate sanskrit week unless they also celebrate tamil week all over India.

Education comes under State authority.

on the one hand you claim to be a hindu. on the other hand, you say you are opposed to any celebration of sanskrit which is the language of the Hindu scriptures like the Veda. are you not being self-contradictory?

most tamilians who are hindus prefer to have their funeral rites performed in sanskrit as per hindu ritual.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:12 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

many ordinary tamilians, whatever that means, do have exposure to sanskrit to realize that the languages have different origins, and any relationship is through geographical coming together of people rather than common origins, a simple point which you have relentlessly argued against at sulekha in the past.

it's a simple point really with many tamilians. no opposition to sanskrit, but no special status to it either.

what's more our positions are arrived at from a position of non negligible exposure to sanskrit on my part and zero exposure to tamil on your part.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:18 pm

Funny how the center would love to suck up to the minority Muslims celebrating Iftar parties but when it comes to language the center abuses, exploits, and discriminates the minority Tamils and other Languagans.

by indophile Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:53 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Funny how the center would love to suck up to the minority Muslims celebrating Iftar parties but when it comes to language the center abuses, exploits, and discriminates the minority Tamils and other Languagans.

Wonder if Urdu will be a required language in schools in Telangana.

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx
What an irony! On the one hand they oppose the 'imposition', on the other hand, they want to curb the free will of private schools. Does the state govt even the authority to do so?

Imagine a Naarthie CBSE school celebrating 'tamil week' Unless it is a sanskrit school or Veda Patasala, the schools and ANY CBSE should not celebrate sanskrit week unless they also celebrate tamil week all over India.

Education comes under State authority.

I don't understand your logic.

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

many ordinary tamilians, whatever that means, do have exposure to sanskrit to realize that the languages have different origins, and any relationship is through geographical coming together of people rather than common origins, a simple point which you have relentlessly argued against at sulekha in the past.

it's a simple point really with many tamilians. no opposition to sanskrit, but no special status to it either.

what's more our positions are arrived at from a position of non negligible exposure to sanskrit on my part and zero exposure to tamil on your part.

If Tamilians do not wish to accord special status to Sanskrit then why would the vast majority of them want their funeral rites to be performed exclusively in Sanskrit?

by bw Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:55 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
indophile wrote:Yes. Jayalalitha thinks celebrating a Sanskrit week in CSBE shools in TN is inappropriate. In her opinion it should be left to the states on what classical language to celebrate.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/jaya-opposes-sanskrit-week-celebrations-in-schools/article1-1242174.aspx
What an irony! On the one hand they oppose the 'imposition', on the other hand, they want to curb the free will of private schools. Does the state govt even the authority to do so?

Imagine a Naarthie CBSE school celebrating 'tamil week' Unless it is a sanskrit school or Veda Patasala, the schools and ANY CBSE should not celebrate sanskrit week unless they also celebrate tamil week all over India.

Education comes under State authority.

CBSE schools are not under state authority. hindi is compulsary till class 8, for one (ok, that was the case during my days).

“Tamil Nadu has a rich cultural heritage based on the ancient Tamil language and there has also been a strong social justice and language movement. Hence, any official celebration of Sanskrit Week in Tamil Nadu is highly inappropriate,” the chief minister said.

"hence"? what's the connection? what next, just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

by Kayalvizhi Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

>>> just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

No. Indian government, using tax money, should not celebrate chapathi week in TN. It is ok if some Hindians on their own celebrate it.

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:03 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:>>> just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

No. Indian government, using tax money, should not celebrate chapathi week in TN. It is ok if some Hindians on their own celebrate it.

