bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kinnera wrote:The moral superiority, the judgements, the assumptions, the gossips and the associated harassment and the support for such behavior....haven't we seen all that on these forums? Same kind of attitude is expressed by the rapist and his lawers. I am surprised that the very same ppl who exhibited all those traits are bewildered by that. Such is the world!

Hmm.. that is precisely what the handles Kinnera, SaaMiYaar, Propagandhi711 and HA routinely indulge in.

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

There are many problems with the film, beginning with its uncomfortable packaging that brings forth perceptions of a civilising mission. The documentary puts the Delhi gangrape victim constantly above the savage other, brutal Indian men, who are poor, don't know English and are definitely not 'people like us'. In an interview, Udwin does say the problem is not about a few rotten apples but the film pivots on a certain kind of spoilt fruit that is necessarily third world, not something that happens in the civilised 'first world'.

Racism and white saviour bias aside, the movie title also frames the victim in the same paradigm that apologists such as Asaram do--they erase women's identities and place them in connection to a male member or collective.

It is unacceptable for both us and Udwin to imagine rapists as inhabiting our homes, offices and schools--working alongside us, are our family and our friends. The possibility of a rapist not being a undereducated man from the rural hinterlands but the IMF chief or a senior editor is shut out from the debate.

Sexual assaults and violence is experienced by underprivileged communities with alarming regularity and hence, a discussion on Nirbhaya is incomplete without one on Khairlanji or the hundreds of hijras found murdered every year. Criticise Udwin, if you will, for yanking out the women's violence narrative out--she clearly hasn't met Dalit women or Hijras, who face violence for their gender, caste and sexuality.

But to muzzle a film because it upsets our comfort and honour is unacceptable. If, as a country, we want to really start a discussion on rape and sexual assault, we have to explore the culture we inhabit, the daily experiences of misogyny and the atmosphere of violence we live in. More importantly, we have to question our involvement and complicity in patriarchy. Without that, hollow bans will only worsen the world's image of India. The country's honour, as it were, will remain sullen.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kinnera wrote:The moral superiority, the judgements, the assumptions, the gossips and the associated harassment and the support for such behavior....haven't we seen all that on these forums? Same kind of attitude is expressed by the rapist and his lawers. I am surprised that the very same ppl who exhibited all those traits are bewildered by that. Such is the world!

Hmm.. that is precisely what the handles Kinnera, SaaMiYaar, Propagandhi711 and HA routinely indulge in.

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
What's atavistic is the judgment calls that ppl make on deciding for the women on who they need to interact with and who they shouldn't and if they went against their grain, feel entitled to character assassinate them and harass them. Same mentality as the rapist and his lawyers. No difference.

let's see if i understand this. so you're drawing an equivalence between a man who has an opinion on women egging on a crude poster who has made atrocious posts about women and his own repugnant behavior towards them, and rapist/murderers in the delhi bus case and their defense lawyers? did i get that right? if not that, what did you have in mind when you wrote the post above?

You got it right. Read my post again. You'll understand it better.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:
What's atavistic is the judgment calls that ppl make on deciding for the women on who they need to interact with and who they shouldn't and if they went against their grain, feel entitled to character assassinate them and harass them. Same mentality as the rapist and his lawyers. No difference.

let's see if i understand this. so you're drawing an equivalence between a man who has an opinion on women egging on a crude poster who has made atrocious posts about women and his own repugnant behavior towards them, and rapist/murderers in the delhi bus case and their defense lawyers? did i get that right? if not that, what did you have in mind when you wrote the post above?

You got it right. Read my post again. You'll understand it better.

i asked for an explanation only because i thought i misunderstood what you said. i thought i must have misunderstood since it sounds so unbelievably weird and warped. but it seems like i understood you perfectly. i don't need to re-read your post. thanks for confirming what i thought you said.

bw wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

there weren't any women featured who voiced such views. the parents and the wife of a rapist highlighted the hardships and the difficult lives they lead but no one said anything like setting a woman on fire if she goes out with a guy or express desire to use chloroform to subdue a woman etc.

am not sure what the purpose of the documentary was. to me, it was just a blow by blow account of one particularly horrific case and highlighted the cultural factors that lead to such things.

on another note, the 17 year old is set to be released in dec 2015.

confuzzled dude wrote:
I've watched the documentary. Nothing earth-shattering or shocking for those who were brought up in India. Not sure why chaddi government got its chaddies in a twist, may be they are trying to protect those chaddi defense lawyers. Both the mother of those two rapists and the wife of other rapist said their parties are innocent but have not shown any sympathy towards the girl that was raped and killed by their kin (may be those comments were edited out).

