Why there can never be a Charlie Hebdo in India

by Guest Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:41 am

Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."

by Kris Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:56 am

Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."

>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:09 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

If you think this is draconian, check out Section 66A of the IT Act:

http://sflc.in/information-technology-act-and-rules-time-to-change/

by Guest Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:26 am

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/no-country-for-free-speech-says-penguin/article5688586.ece

by southindian Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:58 pm

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

Such Indian laws are paper laws, used for paper planes to fly in the direction of wind.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:11 pm

Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

by Hellsangel Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:14 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Perumal Murugan's book too.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Prumal Murugan's book too.

piracy laws are a different ball game. the question was if this section of the penal code is enforced. certainly it is, and the publishers abide by it. penguin didn't publish whatsherface professor's book, the one from u of chicago who suggested that ganesha's trunk was actually a limp phallus.

by Hellsangel Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote: penguin didn't publish whatsherface professor's book, the one from u of chicago who suggested that ganesha's trunk was actually a limp phallus.

More details, please.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:57 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote: penguin didn't publish whatsherface professor's book, the one from u of chicago who suggested that ganesha's trunk was actually a limp phallus.

More details, please.

on what? on penguin's decision or the limp phallus thesis?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:59 pm

http://www.penguinbooksindia.com/en/content/penguin-india%E2%80%99s-statement-%E2%80%98-hindus%E2%80%99-wendy-doniger
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/13/penguin-withdrawal-hindus-arundhati-roy-neil-gaiman

by the way, based on past readings of her work, i agree that her work can be characterized as:

"a shallow, distorted and non-serious presentation of Hinduism" which is "riddled with heresies and factual inaccuracies"

that still doesn't warrant not publishing it if the publisher wants to and there is an idiotic audience that wants to read it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:11 pm

ok so the limp phallus idiot is not doniger, but another person. i think this genius is doniger's student:

http://rajivmalhotra.com/library/articles/risa-lila-2-limp-scholarship-demonology/

while i disagree with malhotra's suggested remedies, i agree with his criticism of doniger and her ilk's works. let them knock themselves out with their moronic writings. practising hindus and hindu scholars know what the symbolism means. why should this bother anyone?

by southindian Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:21 pm

Interesting!

How did the author imagine to come up with making ganesha's trunk as phallus?

How much is Okay for authors stretching their imagination in the name of free speech.

Could he or any other cartoonist show a cartoon of

   Jesus fornicating with his mother Mary?
   Jesus's mother Mary sucking Jesus's phallus?
   Jesus shown as playboy?
   Jesus asking to masturbate one last time when he's taken to the cross.

Could an author come with above sick imagination in a book/cartoon and also allowed to write/sketch?

What is the limit of free speech for authors/cartoonists?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:24 pm

southindian wrote:Interesting!

How did the author imagine to come up with making ganesha's trunk as phallus?

How much is Okay for authors stretching their imagination in the name of free speech.

Could he or any other cartoonist show a cartoon of

   Jesus fornicating with his mother Mary?
   Jesus's mother Mary sucking Jesus's phallus?
   Jesus shown as playboy?
   Jesus asking to masturbate one last time when he's taken to the cross.

Could an author come with above sick imagination in a book/cartoon and also allowed to write/sketch?

What is the limit of free speech for authors/cartoonists?

if you look hard enough, all of these have probably been done at some point or the other. i don't know the specific examples you have in mind, but google for something titled "piss christ". for once you ask a good question:

What is the limit of free speech for authors/cartoonists?

we all probably have different answers to that question depending on our level of tolerance, but i hope we can all agree that nothing justifies violence.

by southindian Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:43 pm

I have no plans to search "piss Christ". I find the above Jesus imagination disgusting and those sick who would spend time to make such cartoons or sketches. They are inclined to offend others and since they know what they are doing, they could be termed sadists.

I also find the author mentally disturbed who would imagine Ganesha's trunk as phallus.

The world is not made up of robots yet, having same level of tolerance. Obviously as we have discovered, many people are not as emotionally strong as you are and get easily upset with cartoons/sketches. They can't easily ignore what you can.

