Re: elementary school?

by truthbetold Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:02 pm

On this forum, max pushed gun control discussion more than anyone. It is that kind of extra effort that is required to turn the tide.
This incident involves very young children. There is a possibility nation may react strongly and push gun control to the fore. This tragedy could propel serious action by ordinary citizen.
Have faith and participate in your local area people's action. Remember extra effort for those innocent children.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:44 pm

nevada wrote:If Obama talks about gun control, he will be accused of politicizing a sensitive issue. And he is getting ripped for saying that this is not the time to talk about it. This is a no-win situation for him.

then so be it. it is after all a political issue. the republicans and the NRA have made it so. we have to fight them tooth and nail. pour money into pro gun control lobbies and organizations, get in the politicians faces relentlessly. no win? what on earth are you smoking? he won the election and he doesn't have to give one single campaign speech. EVER. and those of us who donated to his campaign and voted for him and helped spread the message have to make sure this is front and center on this president's agenda. i find myself unable to do anything other than think of those innocent little children.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:49 pm

there are always mentally unbalanced people. there is zero benefit to be had focusing on them. the real murderers here are the gun lobby and the NRA.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:21 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are always mentally unbalanced people. there is zero benefit to be had focusing on them. the real murderers here are the gun lobby and the NRA.

You forgot to add the word 'politically' next to benefit. You're welcome

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:35 am

Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are always mentally unbalanced people. there is zero benefit to be had focusing on them. the real murderers here are the gun lobby and the NRA.

You forgot to add the word 'politically' next to benefit. You're welcome

if 20 dead 5 to 10 year old kids don't cure cynicism about gun control, i don't think anything will. that's ok, i am sure there are enough minds that will change.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 am

and it's a little difficult to hear preaching about mental healthcare whenever incidents like this occur, from the same side that fought the president tooth and nail on healthcare. so please, enough with the moralizing.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:46 am

truthbetold wrote:Stunning incident.
Demanding gun control is like touching a live wire for politicians. Democrats gave upnon that demand to slow down nra lobby. Now there is no political will to raise gun control issue.

People in usa can benpursuaded to change. Ex: several years ago gay marriage was considered a fringe issue. But discussions over last few decades changed enough americans to make it a main stream issue. In some polls majority of americans support legalizing gay marriage. If americans can change on sensitive issue like gay marriage, there is hope for gun control.

Hysteria aside, there was a stat by someone who studied mass murder on NPR yesterday that ppl need to pay attention to and not the shrill opportunists here and elsewhere: 250 ppl annually die in mass murders and that has been steady for past 60 or so years sine they have been keeping stats...no noticeable increase or decrease. Compare that to 15000 deaths in one-on-one crime and you'll see why these gun control advocates are wrong when they offer up gun control as the way to address violence. It's called low hanging fruit and will do nothing other than reduce a few events that media deems newsworthy, IF THAT. They don't care abt the guy that stabs his girlfriend, the woman that kills her kids, the kids that die from neglect etc: no, they'll say those crazies will always exist, don't worry abt them. They just want the news grabbing events to stop. Cynical? Yes but no more than the political opportunists.

by Propagandhi711 Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:54 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:there are always mentally unbalanced people. there is zero benefit to be had focusing on them. the real murderers here are the gun lobby and the NRA.

You forgot to add the word 'politically' next to benefit. You're welcome

if 20 dead 5 to 10 year old kids don't cure cynicism about gun control, i don't think anything will. that's ok, i am sure there are enough minds that will change.

No, cynicism is being the first to raise outrage at a mass murder only to claim political mileage and throwing in some sympathy as an after thought.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Stunning incident.
Demanding gun control is like touching a live wire for politicians. Democrats gave upnon that demand to slow down nra lobby. Now there is no political will to raise gun control issue.

People in usa can benpursuaded to change. Ex: several years ago gay marriage was considered a fringe issue. But discussions over last few decades changed enough americans to make it a main stream issue. In some polls majority of americans support legalizing gay marriage. If americans can change on sensitive issue like gay marriage, there is hope for gun control.

Hysteria aside, there was a stat by someone who studied mass murder on NPR yesterday that ppl need to pay attention to and not the shrill opportunists here and elsewhere: 250 ppl annually die in mass murders and that has been steady for past 60 or so years sine they have been keeping stats...no noticeable increase or decrease. Compare that to 15000 deaths in one-on-one crime and you'll see why these gun control advocates are wrong when they offer up gun control as the way to address violence. It's called low hanging fruit and will do nothing other than reduce a few events that media deems newsworthy, IF THAT. They don't care abt the guy that stabs his girlfriend, the woman that kills her kids, the kids that die from neglect etc: no, they'll say those crazies will always exist, don't worry abt them. They just want the news grabbing events to stop. Cynical? Yes but no more than the political opportunists.

Hmmm! so disappointed, I was expecting traffic related deaths stat somewhere in there.

by Idéfix Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:55 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:250 ppl annually die in mass murders and that has been steady for past 60 or so years sine they have been keeping stats...no noticeable increase or decrease. Compare that to 15000 deaths in one-on-one crime and you'll see why these gun control advocates are wrong when they offer up gun control as the way to address violence.

This is a false choice. Guns make it very easy for criminals to kill people. Be that one-on-one crime or mass shootings. Better control on who gets to buy guns will reduce both types of violence. If you want evidence that lax gun control is correlated with one-on-one, compare murder rates across the industrialized economies. Most of those murders are one-on-one.

by confuzzled dude Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:07 pm

panini press wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:250 ppl annually die in mass murders and that has been steady for past 60 or so years sine they have been keeping stats...no noticeable increase or decrease. Compare that to 15000 deaths in one-on-one crime and you'll see why these gun control advocates are wrong when they offer up gun control as the way to address violence.
This is a false choice. Guns make it very easy for criminals to kill people. Be that one-on-one crime or mass shootings. Better control on who gets to buy guns will reduce both types of violence. If you want evidence that lax gun control is correlated with one-on-one, compare murder rates across the industrialized economies. Most of those murders are one-on-one.

exactly, I wonder how many of those 15,000 are bystanders; warmongers that they're, they don't care, they're so used to killing 100s of thousands of innocent civilians across the world.

by Rishi Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:56 pm

The mother was an avid gun collector, kept the arsenal in the house and took her mentally disturbed son to shooting ranges.

What was she thinking?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:46 pm

yeah none of her legally acquired guns protected her. in fact she died because of one of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:50 pm

IMO gun ownership and mental instability are two sides of the same coin.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:34 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-do-we-have-the-courage-to-stop-this.html?ref=global-home

by Rishi Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:46 pm

But for many of those on Yogananda Street, where the Lanzas lived and where the police had cordoned off much of the block on Saturday, the recollections about Ms. Lanza were incomplete.

Ironic.

Yoga and meditation would have certainly helped both the mother and son.

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