Seva makes daily visits here

by MulaiAzhagi Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:34 pm

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/so-what-is-the-number-of-tamil-alphabets-1136372.htm#1136372

by Kris Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:09 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/so-what-is-the-number-of-tamil-alphabets-1136372.htm#1136372

>>>WTH? Seva is a white conservative!?

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:22 am

Kris wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/so-what-is-the-number-of-tamil-alphabets-1136372.htm#1136372

>>>WTH? Seva is a white conservative!?

You, sir, are on a roll.

by Kris Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:34 am

panini press wrote:
Kris wrote:
MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/so-what-is-the-number-of-tamil-alphabets-1136372.htm#1136372

>>>WTH? Seva is a white conservative!?
You, sir, are on a roll.

>>>> You must appreciate my gumption at daring to be so uppity despite my knowledge that the site may be under close scrutiny by white conservatives, people of other castes, Sonia Gandhi and assorted individuals/groups who think of us we are inferior*

* which I hasten to add, we are.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:51 am

MulaiAzhagi wrote:http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/so-what-is-the-number-of-tamil-alphabets-1136372.htm#1136372

the only "argument" here if that, is in the identification of what one considers to be a separate letter. i have no problems if people want to think of the tamil alphabet as consisting of just 30 letters, but the traditional tamil view is that uyir (vowel or "life") letters and mei (half consonants or the "corpus") letters are counted separately from uyir-mei (full consonants). only seva is capable of conjuring up an argument out of thin air when none exists. other languages employ other ways of classifying their alphabet. why does one expect or (in seva's case) demand conformance for so trivial a thing? வேலை இல்லாத அம்பட்டன் பூனையை பிடிச்சு சரைச்ச கதை.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:58 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida

by Guest Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:09 pm

thank you. now if only members of the jury would kindly make time to understand what an abugida "alphabets system" means.

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Sara,

Looks like you make frequent visits 'there' too..but, don't post there!

Well, looks like it's the worst kept secret..people have feelings here and there..for people here and there..so they peek in:)

Anyways..I did post a reply there to the question about tamil alphabets there (and I really read about it first here Smile

!)

http://www.tamilcube.com/tol/Tamil_online_alphabet_chart.html

*This seems like a nice website..I was actually looking up tamil medical terminology..to refresh my memory (example- "entire- all parts of"- mammary glands in tamil)..and if anyone is curious..type in the words you will find multiple answers:

http://www.dictionary.tamilcube.com/index.aspx

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:23 pm

*Wow..(nice chart...in tamil..the varieties of Jasmine!)

Pavalamalli, Magarantham etc.

http://www.tamilcube.com/res/indian_flowers.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 pm

Maria S wrote:

Anyways..I did post a reply there to the question about tamil alphabets there (and I really read about it first here !)

you say there are many views on this. there are two views, the tamilians who know how many letters there are and seva's. two is not many.

by Hellsangel Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:38 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Maria S wrote:

Anyways..I did post a reply there to the question about tamil alphabets there (and I really read about it first here !)

you say there are many views on this. there are two views, the tamilians who know how many letters there are and seva's. two is not many.

There is a 3rd view - One who takes both views.

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:43 pm

I suppose the term "alphabet" may be annoying to Seva..because Tamil alphabets are unique - with short and long vowels (*if you want to see it that way).

http://www.thetamillanguage.com/tamilsound.html

*On a different note, you are on someone's mind- have left an impression:) To me, that's significant.

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:52 pm

There is a 3rd view - One who takes both views.

__________

In my view..that can be seen as a plus- someone who can look at both sides and come up with a third view..which is required in understanding why a person may interpret something a certain way..

If the objective is simply to take sides..be dismissive of the other view and not worry about how another person may see/interpret it..then, it's not necessary.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Maria S wrote:There is a 3rd view - One who takes both views.

__________

In my view..that can be seen as a plus- someone who can look at both sides and come up with a third view..which is required in understanding why a person may interpret something a certain way..

If the objective is simply to take sides..be dismissive of the other view and not worry about how another person may see/interpret it..then, it's not necessary.

this type of approach is useful in situations where there truly are differences between parties, e.g. differences in political ideology or reconciling two different pictures of the same physical phenomena like the schrodinger and heisenberg pictures of quantum mechanics. but in this case it is an issue of utterly trivial semantics. when it is an issue of semantics the practice is to go with that of the native speakers of the language.

aside: it must be very tiring to be you, i.e. politically correct 100% of the time.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:12 pm

Maria S wrote:

I suppose the term "alphabet" may be annoying to Seva..because Tamil alphabets are unique - with short and long vowels (*if you want to see it that way).