But the question remains... On that slider of tolerance, what is optimal for everyone in today's networked world?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:05 pm

southindian wrote:I have no plans to search "piss Christ". I find the above Jesus imagination disgusting and those sick who would spend time to make such cartoons or sketches. They are inclined to offend others and since they know what they are doing, they could be termed sadists.

I also find the author mentally disturbed who would imagine Ganesha's trunk as phallus.

The world is not made up of robots yet, having same level of tolerance. Obviously as we have discovered, many people are not as emotionally strong as you are and get easily upset with cartoons/sketches. They can't easily ignore what you can.

But the question remains... On that slider of tolerance, what is optimal for everyone in today's networked world?

i find people who want to wantonly offend others' religious sensibilities and desecrate their symbols moronic and think of them as people who haven't gotten out of their adolescence. however, it's entirely their prerogative if they want to advertise their moronhood to the rest of the world, just like it's our prerogative to look away and totally ignore them.

by Guest Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:18 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:ok so the limp phallus idiot is not doniger, but another person. i think this genius is doniger's student:

http://rajivmalhotra.com/library/articles/risa-lila-2-limp-scholarship-demonology/

while i disagree with malhotra's suggested remedies, i agree with his criticism of doniger and her ilk's works. let them knock themselves out with their moronic writings. practising hindus and hindu scholars know what the symbolism means. why should this bother anyone?

That war dates back to a 2002 article by Rajiv Malhotra, whose name was printed above Dhiru Shah’s letter. On his website, Malhotra describes himself as an “Indian–American researcher, writer, speaker and public intellectual on current affairs as they relate to civilizations, cross-cultural encounters, religion and science.” The article, ‘Wendy’s child syndrome,’ was published on the website Sulekha.com. It’s a critique of the dominant modes of scholarship on Hinduism in US academia. As the title suggests, Malhotra sees Doniger and her students as the most prominent perpetrators of this scholarship, which, according to him, caricatures Hinduism.

In the article, Malhotra decries the frequent and rather uncritical use of psychoanalytical literary analysis. His primary example is an undergraduate textbook first published by Oxford University Press, in 1985, and authored by Paul Courtright, a professor of religion and Asian studies at Emory University in Atlanta. Malhotra quotes at length a passage on the god Ganesha:

from a psychoanalytic perspective, there is meaning in the selection of the elephant head. Its trunk is the displaced phallus, a caricature of Siva’s linga. It poses no threat because it is too large, flaccid, and in the wrong place to be useful for sexual purposes. ... So Ganesa takes on the attributes of his father but in an inverted form, with an exaggerated limp phallus—ascetic and benign—whereas Siva is “hard,” erotic, and destructive.

It’s not difficult to sympathise with Malhotra’s indignation over what is essentially pop psychology—and if matters had ended with the article, or the birth of an alternative discourse, there would have been little reason to complain. But, as Shah noted in his letter, the activists in Atlanta went after Courtright. Within a year of ‘Wendy’s child syndrome’ being published, petitions were drafted against his book and indignant protests were organised. Although there was little chance of getting the text withdrawn in the United States, the publisher Motilal Banarsidass, which had reprinted the book in India in 2001, withdrew it from circulation.

Many of the works named by Malhotra, in ‘Wendy’s child syndrome’ and in other articles, have been similarly targeted. As with Courtright’s textbook, battles fought in the United States were used to ensure that no one in India could access the other impugned works. The legal attack on Doniger’s books, which involved two criminal FIRs and a civil suit, was only a culmination of such efforts.

In a recent interview, Malhotra was asked whether he was part of the litigation against Doniger. He replied, “I deliberately decided that this should run its course through the legal system. I do not want any part of it. I’m available as a scholar. My criticisms of the writings are very publicly available. I’ve always said anybody can quote them freely, but I don’t want to be drawn into a legal matter myself.” When I asked Sharma why the letter from Shah had been printed under the heading Rajiv Malhotra, he told me, “woh ek hi toli ke hain”—they are part of the same group. In other words, as far as Batra and his samiti are concerned, Malhotra is part of the organisation that instigated and funded the legal case against Doniger.

