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Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by MulaiAzhagi Sat May 05, 2012 9:37 am
The presidents of both Harvard and MIT are women.
But for one man, they would not be where they are today.
Who do you think that man is?
But for one man, they would not be where they are today.
Who do you think that man is?
MulaiAzhagi- Posts : 1254
Join date : 2011-12-20
Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Petrichor Sat May 05, 2012 9:41 am
Summers?
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
Join date : 2012-04-10
Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 05, 2012 9:47 am
MulaiAzhagi wrote:The presidents of both Harvard and MIT are women.
But for one man, they would not be where they are today.
Who do you think that man is?
they don't have to thank anyone other than their own teachers, parents, and other mentors who had an influence on their lives as scholars and administrators; not to mention their own accomplishments.
i know where you're going with this, but i don't agree with you.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat May 05, 2012 10:00 am
MulaiAzhagi wrote:The presidents of both Harvard and MIT are women.
But for one man, they would not be where they are today.
Who do you think that man is?
Uncle Sam and his diversity policies.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
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Age : 110
Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Petrichor Sat May 05, 2012 10:12 am
1. Why is it that when a woman is named to a high position, there are more expectations and she is subject to closer scrutiny than her predecessors?
2. What are the reasons for a perverse, jealous and piercing male gaze at women that reach leadership positions?
3. Women cannot hear this often enough:
""There may be signals out there that tell me I can't do this, but I'm not going to recognize them," she said. "Adrenaline is a great hormone.""
Quote from a 2007 gathering of women presidents:
What was not an accident, they said, was that Tilghman, Gutmann and Simmons were all young Princeton administrators groomed by former president Harold Shapiro.
"He would deny credit," Gutmann said. "But, he should get credit."
2. What are the reasons for a perverse, jealous and piercing male gaze at women that reach leadership positions?
3. Women cannot hear this often enough:
""There may be signals out there that tell me I can't do this, but I'm not going to recognize them," she said. "Adrenaline is a great hormone.""
Quote from a 2007 gathering of women presidents:
What was not an accident, they said, was that Tilghman, Gutmann and Simmons were all young Princeton administrators groomed by former president Harold Shapiro.
"He would deny credit," Gutmann said. "But, he should get credit."
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by MulaiAzhagi Sat May 05, 2012 10:47 am
atcg wrote:Summers?
===> Absloutely.
If that overeducated idiot had not put his foot in his mouth, Ms. Faust would not have been chosen as the President of Harvard and then later the post of the president of MIT also went to a woman.
Both are eminently qualified for the jobs. They may well be more qualified than many of the previous presidents of these institutions.
Change in status quo happens unexpectedly that too very quickly.
MulaiAzhagi- Posts : 1254
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Petrichor Sat May 05, 2012 11:04 am
MulaiAzhagi wrote:atcg wrote:Summers?
and then later the post of the president of MIT also went to a woman.
Hockfield took office in 2005 while Faust made her bargain in 2007.
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by MulaiAzhagi Sat May 05, 2012 11:19 am
atcg wrote:MulaiAzhagi wrote:atcg wrote:Summers?
and then later the post of the president of MIT also went to a woman.
Hockfield took office in 2005 while Faust made her bargain in 2007.
===> You are correct about the dates.
Summers made the speech in Jan 2005.
I think it must have atleast contributed to the elevation of Ms. Faust to the job.
MulaiAzhagi- Posts : 1254
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Maria S Sat May 05, 2012 11:33 am
Sara,
Only these women can answer your question.
Saying Summers was the person they should thank is like Obama thanking Bush for being elected President! Sure, it may have been one of the factors..which helped create an environment for some real change-people who are unlikely to emerge..but, it's a very small piece of the huge picture.
I have never heard about Dr. Susan Hockfield..and looked up her profile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Hockfield
Interesting, to see her background in Neuroscience- a Scientist who heads MIT..kind of a nice surprise! I also see that she is married.
*If I may show my more conservative/traditional side..whatever the label may be..I think no matter who a woman thanks- if married, she has to thank her husband first. A whole lot of credit goes to a supportive husband behind the scenes..especially behind women who are visible in leadership/executive positions. They are often the only people, like wives with husbands who have power positions who get the brunt of all that happens at the office..when the women come home..share the highs and lows. More credit to those who keep a low profile and make their wives look good.
On a different note..Sara, did you see the most recent IAS results from India..from the topper..a whole lot of lady doctors and dentists! It's great to see women branch out and after MBBS, not automatically go for MD or MS and other medical specializations..they are really branching out..a few of them I think have passed IPS too.
Only these women can answer your question.