Are the CBSE and other schools getting tax money from TN govt to celebrate Sanskrit week in their schools?

by bw Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:06 pm

Kayalvizhi wrote:>>> just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

No. Indian government, using tax money, should not celebrate chapathi week in TN. It is ok if some Hindians on their own celebrate it.

it is being done at CBSE schools, where hindi and sanskrit are taught anyway. what next, they should not have a shakespeare week? sanskrit is like latin and has a classical status. CBSE schools follow a national curriculum. those who are so hung up on tamil should study in state board schools and canvass to ban CBSE schools from the state.

this is just a stupid political thing.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:16 pm

bw wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>>> just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

No. Indian government, using tax money, should not celebrate chapathi week in TN. It is ok if some Hindians on their own celebrate it.

it is being done at CBSE schools, where hindi and sanskrit are taught anyway. what next, they should not have a shakespeare week? sanskrit is like latin and has a classical status. CBSE schools follow a national curriculum. those who are so hung up on tamil should study in state board schools and canvass to ban CBSE schools from the state.

this is just a stupid political thing.

what makes a language classical?

by bw Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
Kayalvizhi wrote:>>> just because we have a rich tradition of idli and dosai, no one should have a bengali or marathi food festival anywhere in TN because it will be highly inappropriate?

No. Indian government, using tax money, should not celebrate chapathi week in TN. It is ok if some Hindians on their own celebrate it.

it is being done at CBSE schools, where hindi and sanskrit are taught anyway. what next, they should not have a shakespeare week? sanskrit is like latin and has a classical status. CBSE schools follow a national curriculum. those who are so hung up on tamil should study in state board schools and canvass to ban CBSE schools from the state.

this is just a stupid political thing.

what makes a language classical?

i know where you are going with this. tamil is *also* a classical language. by all means, encourage or even demand that CBSE include tamil as well in this "celebration of classical languages" series but to say that celebrating sanskrit in TN is "highly inappropriate" sounds stupid and parochial.

by Guest Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:08 pm

Rashmun wrote:
If Tamilians do not wish to accord special status to Sanskrit then why would the vast majority of them want their funeral rites to be performed exclusively in Sanskrit?

Not just funeral rites, even wedding rites and almost all other religious rites and pujas are performed in Sanskrit. All the original hindu scriptures are in sanskrit. Poets from all over india have written in sanskrit. Many carnatic music keertanas are in Sanskrit. Original works in Philosophy, mathematics, ayurveda, yoga, arts and all are in sanskrit. Many indian languages are derived from sanskrit. Sanskrit has a heavy influence on other indian languages. So yeah, what's so wrong in celebrating that great language?
I was watching a quiz show a a lil while ago. One of the questions was, which indian defense branch has the motto, Nabhaḥ-Spṛśaṃ Dīptam, a verse from Bhagavad Gita. It happens to be Indian Airforce. I googled for more. It's going to give heart burn to some. Here's the list (Indian defense, judiciary and other major govt institutions):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_institutions_which_have_Sanskrit_phrases_as_their_mottoes

More here (all IITs, IIMs and other major educational institutions):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_educational_institutions_which_have_Sanskrit_phrases_as_their_mottoes

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:32 pm

Rashmun wrote:http://sanskritroots.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/why_tamilians_should_know_sanskrit.pdf

i didn't click on this post until now! you're such a clown! posting an article in a language in which you are essentially an illiterate to bolster some stupid agenda!

it's like me urging germans to learn latin by posting an article that espouses this idea in german, a language of which i know not a lick, and then expect to be taken seriously by readers who are fully aware of my illiteracy in german!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:09 pm

Ok...Let me clarify (with my usual authoritative conviction):

CBSE or ISC or SSLC or Matric - all educational schools are under State authority. It is the state that allows schools to "follow" different "Curricula" That does not mean those schools come under central authority. Just like the IB Schools in Bombay and Delhi don't come under Swiss authority.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:12 pm

what's even funnier is that it's quite possible that many tamilians' knowledge and exposure to sanskrit exceeds rashmun's knowledge of sanskrit whose only real interest in life is researching the mass of akbar's testicles.

by Kayalvizhi Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:15 pm

I know A private school must get state permission to adopt CBSE curriculum.

I am not sure if state can demand CBSE schools to teach the state language.

I think that state cannot tell CBSE schools not to make Hindi mandatory subject.