- See more at: http://www.caravanmagazine.in/reportage/pulped#sthash.9ufqfipe.dpuf

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:25 pm

i don't usually respond to rashmun's posts but i will this time because this is a topic that is of some interest to me. i wanted to add that i explicitly remember malhotra asking hindus everywhere to eschew violence. i like it that he has chosen to vigorously trash this sort of hindu psychoanalysis by western "scholars" through his writings. instead of restricting these publications, i prefer that they be allowed to stand so people can see them for the excremence they really are.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:40 pm

so in summary, i still hold freedom of expression nearly absolute. people must either develop a thick skin or respond by using their own freedom of expression.

having said that, there is some muckraking that is tasteful. mel brooks comes to mind.

by Guest Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:24 pm

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:ok so the limp phallus idiot is not doniger, but another person. i think this genius is doniger's student:

http://rajivmalhotra.com/library/articles/risa-lila-2-limp-scholarship-demonology/

while i disagree with malhotra's suggested remedies, i agree with his criticism of doniger and her ilk's works. let them knock themselves out with their moronic writings. practising hindus and hindu scholars know what the symbolism means. why should this bother anyone?

That war dates back to a 2002 article by Rajiv Malhotra, whose name was printed above Dhiru Shah’s letter. On his website, Malhotra describes himself as an “Indian–American researcher, writer, speaker and public intellectual on current affairs as they relate to civilizations, cross-cultural encounters, religion and science.” The article, ‘Wendy’s child syndrome,’ was published on the website Sulekha.com. It’s a critique of the dominant modes of scholarship on Hinduism in US academia. As the title suggests, Malhotra sees Doniger and her students as the most prominent perpetrators of this scholarship, which, according to him, caricatures Hinduism.

In the article, Malhotra decries the frequent and rather uncritical use of psychoanalytical literary analysis. His primary example is an undergraduate textbook first published by Oxford University Press, in 1985, and authored by Paul Courtright, a professor of religion and Asian studies at Emory University in Atlanta. Malhotra quotes at length a passage on the god Ganesha:

from a psychoanalytic perspective, there is meaning in the selection of the elephant head. Its trunk is the displaced phallus, a caricature of Siva’s linga. It poses no threat because it is too large, flaccid, and in the wrong place to be useful for sexual purposes. ... So Ganesa takes on the attributes of his father but in an inverted form, with an exaggerated limp phallus—ascetic and benign—whereas Siva is “hard,” erotic, and destructive.

It’s not difficult to sympathise with Malhotra’s indignation over what is essentially pop psychology—and if matters had ended with the article, or the birth of an alternative discourse, there would have been little reason to complain. But, as Shah noted in his letter, the activists in Atlanta went after Courtright. Within a year of ‘Wendy’s child syndrome’ being published, petitions were drafted against his book and indignant protests were organised. Although there was little chance of getting the text withdrawn in the United States, the publisher Motilal Banarsidass, which had reprinted the book in India in 2001, withdrew it from circulation.

Many of the works named by Malhotra, in ‘Wendy’s child syndrome’ and in other articles, have been similarly targeted. As with Courtright’s textbook, battles fought in the United States were used to ensure that no one in India could access the other impugned works. The legal attack on Doniger’s books, which involved two criminal FIRs and a civil suit, was only a culmination of such efforts.

In a recent interview, Malhotra was asked whether he was part of the litigation against Doniger. He replied, “I deliberately decided that this should run its course through the legal system. I do not want any part of it. I’m available as a scholar. My criticisms of the writings are very publicly available. I’ve always said anybody can quote them freely, but I don’t want to be drawn into a legal matter myself.” When I asked Sharma why the letter from Shah had been printed under the heading Rajiv Malhotra, he told me, “woh ek hi toli ke hain”—they are part of the same group. In other words, as far as Batra and his samiti are concerned, Malhotra is part of the organisation that instigated and funded the legal case against Doniger.

