But here’s my basic argument: Education is a waste of time and money because so much of the payoff for education isn’t really coming from learning useful job skills. Nor is it coming from students savoring the educational experience. Rather, most of what’s going on is that people are showing off — or, as economists call it, they are “signaling.” They are trying to impress future employers by showing how dedicated they are.

Here’s where I think we disagree: You think we have too much education, and I think we’re doing education wrong. In other words, you want less education, and I want better education.

Idéfix wrote:This has been the case in every generation -- most people who study a field in college do not apply it in their average workday. But the education benefits you in other ways; it opens doors at critical times in your career and it prepares you to think about problems in certain ways. I would say education can be done better, but I don't think we will ever solve this problem; with the pace of technological change, we may only be increasing the gaps between (a) what students learn in college and what the leading practitioners of the same field do at work, and (b) what students learn in college and what they end up doing later on in their careers. But the answer is not less education.

Idéfix wrote:This has been the case in every generation -- most people who study a field in college do not apply it in their average workday. But the education benefits you in other ways; it opens doors at critical times in your career and it prepares you to think about problems in certain ways. I would say education can be done better, but I don't think we will ever solve this problem; with the pace of technological change, we may only be increasing the gaps between (a) what students learn in college and what the leading practitioners of the same field do at work, and (b) what students learn in college and what they end up doing later on in their careers. But the answer is not less education.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Hellsangel wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Comrade wants the German model of apprenticeships.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Comrade wants the German model of apprenticeships.

If he dug deep, he would find that in Germany the job apprenticeships / trades in schools etc. are usually on the top and in addition to the basic education and not in the place or replacing it.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Comrade wants the German model of apprenticeships.

If he dug deep, he would find that in Germany the job apprenticeships / trades in schools etc. are usually on the top and in addition to the basic education and not in the place or replacing it.

Did you read the article, it aint talking about basic education.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

Seva Lamberdar wrote:Public education in schools and colleges is not meant as a job apprenticeship.

Comrade wants the German model of apprenticeships.

If he dug deep, he would find that in Germany the job apprenticeships / trades in schools etc. are usually on the top and in addition to the basic education and not in the place or replacing it.

Did you read the article, it aint talking about basic education.

Isn't he saying that it's not necessary to learn everything taught currently as education because only a small fraction of it will be used later in the job?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Idéfix wrote:This has been the case in every generation -- most people who study a field in college do not apply it in their average workday. But the education benefits you in other ways; it opens doors at critical times in your career and it prepares you to think about problems in certain ways. I would say education can be done better, but I don't think we will ever solve this problem; with the pace of technological change, we may only be increasing the gaps between (a) what students learn in college and what the leading practitioners of the same field do at work, and (b) what students learn in college and what they end up doing later on in their careers. But the answer is not less education.

Don't you think that 4 years and 130 credits is a bit too much, especially, considering the constant education/training that one needs to go through to keep up with the demands/requirements at work or to make progress in ones career. I would rather have the colleges reduced but focused course load than forcing them take the courses that most likely are irrelevant.

Kris wrote:

Idéfix wrote:This has been the case in every generation -- most people who study a field in college do not apply it in their average workday. But the education benefits you in other ways; it opens doors at critical times in your career and it prepares you to think about problems in certain ways. I would say education can be done better, but I don't think we will ever solve this problem; with the pace of technological change, we may only be increasing the gaps between (a) what students learn in college and what the leading practitioners of the same field do at work, and (b) what students learn in college and what they end up doing later on in their careers. But the answer is not less education.

>>> The problem comes in when skills are conflated with education, the latter being a much broader concept. A truly well rounded education should include skills as well as equip the student to connect ideas, think critically as well as be able to enrich their personal lives. The American system with the general education component should ideally be suitable for this, but I am not sure if it accomplishes that, judging by some of the people I have hired.

Idéfix wrote:

Kris wrote:
>>> The problem comes in when skills are conflated with education, the latter being a much broader concept. A truly well rounded education should include skills as well as equip the student to connect ideas, think critically as well as be able to enrich their personal lives. The American system with the general education component should ideally be suitable for this, but I am not sure if it accomplishes that, judging by some of the people I have hired.

Overall, the American system does well. I am curious what aspects you found lacking in these hires... I find hiring to be a bit of a crap-shoot. People who do well in interviews don't always do well on the job, and vice versa.

Hellsangel wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-19/boom-turns-to-bust-for-millennials-across-advanced-economies