Rashmun,
Please google and paste the answer. I am seriously requesting you. I do not have the time to google around. You are so good at it.

by bw Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:59 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Ok...Let me clarify (with my usual authoritative conviction):

CBSE or ISC or SSLC or Matric - all educational schools are under State authority. It is the state that allows schools to "follow" different "Curricula" That does not mean those schools come under central authority. Just like the IB Schools in Bombay and Delhi don't come under Swiss authority.

maybe they should ask the CBSE students if they like the idea of sanskrit week - let them decide.

by swapna Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:35 am

indophile wrote:But both Karunanadhi & Jayalalitha don't want it in Madras.

But maybe one of them wants it.

by Kris Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:05 am

bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Ok...Let me clarify (with my usual authoritative conviction):

CBSE or ISC or SSLC or Matric - all educational schools are under State authority. It is the state that allows schools to "follow" different "Curricula" That does not mean those schools come under central authority. Just like the IB Schools in Bombay and Delhi don't come under Swiss authority.

maybe they should ask the CBSE students if they like the idea of sanskrit week - let them decide.

>>>Good idea. Your point in another post that this is just politics is on the money. As best as I remember many of the students in these schools were either children of parents who bounced around the country due to job transfers or folks from other states. As a percentage of the statewide student population the CBSE students must be a rather small percentage. I am not sure many people would really care about this either. It is not as though Sanskrit is wiping out Tamil or is so alien to the population of Tamilnadu to cause so much consternation. As other have pointed out, it is used in Hindu rituals.

by bw Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:22 am

Kris wrote:
bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Ok...Let me clarify (with my usual authoritative conviction):

CBSE or ISC or SSLC or Matric - all educational schools are under State authority. It is the state that allows schools to "follow" different "Curricula" That does not mean those schools come under central authority. Just like the IB Schools in Bombay and Delhi don't come under Swiss authority.

maybe they should ask the CBSE students if they like the idea of sanskrit week - let them decide.
>>>Good idea. Your point in another post that this is just politics is on the money. As best as I remember many of the students in these schools were either children of parents who bounced around the country due to job transfers or folks from other states. As a percentage of the statewide student population the CBSE students must be a rather small percentage. I am not sure many people would really care about this either. It is not as though Sanskrit is wiping out Tamil or is so alien to the population of Tamilnadu to cause so much consternation. As other have pointed out, it is used in Hindu rituals.

that describes kendriya vidyalaya schools better who also follow the CBSE syllabus. yes, it is true that people who anticipate moving to other states choose CBSE over the state board.

by Kris Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:59 am

bw wrote:
Kris wrote:
bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Ok...Let me clarify (with my usual authoritative conviction):

CBSE or ISC or SSLC or Matric - all educational schools are under State authority. It is the state that allows schools to "follow" different "Curricula" That does not mean those schools come under central authority. Just like the IB Schools in Bombay and Delhi don't come under Swiss authority.

maybe they should ask the CBSE students if they like the idea of sanskrit week - let them decide.
>>>Good idea. Your point in another post that this is just politics is on the money. As best as I remember many of the students in these schools were either children of parents who bounced around the country due to job transfers or folks from other states. As a percentage of the statewide student population the CBSE students must be a rather small percentage. I am not sure many people would really care about this either. It is not as though Sanskrit is wiping out Tamil or is so alien to the population of Tamilnadu to cause so much consternation. As other have pointed out, it is used in Hindu rituals.

that describes kendriya vidyalaya schools better who also follow the CBSE syllabus. yes, it is true that people who anticipate moving to other states choose CBSE over the state board.

>>>You are correct. I was specifically thinking about the KV schools. If people are going to bounce around the country the CBSE seems logical.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:35 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

many ordinary tamilians, whatever that means, do have exposure to sanskrit to realize that the languages have different origins, and any relationship is through geographical coming together of people rather than common origins, a simple point which you have relentlessly argued against at sulekha in the past.

it's a simple point really with many tamilians. no opposition to sanskrit, but no special status to it either.

what's more our positions are arrived at from a position of non negligible exposure to sanskrit on my part and zero exposure to tamil on your part.