- See more at: http://www.caravanmagazine.in/reportage/pulped#sthash.9ufqfipe.dpuf

14 years ago yours truly had written the following in response to an article written by Rajiv:

strange that rajiv attacks macaulites, and yet quotes profusely from will durant's "our oriental heritage" (written in 1935) when the available scholarship on india--almost all western-- was definitely not neutral due to the colonial era. [further, durant was never an indologist, only a generalist.] strange that rajiv quotes and writes about muslim atrocities on india, but fails to point out that his quotes (many of them from durant's 1935 book) are bound to be biased in as much as these are based upon colonial scholarship and as such are liable to exagerrate the negative features of the hindu/muslim interraction for their own ends. (easier for the brits to rule over india if the hindus and muslims are perpetually hostile to each other.)

strange to note that rajiv makes no mention of the positive features of the hindu-muslim interraction. no mention is made, for example, of akbar. no mention at all, also, of the fact that according to will durant himself (whom malhotra extensively quotes), akbar was the "wisest and justest king asia has ever known", and further that he was one of the most humane and most cultured of all kings known to history. no mention at all of the fact that jahangir would frequently visit the hindu sage jadrup with whom he would have religious and philosophical discussions. (mentioned by j. himself in his autobiography.)

no mention of the fact that wajid ali shah asked his muslim subjects to celebrate holi together with the hindus after the taziya had been carried out since holi had fallen on the same day as moharram on that year, and since hindus had decided not to celebrate holi out of respect for muslim sentiments. no mention of the fact that communal atrocities were carried out in pre-muslim india. for example, harsha of kashmir (this is not the great harshavardhana) destroyed several budhist monastaries; and sasanka of bengal derived considerable success as an anti-budhist crusader, cutting down the sacred tree under which the budha had achieved enlightenment. no mention of the fact that king harshavardhan was attacked murderously by a pasupata assasin--at precisely the spot where he was offering respects to three deities--budha, shiva, and the sun. he survived the attack, but the attack does tell us something about how even the pre-muslim hindus were communal themselves; this is of course understandable considering the age and the times our ancestors were living in. what is not understandable is to glorify that age as a time of spiritual perfection, and then characterise muslims as foriegn barbarians.

no mention of the fact that we have vaisnava works which put the followers of shiva on the same level as a beast or an untouchable. (the durjana-mukha-capiteka of vamsidhara is one of many examples.) no mention of the fact that hindu kings had been destroying temples and idols of rival hindu rulers in pre-muslim india. no mention of the fact that there are images of several budhist deities trampling hindu deities like ganesha. no mention of the fact that hindus themselves are to blame for any foriegn invasions. if they didn't have the ingenuity and courage and strength to deal with foriegn invasions, surely they deserved to perish. to give an example, mohammad bakhtiar--an early muslim invader--was able to drive away the aged laksmanasena from his capital navadvipa (nadiya) by a sudden raid of no more than eighteen horsemen. (the same mohammad bakhtiar attacking tribal areas in north-east india with 10,000 picked horsemen barely managed to return with all but a hundred of his army wiped out.)

no mention of the positve features of the hindu/muslim interraction--how we together fought against the brits in 1857, and how this interracton permeated the essence of indian culture-- in paintings, architechture, poetry, music, food, among other things. i 'll stop now, since there are better things to do in life than wasting time on fanatics like rajiv and his bunch of loony fans. ( a person who writes that "how such sacred geography ended up in evil hands is something i am still trying to come to terms with" is clearly an intellecual non-entity who has much to learn before he seeks to teach others and do his dubious propaganda). hoping that at least some sulekhites will not be taken in by rajiv's rants.

http://creative.sulekha.com/how-gandhara-became-kandahar_103218_blog

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:38 am

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Perumal Murugan's book too.

too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:01 am

total aside: translator of perumal m's book --

http://www.tarshi.net/blog/i-column-a-lingering-tingle/

by Hellsangel Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:10 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Perumal Murugan's book too.

too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

Actually it is interesting that there doesn't seem to be much noise from any of the DK parties. And the fact that the BJP is objecting after so many years.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:17 am

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Perumal Murugan's book too.

too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

Actually it is interesting that there doesn't seem to be much noise from any of the DK parties. And the fact that the BJP is objecting after so many years.

the DK parties are hypocrites of the first order. why expect anything at all from them?

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:10 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Kris wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Section 295 A of the Indian Penal Code states:

"Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of citizens of India, by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

If you think this is draconian, check out Section 66A of the IT Act:

http://sflc.in/information-technology-act-and-rules-time-to-change/

this is anti-chaddi hysteria and rabble-rousing.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/extreme-political-views-not-prohibited-in-cyber-world-government-told-sc/articleshow/45874135.cms

NEW DELHI: The government on Wednesday held out the promise that Section 66A of the Information Technology Act would not be used to stifle political dissent, humour that wasn't vulgar and contrarian views, before a Supreme Court bench that's re-hearing a batch of petitions challenging the legality of the law which confers wide powers of arrest on the police.

