5 Android Phones That Out-Muscle iPhone

by Impedimenta Mon May 09, 2011 1:51 pm

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10996024/1/5-android-phones-that-out-muscle-iphone.html?cm_ven=outbrain&psv=outbraintopstories&tools=&obref=obnetwork

by Mosquito Mon May 09, 2011 1:58 pm

Impedimenta wrote:http://www.thestreet.com/story/10996024/1/5-android-phones-that-out-muscle-iphone.html?cm_ven=outbrain&psv=outbraintopstories&tools=&obref=obnetwork

Andriod has so far captured mostly low-end market. They still have make a serious dent into high-end market. I will buy the hype then.

by charvaka Mon May 09, 2011 4:24 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Impedimenta wrote:http://www.thestreet.com/story/10996024/1/5-android-phones-that-out-muscle-iphone.html?cm_ven=outbrain&psv=outbraintopstories&tools=&obref=obnetwork

Andriod has so far captured mostly low-end market. They still have make a serious dent into high-end market. I will buy the hype then.

What high-end market are you talking about? Android phones are typically $500 at full retail, and $200 with carrier discounts.

by Mosquito Mon May 09, 2011 4:35 pm

charvaka wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Impedimenta wrote:http://www.thestreet.com/story/10996024/1/5-android-phones-that-out-muscle-iphone.html?cm_ven=outbrain&psv=outbraintopstories&tools=&obref=obnetwork

Andriod has so far captured mostly low-end market. They still have make a serious dent into high-end market. I will buy the hype then.
What high-end market are you talking about? Android phones are typically $500 at full retail, and $200 with carrier discounts.

Some Andriod phones do cater to high market. Many Andriod phones are free and or available at low cost. A good look would be see how much are the sales in each market.

by SomeProfile Mon May 09, 2011 4:37 pm

She is probably referring to the 'high-end' market where people spend money on barely used apps.

by charvaka Mon May 09, 2011 4:42 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Some Andriod phones do cater to high market. Many Andriod phones are free and or available at low cost. A good look would be see how much are the sales in each market.

I think most of the sales of Android are from the higher-end phones. I say this based on the OS versions that are out there. Most of the low-end phones have older OSs (like 2.0 and 2.1) while the higher-end ones have 2.2 and 2.3. Most Android phones out there are 2.2 or 2.3. If you look at the full set of Andrdoid phones carried by Verizon (the largest US carrier for Android), you will see that a majority of them are high-end smartphones.

by Mosquito Mon May 09, 2011 4:46 pm

charvaka wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Some Andriod phones do cater to high market. Many Andriod phones are free and or available at low cost. A good look would be see how much are the sales in each market.
I think most of the sales of Android are from the higher-end phones. I say this based on the OS versions that are out there. Most of the low-end phones have older OSs (like 2.0 and 2.1) while the higher-end ones have 2.2 and 2.3. Most Android phones out there are 2.2 or 2.3. If you look at the full set of Andrdoid phones carried by Verizon (the largest US carrier for Android), you will see that a majority of them are high-end smartphones.

I am not quite sure about that. Let me post that question to the app developers forum and see.

by Mosquito Mon May 09, 2011 4:53 pm

charvaka wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Some Andriod phones do cater to high market. Many Andriod phones are free and or available at low cost. A good look would be see how much are the sales in each market.
I think most of the sales of Android are from the higher-end phones. I say this based on the OS versions that are out there. Most of the low-end phones have older OSs (like 2.0 and 2.1) while the higher-end ones have 2.2 and 2.3. Most Android phones out there are 2.2 or 2.3. If you look at the full set of Andrdoid phones carried by Verizon (the largest US carrier for Android), you will see that a majority of them are high-end smartphones.

http://www.perivision.net/wordpress/2011/02/should-i-develop-for-apple-ios-android/

The above is the summary of discussion we had on a app developer mailer list couple of months back.

by SomeProfile Mon May 09, 2011 5:13 pm

I was right. You guys are talking about two different things. I think what Impedimenta and Charvaka meant by 'high-end' was the power and features of the phone. What PI meant by 'high-end' was people who will pay for apps. I think that iPhone users will continue to spend more on apps than Android phone users in the near future. App spending will skew towards the Android platform only when there are about 10 or more Android phones for every iPhone.

by CroMagnon Mon May 09, 2011 8:02 pm

charvaka wrote:What high-end market are you talking about? Android phones are typically $500 at full retail, and $200 with carrier discounts.

Apple has ~4% of market share of global phone and <20% of smartphone market yet has 50% of total profits.

Android phones usually sell at their full retail value for about a month. Soon you see the price falling to $99 on contract or buy one get one free offers on them.

by Impedimenta Tue May 10, 2011 10:14 am

CroMagnon wrote:
charvaka wrote:What high-end market are you talking about? Android phones are typically $500 at full retail, and $200 with carrier discounts.

