Re: The main differences between Kuchipudi and Bharatanatyam.......

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:40 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Gandharvas and Apsaras are not necessarily from BIMARU India.

It is possible that the hauling and moaning aspects of Hindustani singing is original to the BIMARU region (just like the Koran type recital of mantras by NI priests). LOL.
Most of the professionally engaged entertainers (musicians and dancers) in north India originally belonged to the Hindu faith and they changed their religion only in the last few centuries when it became financially more attractive for them to entertain the new (Mughal) kings and nawabs and also be a part of their culture and faith. Even the so called Sufi music seems to have a considerable influence on it from the original Hindu singing and thought ... just analyze its spiritual content to notice the similarities with Hinduism.

I posted similar views on the Sufi tradition on "IndoLink" some 10 years ago. Some pieceful guys posting on the board got upset.....

Historians neglected the cultural link between Iran and India. Hopefully, someone will bring this out.

Just perhaps a matter of habit to get upset.

by southindian Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:18 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Gandharvas and Apsaras are not necessarily from BIMARU India.

It is possible that the hauling and moaning aspects of Hindustani singing is original to the BIMARU region (just like the Koran type recital of mantras by NI priests). LOL.
Most of the professionally engaged entertainers (musicians and dancers) in north India originally belonged to the Hindu faith and they changed their religion only in the last few centuries when it became financially more attractive for them to entertain the new (Mughal) kings and nawabs and also be a part of their culture and faith. Even the so called Sufi music seems to have a considerable influence on it from the original Hindu singing and thought ... just analyze its spiritual content to notice the similarities with Hinduism.

I posted similar views on the Sufi tradition on "IndoLink" some 10 years ago. Some pieceful guys posting on the board got upset.....

Historians neglected the cultural link between Iran and India. Hopefully, someone will bring this out.

I'm proud that Southindians were the first to come through Iran (then Persia), when Southindians took the trek starting from Africa. Northindians followed from Persia at later time. Some call them Aryans.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:08 pm

southindian wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Gandharvas and Apsaras are not necessarily from BIMARU India.

It is possible that the hauling and moaning aspects of Hindustani singing is original to the BIMARU region (just like the Koran type recital of mantras by NI priests). LOL.
Most of the professionally engaged entertainers (musicians and dancers) in north India originally belonged to the Hindu faith and they changed their religion only in the last few centuries when it became financially more attractive for them to entertain the new (Mughal) kings and nawabs and also be a part of their culture and faith. Even the so called Sufi music seems to have a considerable influence on it from the original Hindu singing and thought ... just analyze its spiritual content to notice the similarities with Hinduism.

I posted similar views on the Sufi tradition on "IndoLink" some 10 years ago. Some pieceful guys posting on the board got upset.....

Historians neglected the cultural link between Iran and India. Hopefully, someone will bring this out.
I'm proud that Southindians were the first to come through Iran (then Persia), when Southindians took the trek starting from Africa. Northindians followed from Persia at later time. Some call them Aryans.

You mean......, South Indians were originally BIMARUish? You may be right! These days, just as North Indians are becoming Sikular bhaiyyas, South Indians are becoming DKheads.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:26 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
southindian wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Gandharvas and Apsaras are not necessarily from BIMARU India.

It is possible that the hauling and moaning aspects of Hindustani singing is original to the BIMARU region (just like the Koran type recital of mantras by NI priests). LOL.
Most of the professionally engaged entertainers (musicians and dancers) in north India originally belonged to the Hindu faith and they changed their religion only in the last few centuries when it became financially more attractive for them to entertain the new (Mughal) kings and nawabs and also be a part of their culture and faith. Even the so called Sufi music seems to have a considerable influence on it from the original Hindu singing and thought ... just analyze its spiritual content to notice the similarities with Hinduism.

I posted similar views on the Sufi tradition on "IndoLink" some 10 years ago. Some pieceful guys posting on the board got upset.....

Historians neglected the cultural link between Iran and India. Hopefully, someone will bring this out.
I'm proud that Southindians were the first to come through Iran (then Persia), when Southindians took the trek starting from Africa. Northindians followed from Persia at later time. Some call them Aryans.
You mean......, South Indians were originally BIMARUish? You may be right! These days, just as North Indians are becoming Sikular bhaiyyas, South Indians are becoming DKheads.

The racist migration idea / theory on human populations, indicated also by southindian in the above, that every dark-complexioned person today had his / her ancestors originating in Africa long ago and every fair-complexioned person today had his / her ancestors originating in Europe / Iran is totally discredited now and it lacks any scientific basis,
https://such.forumotion.com/t19332-genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india-includes-info-about-the-out-of-africa-theory

by southindian Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:46 pm

ALL humans came from Africa. ALL of them.