Yes, the term alphabet doesn't quite work with Indic scripts like the Tamil script -- abugida is the technical term used by scholars. I don't know the Tamil script, but based on the explanations Tamil people like you have given, it sounds like each distinct written symbol in Tamil represents a combination of a vowel and a consonant. That is the case in the Telugu and Nagari scripts as well. So the question, "how many letters does the Tamil/Telugu/Nagari alphabet have" is hard to answer precisely. Depends on what the meaning of "letter" is.

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:27 pm

aside: it must be very tiring to be you, i.e. politically correct 100% of the time.

___________

Do you really think that is what I do?

What can I say..I try to be politically correct all the time..that's how it is! I am so exhausted of "being who you think I am"..not sure, if I can make it anymore!

*You will never change too- in the way you interact with me! No surprises there either, it's too predictable!

by Maria S Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:37 pm

panini press wrote:
Maria S wrote:

I suppose the term "alphabet" may be annoying to Seva..because Tamil alphabets are unique - with short and long vowels (*if you want to see it that way).
Yes, the term alphabet doesn't quite work with Indic scripts like the Tamil script -- abugida is the technical term used by scholars. I don't know the Tamil script, but based on the explanations Tamil people like you have given, it sounds like each distinct written symbol in Tamil represents a combination of a vowel and a consonant. That is the case in the Telugu and Nagari scripts as well. So the question, "how many letters does the Tamil/Telugu/Nagari alphabet have" is hard to answer precisely. Depends on what the meaning of "letter" is.

Carvaka,

Thanks. I may not be as articulate as you are..I was simply trying to understand why there may be a problem/perspective from some Non-Tamilians to interpret the vowels-consonants as we do. That's all.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:52 pm

Maria S wrote:

*You will never change too- in the way you interact with me! No surprises there either, it's too predictable!

i have no desire to rile you up or be disrespectful to you as you sometimes seem to imagine. however, on a simple question of counting letters you don't have to twist yourself into pretzels to be nice to seva. look at him, he has simply said that your viewpoint is wrong and your reply to him is that he is "entitled to his views". i wonder why you don't say it like it is --

i.e. there are two different ways of classifying and counting alphabets and we tamilians have chosen to do it in a certain way. we are the native speakers, carriers of our linguistic heritage and your views interesting as they are, are irrelevant to us in this matter. in any case there is no material difference between the two viewpoints.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:26 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote: வேலை இல்லாத அம்பட்டன் பூனையை பிடிச்சு சரைச்ச கதை.

HK,

FYI

you were an ambattan who sent the poonai(cat) on a spin in the dryer.

Evil or Very Mad

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:34 am

வேலை இல்லாத அம்பட்டன் பூனையை பிடிச்சு சரைச்ச கதை

google translation:

"The story caught the cat caraicca unemployed ampattan"

correct translation:

"that guy was an ambattan who sent the poonai(cat) on a spin in the dryer"

correct?

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:41 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:வேலை இல்லாத அம்பட்டன் பூனையை பிடிச்சு சரைச்ச கதை

google translation:

"The story caught the cat caraicca unemployed ampattan"

correct translation:

"that guy was an ambattan who sent the poonai(cat) on a spin in the dryer"

correct?

I think the original saying means "the jobless fella(barber?) tonsured a cat"

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:09 am

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:32 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Maria S wrote:

*You will never change too- in the way you interact with me! No surprises there either, it's too predictable!

i have no desire to rile you up or be disrespectful to you as you sometimes seem to imagine. however, on a simple question of counting letters you don't have to twist yourself into pretzels to be nice to seva. look at him, he has simply said that your viewpoint is wrong and your reply to him is that he is "entitled to his views". i wonder why you don't say it like it is --

i.e. there are two different ways of classifying and counting alphabets and we tamilians have chosen to do it in a certain way. we are the native speakers, carriers of our linguistic heritage and your views interesting as they are, are irrelevant to us in this matter. in any case there is no material difference between the two viewpoints.

