Ragini & Nandini Shankar

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:28 am

smt n.rajam's granddaughters. the torch has been passed to the new generation. very gratifying. thanks for posting.

by swapna Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:04 am

flashy. laden with gimmicks and gratuitous crescendos. northindian. disappointing. sorry.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:32 am

the venue and the props on stage were needlessly flashy, but i found nothing flashy, gimmicky, or gratuitous, about the music itself. one might try listening to it without watching the video. it was certainly energetic and youthful and not as contemplative as grandma n.rajam who incidentally was present among the audience. the other lady the camera was panning on from time to time was their mother sangeetha shankar.

here is their guru n.rajam, the senior most artiste from the parampara:

i always find it interesting to watch an indian classical musician's evolution from technical virtuoso when s/he is young, to one with a deeper contemplative approach in later years. an example that unfolded right in front of our eyes is the late mandolin srinivas.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:44 am

swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.

by swapna Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:58 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.

not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.

by swapna Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:13 am

swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.
not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.

btw, it was not only the music that seemed northindian.

by southindian Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:17 am

swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.
not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.

Aaha Thomas. So you were just guessing that composition was northindian? ...and needed to be looked down. Smile

No one here is surprised anymore, how you make a complete fool of yourself.

by southindian Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:19 am

swapna wrote:
swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.
not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.
btw, it was not only the music that seemed northindian.

LOL. As if you know everything southindian...

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:37 am

the violin is not a common instrument in HCM unlike CM where it is ubiquitous. to my knowledge there are only two prominent musicians who have made a career out of playing violin in HCM - n.rajam and v.g.jog. i prefer n.rajam because she plays in the style known as gayaki ang, which means in the tradition of vocal music. this is evident from the near continuous bowing technique n.rajam employs. v.g.jog, another competent violinist plays a very staccato style of violin which i find less appealing. indian music is after all essentially a vocal tradition.

i believe n.rajam's gayaki ang is influenced very much by her childhood training in carnatic music, before she transitioned fully into HCM. she brought technical elements in from CM which she has retained even after she completed the stylistic transition to HCM.

nandini and ragini have absorbed the two essential hallmarks of HCM violin from their grandmother -- a perfect shruthi (tonal purity) and her peerless bowing technique. emotional depth will, as always, come as they grow older. this is an evolution i have seen time and time again. i always prefer to listen to an indian classical musician (HCM or CM) older than 40.

by swapna Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:46 am

southindian wrote:
swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.
not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.
Aaha Thomas. So you were just guessing that composition was northindian? ...and needed to be looked down.

No one here is surprised anymore, how you make a complete fool of yourself.

I described clearly and concisely my feelings about that performance. I'm sorry that my description hurt your feelings.

if you continue to feel hurt after ten hours, lower yourself slowly, arse first, onto a sharp object, and soon, you'll forget all about the pain you experienced in this thread.

by southindian Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:22 pm

swapna wrote:
southindian wrote:
swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
swapna wrote:northindian.

that's obvious isn't it? it is hindustani music after all.
not to me; I'm untrained, and can't go by the names of compositions or styles.
Aaha Thomas. So you were just guessing that composition was northindian? ...and needed to be looked down.

No one here is surprised anymore, how you make a complete fool of yourself.
I described clearly and concisely my feelings about that performance. I'm sorry that my description hurt your feelings.

if you continue to feel hurt after ten hours, lower yourself slowly, arse first, onto a sharp object, and soon, you'll forget all about the pain you experienced in this thread.

Thanks Thomas,

Your technique above looks tried and tested. Did you feel better after above steps?

Please share your experience with this audience.

by swapna Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the violin is not a common instrument in HCM unlike CM where it is ubiquitous. to my knowledge there are only two prominernt musicians who have made a career out of playing violin in HCM - n.rajam and v.g.jog. i prefer n.rajam because she plays in the style known as gayaki ang, which means in the tradition of vocal music. this is evident from the near continuous bowing technique n.rajam employs. v.g.jog, another competent violinist plays a very staccato style of violin which i find less appealing. indian music is after all essentially a vocal tradition.

i believe n.rajam's gayaki ang is influenced very much by her childhood training in carnatic music, before she transitioned fully into HCM. she brought technical elements in from CM which she has retained even after she completed the stylistic transition to HCM.

nandini and ragini have absorbed the two essential hallmarks of HCM violin from their grandmother -- a perfect shruthi (tonal purity) and her peerless bowing technique. emotional depth will, as always, come as they grow older. this is an evolution i have seen time and time again. i always prefer to listen to an indian classical musician (HCM or CM) older than 40.

thank you for that information. I am quite aware of what you say in your first sentence. I myself love carnatic musicians' masterful use of the violin in carnatic music, and especially their recognition of how well-suited the instrument is in conveying the emotions of carnatic compositions.

in this post, you have confirmed, in technical terms, what I instinctively felt about ragini's and nandini's performance: that it is a fusion of carnatic and northindian music - see the bold text above - styles, instruments, and cultural mores.

your post reaffirms my belief in my instincts.

for me to appreciate fusion, the resulting music has to be unique and special. I didn't think this was. finally, "going over," in my mind, has no merit by itself.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:34 pm

swapna wrote:
in this post, you have confirmed, in technical terms, what I instinctively felt about ragini's and nandini's performance: that it is a fusion of carnatic and northindian music - see the bold text above - styles, instruments, and cultural mores.

