letters from an indian clerk

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:13 am

don't know who made this film, but it's worth watching if nothing else, but for the brief interviews interspersed throughout the documentary with prof s chandrasekar, a hero of mine. i've always been curious about what he sounded like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OARGZ1xXCxs

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:06 pm

there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

by Guest Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:10 pm

thanks for the link.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:24 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady.

george andrews. he is in the documentary.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:36 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady.

george andrews. he is in the documentary.

Yes.. I saw the whole link.. I must have missed seeing his name on the screen and also could not recollect.

by Kris Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

>>>I just called her on her cell.. she said the divine has a need to average out things Smile

by Kris Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:06 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

>>>>There was one from the late 80's , I think. Mrs. Ramanujan ( Janaki?) asked for a sculpture of R. They came back and made it for her. In the same show, they discussed the inspiration aspect from Namakkal Amman. The prof said basically we all have flashes of brilliance (ok, maybe not us Smile

, its just that Ramanujan basically had them frequently and he had to make sense of it somehow. Given his cultural frame of reference, this is the only way he could make sense of it. The Ramanujans didn't have any children of their own, but Mrs. R had an adopted son, a bank official.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:35 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady.

george andrews. he is in the documentary.

Yes.. I saw the whole link.. I must have missed seeing his name on the screen and also could not recollect.

watch starting at the 28.59 mark. he discusses his work on partition.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:36 pm

Kris wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

>>>>There was one from the late 80's , I think. Mrs. Ramanujan ( Janaki?) asked for a sculpture of R. They came back and made it for her. In the same show, they discussed the inspiration aspect from Namakkal Amman. The prof said basically we all have flashes of brilliance (ok, maybe not us, its just that Ramanujan basically had them frequently and he had to make sense of it somehow. Given his cultural frame of reference, this is the only way he could make sense of it. The Ramanujans didn't have any children of their own, but Mrs. R had an adopted son, a bank official.

An adopted son? I did not know that.

I heard that point too - the bathroom brilliance. What intrigues me is that R was born in Erode, studied Kumbakonam and worked in Madras - and why would he go to Namakkal to seek the Amman's blessing, when he could have gone to Mrs. Partha or Mrs Chakrapani or Sarangapani (in Kumbakonam)? Needs some investigation/research into this historic fact.

It is possible that Namagiri Amman could have disowned me and asked her chief devotee the Big Monkeyman to make something out of me.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady.
george andrews. he is in the documentary.
Yes.. I saw the whole link.. I must have missed seeing his name on the screen and also could not recollect.
watch starting at the 28.59 mark. he discusses his work on partition.

Yes I was intently listening to his explanation and examples that I missed the subtitle.

by Kris Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

>>>>There was one from the late 80's , I think. Mrs. Ramanujan ( Janaki?) asked for a sculpture of R. They came back and made it for her. In the same show, they discussed the inspiration aspect from Namakkal Amman. The prof said basically we all have flashes of brilliance (ok, maybe not us, its just that Ramanujan basically had them frequently and he had to make sense of it somehow. Given his cultural frame of reference, this is the only way he could make sense of it. The Ramanujans didn't have any children of their own, but Mrs. R had an adopted son, a bank official.

An adopted son? I did not know that.

I heard that point too - the bathroom brilliance. What intrigues me is that R was born in Erode, studied Kumbakonam and worked in Madras - and why would he go to Namakkal to seek the Amman's blessing, when he could have gone to Mrs. Partha or Mrs Chakrapani or Sarangapani (in Kumbakonam)? Needs some investigation/research into this historic fact.

It is possible that Namagiri Amman could have disowned me and asked her chief devotee the Big Monkeyman to make something out of me.

>>>> I don't know if he was formally adopted or she just raised him. BTW, Mrs. R. seemed fairly outspoken and even made the point that she was happy about all the attantion, but it woud have been helpful if the gov't had stepped up to the plate when she had really needed it. One of my friends is distantly related to her, but the foster/adopted son story is something I heard somewhere else.

by Guest Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:16 pm

Here's a li'l info abt Janakiammal. If she had gone along with Ramanujan to England, he would've been fed well and his health probably wouldn't have deteriorated so bad. He probably could've lived longer and contributed some more to mathematics. anyway...