Apple has ~4% of market share of global phone and <20% of smartphone market yet has 50% of total profits.

Android phones usually sell at their full retail value for about a month. Soon you see the price falling to $99 on contract or buy one get one free offers on them.

read SP's response one more time. Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple" and/or put off majorly by apple's "closed" systems. i read in one of the blogs that is makes very little sense to compare an operating system to an hardware device. so when we do a market share analysis, we have to compare apples to apples as in OS to OS or device to device.

by charvaka Tue May 10, 2011 12:17 pm

Impedimenta wrote:
CroMagnon wrote:
charvaka wrote:What high-end market are you talking about? Android phones are typically $500 at full retail, and $200 with carrier discounts.

Apple has ~4% of market share of global phone and <20% of smartphone market yet has 50% of total profits.

Android phones usually sell at their full retail value for about a month. Soon you see the price falling to $99 on contract or buy one get one free offers on them.

read SP's response one more time. Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple" and/or put off majorly by apple's "closed" systems. i read in one of the blogs that is makes very little sense to compare an operating system to an hardware device. so when we do a market share analysis, we have to compare apples to apples as in OS to OS or device to device.

That, and the following:
Marketshare <> Profit

Android has a greater share of the smartphone market now.

by Hellsangel Tue May 10, 2011 12:18 pm

charvaka wrote:

That, and the following:
Marketshare <> != Profit

Android has a greater share of the smartphone market now.

New syntax!

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 1:08 pm

Impedimenta wrote:
read SP's response one more time. Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple" and/or put off majorly by apple's "closed" systems. i read in one of the blogs that is makes very little sense to compare an operating system to an hardware device. so when we do a market share analysis, we have to compare apples to apples as in OS to OS or device to device.

You read my post again. Especially the quoted portion.

I wasn't comparing phones or operating systems. I was only responding to Charvaka's argument that Android based phones sell at the same price as iPhone.

by Mosquito Tue May 10, 2011 1:13 pm

charvaka wrote:

That, and the following:
Marketshare <> Profit

Android has a greater share of the smartphone market now.

Yes they do. But the point is most of the people who buy Andriod phone buy it as a replacement to their feature phone. Not because they want a smartphone. That is one big reason why it is very difficult to sell apps on Android phones. What I am interested in is the percentage of people who buy android phones because they want a smartphone and are prepared to buy a premium price. That is not very high.

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 1:22 pm

charvaka wrote:That, and the following:
Marketshare <> Profit

Android has a greater share of the smartphone market now.

Marketshare != Quality

But I'm not comparing phones. It is easy to compare hardware specs, but very difficult to compare overall value. One can argue that a phone with one year old hardware sells more than a similarly priced phone with much better hardware specs - that means people find iPhone more valuable than, say, Atrix. But that is a lengthy argument which can finally boil down to preferences and opinions.

That is why I focussed on point which can be discussed based on hard facts.

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 1:26 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote: What I am interested in is the percentage of people who buy android phones because they want a smartphone and are prepared to buy a premium price. That is not very high.

That is also a very good point - and something which makes a lot of sense for anyone developing a new app for smartphones.

I do not have the numbers but I remember reading that total non-free Android app sales is only a fraction of iOS app sales.

by Mosquito Tue May 10, 2011 1:26 pm

Impedimenta wrote:
. Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple" and/or put off majorly by apple's "closed" systems.

I seriously doubt that! Most probably it is a study done by Google or their sample is highly skewed. Most phone users dont understand technology that well(applies to both iphone and android). Most people buy Android because they are cheap. I dont deny that there are people who would buy Android phone because they hate Apple. But majority dont fall into that category.

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 1:27 pm

Impedimenta wrote:Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple"

Are you saying that most Android users are bigots?

by Mosquito Tue May 10, 2011 1:41 pm

CroMagnon wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote: What I am interested in is the percentage of people who buy android phones because they want a smartphone and are prepared to buy a premium price. That is not very high.

That is also a very good point - and something which makes a lot of sense for anyone developing a new app for smartphones.

I do not have the numbers but I remember reading that total non-free Android app sales is only a fraction of iOS app sales.

I know somebody who sold 5 million apps on iphone and sales on Android were 100,000. It is a huge turn off for app developers as android is highly fragmented and has to be customized for each device. Google wants to make money off ads and is not interested in app developers.

by Propagandhi711 Tue May 10, 2011 1:42 pm

CroMagnon wrote:
Impedimenta wrote:Also, most android users won't buy the iphone because they "hate apple"

Are you saying that most Android users are bigots?

