never heard this song before

by Impedimenta Sat May 05, 2012 11:08 pm

someone sang this in a private concert. then came home and googled it. loved it! don't know what movie but the music director is ARR.

by MulaiAzhagi Sat May 05, 2012 11:24 pm

===> ARR is more of hype. He has done some good pieces. But there are equally good and sometimes better Music Directors than this man. But we hardly hear about them.

by garam_kuta Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:===> ARR is more of hype. He has done some good pieces. But there are equally good and sometimes better Music Directors than this man. But we hardly hear about them.

mullai - puleeeeeeeeeeeeze ARR is pretty unique and not hype-back up your statement elaborating with detail; he's the true renaissance man for thamizh film music not those recycle copyi cats..reading your lines, Etho pugaiyara mAdhiri, theeyara vAsanai varuthu saaamiyov

by garam_kuta Sun May 06, 2012 1:31 am

Impedimenta wrote:someone sang this in a private concert. then came home and googled it. loved it! don't know what movie but the music director is ARR.

ah.. please do elaborate why you love this piece so that pedestrians can get enlightened and see what they miss.

by Guest Sun May 06, 2012 10:02 am

I r'ber listening to this one. I think someone posted a link to this in old Sulekha. Yeah, a lovely one!

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 06, 2012 10:20 am

Impedimenta wrote:someone sang this in a private concert. then came home and googled it. loved it! don't know what movie but the music director is ARR.

very nice. bhimpalasi (related to carnatic abheri) based i think.

here are a couple of classical vocal versions of bhimpalasi that i've enjoyed over the years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxm-ddXkBvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkt5OPLpcuo&feature=related

with the second one, the brothers go right away to the drutha sangathi and so you can make out the resemblance to the song in your OP right away.

by MulaiAzhagi Sun May 06, 2012 10:41 am

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital-closeup/2010/09/08/rehmans-cwg-score-lacks-spunk/

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 06, 2012 11:08 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital-closeup/2010/09/08/rehmans-cwg-score-lacks-spunk/

this guy compares him to so many other names from bombay cinema, but no mention of the one true genius music director indian cinema has produced, iLayarAjA! what a gas bag!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun May 06, 2012 12:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital-closeup/2010/09/08/rehmans-cwg-score-lacks-spunk/

this guy compares him to so many other names from bombay cinema, but no mention of the one true genius music director indian cinema has produced, iLayarAjA! what a gas bag!

For me there is no one to beat the MSV-Ramamoorthy COMBO. Period.

There are 100s for Jinghi-Jikka songs, but there is only one for truly great music.

by FluteHolder Sun May 06, 2012 1:54 pm

This song was posted by bittu first:)

Shankar Tucker's group I guess. Iyer sister's songs from the same group is also nice.

by Guest Sun May 06, 2012 2:19 pm

FluteHolder wrote:This song was posted by bittu first:)

Yeah, I r'ber the same too, but wasn't very sure.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun May 06, 2012 3:36 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital-closeup/2010/09/08/rehmans-cwg-score-lacks-spunk/

this guy compares him to so many other names from bombay cinema, but no mention of the one true genius music director indian cinema has produced, iLayarAjA! what a gas bag!

For me there is no one to beat the MSV-Ramamoorthy COMBO. Period.

There are 100s for Jinghi-Jikka songs, but there is only one for truly great music.

the sheer breadth and number of carnatic ragams that ilayaraja explored in the course of an incredibly creative career makes him by far the most accomplished musician in indian cinema period. and he was also not beyond lending his voice on occasion with unusual but always interesting results. MSV etc. had nowhere near ilayaraja's creativity. i think you are mistaken.

by garam_kuta Sun May 06, 2012 4:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/capital-closeup/2010/09/08/rehmans-cwg-score-lacks-spunk/

this guy compares him to so many other names from bombay cinema, but no mention of the one true genius music director indian cinema has produced, iLayarAjA! what a gas bag!

For me there is no one to beat the MSV-Ramamoorthy COMBO. Period.