So, it has come to this (ellam en ketta neram- my bad time!)..you are now coaching me- how to communicate with Seva!

Let's just say..I go and parrot what you say esp: "we are the native speakers, carriers of our linguistic heritage and your views interesting as they are, are irrelevant to us in this matter."...and then what?I feel like I have a win, and the tamil alphabets are safe again!

*Is it really that hard to understand? Isn't it transparent enough..even for a kid to see?

Yes, I will twist myself to be nice to a friend..let it go, if I want to..go the extra miles..whatever it takes..because in the end..the alphabets will be just fine..and I do care about my friends- how my words and actions may affect them.

Yes- I looked at Seva like you asked me to..and saw an older gentleman, an online friend..who has always been good to me..and did not get personal and say I was wrong (perhaps like me- he was being sensitive and made a statement in general):

"Maria, addressing and counting the combinations of vowels and consonants as separate letters in the alphabet (as some Tamil speakers claim about their language) is wrong and against the general way of describing alphabets in most languages (Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, Gurmukhi, etc.). This has the potential for much confusion and difficulty during the study of languages (linguistically / grammatically).

He is certainly entitled to his views. And Yes, I will let it go!

*Your approach towards people (on line, from what I have seen)..even humor..is quite different from mine..that pic of a cat (photoshopped or not)..is rather sad to me.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:36 am

Maria S wrote:So, it has come to this (ellam en ketta neram- my bad time!)..you are now coaching me- how to communicate with Seva!

Let's just say..I go and parrot what you say esp: "we are the native speakers, carriers of our linguistic heritage and your views interesting as they are, are irrelevant to us in this matter."...and then what?I feel like I have a win, and the tamil alphabets are safe again!

*Is it really that hard to understand? Isn't it transparent enough..even for a kid to see?

Yes, I will twist myself to be nice to a friend..let it go, if I want to..go the extra miles..whatever it takes..because in the end..the alphabets will be just fine..and I do care about my friends- how my words and actions may affect them.

Yes- I looked at Seva like you asked me to..and saw an older gentleman, an online friend..who has always been good to me..and did not get personal and say I was wrong (perhaps like me- he was being sensitive and made a statement in general):

"Maria, addressing and counting the combinations of vowels and consonants as separate letters in the alphabet (as some Tamil speakers claim about their language) is wrong and against the general way of describing alphabets in most languages (Sanskrit, Hindi, Arabic, Gurmukhi, etc.). This has the potential for much confusion and difficulty during the study of languages (linguistically / grammatically).

He is certainly entitled to his views. And Yes, I will let it go!

*Your approach to people..even humor..is quite different from mine..that pic of a cat (photoshopped or not)..is rather sad to me.

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:50 am

Good Morning HK:)

Hope you are doing well.

*Typing all of the above fake stuff made me tired! And I have to somehow go on..

Seriously, I do hope all is well. Am sure you know that we are experiencing a heat wave here..don't feel like going out for the 4th of July activities.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:00 am

Maria S wrote:Good Morning HK:)

Hope you are doing well.

yes i am doing well. thanks for asking.

*Typing all of the above fake stuff made me tired! And I have to somehow go on.

let me feign an LOL here. LOL.

Am sure you know that we are experiencing a heat wave here..don't feel like going out for the 4th of July activities.

i did not know that. though a bit late, monsoons have arrived in kolkata and temperatures are down. hope you get some respite!

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:09 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:let me feign an LOL here. LOL.

an LOL? do you always pronounce that word as L-O-L (letter by letter)?

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:17 am

Thanks.

Nice to know that it's cooler there..hopefully we will have some summer showers here soon..to cool us off too!

I like mangoes..there was a time not too long ago, when we had to go Indian stores far away to find them/mango drinks. Now, it is nice that McDonalds and Burger King everywhere serve Mango smoothies, and they are quite good, have been consuming those calories!

The world has changed indeed.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:18 am

Maria S wrote:..that pic of a cat (photoshopped or not)..is rather sad to me.

what if it is a sphynx cat?