Hellsangel wrote:Meanwhile in Nagaland...

bw wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

there weren't any women featured who voiced such views. the parents and the wife of a rapist highlighted the hardships and the difficult lives they lead but no one said anything like setting a woman on fire if she goes out with a guy or express desire to use chloroform to subdue a woman etc.

am not sure what the purpose of the documentary was. to me, it was just a blow by blow account of one particularly horrific case and highlighted the cultural factors that lead to such things.

on another note, the 17 year old is set to be released in dec 2015.

swapna wrote:

bw wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

there weren't any women featured who voiced such views. the parents and the wife of a rapist highlighted the hardships and the difficult lives they lead but no one said anything like setting a woman on fire if she goes out with a guy or express desire to use chloroform to subdue a woman etc.

am not sure what the purpose of the documentary was. to me, it was just a blow by blow account of one particularly horrific case and highlighted the cultural factors that lead to such things.

on another note, the 17 year old is set to be released in dec 2015.

when the 17-year-old is released at the end of 2015, the men and women of delhi will castrate him, dismember him, and finally, kill him. the men who tortured and killed him will then go home and beat up their wives; they may even brag about it here at suCh.

swapna wrote:

bw wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

bw wrote:bbc4 aired the documentary earlier than planned. watched it. disturbing as expected.

Does this film include the interviews of Indian women who have similar views as those defense lawyers or the purpose of this documentary is to just underline the mindset of those criminals and their defense lawyers.

there weren't any women featured who voiced such views. the parents and the wife of a rapist highlighted the hardships and the difficult lives they lead but no one said anything like setting a woman on fire if she goes out with a guy or express desire to use chloroform to subdue a woman etc.

am not sure what the purpose of the documentary was. to me, it was just a blow by blow account of one particularly horrific case and highlighted the cultural factors that lead to such things.

on another note, the 17 year old is set to be released in dec 2015.

when the 17-year-old is released at the end of 2015, the men and women of delhi will castrate him, dismember him, and finally, kill him. the men who tortured and killed him will then go home and beat up their wives; they may even brag about it here at suCh.

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:I still don't know why this show should be banned. It does have a lot of good messages and lessons to learn. Disturbing, yes; but how else are they planning to change things. Just too bad that someone from uk had to come and do this. India is still not there where people can introspect in an honest manner. 

Hellsangel wrote:Sevaji, you have the panacea for all ills.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:I still don't know why this show should be banned. It does have a lot of good messages and lessons to learn. Disturbing, yes; but how else are they planning to change things. Just too bad that someone from uk had to come and do this. India is still not there where people can introspect in an honest manner. 

This movie has little to do with improving the situation for women or giving them equality with men in India. By getting emotional and shedding tears while watching a TV show (involving a very tragic incident) by the BBC, in which a killer of a woman even has the advice to women that they should not pose any resistance during attack by men, will not empower women and improve their situation or change the attitude of men towards women.

What really is needed for this, i.e. to impart the real sense of equality and power in women (at the same level as men), is to get rid of the current system of multiple gender-biased, archaic, religious / communal laws (which subdue women and give more power and privileges to men than women) and instead implement a progressive UCC (Uniform Civil Code) which ensures the same legal rights and equality for women (at the same level with men), no matter what the race, religion and caste.

Then only, with UCC in place, the campaigns and programs to educate people (young and old) and change their mindset on the equality of genders (male and female) will be effective and produce long lasting results.

Kinnera wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Beatrix Kiddo wrote:I still don't know why this show should be banned. It does have a lot of good messages and lessons to learn. Disturbing, yes; but how else are they planning to change things. Just too bad that someone from uk had to come and do this. India is still not there where people can introspect in an honest manner. 

This movie has little to do with improving the situation for women or giving them equality with men in India. By getting emotional and shedding tears while watching a TV show (involving a very tragic incident) by the BBC, in which a killer of a woman even has the advice to women that they should not pose any resistance during attack by men, will not empower women and improve their situation or change the attitude of men towards women.

What really is needed for this, i.e. to impart the real sense of equality and power in women (at the same level as men), is to get rid of the current system of multiple gender-biased, archaic, religious / communal laws (which subdue women and give more power and privileges to men than women) and instead implement a progressive UCC (Uniform Civil Code) which ensures the same legal rights and equality for women (at the same level with men), no matter what the race, religion and caste.

Then only, with UCC in place, the campaigns and programs to educate people (young and old) and change their mindset on the equality of genders (male and female) will be effective and produce long lasting results.

Seva ji, forget UCC. What needs to change is the mentality of most indians. This documentary served as a mirror for indians to reflect upon themselves, the kind of society they are living in. It sure is stirring them up and that's going to be a catalyst for change. It's seems hard and not so nice, but it's all good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/09/world/in-neighborhood-of-indian-rapists-smoldering-anger-and-code-of-silence.html wrote:“People like this should be killed immediately,” said Pooja Gupta, 20, her expression stony. “They should leave them in a public place and let the public sort it out. The way they did in Nagaland,” she added, referring to last week’s fatal beating of an accused rapist in northeast India. “They should hang them, but not in jail. They should take them on a parade through the streets, and then hang them.”

As for the documentary, which will premiere in New York on Monday, Ms. Gupta, who is in her third year of university, said she had no interest in seeing it. “He has not been hanged, and he is free to air his views,” she said. “He is not worthy of being spoken to.”

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i have a severe migraine. i am going to treat it with two strong 500 mg tablets of UCC, seva's wonder medicine.

bw wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i have a severe migraine. i am going to treat it with two strong 500 mg tablets of UCC, seva's wonder medicine.

seva is right - UCC always works for me,  their blue mountain blend, in particular.