I think they're hardware bigots. the worst kind that must be stamped out.

by charvaka Tue May 10, 2011 1:45 pm

CroMagnon wrote:
I do not have the numbers but I remember reading that total non-free Android app sales is only a fraction of iOS app sales.

This is true. And it is because iOS apps rip customers off just like Apple does. (Full disclosure: I own Apple stock, just not any Apple products.) Stuff that you can get for a lot less elsewhere, Apple sells you for more, and so do its developers. Case in point that a frequent traveler like you may relate to: TripIt with flight change notifications is $50 on iOS, but the same functionality is free on Android with pageOnce.

by charvaka Tue May 10, 2011 1:48 pm

[quote="CroMagnon"]

charvaka wrote:
That is why I focussed on point which can be discussed based on hard facts.

Both marketshare and profit are hard facts that can be discussed and compared. Android wins on the former, Apple the latter. Customers are putting more money down for Android, but Apple is charging higher margins.

by Propagandhi711 Tue May 10, 2011 1:57 pm

apple is coz apple can. it's a fashion accessory and easy to use which ppl are always willing to pay a higher price for.

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 1:59 pm

charvaka wrote:And it is because iOS apps rip customers off just like Apple does. (Full disclosure: I own Apple stock, just not any Apple products.) Stuff that you can get for a lot less elsewhere, Apple sells you for more, and so do its developers. Case in point that a frequent traveler like you may relate to: TripIt with flight change notifications is $50 on iOS, but the same functionality is free on Android with pageOnce.

Why do people pay so much for apps when they can simply get them for free by switching to an alternate platform? That only strengthen the argument that customers find iPhone more valuable than android based phones.

Wal-mart sells a knitted shirt for $8 and Christian Dior for $125. Both were manufactured in a facility where I used to work. The cost making wal-mart shirt was about $2. Cost of making CD shirt was about $5.

The problem is that wal-mart issn't willing to spend extra 3 dollars to give a much better quality product to its customers. Maybe its customers aren't willing to pay any more than $8 for a shirt.

Unlike CD, Apple doesn't operate in a niche market. Yet, it manages to command premium price. That is the beauty of Apple's brand. Like it or hate it, you gotta accept that it is the most powerful brand in the world right now.

PS: I do believe that Apple's strategy is not going to work in the long run. They managed to crush everyone in the MP3 space, but times have changed and there are significant challenges in the tablet and smartphone space. But for now, Apple is the king of the jungle.

by Mosquito Tue May 10, 2011 2:00 pm

charvaka wrote:
CroMagnon wrote:
I do not have the numbers but I remember reading that total non-free Android app sales is only a fraction of iOS app sales.

This is true. And it is because iOS apps rip customers off just like Apple does.

Oh please!! Macs are much better machines than PCs and they last longer. In the end your price/year is the same. Most of the iOS paid apps sell between 99cents to 9.99 depending on the functionality. That is NOT a rip off.

by SomeProfile Tue May 10, 2011 2:00 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:the point is most of the people who buy Andriod phone buy it as a replacement to their feature phone. Not because they want a smartphone. That is one big reason why it is very difficult to sell apps on Android phones. What I am interested in is the percentage of people who buy android phones because they want a smartphone and are prepared to buy a premium price. That is not very high.

1. Most people who buy smartphones these days are upgrading from features phones or Blackberrys. This is true for both Android and iPhone. This is not a phenomenon unique to Android. You just perceive it that way cuz Android phones are available in greater price range, models and from wider suppliers. If the iPhone was available through all the carriers and could be bought from a lot more channels, you'd have the same perception of the iPhone as well.

2. The reason why app sales are higher on the iPhone is the demographic that goes for Apple products. These are people of a certain mindset, who don't mind paying higher for products and services, while the same or very similar choices are available elsewhere for much lesser cost or for free. After all, it is the platform on which the $1000 I am Rich app was released and some people actually bought it.

by CroMagnon Tue May 10, 2011 2:01 pm

charvaka wrote:Both marketshare and profit are hard facts that can be discussed and compared. Android wins on the former, Apple the latter. Customers are putting more money down for Android, but Apple is charging higher margins.

True. But I never debated the marketshare.

I was debating your initial argument that Android phones sell at the same price as iPhone - which they do, but only for a short duration.

by SomeProfile Tue May 10, 2011 2:01 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:Oh please!! Macs are much better machines than PCs and they last longer.

If this is not a declaration of war, I don't know what is. Prove it. PROVE IT!

by charvaka Tue May 10, 2011 2:13 pm

CroMagnon wrote:Like it or hate it, you gotta accept that it is the most powerful brand in the world right now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate AAPL at all. I love the stock, and intend to hang on to it!

by Mosquito Tue May 10, 2011 2:18 pm

SomeProfile wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:Oh please!! Macs are much better machines than PCs and they last longer.