You guys in south India are really indoctrinated through the study of Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) in your schools into thinking that whatever similarities in south Indian languages (you call them Dravidian languages) and Sanskrit and other languages in north India are there is the result of geographical coming together (from north to south, as proposed in the AIT) and not for any other reasons (e.g. common / parallel development of languages, etc.). No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:46 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://sanskritroots.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/why_tamilians_should_know_sanskrit.pdf

i didn't click on this post until now! you're such a clown! posting an article in a language in which you are essentially an illiterate to bolster some stupid agenda!

it's like me urging germans to learn latin by posting an article that espouses this idea in german, a language of which i know not a lick, and then expect to be taken seriously by readers who are fully aware of my illiteracy in german!

i found the link to the article on my twitter feed and thought i would share it here. Could you tell me the arguments the writer is giving as to why tamils should know sanskrit? Thanks!

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:05 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

many ordinary tamilians, whatever that means, do have exposure to sanskrit to realize that the languages have different origins, and any relationship is through geographical coming together of people rather than common origins, a simple point which you have relentlessly argued against at sulekha in the past.

it's a simple point really with many tamilians. no opposition to sanskrit, but no special status to it either.

what's more our positions are arrived at from a position of non negligible exposure to sanskrit on my part and zero exposure to tamil on your part.

You guys in south India are really indoctrinated through the study of Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) in your schools into thinking that whatever similarities in south Indian languages (you call them Dravidian languages) and Sanskrit and other languages in north India are there is the result of geographical coming together (from north to south, as proposed in the AIT) and not for any other reasons (e.g. common / parallel development of languages, etc.). No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.

i also believe in the aryan migration theory, however i also recognize the importance of sanskrit in indian culture. let us keep these two things separate.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:12 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote: No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.

Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:21 am

Kinnera wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

the fact that tamil has a body of literature which goes back more than a thousand years has to be respected. However, all said and done Tamil is a regional language. On the other hand, sanskrit is a national language in the sense that it was the common language of the intelligentsia--including tamilians-- inhabiting modern India (and even other parts of South Asia which are not currently part of modern India). For instance, the tamil philosopher Ramanuja has written all his serious philosophical works like his commentary to the Vedas and Upanisads, his commentary on Bhagwad Gita, his criticism of Adi Sankaracharya's views in sanskrit. In fact, all serious philosophical writings by any intellectual in India would invariably be in sanskrit. It is only the light literature like devotional poetry which would be in the regional language like telugu or tamil or bengali.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:28 am

Kinnera wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

I had a Tamilian roommate (from Madurai, I think) during the first year at IIT KGP (1965). His name had Sanskrit roots, but he still bitched about Sanskrit, criticized brahmins, claimed to be a real DMK and talked frequently of NI/SI (Aryan/Dravidian) divide. Seems like the result of too much exposure to the AIT during formative (early school) years.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:37 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:If ordinary Tamilians learn Sanskrit, they will find out first-hand how closely Tamil and Sanskrit are related to each other, instead of relying on the foreigners and local "language-specialists" telling them that Tamil and Sanskrit have no relationship.

many ordinary tamilians, whatever that means, do have exposure to sanskrit to realize that the languages have different origins, and any relationship is through geographical coming together of people rather than common origins, a simple point which you have relentlessly argued against at sulekha in the past.

it's a simple point really with many tamilians. no opposition to sanskrit, but no special status to it either.

what's more our positions are arrived at from a position of non negligible exposure to sanskrit on my part and zero exposure to tamil on your part.

You guys in south India are really indoctrinated through the study of Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) in your schools into thinking that whatever similarities in south Indian languages (you call them Dravidian languages) and Sanskrit and other languages in north India are there is the result of geographical coming together (from north to south, as proposed in the AIT) and not for any other reasons (e.g. common / parallel development of languages, etc.). No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.

i also believe in the aryan migration theory, however i also recognize the importance of sanskrit in indian culture. let us keep these two things separate.

Why?

Check out the article A41 on the origins of Sanskrit etc. (including the AIT) in the following,
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_aoi30gM1_nVkgwdHNTSG4tVDA&usp=sharing

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:45 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

I had a Tamilian roommate (from Madurai, I think) during the first year at IIT KGP (1965). His name had Sanskrit roots, but he still bitched about Sanskrit, criticized brahmins, claimed to be a real DMK and talked frequently of NI/SI (Aryan/Dravidian) divide. Seems like the result of too much exposure to the AIT during formative (early school) years.

