Massive power outage(s) in India

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:27 am

...India Shining-O-Shining....

Looks like India is practicing renewed socialism through these massive power outages.

Oh, BTW....it has only thus far affected the Naarth (and East).

by Maria S Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:29 am

I suppose it's a preview/warning of what is to come *(anywhere).

Was just reading some of the comments (someone's misery, is always someone's funnies!) The overwhelming comments were "outsourcing" and paying taxes (July 31) jokes. Looks like outsourcing is firmly associated with India..more than I thought.

by Guest Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:41 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...India Shining-O-Shining....

Looks like India is practicing renewed socialism through these massive power outages.

Oh, BTW....it has only thus far affected the Naarth (and East).

your political orientation is very unclear to me. and that is a surprise for i have been reading your posts since the morning coffee days. you are socialist, communist, utopian, anarchist, trotskyist, stalinist, fabian, democrat, totalitarian, fascist, cynic, sceptic, someyaar, confused or etcetra?

can you spell your political leanings? i am sorry if you *have* earlier and i have not read it.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:44 am

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...India Shining-O-Shining....

Looks like India is practicing renewed socialism through these massive power outages.

Oh, BTW....it has only thus far affected the Naarth (and East).
your political orientation is very unclear to me. and that is a surprise for i have been reading your posts since the morning coffee days. you are socialist, communist, utopian, anarchist, trotskyist, stalinist, democrat, totalitarian, fabian, cynic, sceptic, someyaar, confused or etcetra?

can you spell your political leanings? i am sorry if you *have* earlier and i have not read it.

Upps Unkil's ideology is belittlism, which is the opposite of patriotism. He revels in any dirt he can find on India, anything to pull it down a notch, anything to make him feel better about his own decision to emigrate many years ago.

by MulaiAzhagi Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:02 pm

Great comment (hopefully by an Indian living in India)

2centsjoe 1 comment

you have crackpots in your country who can walk to a store by guns and kill a lot of innocent people.

trust me, i am happy where i am rather get my brown a*** blown off by some white boy who has 'issues'. you can have it and shove it, son.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:22 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Huzefa Kapasi wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:...India Shining-O-Shining....

Looks like India is practicing renewed socialism through these massive power outages.

Oh, BTW....it has only thus far affected the Naarth (and East).
your political orientation is very unclear to me. and that is a surprise for i have been reading your posts since the morning coffee days. you are socialist, communist, utopian, anarchist, trotskyist, stalinist, democrat, totalitarian, fabian, cynic, sceptic, someyaar, confused or etcetra?

can you spell your political leanings? i am sorry if you *have* earlier and i have not read it.

Upps Unkil's ideology is belittlism, which is the opposite of patriotism. He revels in any dirt he can find on ~~India~~ anything, anything to pull it down a notch, anything to make him feel better about his own decision to take Sanyas~~emigrate~~ many years ago.

by indophile Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:44 pm

Unfortunately in India there is no concept of cost-of-service and cost recovery. Everybody thinks electricity is a constitutional right. Politicians meddle in the power sector (free electricity to irrigation pumps, if you come to collect bills you will die, if you cut my power for non-payment I will burn cars and buses and do a fast, dharna, hartal, rasta-roko, and assorted other things). Together with these non-technical woes, they have technical woes like 8-10% losses on high voltage transmission (here it's more like 2-3%), power pilfering, etc.). Then they come up with the bright idea that foreign investment in power is the panacea and offer 16% guaranteed return, and a couple of suckers who bit on it (Cogentrix, Dhabol,....) rue the day they were born.

This was long time coming.

by Idéfix Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:11 pm

indophile wrote:Unfortunately in India there is no concept of cost-of-service and cost recovery. Everybody thinks electricity is a constitutional right. Politicians meddle in the power sector (free electricity to irrigation pumps, if you come to collect bills you will die, if you cut my power for non-payment I will burn cars and buses and do a fast, dharna, hartal, rasta-roko, and assorted other things). Together with these non-technical woes, they have technical woes like 8-10% losses on high voltage transmission (here it's more like 2-3%), power pilfering, etc.). Then they come up with the bright idea that foreign investment in power is the panacea and offer 16% guaranteed return, and a couple of suckers who bit on it (Cogentrix, Dhabol,....) rue the day they were born.

This was long time coming.

I remember reading projections 10 years ago that India would be able to eliminate "load shedding" or scheduled black-outs by 2010. That has not come to be. I wonder what the solution to these electricity woes is. Thinking about it one way, this is the market's way of saying you have to pay for what you consume or there won't be more. But given the political logjam, the long lead-times involved in building generation capacity, and the rising demand from the middle class, I don't see how they can avoid large-scale blackouts in the next few years.

by indophile Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:27 pm

It's really a shame. Power, food, transportation, communications, and human resources are basic for development. In India, while communications is mostly taken care of (everybody has a cell phone) and there's no dearth of human resources/ingenuity, it's the other three that stick out like a sore thumb. None of these is high tech dependent. It' just some political will, educating the public on these issues, heavily punishing corruption, and management skills are all that are needed. All these things need to be done on a war footing. Otherwise, power sector will drag India's development.