If this is not a declaration of war, I don't know what is. Prove it. PROVE IT!

LOL! Macs are very good machines. Quality of iPhone is definitely debatable.

by Impedimenta Wed May 11, 2011 8:10 am

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
SomeProfile wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:Oh please!! Macs are much better machines than PCs and they last longer.

If this is not a declaration of war, I don't know what is. Prove it. PROVE IT!

LOL! Macs are very good machines. Quality of iPhone is definitely debatable.

woman at war,
i love it when people say "macs are very good machines"! i love it, i say. and, you all compare a 500 dollar store bought dell to a 2500 dollar mac. very appropriate. granted, that it is a matter of elegance vs efficiency and while mac comes ready out of the box, Pcs require a heck a lot of work but for stuff like office live, there is no question about the performance of a PC. I have a mac but cannot fathom my team do development work on a mac. i love mac for the hardware, elegance and ease of use but i still turn to my PC for all other computing needs. also, MS has come a LOOOOOONG way in perfecting its OS software but some of what is out there now works really good.
having said that, i will never use a PC for my personal use just because of the amazing user experience that the mac has given me. you turn the mac on and its instantly up and connected!!! with the PC, i always had to power on, go get my coffee and then wait more:-)

by Mosquito Wed May 11, 2011 12:23 pm

Impedimenta wrote:
woman at war,
i love it when people say "macs are very good machines"! i love it, i say. and, you all compare a 500 dollar store bought dell to a 2500 dollar mac. very appropriate. granted, that it is a matter of elegance vs efficiency and while mac comes ready out of the box, Pcs require a heck a lot of work but for stuff like office live, there is no question about the performance of a PC. I have a mac but cannot fathom my team do development work on a mac. i love mac for the hardware, elegance and ease of use but i still turn to my PC for all other computing needs. also, MS has come a LOOOOOONG way in perfecting its OS software but some of what is out there now works really good.
having said that, i will never use a PC for my personal use just because of the amazing user experience that the mac has given me. you turn the mac on and its instantly up and connected!!! with the PC, i always had to power on, go get my coffee and then wait more:-)

Macs dont cost 2500, a decent machine costs 1300 but lasts 3ce as long as a dell. Macs are very powerful machines. The only thing mac doesnt run properly is MS Exchange or any MS tools for that matter(This is supposed to have been improved). There is a reason why macs are more popular across research facilities. Nothing beats unix for development work.

by charvaka Wed May 11, 2011 12:28 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
There is a reason why macs are more popular across research facilities.

Yes, and that reason is that research facilities don't really watch how they spend their money. No quarterly earnings to report, so easy to splurge on expensive toys.

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Nothing beats unix for development work.

If people want unix for development work, I'd say get a Linux box for $400, not a Mac for $1,400.

PS: Buy AAPL stock, not their products.
PPS: Don't take my advice seriously; at least not until after I sell my AAPL stock.

by Mosquito Wed May 11, 2011 12:31 pm

charvaka wrote:
PseudoIntellectual wrote:
There is a reason why macs are more popular across research facilities.
Yes, and that reason is that research facilities don't really watch how they spend their money. No quarterly earnings to report, so easy to splurge on expensive toys.

PseudoIntellectual wrote:
Nothing beats unix for development work.
If people want unix for development work, I'd say get a Linux box for $400, not a Mac for $1,400.

PS: Buy AAPL stock, not their products.
PPS: Don't take my advice seriously; at least not until after I sell my AAPL stock.

Dude, the whole point is PCs have shitty hardware, so they dont last. I am done arguing here.

by doofus_maximus Wed May 11, 2011 12:49 pm

PseudoIntellectual wrote:There is a reason why macs are more popular across research facilities. Nothing beats unix for development work.

I work at a research facility. I use a mac.. But I hate Mac snobs.. my boss is one.

I use pc at home..find no difference these days in efficiency.

by CroMagnon Wed May 11, 2011 12:58 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:But I hate Mac snobs.. my boss is one.

I use pc at home..find no difference these days in efficiency.

There are fanatics on each side of the aisle. Windows 7 is a good operating system. Vista was a disaster.

But, there are very few hardware vendors which even come close to Apple's hardware though. Samsung has started making decent laptops, but they still aren't the same quality as Macbook Pros.

PS1: Show me one laptop with a semi decent trackpad.

PS2: I own no Apple products.

by artood2 Wed May 11, 2011 10:57 pm

Windows7 is pretty good. Most Unix development happens on Linux servers using virtualization software on windows laptops. Apple laptops also have similar amount of issues as other laptops and you pay over the top for all those proprietary accessories.

by charvaka Wed May 11, 2011 11:50 pm

CroMagnon wrote:PS2: I own no Apple products.

Now we are talking!

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