The skin of ones going North (from Africa) paled over thousands of years. The harsh cold Europe weather made sure stronger, bigger humans survive, thus giving lager body frame to European whites.

There's a PBS program that showed genetic DNA mapping of humans and seeing similarities of DNA among people living in migration paths. The program even found a person in Central Asia whose DNA maps with most in Asia and Europe. An interesting program everyone should watch.

Humans migrating to India (southindians) and beyond walked along coastal lands from Africa to reach India and settled along the coast (Maha, Goa, Karnataka, TN, Kerela, AP). Random DNA samples of people living for generations in Coastal Indian regions proved that migration route.

by southindian Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:51 pm

This should help. Play the video from below link.

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

by bw Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:42 pm

i used to watch kuchipudi performances on doordarshan - mainly for the gimmicks like standing on the rim of a brass plate, dancing with a pot balanced on the head etc.

by swapna Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:33 pm

bw wrote:i used to watch kuchipudi performances on doordarshan - mainly for the gimmicks like standing on the rim of a brass plate, dancing with a pot balanced on the head etc.

did you like those gimmicks? do you not like them anymore? what changed?

by southindian Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:02 pm

Thomas,

Maybe unlike the old loser correcting grammer, she has a life and may have more important things to do.

by bw Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:45 pm

swapna wrote:
bw wrote:i used to watch kuchipudi performances on doordarshan - mainly for the gimmicks like standing on the rim of a brass plate, dancing with a pot balanced on the head etc.

did you like those gimmicks? do you not like them anymore? what changed?

this was when i was around 10 or so and yes, it was fascinating and i used wait with bated breath to see if they lost heir balance (some of them did). 'nadana arangam' on doordarshan featured BN, kuchupidi etc. kuchupidi that had these features was the only one i watched. i felt they looked like penguins when waddling around standing on those plates.

well, i have no opinion on it now. what changed? guess i grew up.

by pravalika nanda Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:34 pm

bw wrote:
swapna wrote:
bw wrote:i used to watch kuchipudi performances on doordarshan - mainly for the gimmicks like standing on the rim of a brass plate, dancing with a pot balanced on the head etc.

did you like those gimmicks? do you not like them anymore? what changed?

this was when i was around 10 or so and yes, it was fascinating and i used wait with bated breath to see if they lost heir balance (some of them did). 'nadana arangam' on doordarshan featured BN, kuchupidi etc. kuchupidi that had these features was the only one i watched. i felt they looked like penguins when waddling around standing on those plates.

well, i have no opinion on it now. what changed? guess i grew up.

wow, tamils have zero respect for other indian arts.

it's called the tarangam and usually is the penultimate piece in a rangapravaesam (the kuchipudi dance debut). in the tarangam, the dancer dances on the plate while holding a pot of water on their head. it was to signify that even when one is burdened by earthly troubles, one should have the clarity to focus on their goals through meditation. hundreds of girls risk their dance debut by performing this sometimes optional piece exposing themselves to ridicule if they should fail. if they fail, they do not graduate. but because they want to show their commitment all these little girls go train for it even it means weeks of bleeding during practice untiel the soles of their feet adjust to the rim of the plate and they learn to balance the pot on their heads. if they succeed they become natya-siddhis or natya-tilakams. it was a later addition to kuchipudi which not all kuchipudi schools espouse. for instance I don't think I've seen vempati china satyam's people do this, they can't take a chance, they're too big to fail. nevertheless, all of kuchipudi has always been very dynamic in its exploration of music, subject matter and the steps etc.

if a tamil ever got on a brass plate with a pot of water on her head, it would be like tamil nadu putting a man on the moon. for us little people it is a "gimmick."

but tamils do appreciate other things in life: british humor, pale ales, quinoa, shrimp cocktails, concerts in europe, jimi Hendrix, opera etc.

by pravalika nanda Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:37 pm

actually it's better this way, we don't want tamils anywhere near kuchipudi. we don't want them "culturing" it up.

by bw Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:54 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:actually it's better this way, we don't want tamils anywhere near kuchipudi. we don't want them "culturing" it up.

c'mon now, the only dance i watched was kuchipudi plate&pot session - i didn't even bother with BN.

hope i am still included in the grand exodus.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:55 pm

april is persecution complex month for PN. it's a new month tomorrow.

by pravalika nanda Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:april is persecution complex month for PN. it's a new month tomorrow.