i disagree with your statement that they play fusion music. here is a more relaxed demonstration of the family's style where the young women, perhaps a decade younger, are playing in an accompanying role alongside the grandmother. listen to this. fast forward the first five or so minutes where the idiotic interviewer is asking her some inane questions.

do you still think this is fusion music? i only said she brought technical elements, not stylistic and aesthetic elements from carnatic music. you said something about uniqueness. what n.rajam has shaped in HCM is indeed unique. these women are in their early to mid twenties. from what i've heard over the years, they are destined for greatness. they are not yet the fully formed article, but they have all the necessary elements.

to contrast what she does with CM, listen to n.rajam's brother prof t n krishnan. if you listen carefully you'll be able to recognize the resemblance -- the light, graceful, and delicate bowing technique, but the aesthetic is completely different.

her bowing technique is something her family bequeathed to her, but her musical aesthetics developed under the tutelage of pt. omkarnath thakur.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:30 pm

when i mentioned hindustani violinistsi had forgotten kala ramnath, also from the same family (she is niece to both n.rajam and t.n.k; in fact she learned initially from rajam but has evolved her own style). here is a sample:

https://youtu.be/Y2CAq9ZO5Go

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:43 pm

a fun and interesting conversation:

https://youtu.be/l1SoZSosu6Y

by southindian Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:29 am

swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the violin is not a common instrument in HCM unlike CM where it is ubiquitous. to my knowledge there are only two prominernt musicians who have made a career out of playing violin in HCM - n.rajam and v.g.jog. i prefer n.rajam because she plays in the style known as gayaki ang, which means in the tradition of vocal music. this is evident from the near continuous bowing technique n.rajam employs. v.g.jog, another competent violinist plays a very staccato style of violin which i find less appealing. indian music is after all essentially a vocal tradition.

i believe n.rajam's gayaki ang is influenced very much by her childhood training in carnatic music, before she transitioned fully into HCM. she brought technical elements in from CM which she has retained even after she completed the stylistic transition to HCM.

nandini and ragini have absorbed the two essential hallmarks of HCM violin from their grandmother -- a perfect shruthi (tonal purity) and her peerless bowing technique. emotional depth will, as always, come as they grow older. this is an evolution i have seen time and time again. i always prefer to listen to an indian classical musician (HCM or CM) older than 40.
thank you for that information. I am quite aware of what you say in your first sentence. I myself love carnatic musicians' masterful use of the violin in carnatic music, and especially their recognition of how well-suited the instrument is in conveying the emotions of carnatic compositions.

in this post, you have confirmed, in technical terms, what I instinctively felt about ragini's and nandini's performance: that it is a fusion of carnatic and northindian music - see the bold text above - styles, instruments, and cultural mores.

your post reaffirms my belief in my instincts.

for me to appreciate fusion, the resulting music has to be unique and special. I didn't think this was. finally, "going over," in my mind, has no merit by itself.

Thomas,

You never give up on your idiocy or concede after initial stupid response. Do you?

You convince yourself and re-convince yourself that that you are right. This crowd has followed this stupidity of yours for years now. No surprises. Smile

by Propagandhi711 Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:43 am

southindian wrote:
swapna wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the violin is not a common instrument in HCM unlike CM where it is ubiquitous. to my knowledge there are only two prominernt musicians who have made a career out of playing violin in HCM - n.rajam and v.g.jog. i prefer n.rajam because she plays in the style known as gayaki ang, which means in the tradition of vocal music. this is evident from the near continuous bowing technique n.rajam employs. v.g.jog, another competent violinist plays a very staccato style of violin which i find less appealing. indian music is after all essentially a vocal tradition.

i believe n.rajam's gayaki ang is influenced very much by her childhood training in carnatic music, before she transitioned fully into HCM. she brought technical elements in from CM which she has retained even after she completed the stylistic transition to HCM.

nandini and ragini have absorbed the two essential hallmarks of HCM violin from their grandmother -- a perfect shruthi (tonal purity) and her peerless bowing technique. emotional depth will, as always, come as they grow older. this is an evolution i have seen time and time again. i always prefer to listen to an indian classical musician (HCM or CM) older than 40.
thank you for that information. I am quite aware of what you say in your first sentence. I myself love carnatic musicians' masterful use of the violin in carnatic music, and especially their recognition of how well-suited the instrument is in conveying the emotions of carnatic compositions.

in this post, you have confirmed, in technical terms, what I instinctively felt about ragini's and nandini's performance: that it is a fusion of carnatic and northindian music - see the bold text above - styles, instruments, and cultural mores.

your post reaffirms my belief in my instincts.

for me to appreciate fusion, the resulting music has to be unique and special. I didn't think this was. finally, "going over," in my mind, has no merit by itself.
Thomas,

You never give up on your idiocy or concede after initial stupid response. Do you?

You convince yourself and re-convince yourself that that you are right. This crowd has followed this stupidity of yours for years now. No surprises.

one of the perks of growing into a crotchety old fuck is to never admit you're wrong. that and camping on econojunners website to watch disgruntled econo homos give each other reacharounds while perpetuating racial stereotypes.

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