It is hard not to try to see in the politics of another country a version of one’s own. To match Democrat in America with Labour in England, or, say, Congress in India; to find an easy affinity between Republican and Tory, and now, perhaps, the Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., under Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Pleasing as these symmetries are, and flat as the world may seem, they are false equivalencies. In fact, every society has a unique history of power, of which its politics are an expression.

In India, the Congress Party was liberal, left-leaning and secular; but it was also the party of the colonized elite. That meant that practically everyone who was rich, and educated, and grew up speaking English, was also invariably a supporter of Congress.

I say this because, if for a moment we suspend our own political affiliations, and look at the forces of left and right simply in terms of the one as representing class movement and change, and the other as defending the existing order, it would have to be said that the Congress Party behaved much more like an old-fashioned conservative party — clubbish and aloof — than anything we can expect from the left. This was the party ousted from power last year by the election of Mr. Modi; and yes, if social revolutions at the ballot boxes of big democracies excite you, it was thrilling.

In other places, education would have helped close the gap; it would have helped the country make a whole of the social change it was witnessing. No society is so equitable that men as economically far apart as Bill Clinton and George W. Bush — or as Ed Miliband and David Cameron, for that matter — would have attended the same schools. But, in England and America, there is Oxford and Yale to level the field, to give both men the means to speak to each other.

This is not true of India. In India, one class has had access to the best private schools and foreign universities, where all the instruction is in English; the other has had to make do with the state schools and universities Indian socialism bequeathed them. The two classes almost never meet; they don’t even speak the same language. It has left India divided between an isolated superelite (and if you’re an Indian reading this, you’re probably part of it!) and an emerging middle class that may well lack the intellectual tools needed to channel its vitality.

In another society, with the benefit of a real education, Mr. Modi might have been something more than he was. Then it would be possible to imagine a place with real political differences, and not one in which left and right were divided along the blade of a knife by differences in class, language and education. But just as that other society does not yet exist, neither does that other Modi. Indians will have to make do with the Modi they have; and, as things stand, perhaps the cynics are right: Perhaps this great hope of Indian democracy, with his limited reading and education, is not equal to the enormous task before him.

Kris wrote:
>>>>Taseer gets it right in the first paragraph above, not so much in the second one. I don't mean that the political establishment is made up of Einsteins. It is that that is not a sine qua non at this stage of the game. It would be adequate to not be stupid, given the interest India evokes in global commerce. Yes, if things like this beef obsession or gunning for minorities derails economic development, that would be stealing defeat from the jaws of victory, but it is too early to tell if that kind of a blow up is going to happen or if this is the what the media would like to happen.[/size]
[size=16]I also disagree on the point about foreign universities and English alone equipping the rulers with the magic touch. This is what gave us the gift of fabian socialism, the gift that has kept on giving.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:
>>>>Taseer gets it right in the first paragraph above, not so much in the second one. I don't mean that the political establishment is made up of Einsteins. It is that that is not a sine qua non at this stage of the game. It would be adequate to not be stupid, given the interest India evokes in global commerce. Yes, if things like this beef obsession or gunning for minorities derails economic development, that would be stealing defeat from the jaws of victory, but it is too early to tell if that kind of a blow up is going to happen or if this is the what the media would like to happen.[/size]
[size=16]I also disagree on the point about foreign universities and English alone equipping the rulers with the magic touch. This is what gave us the gift of fabian socialism, the gift that has kept on giving.

He is right about colonized elite i.e. Mani Aiyer types and his other point was about lack of awareness (i.e. quoting the bible) not so much about fluency in English which I think was reasonable criticism.

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:
>>>>Taseer gets it right in the first paragraph above, not so much in the second one. I don't mean that the political establishment is made up of Einsteins. It is that that is not a sine qua non at this stage of the game. It would be adequate to not be stupid, given the interest India evokes in global commerce. Yes, if things like this beef obsession or gunning for minorities derails economic development, that would be stealing defeat from the jaws of victory, but it is too early to tell if that kind of a blow up is going to happen or if this is the what the media would like to happen.[/size]
I also disagree on the point about foreign universities and English alone equipping the rulers with the magic touch. This is what gave us the gift of fabian socialism, the gift that has kept on giving.

He is right about colonized elite i.e. Mani Aiyer types and his other point was about lack of awareness (i.e. quoting the bible) not so much about fluency in English which I think was reasonable criticism.