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:27 am

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:let me feign an LOL here. LOL.
an LOL? do you always pronounce that word as L-O-L (letter by letter)?

yes. and so does the world. phrases like "stop LOLing" or "stop ROFLing" are common. there is no phrase as "laughing out louding."

blabberwock wrote:
Maria S wrote:..that pic of a cat (photoshopped or not)..is rather sad to me.

what if it is a sphynx cat?

didn't strike me!

by Jeremiah Mburuburu Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:11 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:let me feign an LOL here. LOL.

an LOL? do you always pronounce that word as L-O-L (letter by letter)?

yes. and so does the world. phrases like "stop LOLing" or "stop ROFLing" are common. there is no phrase as "laughing out louding."

hahahaha. do you actually pronounce "ROFLing" as R-O-F-L-ing? in other words,... excuse me... hahahahaha... as "Are Oh Ef El ing?" so bimaru na.

please seek permission from the head of your joint family, and from charvak and wacker, to pronounce "LOL" and "ROFL" phonetically as ordinary words, "lol" and "rofl," and end the pain you've experienced all these years.

by Guest Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:35 am

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+pronounce+LOL

by Idéfix Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:23 pm

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+pronounce+LOL

LOLu

by Idéfix Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:24 pm

Maria S wrote:Now, it is nice that McDonalds and Burger King everywhere serve Mango smoothies, and they are quite good

Oh wow, I didn't know this. I have to go a McDonalds or Burger King soon then!

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:38 pm

Carvaka,

They are quite good, imo (have to watch the calories!)

Burger King- serves mango smoothies:

http://www.bk.com/en/us/menu-nutrition/lunch-and-dinner-menu-202/real-fruit-smoothies-and-frapp-s-228/bk-tropical-mango-smoothie-m2334/index.html

McDonalds- the Mango smoothies have more pineapple added..but, the mango dominates- the taste.

by Kris Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:53 pm

Maria S wrote:Carvaka,

They are quite good, imo (have to watch the calories!)

Burger King- serves mango smoothies:

http://www.bk.com/en/us/menu-nutrition/lunch-and-dinner-menu-202/real-fruit-smoothies-and-frapp-s-228/bk-tropical-mango-smoothie-m2334/index.html

McDonalds- the Mango smoothies have more pineapple added..but, the mango dominates- the taste.

>>>>Didn't know about the smoothies at McD'd and BK> Need to stop by a BK (can't still see myself inside a McD's Smile

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:09 pm

Kris,

I feel like a marketing person for McD and BK- for their Mango smoothies! I should get some sales commission:D!

You all seem like some fine Connoisseurs from the West Coast! Me am a poor-regular Southern person..go to McDs and BKs quite often- like McD coffee too! (what's the difference you see between them Kris?)

Seriously, am pleasantly surprised that it's available here and everywhere. You should try them..I like them..of course, you may or may not feel the same.

by Kris Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:14 pm

Maria S wrote:Kris,

I feel like a marketing person for McD and BK- for their Mango smoothies! I should get some sales commission:D!

You all seem like some fine Connoisseurs from the West Coast! Me am a poor-regular Southern person..go to McDs and BKs quite often- like McD coffee too! (what's the difference you see between them Kris?)

Seriously, am pleasantly surprised that it's available here. You should try it..I liked it..of course, you may or may not feel the same.

>>>>Don't line the coffee in either one. Like the overpriced coffee (of miscellaneous varieties) at Starbucks, but that's just a habit. I used to like the BK burgers, back in my burger days. Actually, like Carl's Jr burgers even more. My kids seem to go to all of them, but have a preference for 'in and out. Do you have those in the south?

(you got my attention with the smoothies; i told my wife that and her take was maybe they want to take on Jamba Juice Smile

by Maria S Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm

Oh, I see. Mrs. Kris may be right!

Yes, they do have a few In-and-Out restaurants in some Southern States (I think)..have been to one in Tennessee. They are not as many as the Big McD and BK franchises.

*The South has a growing Hispanic population..even our grocery stores are changing quickly to meet the demands..tropical fruits and related items seem to be available more- the variety is nice.

by Kris Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:33 pm

Maria S wrote:Oh, I see. Mrs. Kris may be right!

Yes, they do have a few In-and-Out restaurants in some Southern States (I think)..have been to one in Tennessee. They are not as many as the Big McD and BK franchises.

*The South has a growing Hispanic population..even our grocery stores are changing quickly to meet the demands..tropical fruits and related items seem to be available more- the variety is nice.

>>>Wait till you get the authentic taquerias. One of the benefits of California.

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