A two-judge bench comprising justices Jasti Chelameswar and RF Nariman is re-hearing the case after one of the earlier judges was assigned to another bench. At the start, additional solicitor general Tushar Mehta dispelled fears that the law, if allowed to stand in the statute book in its current form, would be misused to suppress political dissent and humour.

He was defending the legality of the law that came in for criticism after several arrests by police over Facebook and other social media postings. Two young women were arrested in Mumbai over a posting which the Shiv Sena found offensive. A lecturer was arrested in Kolkata for forwarding cartoons of chief minister Mamata Banerjee.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/45874135.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
>>> Is this something that is enforced? At some level, this is draconian and can be misused to throw in the slammer anyone some politician doesn't like.

you bet!

Any law is only as good as it is enforced. Just so you know, I bought a copy of Satanic Verses in India.

Oh, and I bought Perumal Murugan's book too.

too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

Actually it is interesting that there doesn't seem to be much noise from any of the DK parties. And the fact that the BJP is objecting after so many years.

the only thing i can think of is that they are feeling emboldened after the successful contesting of the national elections. the people who usually rail about this sort of thing seem to have lost their collective spine.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:14 pm

supporters of the author arguing with the cops at the madras book fair. over what, i am not sure. there are too many simultaneous voices.

ok so the bearded guy on the mike later on is basically arguing for freedom of expression. if you don't like the book, he's saying, you have the right to express yourself freely, but not to prevent us from reading it. they are just a group of artistes and writers assembled in support of perumal m.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:22 pm

shame on the dravidian parties. shame.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/what-is-behind-dravidian-parties-silence-in-perumal-murugan-issue/article6787696.ece

i am sure they would have come out in droves in support of perumal m if the protagonists in the story were brahmins and they were the ones protesting publication of the book (not that they'd ever be emboldened to act in a collective sense like that). but suddenly the kazhagams have lost their voice because the "aggrieved" party is the gounder community. a-holes the whole lot of them.

by Hellsangel Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:41 pm

Who killed Perumal Murugan?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:00 pm

the irony is that without the english translation, the novel wouldn't have been accessible to the saffron pantied lot who instigated the whole thing in the first place.

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:12 pm

Is there any news item (before jan 7th, when the charles hebdo thing happened) which talks about his attack that is supposed to have happened a month ago?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:26 pm

Kinnera wrote:Is there any news item (before jan 7th, when the charles hebdo thing happened) which talks about his attack that is supposed to have happened a month ago?

the charlie hebdo thing is coincidental. chuddies have been harrassing him for a long time:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-tamilnadu/not-for-ban-on-books-rss/article6731986.ece

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:36 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:Is there any news item (before jan 7th, when the charles hebdo thing happened) which talks about his attack that is supposed to have happened a month ago?

the charlie hebdo thing is coincidental. chuddies have been harrassing him for a long time:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-tamilnadu/not-for-ban-on-books-rss/article6731986.ece

Amid the controversy over Tamil writer Perumal Murugan’s novel Madhorubhagan , Hindutva ideologue and writer Aravindan Neelakantan has reiterated that the RSS had never favoured the idea of banning books.
“Immediately after the ban on Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses, Shiv Sena demanded similar measure against Riddles in Hinduism and its removal from Dr Ambedkar’s collected works. But the RSS opposed the ban and wanted it to be published,” Mr Neelakantan said.
Accusing the media of blowing out of proportion the activities of a few fringe elements in Tiruchengode, he said RSS had nothing to do with this incident.

Ok....leave the above aside. whichever fool is doing this in the name of hinduism, esp about the reasons that i read today, is a first rated moron. Firstly, there's nothing called blasphemy in hinduism. Secondly, if a woman can't conceive with her husband, she was allowed to do so with other men. In case of queens, it was usually a rishi.