I just taught you what a tarangam is. say "thank you!"

by pravalika nanda Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:05 pm

bw wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:actually it's better this way, we don't want tamils anywhere near kuchipudi. we don't want them "culturing" it up.

c'mon now, the only dance i watched was kuchipudi plate&pot session - i didn't even bother with BN.

hope i am still included in the grand exodus.

well, you're under review. you gotta show me you're learning. it doesn't sound nice when you call it a "plate and pot session" like they ate and this stimulated their colon and they then took a dump. it's the tarangam, the jeevitha tarangam. serious stuff, you know!

by bw Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:23 pm

pravalika nanda wrote:
bw wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:actually it's better this way, we don't want tamils anywhere near kuchipudi. we don't want them "culturing" it up.

c'mon now, the only dance i watched was kuchipudi plate&pot session - i didn't even bother with BN.

hope i am still included in the grand exodus.
well, you're under review. you gotta show me you're learning. it doesn't sound nice when you call it a "plate and pot session" like they ate and this stimulated their colon and they then took a dump. it's the tarangam, the jeevitha tarangam. serious stuff, you know!

alright, alright. i was fascinated by the 'tarangam' routine. BN, with its over 24, narcissistic, geisha mamis with raccoon eyes, has nothing, i repeat, nothing, remotely exciting and at the same time very profound like this. all they do is pine for some guy and gesticulate in multitude ways to convey that.

by pravalika nanda Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:46 pm

bw wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:
bw wrote:
pravalika nanda wrote:actually it's better this way, we don't want tamils anywhere near kuchipudi. we don't want them "culturing" it up.

c'mon now, the only dance i watched was kuchipudi plate&pot session - i didn't even bother with BN.

hope i am still included in the grand exodus.
well, you're under review. you gotta show me you're learning. it doesn't sound nice when you call it a "plate and pot session" like they ate and this stimulated their colon and they then took a dump. it's the tarangam, the jeevitha tarangam. serious stuff, you know!

alright, alright. i was fascinated by the 'tarangam' routine. BN, with its over 24, narcissistic, geisha mamis with raccoon eyes, has nothing, i repeat, nothing, remotely exciting and at the same time very profound like this. all they do is pine for some guy and gesticulate in multitude ways to convey that.

oh, you're the sweetest, after I have kids, i'll let my kids join your kids on play dates. good night, i'm sleepy.

by Seva Lamberdar Fri May 01, 2015 8:31 am

southindian wrote:ALL humans came from Africa. ALL of them.

The skin of ones going North (from Africa) paled over thousands of years. The harsh cold Europe weather made sure stronger, bigger humans survive, thus giving lager body frame to European whites.

There's a PBS program that showed genetic DNA mapping of humans and seeing similarities of DNA among people living in migration paths. The program even found a person in Central Asia whose DNA maps with most in Asia and Europe. An interesting program everyone should watch.

Humans migrating to India (southindians) and beyond walked along coastal lands from Africa to reach India and settled along the coast (Maha, Goa, Karnataka, TN, Kerela, AP). Random DNA samples of people living for generations in Coastal Indian regions proved that migration route.

You need to go through the link I gave earlier (https://such.forumotion.com/t19332-genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india-includes-info-about-the-out-of-africa-theory) to understand the limitations in the Out of Africa model, which is the basis for your statement and the PBS show (you cited later). As indicated in the essay, the Out of Africa model is based on a very flimsy evidence and all its later deductions are contrived to justify / support the idea that humans originated in Africa and spread to other places. It's almost like saying that God put Adam and Eve first in Africa and then from there (Africa) their offspring spread to other places (while even taking different routes).

by Seva Lamberdar Sun May 03, 2015 3:34 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
southindian wrote:ALL humans came from Africa. ALL of them.

The skin of ones going North (from Africa) paled over thousands of years. The harsh cold Europe weather made sure stronger, bigger humans survive, thus giving lager body frame to European whites.

There's a PBS program that showed genetic DNA mapping of humans and seeing similarities of DNA among people living in migration paths. The program even found a person in Central Asia whose DNA maps with most in Asia and Europe. An interesting program everyone should watch.

Humans migrating to India (southindians) and beyond walked along coastal lands from Africa to reach India and settled along the coast (Maha, Goa, Karnataka, TN, Kerela, AP). Random DNA samples of people living for generations in Coastal Indian regions proved that migration route.
You need to go through the link I gave earlier (https://such.forumotion.com/t19332-genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india-includes-info-about-the-out-of-africa-theory) to understand the limitations in the Out of Africa model, which is the basis for your statement and the PBS show (you cited later). As indicated in the essay, the Out of Africa model is based on a very flimsy evidence and all its later deductions are contrived to justify / support the idea that humans originated in Africa and spread to other places. It's almost like saying that God put Adam and Eve first in Africa and then from there (Africa) their offspring spread to other places (while even taking different routes).

I wonder if "southindian" changed his mind or he still believes for sure (based on genetic testing) that "ALL humans came from Africa. ALL of them."

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