Come to think of it. In this country utilities carry about 15-20% extra installed capacity (i.e., 15-20% above projected peak load), and in India the reports say the installed capacity is 20% below the peak load!

by truthbetold Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:01 pm

Indo and pp
You both have sold your souls to rss. You are working wiith forces trying to pull down upa govt? I am asking you are you for upa or bjp? Do you want to help narendra modi as PM?
May be you are brain washed by mahatma anna to think govt should function by rules and work for common man. Such funny ideas cannot be accepted because you cannot change corruption. Don't be foolish. Join the smart join the corrupt join congress. Save secularism.
Oh do you still worry about600 million people without power? Do you know shinde the power minister is promoted to home minister and leader of party in lok sabha. Now go and celebrate?

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:56 pm

panini press wrote:
indophile wrote:Unfortunately in India there is no concept of cost-of-service and cost recovery. Everybody thinks electricity is a constitutional right. Politicians meddle in the power sector (free electricity to irrigation pumps, if you come to collect bills you will die, if you cut my power for non-payment I will burn cars and buses and do a fast, dharna, hartal, rasta-roko, and assorted other things). Together with these non-technical woes, they have technical woes like 8-10% losses on high voltage transmission (here it's more like 2-3%), power pilfering, etc.). Then they come up with the bright idea that foreign investment in power is the panacea and offer 16% guaranteed return, and a couple of suckers who bit on it (Cogentrix, Dhabol,....) rue the day they were born.

This was long time coming.
I remember reading projections 10 years ago that India would be able to eliminate "load shedding" or scheduled black-outs by 2010. That has not come to be. I wonder what the solution to these electricity woes is. Thinking about it one way, this is the market's way of saying you have to pay for what you consume or there won't be more. But given the political logjam, the long lead-times involved in building generation capacity, and the rising demand from the middle class, I don't see how they can avoid large-scale blackouts in the next few years.

Sadly, even the supplyside initiatives rolled out a few years back have now stalled because of coal shortage. The Ultra Mega Power Plants that were supposed to add many thousands of MW of capacity are all now idle at various stages of completion, their captive coal block allocations under cloud following allegations of corruption (based on a leaked CAG report - yeah, the same geniuses who came up with the magical 1.76 lac crore number).

In the current toxic environment in India, nobody wants to stick his neck out and break the logjam for fear of being accused of corruption. Caught between a spineless government, an opportunistic and hypocritical opposition and a middle-class that happily swallows any half-brained Gandhian rhetoric handed out to it - all at a time of a global economic slowdown, this country is going down the tube.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:02 pm

truthbetold wrote:Indo and pp
You both have sold your souls to rss. You are working wiith forces trying to pull down upa govt? I am asking you are you for upa or bjp? Do you want to help narendra modi as PM?
May be you are brain washed by mahatma anna to think govt should function by rules and work for common man. Such funny ideas cannot be accepted because you cannot change corruption. Don't be foolish. Join the smart join the corrupt join congress. Save secularism.
Oh do you still worry about600 million people without power? Do you know shinde the power minister is promoted to home minister and leader of party in lok sabha. Now go and celebrate?

Dear NRI Friend,

Finally, you have shown your true colors. From your subtle putdowns of our Mahatma Anna and members of Team Anna, I always knew you were not an Indian Against Corruption. You were just a UPA mole intent on infilitrating the civil society, all the while cheering for Soniaji and Yuvraj. Now that you have been outed, I urge you to change your ways. Given how the UPA has engineered massive grid collapses to prevent you from being physically present at Jantar Mantar to join Mahatma Anna and us, Team Anna, in our fasts, you can atleast support us morally and financially.

Eschew your criticism of Mahatma Anna's greatness. Start believing. Wire us some money so we can eliminate corruption once again in 2012. Together we can. Jai Hind.

MD
Member of Team Anna

by Idéfix Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:19 am

I don't buy the notion that sensitivity to corruption allegations is what is holding back investment. If politicians and businessmen in India are worried that someone will accuse them of corruption, they can't survive a day in their respective professions.

A big part of the problem is on the demand side: populist politics (yes, the essence of democracy) has created a situation where many people don't think they need to pay for electricity. That can be fixed one of two ways: either get the farmers to pay, or set aside state funds for this subsidy so the transmission companies have enough money to pay for generation. The former takes political courage, and the latter requires facing the facts. The second option may become viable as these world-record blackouts occur.

The problem of "distribution losses" (euphemism for theft) is harder to fix in the state-owned model. I am not sure how many states have privatized distribution yet; that may fix the incentives for reducing pilferage.

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