There are 100s for Jinghi-Jikka songs, but there is only one for truly great music.

the sheer breadth and number of carnatic ragams that ilayaraja explored in the course of an incredibly creative career makes him by far the most accomplished musician in indian cinema period. and he was also not beyond lending his voice on occasion with unusual but always interesting results. MSV etc. had nowhere near ilayaraja's creativity. i think you are mistaken.

there are about 10-15 frameworks within which ilayaraja recycled 100s and what is the big deal in composing songs with well-defined carnatic music raagas.. its already laid out for you and the lyrics were written to fit that mettu ( mettukku paattu, not the other way)..matter of fact didn't thamizh film songs start that way in the 40's and raaga based songs dominated thru 50's and then on the same theme most music was composed by MSV etc. until the time it was imposed upon by Sridhar etc., to bring in some 'western' music like samba and other music mostly of cuban origin with south american vocal songs of brazil, mexican and many syrupy greek songs - forget those directly copied out of hindi film songs a lot of which were anyways based on south american - the involvement of those instruments tell the story. When I get some time, I think will try to tabulate those 10+ frameworks and the hardly perceptible highly similar sounding songs of recycle Ilayaraja which includes interludes that have maxed repetition.

Nevertheless I accede to that I do like a few of his songs and IMO he is just like anybody else and burnt out quickly but would not accept it - certainly no Gnani, at least in isai.

there's Ramanathan, KVM, MSV, Ramamurthy, Veda, Ilayaraja, Deva and then OTOH is ARR

by garam_kuta Sun May 06, 2012 5:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Impedimenta wrote:someone sang this in a private concert. then came home and googled it. loved it! don't know what movie but the music director is ARR.

very nice. bhimpalasi (related to carnatic abheri) based i think.

here are a couple of classical vocal versions of bhimpalasi that i've enjoyed over the years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxm-ddXkBvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkt5OPLpcuo&feature=related

with the second one, the brothers go right away to the drutha sangathi and so you can make out the resemblance to the song in your OP right away.

very nice Max, so teasing... thanks for the links.. made my evening drunken

by Impedimenta Sun May 06, 2012 8:06 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Impedimenta wrote:someone sang this in a private concert. then came home and googled it. loved it! don't know what movie but the music director is ARR.

very nice. bhimpalasi (related to carnatic abheri) based i think.

here are a couple of classical vocal versions of bhimpalasi that i've enjoyed over the years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxm-ddXkBvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkt5OPLpcuo&feature=related

with the second one, the brothers go right away to the drutha sangathi and so you can make out the resemblance to the song in your OP right away.

abheri maathiri thaan irukku. anyways, thanks for these other links. perfect for beating the nasty sunday evening blues.

by doofus_maximus Mon May 07, 2012 10:36 am

Impy: Manmohini song by ARR is from a movie called Yuvraj. Other songs in that movie are okay. But this song is great. It is on my weekly playlist and my son loves it too. He calls it 'dhom dhom' song.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon May 07, 2012 10:38 am

doofus_maximus wrote:Impy: Manmohini song by ARR is from a movie called Yuvraj. Other songs in that movie are okay. But this song is great. It is on my weekly playlist and my son loves it too. He calls it 'dhom dhom' song.

i listened to the original and it's ok. but aditya rao's cover that impy posted totally rocks.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon May 07, 2012 10:43 am

this kid by the way was raised in pittsburgh. incredibly rich voice he has.

by Impedimenta Mon May 07, 2012 1:03 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:Impy: Manmohini song by ARR is from a movie called Yuvraj. Other songs in that movie are okay. But this song is great. It is on my weekly playlist and my son loves it too. He calls it 'dhom dhom' song.

i did eventually find that out but really did not care for the original movie version. this guy has phenomenal vocal power.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon May 07, 2012 3:00 pm

FluteHolder wrote:This song was posted by bittu first:)

Shankar Tucker's group I guess. Iyer sister's songs from the same group is also nice.

i've enjoyed some of the performances organized by shankar tucker. this one is melodious, but i don't understand the notion of two people singing in unison. are the two women singing together because they are sisters and one of them has nothing better to do? because a song sung by two is better than the same song sung by one? would a song sung by three be better than the same one sung by two?