Here's what's in the article abt her foster son:

In 1950, one of her friends, Soundaravalli, died
suddenly entrusting her with her 7 year-old son, W. Narayanan.
Janakiammal took up the responsibility of bringing up this boy and became
a foster mother to him. During his school years, she sent him for some years
(1952–55) to the Ramakrishna Mission Boarding School. She educated him
up to the Bachelors Degree in Commerce (B.Com.) of the University of
Madras, in Vivekananda College, Madras, and he became an oﬃcer of the
State Bank of India. Janakiammal conducted the marriage of her foster son
in 1972. The daughter-in-law Videhi was also an employee of the State Bank
of India. Mr. Narayanan resisted transfers and took voluntary retirement
from the Bank in 1988, about 6 years before Janakiammal passed away, to
take care of her health. The Narayanans have a son and two daughters and
the family took good care of Janakiammal and they were an integral part of
her family.

http://www.imsc.res.in/~rao/ramanujan/newnow/janaki.pdf

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:41 pm

kinnera wrote:Here's a li'l info abt Janakiammal. If she had gone along with Ramanujan to England, he would've been fed well and his health probably wouldn't have deteriorated so bad. He probably could've lived longer and contributed some more to mathematics. anyway...

Here's what's in the article abt her foster son:

In 1950, one of her friends, Soundaravalli, died
suddenly entrusting her with her 7 year-old son, W. Narayanan.
Janakiammal took up the responsibility of bringing up this boy and became
a foster mother to him. During his school years, she sent him for some years
(1952–55) to the Ramakrishna Mission Boarding School. She educated him
up to the Bachelors Degree in Commerce (B.Com.) of the University of
Madras, in Vivekananda College, Madras, and he became an oﬃcer of the
State Bank of India. Janakiammal conducted the marriage of her foster son
in 1972. The daughter-in-law Videhi was also an employee of the State Bank
of India. Mr. Narayanan resisted transfers and took voluntary retirement
from the Bank in 1988, about 6 years before Janakiammal passed away, to
take care of her health. The Narayanans have a son and two daughters and
the family took good care of Janakiammal and they were an integral part of
her family.

http://www.imsc.res.in/~rao/ramanujan/newnow/janaki.pdf

That is nice and just imagining a young 22 yr old widow living alone till her death at close to 100.... and what are the chances of that happening now....(changing times).

Of course, I am not so sure if Janakiammal could have done much better if she had accompanied him to London. Wonder if there was "pacharisi" (rice), Dal, curry powder, grinders, stone idly grinders, etc.... Things did not change until much much later from 40s. Hardly any Indian went to UK and UK was not exposed to any oriental or Desi foods. BTW, there was no online ordering either at that time... Razz

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:51 pm

there is actually more information on how he lived his life in cambridge in kanigel's book. apparently if he hadn't fallen sick he might have managed just fine. there is a story in kanigel's book about mahalanobis the indian statistician, who was also a student at the same time at cambridge going to R's rooms and being treated to a tasty dish of pongal that R had whipped up.

by Kris Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:37 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there is actually more information on how he lived his life in cambridge in kanigel's book. apparently if he hadn't fallen sick he might have managed just fine. there is a story in kanigel's book about mahalanobis the indian statistician, who was also a student at the same time at cambridge going to R's rooms and being treated to a tasty dish of pongal that R had whipped up.

>>>> I don't know if this was something I read in kanigel's book or elsewhere, but apparently he had some difficulty getting food items during the ww1 years and that may have contributed to his health issues.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there is actually more information on how he lived his life in cambridge in kanigel's book. apparently if he hadn't fallen sick he might have managed just fine. there is a story in kanigel's book about mahalanobis the indian statistician, who was also a student at the same time at cambridge going to R's rooms and being treated to a tasty dish of pongal that R had whipped up.

>>>> I don't know if this was something I read in kanigel's book or elsewhere, but apparently he had some difficulty getting food items during the ww1 years and that may have contributed to his health issues.

The problem with him was not just vegetarian...but also Acharam. If he had been just a little bit flexible, he could have managed with milk, curd, rice, bread, jam, etc...but quite a few veggies are also anti-bake stuffs.

For math there was Ramanujan, For music there is MAX, and for everything else there is Saamiyaar... Wink

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:06 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

Same place, same goddess, different times, opposite outcomes...ah the jokes these goddesses play.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:10 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are also interviews with his widow. in one instance during the interviews, you can hear chandra asking her in tamil, "did he not desire returning to england?" (marubadiyum england poNumnnu asai padalliyA?)

I remember seeing on some program in the 90s this Penn State Prof getting some more of Ramanujan's unrevealed papers from the old lady. Also, MK paying tributes to her and some reward a few years before she died.

They should have at least showed the Namagiri Amman (Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy) temple tower once, that too when credited everything to her.

He went to the temple once and she gave all these formulas in his dream....and I have visited her so many ,many times and yet she never bothered to give me a triple digit IQ or reveal any knowledge... hm.. Need to complain to her next time I see her

P.S. I was born in Namakkal.

Same place, same goddess, different times, opposite outcomes...ah the jokes these goddesses play.

Yeah... I know... like Kris pointed out...perhaps Amman's way of proving the law of averages.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:13 am

Haha..just saw that.

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