There are several examples of such all over Ramayana and Mahabharata. Rama, who they all adore, wasn't born the natural way. For all the 'putra vatsalyam' that Dasartha had for Rama, Rama doens't even have his DNA. same with any of his brothers. When the queens were unable to conceive through him, he sort the help of a rishi and he 'helped' the queens get pregnant.

Same is the case with Pandu, Dhritarashtra and vidhura. When the queens(ambika, ambalika) were widowed, their MIL (satyavati) seeks the help of a rishi (Vyasa? Agasthya?) to help them conceive and he does that.

None of the Pandavas had the DNA of their father. There were all born unnaturally. So were the kauravas.

So, where is the question of the stupid blasphemy(in case they want to stick to the puranas)?

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:52 pm

I do suspect the drama queenish declaration of the author though, esp at this time. THis is the best of the best times. There would've been some noise before, but where is the news item abt his alleged attack/protest that happened a month ago, which is prompting his demise now? Did he even file a police complaint? Is there news about that in the local media at least?

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:13 pm

Kinnera wrote:I do suspect the drama queenish declaration of the author though, esp at this time. THis is the best of the best times. There would've been some noise before, but where is the news item abt his alleged attack/protest that happened a month ago, which is prompting his demise now? Did he even file a police complaint? Is there news about that in the local media at least?

Ah ok. So calling the Hebdo writers hippies was a dastardly justification for their killings. But it's entirely ok to call Perumal a drama queen who is making up his so-called persecution.

And because there is a question-mark at the end of the sentence, this is a honest, open-minded enquiry and not to be misunderstood as a justification of what is being done to him.

Moreover, even assuming for a second that there has indeed been a persecution, these are isolated incidents by fringe elements who have nothing to do with the RSS. Any attempt to connect the dots (church vandalization in Delhi and elsewhere, pre-election riots in Delhi and UP, ghar wapsi rhetoric, vandalization of theaters showing PK etc) are all figments of fevered sickular imagination.

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:31 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I do suspect the drama queenish declaration of the author though, esp at this time. THis is the best of the best times. There would've been some noise before, but where is the news item abt his alleged attack/protest that happened a month ago, which is prompting his demise now? Did he even file a police complaint? Is there news about that in the local media at least?

Ah ok. So calling the Hebdo writers hippies was a dastardly justification for their killings. But it's entirely ok to call Perumal a drama queen who is making up his so-called persecution.

And because there is a question-mark at the end of the sentence, this is a honest, open-minded enquiry and not to be misunderstood as a justification of what is being done to him.

Moreover, even assuming for a second that there has indeed been a persecution, these are isolated incidents by fringe elements who have nothing to do with the RSS. Any attempt to connect the dots (church vandalization in Delhi and elsewhere, pre-election riots in Delhi and UP, ghar wapsi rhetoric, vandalization of theaters showing PK etc) are all figments of fevered sickular imagination.

I never justified nor condemned what the Hebdo guys did. But, criticizing them or calling them names in a sarcastic way soon after the poor guys were shot dead was not the way to do. I said, if you have to criticize, do so after some time. Anything against them at that time gives a justification for the infringed elements (esp the young ones) that what was being done was right.

wrt PK protests, the mild and scattered incidents were blown out of proportion and the usual blame rests on guess who? They were probably made by the followers of the godmen. Who knows! In any case, how will the movie make more than 300 crores if the protests were strong and violent. Making a mountain out of a mole it is.

Check the link that rashmun gave. How soon the news media draws its conclusion and resorts to blame game even before the investigation starts! What all you wrote is speculation, the wishful speculation of guys like you. there is the cc camera footage. let the police investigate it first.

Ghar vapasi...again! no one objected to hindus being converted in all these decades by the missionaries. Where were you all at the time? When a handful of them are reconverted, a huge hullaboo is being made. Everyone can see that.

Same with this dramaqueenish author. He's probably making an issue. Can it not be investigated? You are a super intelligent person. Think logically and rationally.

ppl like you and a section of the media are desperate to find faults, blow them out of proportion and create issues.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:40 pm

Kinnera wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I do suspect the drama queenish declaration of the author though, esp at this time. THis is the best of the best times. There would've been some noise before, but where is the news item abt his alleged attack/protest that happened a month ago, which is prompting his demise now? Did he even file a police complaint? Is there news about that in the local media at least?