So?...what if their names had sanskrit roots? Does it mean they should fall at the feet whenever a hindian says anything ?

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:47 am

>> how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names.

I can

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:50 am

Kayalvizhi wrote:>> how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names.

I can

Real name, not kayalvizhi. Also tell me that none in your immediate family has sanskrit/sanskrit derivative names. The thing is, since you guys know only tamil and no other indian language, you can't tell if it's a sanskrit name or not.

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:54 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

I had a Tamilian roommate (from Madurai, I think) during the first year at IIT KGP (1965). His name had Sanskrit roots, but he still bitched about Sanskrit, criticized brahmins, claimed to be a real DMK and talked frequently of NI/SI (Aryan/Dravidian) divide. Seems like the result of too much exposure to the AIT during formative (early school) years.

So?...what if their names had sanskrit roots? Does it mean they should fall at the feet whenever a hindian says anything ?

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

Feeling like a slave=low self esteem.

Sanskrit isn't a north indian language or a south indian language or an east or west indian language. It belongs to everyone.

by Kayalvizhi Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:55 am

>>tell me that none in your immediate family has sanskrit/sanskrit derivative names.

I can tell that

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:01 am

Kinnera wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.
Feeling like a slave=low self esteem.

Sanskrit isn't a north indian language or a south indian language or an east or west indian language. It belongs to everyone.

It is not low esteem.. It is more like "fake esteem" on the part of Hindians.

Sanskrit belongs to everyone? Yeah rite.. so what? does not mean it can be forced on everyone. Everyone should get the feeling of belonging and VOLUNTARILY celebrate sanskrit - if at all they want to.

by Maria S Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:04 am

I guess "Tamils".."should" be told to do..what's good "for them!"

This "Tamil" speaks for herself and says- that it's such a total turn off!

I do understand the "religious" traditions and related sensitivities..to each her/his own..
Again speaking for myself..I would be outraged if someone tells me- I "should" pray, chant and read the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.
If "God" does not understand my Tamil..too bad.. God needs to learn some Tamil..and Heaven badly needs some Tamil courses and a lot more:)

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:09 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

I had a Tamilian roommate (from Madurai, I think) during the first year at IIT KGP (1965). His name had Sanskrit roots, but he still bitched about Sanskrit, criticized brahmins, claimed to be a real DMK and talked frequently of NI/SI (Aryan/Dravidian) divide. Seems like the result of too much exposure to the AIT during formative (early school) years.

So?...what if their names had sanskrit roots? Does it mean they should fall at the feet whenever a hindian says anything ?

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

why were all the eminent tamil philosophers like Ramanuja, Vedanta Desika, etc. writing their serious philosophical works in sanskrit? the fact that they were doing so shows that sanskrit is also a language of the tamils. see also:

Tamil culture quaffs through the centuries from two sources, one being pan-Indian Sanskrit and the other regional but no less ancient, its brilliant debut the Sangam Corpus: two “classical” languages for a single culture, alternately following the song which has been taken up progressively in the second millennium by other regional, and especially Dravidian, literatures.

Echoes from Kashmir sound in the Tevaram and, if Vaisnavas are divided over the two languages, the songs of the Alvars are accepted unanimously as a Tamil Veda.

The medieval commentators formulated the poetic rules of Tamil literature, sometimes integrating it into the Sanskrit tradition the better to affirm its status. The exploits of the Chola kings are celebrated in inscriptions by both Sanskrit prasasti and Tamil meykkirtti.

A little later, Arunakiri Natar played with equally virtuosity on the verbal register of the two languages, though this game is a tradition practised mainly by a bi-lingual elite. The Buddhists and Jains have their Sanskrit derived source texts in Pali and Ardhamagadhi but it was Tamil they chose for epic masterworks.

Both linguistic registers make their contribution to all technical literature to the extent that it would be possible, seemingly, to attain mastery of the sastra by intensive practice of either one of them.