"iyer" sisters?

by FluteHolder Mon May 07, 2012 3:25 pm

I guess you didnot enjoy listening to this song. Did you get similar questions when you listen to BoenyM/Abba?

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Mon May 07, 2012 4:37 pm

FluteHolder wrote:I guess you didnot enjoy listening to this song. Did you get similar questions when you listen to BoenyM/Abba?

i enjoyed it somewhat, partly because of the accompanying clarinet, whose muted sound i like. about my Qs, i think you're on the wrong track; i would probably have similar Qs about abba if this thread were about them, and they too sang in unison.

by FluteHolder Mon May 07, 2012 4:54 pm

by harharmahadev Mon May 07, 2012 5:11 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:this kid by the way was raised in pittsburgh. incredibly rich voice he has.

This kid's father works with me and sits right next to my office. He showed me the youtube the other day. He is definitely very talented. I'm actually surprised somebody shared this youtube...what a wierd coincidence.

Yes, he is from Pittsburgh.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon May 07, 2012 6:53 pm

JM: it is quite common both in c&h music for siblings to sing together. if done skillfully this can have a very pleasing and aesthetic dimension. i'm trying to find a good example to demonstrate this. this may not be the best example, but watch this video of malladi brothers who have been making the rounds quite a bit this sides of the states lately. if you get a bit bored with the initial singing, you can fast forward to round about 6:42 where they start intricate overlapping phrases of kalpana swaram singing with some pleasing effects. i'll try to find and post more examples of brothers/sisters singing together to good effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JstZy0TQQkg

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon May 07, 2012 7:02 pm

another wonderful example is the pair of rajan-sajan misra. i love these guys, have been a fan for a long time and they never fail to please. love the timbre of their voices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQUuSj1c3E

p.s: there is a length introduction by a sitariya who plays the same raga, jogkauns (a jod-raga or a combination of two ragas, jog and malkauns) for a bit before he introduces the bros. they are from benares; rajan the one with the hair is the older of the two and sajan the one losing hair is younger. i rather like their tAn singing though it tends to be a bit showy every now and then. what is always astounding is the absolute mastery and control they have over their voices. they use it like they are mechanical instruments to be played at will. breathtaking.

another example by RSM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd-ZO_5CIn4&feature=relmfu

you can tell i am a huge fan. i can keep listening to these guys forever and ever.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue May 08, 2012 11:57 am

FluteHolder wrote:

thanks. thanks a lot. i listened to "The Abbas" - for the the first time in my life. i have the same kind of Qs for them as i did for "The Iyers". i have a further Q for The Abbas: where did you get your clothes?

here's an old song about teenage love, sung in tight, intricate harmony by caucasian brothers. (one doesn't know their caste.):

by FluteHolder Tue May 08, 2012 12:28 pm

More for you to have questions on their clothes:)

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue May 08, 2012 12:37 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:JM: it is quite common both in c&h music for siblings to sing together. if done skillfully this can have a very pleasing and aesthetic dimension. i'm trying to find a good example to demonstrate this. this may not be the best example, but watch this video of malladi brothers who have been making the rounds quite a bit this sides of the states lately. if you get a bit bored with the initial singing, you can fast forward to round about 6:42 where they start intricate overlapping phrases of kalpana swaram singing with some pleasing effects. i'll try to find and post more examples of brothers/sisters singing together to good effect.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JstZy0TQQkg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JstZy0TQQkg[/quote[/url]]

thanks for the info, max. i don't dispute any of it, but my opinion is: the marginal value of another voice while singing in unison is zero or negative, more likely the latter. here's a case where it is - to me - resoundingly positive:

i think the everly brothers attained their peak popularity in the late 50s; they predate elvis, and sang about young love in popular american culture. i had posted enough music by crosby, stills, etc. as perfect examples of harmony in rock, and decided not to, again.