>>>Much as I like Taseer, from what I have read by him, he himself may be a victim of certain west-centric biases. I guess it is a question of degree. Modi's attributing some quote to a wrong source may be an issue in academia, but hardly something that would render his world views as lesser than that of other leaders. Joe Biden once repeated a speech by Britain's Neil Kinnock almost verbatim. It doesn't mean he doesn't have to say anything worth listening to just on that basis.the 

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Indian society is divided into two: haves and have nots - like in most societies.

The only difference is in India once the have-nots make it they like to forget their background and even thinking about it is haram.

I have heard almost everyone in my (large) circle of family friends who have not gone in a bus or shopped in street corner shops for years. Worse is the reasons they give and their justification.  

OTOH, the have-nots in my crowd just want to just "escape" from their wretched world .   And, everything operates with these objectives.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Indian society is divided into two: haves and have nots - like in most societies.

The only difference is in India once the have-nots make it they like to forget their background and even thinking about it is haram.

I have heard almost everyone in my (large) circle of family friends who have not gone in a bus or shopped in street corner shops for years. Worse is the reasons they give and their justification.  

OTOH, the have-nots in my crowd just want to just "escape" from their wretched world .   And, everything operates with these objectives.

Well, you and I ran to this country to escape from that very wretched world, what are you whining about?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Indian society is divided into two: haves and have nots - like in most societies.

The only difference is in India once the have-nots make it they like to forget their background and even thinking about it is haram.

I have heard almost everyone in my (large) circle of family friends who have not gone in a bus or shopped in street corner shops for years. Worse is the reasons they give and their justification.  

OTOH, the have-nots in my crowd just want to just "escape" from their wretched world .   And, everything operates with these objectives.

Well, you and I ran to this country to escape from that very wretched world, what are you whining about?

Spoken like a true FoB. Not really... I stayed back in this country for different reasons than you - perhaps - did.

Not all coffees are same, although they might appear alike.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Indian society is divided into two: haves and have nots - like in most societies.

The only difference is in India once the have-nots make it they like to forget their background and even thinking about it is haram.

I have heard almost everyone in my (large) circle of family friends who have not gone in a bus or shopped in street corner shops for years. Worse is the reasons they give and their justification.  

OTOH, the have-nots in my crowd just want to just "escape" from their wretched world .   And, everything operates with these objectives.

Well, you and I ran to this country to escape from that very wretched world, what are you whining about?

Spoken like a true FoB. Not really... I stayed back in this country for different reasons than you - perhaps - did.

Not all coffees are same, although they might appear alike.

Grow a pair a and say like it is

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Indian society is divided into two: haves and have nots - like in most societies.

The only difference is in India once the have-nots make it they like to forget their background and even thinking about it is haram.

I have heard almost everyone in my (large) circle of family friends who have not gone in a bus or shopped in street corner shops for years. Worse is the reasons they give and their justification.  

OTOH, the have-nots in my crowd just want to just "escape" from their wretched world .   And, everything operates with these objectives.

Well, you and I ran to this country to escape from that very wretched world, what are you whining about?

Spoken like a true FoB. Not really... I stayed back in this country for different reasons than you - perhaps - did.

Not all coffees are same, although they might appear alike.

Grow a pair a and say like it is

I dont need to grow anymore...they are all fully grown already for a long time. So why you stayed in this country is to live a "materialistic" life, whereas i stayed in this country so that India can develop fast and unhindered - that is, it is for the "love of India"

truthbetold wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:
Well, you and I ran to this country to escape from that very wretched world, what are you whining about?

Spoken like a true FoB. Not really... I stayed back in this country for different reasons than you - perhaps - did.

Not all coffees are same, although they might appear alike.

Grow a pair a and say like it is

I dont need to grow anymore...they are all fully grown already for a long time. So why you stayed in this country is to live a "materialistic" life, whereas i stayed in this country so that India can develop fast and unhindered - that is, it is for the "love of India"

I think uppili is talking about Iron leg theory.

truthbetold wrote:CD

Modi is brighter than Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and sonia gandhi (who ran the country during MMS govt.).  What India needs is a leader who can get govt and license raj out of people's way. Rest is upto people.

confuzzled dude wrote:

truthbetold wrote:CD

Modi is brighter than Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and sonia gandhi (who ran the country during MMS govt.).  What India needs is a leader who can get govt and license raj out of people's way. Rest is upto people.

I don't think that single point agenda is cure for all