There's an old saying in business: amateurs copy, geniuses
steal.




Listen 0: 23 - 0:45 music director – Kishore kumar – 1971

Now

Listen @ 0:09 -0:20 music director – Ilayaraja – 1978

That was in 1978. Now, the latest one of Ilaya Raja 2012 Neethane en ponvasantham

Listen @ 0:46- 0 :53 cresendo/interlude transitioning 1:05.
Also listen to the other interlude starting at 1:36 onward (coincidentally also
at 1:36 in the one below of BeeGees)

]Now Bee Gees Tragedy from 1979: Listen @ 0:53-1:03 cresendo/interlude
transitioning 1:18. Also compare the other
interlude 1:36 ( coincidentally also in the above at 1:36) and 3:13

and

Tragically, this is from the man who says @ 33:45 to 34:38 (BELOW)
that he’d never do two songs alike and always refused when directors asked him to do so (@34:22 to 34:35) In this




But what is so bizarre is in the same show (above), listen @at 48:16
thru 48:27-48:40 where he gives you a tune and

compare that with the one below from the movie Shagird (1967) @ 0:13 to 0:26



Take a listen @ 0:13 to 0:26 in

Interestingly, his mentor was GK Venkatesh, music director well known in Kannada films who routinely used to alter speed/tempo a trifle or lift direct. As he does here in a 1971 tamil film Sabatham. Give it a listen in the Tamil one below @ 0:18 to 0:35



and compare it with
the same Shagird above @ 0:14 – 0:30 . Clever speed variation there.
Further convincing here, the tempo etc.,:
In the Tamil one listen @1:50 -2:00 and compare again with the Hindi film Shagird above @ 1:38 -1:58.

Now, onto the one that got a national award where Ilayaraja scored the music
Chronologically speaking : GK Venkatesh lifted “nee bandhu ninthaaga…” –Kasturi Nivasa (1971)from SD Burman’s” Yeh Dil Deewana Hai..” of Ishq Par Zor Nahin(1970) -



Give it a listen from 0:31 to say 0:55

Now compare that with the SD Burman’s 1970 song below right from
the start 0:00 to 0:32



listen to the direct Lift 1:22 to 2:00 in kannda from the Hindi original above 0:50 to 1:33

This did not stop there but was replayed by Ilaya Raja in 1991 Tamil film Thevar magan
“inji iduppazhaghi…” listen starting at 0:06 with a clever increase in speed/tempo 1:03 to rest of the song -below



And of course it completed one full cycle back to Hindi in “Payalein
Chunmun Chunmun…” in the film Virasat (1997) <font color="black">Old habits die hard and it is difficult even for isaignani to unlearn

Gk,
That requires a lot of research. Did you do it by yourself? Or did you get some help?

truthbetold wrote:Gk,
That requires a lot of research. Did you do it by yourself? Or did you get some help?

mea culpa sir.. Its all totally yours truly, of course much to the chagrin of the family ! I have very many in the recycled list of Ilayaraja..when I get time, I shall post them

i did feel cheated when i listened to this piece

bw wrote:i did feel cheated when i listened to this piece

entha poovilum vasam undu? if he must copy, at least he has good taste.

GK: velai illatha ambattan etc.. thanks for ruining my evening.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:i did feel cheated when i listened to this piece

entha poovilum vasam undu? if he must copy, at least he has good taste.

GK: velai illatha ambattan etc.. thanks for ruining my evening.

I suspected so much…I am sorry – I apologize Max !
I felt betrayed, the same way, many years ago
To quote Naipaul :
I suffered with him…and I was surprised by the rise within myself of that deep anger which unhinges judgment and almost physically limits vision.. the moment of anger is a moment of exhalted shrinking lucidity from which the recovery is slow and shattering..

Never joined the fan club.

( haha u too Raja sir)

Iss duniya mein aisa koi banda nahi hai jo nakal nahi karta hai...

Bindaas karo...nakal karo aakal ke saath...

Im immune to copycats...sirf aadi manav were originals...rest of us..copy,steal and reproduce.



edit- bw - can pls post the tamil song? i guess it's indha poovilum vasam undu..something like that..

edit 2- got it..

Rekz wrote: haha u too Raja sir)

Iss duniya mein aisa koi banda nahi hai jo nakal nahi karta hai...

Bindaas karo...nakal karo aakal ke saath...

Im immune to copycats...sirf aadi manav were originals...rest of us..copy,steal and reproduce.

ippadiyum vaazhalaam
ippadiththaan vazhavaendum
eppadiyum vaazhalaam

dhooL paNreenga rekz akkOv ! puththaandu vaazhthukkal!

garam_kuta wrote:

Rekz wrote: haha u too Raja sir)

Iss duniya mein aisa koi banda nahi hai jo nakal nahi karta hai...

Bindaas karo...nakal karo aakal ke saath...

Im immune to copycats...sirf aadi manav were originals...rest of us..copy,steal and reproduce.

ippadiyum vaazhalaam
ippadiththaan vazhavaendum
eppadiyum vaazhalaam

dhooL paNreenga rekz akkOv ! puththaandu vaazhthukkal!

Nandri GK wish u the same.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

bw wrote:i did feel cheated when i listened to this piece

entha poovilum vasam undu? if he must copy, at least he has good taste.

GK: velai illatha ambattan etc.. thanks for ruining my evening.

Interesting . I think Ilayaraja was composing around 100 songs (more or less) per year during the peak of his career in the 80s. It is ok if he has stolen a little. we can cut him some slack.

Ilayaraja is one of the great Indian music composers of all time..but, genius? And Geniuses are overrated anyway!

Speaking of copying and imitations..even your saying in business is a modified copy of many other sayings and quotes:D..like this one from T.S. Eliot which applies to all forms of art: “Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.”

Like any composer, Ilayaraja's range of compositions-includes original and borrowed parts..some are great, some are ok, some are bad..can't listen to some after one time! Same like Rahman - his "Oscar" winning, "Grammy" winning- "Jai Ho"..is so mediocre, imo (compared to many of his other compos)..I would give it only 1 star/5! And my taste is often pedestrian(!)..what appeals to the "ordinary masses", usually appeals to me..and Jai Ho is an exception!

Anyways..some Ilayaraja's compositions are superb with great variety..hard to pick, but, here are a few I like-all starring Kamal and Sridevi and easy to see..how great-versatile they are too and enhance the experience of listening to his music!