Ah ok. So calling the Hebdo writers hippies was a dastardly justification for their killings. But it's entirely ok to call Perumal a drama queen who is making up his so-called persecution.

And because there is a question-mark at the end of the sentence, this is a honest, open-minded enquiry and not to be misunderstood as a justification of what is being done to him.

Moreover, even assuming for a second that there has indeed been a persecution, these are isolated incidents by fringe elements who have nothing to do with the RSS. Any attempt to connect the dots (church vandalization in Delhi and elsewhere, pre-election riots in Delhi and UP, ghar wapsi rhetoric, vandalization of theaters showing PK etc) are all figments of fevered sickular imagination.
I never justified nor condemned what the Hebdo guys did. But, criticizing them or calling them names in a sarcastic way soon after the poor guys were shot dead was not the way to do. I said, if you have to criticize, do so after some time. Anything against them at that time gives a justification for the infringed elements (esp the young ones) that what was being done was right.

wrt PK protest, the mild and scattered incidents were blown out of proportion and the usual blame rests on guess who? How will the movie make more than 300 crores if the protests were strong and violent. Making a mountain out of a mole it is.

Check the link that rashmun gave. How soon the news media draws its conclusion and resorts to blame game even before the investigation starts! What all you wrote is speculation, the wishful speculation of guys like you. there is the cc camera footage. let the police investigate it first.

Ghar vapasi...again! no one objected to hindus being converted in all these decades by the missionaries. When a handful of them are reconverted, a huge hullaboo is being made. Everyone can see that.

Same with this dramaqueenish author. He's probably making an issue. Can it not be investigated? You are a super intelligent person. Think logically and rationally.

ppl like you and a section of the media are desperate to find faults, blow them out of proportion and create issues.

Oh Kinny, why do you keep pretending to be dumb and misunderstanding me? We know you are very smart and can make out that I entirely agreed with you. So you didn't have to violently agree back with me in your 1000-word response.

See, you don't have to feel uncomfortable or self-conscious about anything. You and I are on the same page, singing from the same prayer book which is The Geeta. Together, we will battle those sickular phonies out there and re-establish Hindu pride. Jai Shri Ram. LOL. EOD.

by Guest Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:44 pm

*yawn* how many times are you going to play this over and over and over agian? Find a better way to save your face when you run out of logic, reasoning and are pushed to the wall.

Anyway, i got to sleep now. gnite.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:46 pm

Kinnera wrote:*yawn* how many times are you going to play this over and over and over agian? Find a better way to save your face when you run out of logic, reasoning and are pushed to the wall.

Anyway, i got to sleep now. gnite.

Aww..Don't be like that. I like talking to you Kinny, so I too can become smart like you and learn how to embarrass intellectuals.

Ok g'nite.

PS: I love being pushed to the wall by you.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:01 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

1. Regional writers, by definition, are not known outside their region. It's hard to defend someone purely based on media reports, particularly when the English literati themselves are under siege by the chaddi brigade and regional writers often participate in that persecution.

2. Regional writers invariably and unfailingly look down on Indian writing in English, disdainfully viewing it and the writers as inauthentic and lacking roots, disparaging the commercial success as evidence of lack of literary merit. This is the only point on which regional writers on the extreme left as well as the extreme right agree upon.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:19 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
too bad the usual english literati who usually spring to the defence of one of their own have not said much about this treatment meted out to a regional language author. where are the arundhati roys of the world when we need them?

1. Regional writers, by definition, are not known outside their region. It's hard to defend someone purely based on media reports, particularly when the English literati themselves are under siege by the chaddi brigade and regional writers often participate in that persecution.

2. Regional writers invariably and unfailingly look down on Indian writing in English, disdainfully viewing it and the writers as inauthentic and lacking roots, disparaging the commercial success as evidence of lack of literary merit. This is the only point on which regional writers on the extreme left as well as the extreme right agree upon.

there's an english translation of the book still accessible on kindle.

by Hellsangel Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:22 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30829733 wrote:Turkish daily Cumhuriyet and Turkish websites have published images of the Charlie Hebdo cartoon.

In Pakistan on Thursday, lawmakers unanimously approved a resolution condemning the publication of the images, state-run TV reported.

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