Two deep currents then have coexisted down the centuries, conscious to be sure of their differences, but never in major conflict. This happy equilibrium was broken, however, in the middle of the 19th c. due mostly to political factors; the confrontation culminated in the resistance of Tamil in the face of Hindi, perceived as being imposed by the North on a South driven onto the defensive.

How may the harmony history suggests to us be retrieved, if not through the systematic development in all domains of the knowledge and perception of the common sources of our culture?

The method used will be to provide a neutral, common platform for discussion and brainstorming amongst scholars specialized in various fields of Tamil and Sanskrit such as Grammar, Linguistics, Lexicography, Philosophy, Literature and History.

http://www.ifpindia.org/Relationship-Between-Tamil-and-Sanskrit.html

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:10 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

LOL. The basic idea in learning a language is to educate oneself and to acquire knowledge by the learner and not for doing a favor to others.
Sanskrit seems to be the language of south Indians (including the TNers) as it is for those living in north India, as indicated by the Sanskrit names of most of the people in South India (especially the Hindus, excluding of course those Hindus who had taken up other religions in the past, Islam and Christianity etc.).

by Guest Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:11 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote: No wonder the ex-C.M. in your state (TN), who even has a Sanskrit name himself, considers Sansrit as an outside language (from the north) and asks his followers in the state to get rid of their Sanskrit names.
Even the current CM's name is a Sanskrit name (Jaya lalitha). Her birth name (Komalavalli) has Sanskrit origins too. I wonder how many here can claim their names to be non-Sanskrit names. As far as i know, none in my immediate or my huge extended family has any non-sanskrit name (sanskrit or sanskrit derivative).

Tamilians are just fanatical about their language, while having no confidence in it. This explains their paranoia about Sanskrit overshadowing Tamil. If they truly believe in the greatness of their language, which they constantly brag about, they need not feel any kind of threat from any language. Celebrate Tamil, celebrate sanskrit (or let others who want to celebrate it, do so). Why the drama? I guess it's being celebrated all over India. Do we see any resistance from anyone else?

I had a Tamilian roommate (from Madurai, I think) during the first year at IIT KGP (1965). His name had Sanskrit roots, but he still bitched about Sanskrit, criticized brahmins, claimed to be a real DMK and talked frequently of NI/SI (Aryan/Dravidian) divide. Seems like the result of too much exposure to the AIT during formative (early school) years.

It is the result of indoctrination of divisive politics. Aryan migration may or may not have happened. Even if it happened, it did so thousands of years ago. Why the divisive tendencies even now? look at this example: Someone migrates to US from India about 15 yrs ago, gets naturalized here and feels that he belongs to this country and develops an affinity for it and its people. His daughter believes that her mother tongue is english and not the indian language. He is pretty anal about english too. The irony is that he doesn't want to feel that kind of affinity for his fellow indians or for the language that he sees as something that came to south india from outside. All the thousand years of blending doesn't matter. It's still foreign!

The thing is, how far back does one want to go? If you go back a few more thousand years, dravidians migrated from some where else and don't belong to south india either.

Small world, too many divisions!

by Maria S Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:22 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

You guys STILL don't get it...do you ?

It is one thing if the tamilians took a sanskrit name or learnt hindi for whatever personal reason. But, to think that automatically made them a slave of hindi/sanskrit and mortgaged their mother, wife, family and everything to hindians is utter stupidity and childish thinking. That is what hindian like MullahYam and Al-Akbari assume.

An illiterate population that does not have even a basic capability to learn their own language should not expect others to learn their language.

LOL. The basic idea in learning a language is to educate oneself and to acquire knowledge by the learner and not for doing a favor to others.
Sanskrit seems to be the language of south Indians (including the TNers) as it is for those living in north India, as indicated by the Sanskrit names of most of the people in South India (especially the Hindus, excluding of course those Hindus who had taken up other religions in the past, Islam and Christianity etc.).

Oh Et Tu, dear Seva!

Of course it's not a favor to others..so "others" should not keep lecturing and "implying" that we - majority Tamils don't know any better...if we are happy, just leave us alone:)

I would never tell you and other Non-Tamils..which languages you "should know"..to acquire knowledge.

It does create- unnecessary divisions and problems.

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