Saying Summers was the person they should thank is like Obama thanking Bush for being elected President! Sure, it may have been one of the factors..which helped create an environment for some real change-people who are unlikely to emerge..but, it's a very small piece of the huge picture.
I have never heard about Dr. Susan Hockfield..and looked up her profile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Hockfield
Interesting, to see her background in Neuroscience- a Scientist who heads MIT..kind of a nice surprise! I also see that she is married.
*If I may show my more conservative/traditional side..whatever the label may be..I think no matter who a woman thanks- if married, she has to thank her husband first. A whole lot of credit goes to a supportive husband behind the scenes..especially behind women who are visible in leadership/executive positions. They are often the only people, like wives with husbands who have power positions who get the brunt of all that happens at the office..when the women come home..share the highs and lows. More credit to those who keep a low profile and make their wives look good.
On a different note..Sara, did you see the most recent IAS results from India..from the topper..a whole lot of lady doctors and dentists! It's great to see women branch out and after MBBS, not automatically go for MD or MS and other medical specializations..they are really branching out..a few of them I think have passed IPS too.
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Petrichor Sat May 05, 2012 11:44 am
There were other ivies that had women presidents (for quite some time) when Summers made the speech. From a strict attribution point, there was also significant pressure on other ivies to show progressivism. So, while Summers controversy could have been a catalyst, that too, only on the Harvard Corporation (and not at MIT), she seemed to have emerged a winner after the "first choice" candidate withdrew himself.
So yes, Summers speech "could" have contributed but only in the sense of a butterfly effect. These are serious people with impartial reasoning.
In a similar manner, Hockfield's ascent could be marginally attributed to her predecessor Vest's admission of bias at MIT against women. However, the search committee made gracious remarks discounting that her gender had anything to do with it.
As soon as a woman is elevated and especially if she is the first woman in that post, the question of whether she got it because of some gender politics, is typically raised. In the absence of egregious evidence like Sarah Palin landing at MIT as President, I see no reason to have such questions.
So yes, Summers speech "could" have contributed but only in the sense of a butterfly effect. These are serious people with impartial reasoning.
In a similar manner, Hockfield's ascent could be marginally attributed to her predecessor Vest's admission of bias at MIT against women. However, the search committee made gracious remarks discounting that her gender had anything to do with it.
As soon as a woman is elevated and especially if she is the first woman in that post, the question of whether she got it because of some gender politics, is typically raised. In the absence of egregious evidence like Sarah Palin landing at MIT as President, I see no reason to have such questions.
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 05, 2012 12:43 pm
it's the way you phrased it that stuck in my craw, especially the word "thankful". if you want to say summers's speech was a catalyst maybe we could have had a more meaningful conversation. fathers who have daughters get especially exercised about this sort of thing.
harvard didn't do anything special. women constitute half the population. harvard just did something they had neglected to do. i can understand if it's hard to find a qualified woman in a male dominated tech school like caltech or MIT. in the case of harvard, it's a no brainer.
harvard didn't do anything special. women constitute half the population. harvard just did something they had neglected to do. i can understand if it's hard to find a qualified woman in a male dominated tech school like caltech or MIT. in the case of harvard, it's a no brainer.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
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Re: Who is that one person they should be thankful to?
by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat May 05, 2012 2:00 pm
atcg wrote:1. Why is it that when a woman is named to a high position, there are more expectations and she is subject to closer scrutiny than her predecessors?
2. What are the reasons for a perverse, jealous and piercing male gaze at women that reach leadership positions?
3. Women cannot hear this often enough:
""There may be signals out there that tell me I can't do this, but I'm not going to recognize them," she said. "Adrenaline is a great hormone.""
Quote from a 2007 gathering of women presidents:
What was not an accident, they said, was that Tilghman, Gutmann and Simmons were all young Princeton administrators groomed by former president Harold Shapiro.
"He would deny credit," Gutmann said. "But, he should get credit."
Get the resumes of the top 100 female head of institutions. replace their names with male names or worse Asian (indian, arab, chinki/vietnamese) name. an OVERWHELMING majority of the 100 resumes will not make it even to the mid-level management.
Face it. It has become a fashion to put a female face at the top. Every division below is under pressure to show female faces. We have been told EXPLICITLY to pick women AUTOMATICALLY for final interviews as long as they meet minimum requirements.
But, a handicapped black female is Gold and she can write her own check.
This from a guy who used to (still do) be a staunch feminist. This is not different from the 7 mark-pass awarded to the triple attempt quota-based, donatation-paid med students in India.
Sorry...that is the fact and that is how it is.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
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