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Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
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Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
This is getting curiouser and curiouser...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/world/asia/pakistan-says-nato-helicopters-kill-dozens-of-soldiers.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/world/asia/pakistan-says-nato-helicopters-kill-dozens-of-soldiers.html
charvaka- Posts : 4347
Join date : 2011-04-28
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
What could be behind this event?
Is it an intentional US strike? Based on pros and cons, that seems like a very small probability.
Is it a unintentional strike? That is the official story. Looks like the highest probability.
Is it a Pak conspiracy to provoke US attack and to use that as an event to force US CIA drones out of Pak. Kayani seems to be quite upset with diplomatic messages sent to US after Osama killing. It is possible that ISI may have created a situation provoking NATO action and put its own forces in firing line. After the fact, Pak has local sympathy to challenge US. This is a far fetched story but only in Pakistan it could happen. I give it a low double digit possibility.
Only way for US to get out is to (a) Shut CIA drone base off or (b) Pay off Pak army in a huge way to continue the presence. Bad options for US.
One should always be suspicious of Kayani's motives for longer term. Is he building a case for Army take over or installation of chamcha govt.
Is it an intentional US strike? Based on pros and cons, that seems like a very small probability.
Is it a unintentional strike? That is the official story. Looks like the highest probability.
Is it a Pak conspiracy to provoke US attack and to use that as an event to force US CIA drones out of Pak. Kayani seems to be quite upset with diplomatic messages sent to US after Osama killing. It is possible that ISI may have created a situation provoking NATO action and put its own forces in firing line. After the fact, Pak has local sympathy to challenge US. This is a far fetched story but only in Pakistan it could happen. I give it a low double digit possibility.
Only way for US to get out is to (a) Shut CIA drone base off or (b) Pay off Pak army in a huge way to continue the presence. Bad options for US.
One should always be suspicious of Kayani's motives for longer term. Is he building a case for Army take over or installation of chamcha govt.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
Things are heating up. I don't think more US money will put Humpty Dumpty back together again. My guess is that this is one of those things that eventually had to happen -- like the Hindi song goes, "yeh to hona hi tha." I wonder how long the Pakis will keep the supply lines closed. The drone base is probably not a big deal, because they can house drones in Afghanistan.
charvaka- Posts : 4347
Join date : 2011-04-28
Location : Berkeley, CA
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
US friends turning into foes isn't uncommon, going by the history. Saddam, osama, taliban, khomeni, etc were all US' friends at one time.
Guest- Guest
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
truthbetold wrote:What could be behind this event?
Is it an intentional US strike? Based on pros and cons, that seems like a very small probability.
Is it a unintentional strike? That is the official story. Looks like the highest probability.
Is it a Pak conspiracy to provoke US attack and to use that as an event to force US CIA drones out of Pak. Kayani seems to be quite upset with diplomatic messages sent to US after Osama killing. It is possible that ISI may have created a situation provoking NATO action and put its own forces in firing line. After the fact, Pak has local sympathy to challenge US. This is a far fetched story but only in Pakistan it could happen. I give it a low double digit possibility.
Only way for US to get out is to (a) Shut CIA drone base off or (b) Pay off Pak army in a huge way to continue the presence. Bad options for US.
One should always be suspicious of Kayani's motives for longer term. Is he building a case for Army take over or installation of chamcha govt.
>>>> What you are seeing is due to the perennial problem with Pakistan. You don't know whether you are dealing with a friend or a foe, due to the internal fights within the power structure. I am sure the air strike were called in due to the fire from the pakistani side and it may well have been the pak army (given the ISI's inclinations). The after-the-fact doings by the US in the form of condolences and promised investigations are necessary to keep Pakistan on board. It is a case of 'keeping your enemies closer'. This is a game the US has to play until it gets out of afghanistan. That of course will lead to a vacuum that Pakistan would be only too happy to fill, which would be bad news all the way around.
Kris- Posts : 5461
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
This cannot be unintentional....not at this large scale.
US does not indulge in such a large operation, without analyzing the consequences and taking alternate plans. The US already must have expected the worst following the OSAMA raid and should have made alternate supply lines, assuming Paki retaliation. With that alternate plans firmly in place, US has decided to wage the "war" on its terms.
It is all planned - fully.
US does not indulge in such a large operation, without analyzing the consequences and taking alternate plans. The US already must have expected the worst following the OSAMA raid and should have made alternate supply lines, assuming Paki retaliation. With that alternate plans firmly in place, US has decided to wage the "war" on its terms.
It is all planned - fully.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
This 2 part BBC documentary - Secret Pakistan - Double Cross and Backlash and discusses all that went wrong. How US intelligence has known for many years about Pakistan's double cross but nothing could be done because of political exigencies. How Pakistan has been taking advantage of the US over the years. Very well done.
.|Sublime|.- Posts : 387
Join date : 2011-05-02
Re: Pakistani soldiers killed in US raid
I still can't stop laughing at this incident. Pakistan is being subjected to terror attacks from USA. The shamsi airbase that Pakistan demands USA vacate is, in all likelihood, already empty. So clearly Pakistan has no options. Here is something from another news source:
In September 2010, Pakistan also shut the main land route for Nato supplies at Torkham for 11 days after accusing Nato of killing three Pakistani troops.
The border was reopened after the United States formally apologised and most commentators expect the latest crisis to be resolved similarly.
The fact that Pakistan also ordered the United States to leave the Shamsi air base, reportedly used as a hub for US drone strikes on militants, was also interpreted as a sign of Islamabad's relatively limited options.
Pakistan, which depends on billions of dollars in US aid, has made similar demands in the past and there have been reports that American personnel already left the secretive base, southwest of Islamabad, earlier this year.
Nato troops frequently carry out operations against Taliban insurgents close to the border with Pakistan, which in many places is unmarked, as Pakistani troops also wrestle with putting down a home grown Taliban insurgency.
Afghan and US officials have frequently accused Pakistani troops at worst of colluding with the Taliban or at best of standing by while insurgents fire across the border, often in clear sight of Pakistani border posts.
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