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One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by silvermani Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:40 am
Thanks Obama!
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by confuzzled dude Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:49 am
Of course, everyone had surplus before Obama.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by silvermani Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:02 am
Which still means there is no improvement in the lives of so many Americans during his Presidency.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:15 am
The extent of hypocrisy about all this never fails to astound. This is what Obama tried to do about that:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/01/29/the-logic-behind-obamas-new-starter-savings-account/?
And the Republicans refused to touch that too saying that it takes away personal freedoms. So you can just take your criticism and stuff it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/01/29/the-logic-behind-obamas-new-starter-savings-account/?
And the Republicans refused to touch that too saying that it takes away personal freedoms. So you can just take your criticism and stuff it.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:16 am
Here's more very helpful moves by the Republicans to solve this problem:
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/04/526830627/republicans-scrap-rule-for-small-business-retirement-plans
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/04/526830627/republicans-scrap-rule-for-small-business-retirement-plans
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:32 am
You can't on the one hand preach personal responsibility (this is the GOP mantra) and then blame someone else for it, not to mention reject without consideration the solutions the person you are blaming proposes.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:35 am
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/22/require-automatic-enrollment-in-ira-plans/
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by silvermani Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:42 am
Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
silvermani- Posts : 1631
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:46 am
silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
Enforced savings like they have in India. Every salaried worker is forced to save in a Provident fund in India. It's like a tax, except you pay yourself with the tax. If people in India can do it, people here can do it.
There's nothing ivory tower about this. It's a simple idea that other countries have been implementing for a long time.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by Idéfix Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:11 am
I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by silvermani Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:18 am
Both parties have failed the working class. The democratic party used to be the party of the workers but not anymore. Under Obama's watch the rich got fatter while the working class got squeezed out.Idéfix wrote:I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by Vakavaka Pakapaka Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:21 am
Interestingly, it is the uneducated and those from backward states that vote for republicans. I can see how the poor preferred republicans long time ago. But republican party has changed a lot since then.Idéfix wrote:I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:41 am
Idéfix wrote:I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
All true, but I thought it also makes sense to point out some positive steps that President Obama took to address this vexing problem, and how the GOP pitched in to "help".
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by silvermani Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:49 am
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
Enforced savings like they have in India. Every salaried worker is forced to save in a Provident fund in India. It's like a tax, except you pay yourself with the tax. If people in India can do it, people here can do it.
There's nothing ivory tower about this. It's a simple idea that other countries have been implementing for a long time.
Again this shows how out of touch you are with reality. You say "if people in India can do it". Which people, the small fraction of the population who are salaried and are able to save a little every month? Can the unsalaried, low income urban/rural poor who form the majority of the population afford a forced monthly contribution amount each month? And just because they live in the US does not mean that people are better off vs people who live in India. The poor are poor anywhere. The working poor in this country struggle to meet their monthly expenses, so how is it going to help them if some of the scarce little they make is forcibly taken away? The only way it will work is if there is a sufficient tax cut to offset the loss of that contribution, leaving the monthly net income unchanged.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by Idéfix Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:59 am
Both parties are not equally bad for the working class. The Democratic party wants to raise the minimum wage, the Republican party wants to get rid of it. The Democratic party wants to keep subsidized healthcare in place for the "unable to savers," the Republican party wants to dismantle it so that they can give tax cuts to the millionaires. Obama wanted the billionaires to pay at least the tax rate that you and I pay, the Republicans didn't support that. Obama pushed this Buffett rule hard, the GOP-controlled Congress refused to pass it. On issue after issue, the Democrats support the working class, the Republicans actively undermine the working class.silvermani wrote:Both parties have failed the working class. The democratic party used to be the party of the workers but not anymore. Under Obama's watch the rich got fatter while the working class got squeezed out.Idéfix wrote:I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by Idéfix Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:03 pm
Yes. The Republicans cry a lot of crocodile tears about the victims of their policies. They talk about working families at the same time that they cut food stamps and housing assistance. They talk about children as the future at the same time that they cut health insurance and school lunches for kids.MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Idéfix wrote:I know the Republican solution that helps these "unable to savers." Tax cuts for the ultra-rich! Take away the government-subsidized healthcare that these "unable to savers" have today, give the money "saved" to the millionaires. Cut all assistance to the "unable to savers" -- food stamps, children's health insurance program, housing assistance, and pass on the "savings" to the millionaires. This is what the Republicans think is good for families who can barely cover their expenses each month.silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
All true, but I thought it also makes sense to point out some positive steps that President Obama took to address this vexing problem, and how the GOP pitched in to "help".