on the video of the malladi brothers, i did not get bored with the initial singing. (good carnatic music, vetted by someone who knows the music and its artistes, is always welcome.) i think that at least one of them would have sounded better without the other.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:my opinion is: the marginal value of another voice while singing in unison is zero or negative, more likely the latter. here's a case where it is - to me - resoundingly positive

amendment: here's a case where the marginal value of another voice - to me - is resoundingly positive, and that's because the everly brothers are singing in harmony, not unison.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 08, 2012 1:18 pm

i get your point but singing or playing to create interesting harmonic effects is i suppose never the point of classical music. here is another pair i like a lot, the father and daughter pair of violinists drs. parur m.s. gopalakrishnan and m.s.narmada. till about 4:42 they play in unison and then play swara patterns alternatively, sometimes to reinforce and continue a phrase that has been played by the other person and sometimes to start wholly new ones. i like the tightly knit rhythmic control they exercise which is critical to the success of something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0djHJBAP3U&feature=related

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 08, 2012 1:24 pm

and speaking of interesting harmonies, i've always liked the manhattan transfer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7YsE-wQn9c&feature=related

by Guest Tue May 08, 2012 2:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i get your point but singing or playing to create interesting harmonic effects is i suppose never the point of classical music. here is another pair i like a lot, the father and daughter pair of violinists drs. parur m.s. gopalakrishnan and m.s.narmada. till about 4:42 they play in unison and then play swara patterns alternatively, sometimes to reinforce and continue a phrase that has been played by the other person and sometimes to start wholly new ones. i like the tightly knit rhythmic control they exercise which is critical to the success of something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0djHJBAP3U&feature=related

Wrong link. This is the link to the mongol music. Can you post the right link pls.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 08, 2012 2:30 pm

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i get your point but singing or playing to create interesting harmonic effects is i suppose never the point of classical music. here is another pair i like a lot, the father and daughter pair of violinists drs. parur m.s. gopalakrishnan and m.s.narmada. till about 4:42 they play in unison and then play swara patterns alternatively, sometimes to reinforce and continue a phrase that has been played by the other person and sometimes to start wholly new ones. i like the tightly knit rhythmic control they exercise which is critical to the success of something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0djHJBAP3U&feature=related

Wrong link. This is the link to the mongol music. Can you post the right link pls.

sorry about that; this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXfgeLbRM8k

by Guest Tue May 08, 2012 2:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
sorry about that; this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXfgeLbRM8k

Thanks. Very nice!

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Tue May 08, 2012 2:58 pm

i had wondered when drs. gopalakrishnan and narmada had turned into mongols.

i thoroughly enjoyed drs. g's and n's violin music with not a single thought about playing in unison or harmony. i've always enjoyed the violin in carnatic music; it's amazing how well-suited it is. i wonder when the violin was first used in cm.

by Impedimenta Tue May 08, 2012 9:14 pm

talking about DUOs, this pair sound amazing together.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote: i wonder when the violin was first used in cm.

about 200 years ago by mutthuswami dikshitar's nephew, baluswami dikshitar. the story goes that he learned to play it from a visiting european musician and was smitten by it and adapted it to carnatic music. there was no stopping the trend after that.

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed May 09, 2012 12:12 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...singing or playing to create interesting harmonic effects is i suppose never the point of classical music.

did you mean indian classical music? in that case, wdn't it be more correct to say, "...never the point of indian music?"

by FluteHolder Wed May 09, 2012 2:39 am

In this song info about violin's use in CM and some interesting comments about the style/some internals of CM are given in a nice way! Smile

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed May 09, 2012 12:57 pm

FluteHolder wrote:In this song info about violin's use in CM and some interesting comments about the style/some internals of CM are given in a nice way!

thank you, fh.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed May 09, 2012 12:58 pm

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:...singing or playing to create interesting harmonic effects is i suppose never the point of classical music.
did you mean indian classical music? in that case, wdn't it be more correct to say, "...never the point of indian music?"

sorry missed this post. yes of course, that's what i meant. missing the word "indian" was inadvertent.

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