Idéfix- Posts : 8808
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:07 pm
silvermani wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:silvermani wrote:Ivory tower dwellers don't understand the economic reality of the working class. What good is a MyRa account if a family can barely meet its expenses each month? MyRa account for these non savers (unable to savers) has as much value as a mayir.
Enforced savings like they have in India. Every salaried worker is forced to save in a Provident fund in India. It's like a tax, except you pay yourself with the tax. If people in India can do it, people here can do it.
There's nothing ivory tower about this. It's a simple idea that other countries have been implementing for a long time.
Again this shows how out of touch you are with reality. You say "if people in India can do it". Which people, the small fraction of the population who are salaried and are able to save a little every month? Can the unsalaried, low income urban/rural poor who form the majority of the population afford a forced monthly contribution amount each month? And just because they live in the US does not mean that people are better off vs people who live in India. The poor are poor anywhere. The working poor in this country struggle to meet their monthly expenses, so how is it going to help them if some of the scarce little they make is forcibly taken away? The only way it will work is if there is a sufficient tax cut to offset the loss of that contribution, leaving the monthly net income unchanged.
Obama's ideas weren't going to solve the problem in its entirety, a problem that had been building up for a long time, but it was a start. The organized sector (i.e. those paid through a W2) in the US is much larger. So it makes sense to compare the organized sector of the Indian economy where provident fund contributions cannot be escaped and the much larger organized sector in the US. Enforced savings will go a long way towards addressing a huge portion of the problem. If it is necessary to offset that with a tax cut I am all for an even more progressive tax code than we have currently. Give the people at the lowest end of the economy struggling to save, a larger tax cut while holding tax rates steady or at higher rates in higher income groups to compensate. But your GOP friends will nix that idea right away calling it a Robin Hood strategy. I am good with it though.
If your criticism is that it will still not help everyone, my answer to you is that nothing in life especially when it involves large populations of human beings is going to be solved completely. The idea is to help as large a portion of the population as possible. Let us not let perfect become the enemy of really good.
I am happy to engage with you on the topic, but I need to see some acknowledgment from you that the democrats and Obama have thought and worried about it far more and that they have come up with reasonable workable proposals. Insisting that both parties are equally liable cannot be the basis for an honest conversation.
p.s: Actually what Obama was proposing was even more modest. It wasn't even enforced savings. It was default savings. You basically had to sign a form saying you opt out if you didn't want to participate. The GOP couldn't even support that!
Last edited by MaxEntropy_Man on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:15 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by Idéfix Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:10 pm
Relevant story in the news...
President Trump’s budget calls for sharply reducing funding for programs that shelter the poor and combat homelessness — with a notable exception: It leaves intact a type of federal housing subsidy that is paid directly to private landlords.
One of those landlords is Trump himself, who earns millions of dollars each year as a part-owner of Starrett City, the nation’s largest subsidized housing complex. Trump’s 4 percent stake in the Brooklyn complex earned him at least $5 million between January of last year and April 15, according to his recent financial disclosure.
Trump seeks sharp cuts to housing aid, except for program that brings him millions
President Trump’s budget calls for sharply reducing funding for programs that shelter the poor and combat homelessness — with a notable exception: It leaves intact a type of federal housing subsidy that is paid directly to private landlords.
One of those landlords is Trump himself, who earns millions of dollars each year as a part-owner of Starrett City, the nation’s largest subsidized housing complex. Trump’s 4 percent stake in the Brooklyn complex earned him at least $5 million between January of last year and April 15, according to his recent financial disclosure.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by confuzzled dude Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:50 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/why-dont-americans-save-money/478929/The bottom 90 percent of households saved 10 percent of their income in the first Reagan administration. By 2006, their savings rate was nearly negative-10 percent.
Looks like credit for this screw-up goes to Reagan & his trickle-down nonsense.
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Re: One in four Americans have ZERO money saved for a rainy day
by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:44 am
The only thing trickling down right now is Russian hooker urine.
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