khap panchayats support merlot's pov

by truthbetold Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:21 pm

[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

by Rishi Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Khap panchayat is a disgrace. It goes against the very idea of individual rights.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:18 pm

truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Haha. Unkil, since we are now in the business of making up things, why stop with just khap panchayats? Here are some more story ideas for you:
1. Delhi gang-rapists agree wholeheartedly with Merlot
2. Sandy Hook gunman's last words were "Merlot is right"
3. NRA spokesman hails Merlot's opinions
4. Maoists express solidarity with Merlot
5. Taliban says Merlot's path is the path of the righteous
6. Drug dealers approve of Merlot's message
7. Miscellaneous hos proclaim Merlot da man
8. Baby-killers and puppy-kickers endorse Merlot
9. Lunatics embrace Merlot's words

And lest I forget:
10. Pol Pot and Hiranyakashipu issue posthumous statement appointing Merlot their true successor

by truthbetold Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:12 pm

Idiot merlot uncle,
i will not waste my time on diversionsry nonsense spouted by you except for lines:
9. Lunatics embrace merlot's words.
5. Needed to be reworded to be accurate: merlot says taliban's path is the path of the righteous.
Now few more facts you know but refuse to admit:
A. Merlot is an apologist of pakistan terrorists.
B. Merlot believes sonia and mms cannot be criticized because of their so called secular credentials( muslim pandering).
c. Merlot thinks those who loot india through corrupt practices are not the problem but any one who protests against corruption is anti india.
More later.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:37 am

truthbetold wrote:Idiot merlot uncle,
i will not waste my time on diversionsry nonsense spouted by you except for lines:
9. Lunatics embrace merlot's words.
5. Needed to be reworded to be accurate: merlot says taliban's path is the path of the righteous.
Now few more facts you know but refuse to admit:
A. Merlot is an apologist of pakistan terrorists.
B. Merlot believes sonia and mms cannot be criticized because of their so called secular credentials( muslim pandering).
c. Merlot thinks those who loot india through corrupt practices are not the problem but any one who protests against corruption is anti india.
More later.

Ok, let me help you construct a complete picture of me:
Merlot: Patron saint of gang-rapists, Paki terrorists, Taliban, Maoists, corrupt looters, fakularists and Muslim-pandering Congoons.

You like?

by Motor_Mouth Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:41 am

truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Do you think capital punishment is a solution? Wouldn't that encourage criminals to commit murder as well after the deed is done? Today they may spare her life, but if you want to hang them just for raping, they might as well murder the victim. What worse can happen to them?

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:48 pm

Motor_Mouth wrote:
truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Do you think capital punishment is a solution? Wouldn't that encourage criminals to commit murder as well after the deed is done? Today they may spare her life, but if you want to hang them just for raping, they might as well murder the victim. What worse can happen to them?

Pure conjecture. Establish possible death sentence for Gang rapes through a fast court with no mercy petitions.

If it did not work, the judge can always not award the death sentence. Instead of suggesting CONCERETE ways to put fear in the minds of rapists, talking about rapists rights, false accusations, etc... only encourage the Rapists view that "they can easily get away with this crime."

by confuzzled dude Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:20 pm

Not sure of Khaps motive but there are several incidents where SC/ST act were misused (just like POTA was) . Death penalty for rape! this is another extreme, may be inspired by our pieceful neighbors.

by confuzzled dude Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
And lest I forget:
10. Pol Pot and Hiranyakashipu issue posthumous statement appointing Merlot their true successor

How can you exclude Nagas, oh! my bad, You're a Naga.

by truthbetold Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:32 pm

Cd,
your claim is that sc/st law was misused in several cases. Do you have any numbers? What is the impact of such cases of misuse? Has it led to a sc/st led atrocities?

The power between sc/st and other castes is very assymetrically biased against sc/st castes. At national level the domination, exploitation and physical attacks have not been reduced. The assymytry of power balance is such that even such biased laws will fail to protect the weaker sections. Raising thebogey of misuse is a political tool used to prevent action.

by truthbetold Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:44 pm

Motor-mouth,
Which poster are you?
I have stated that in this particular case i support death sentence. The physical voilence perpetuated on the girl resulted in her death or murder to be more accurate. The perpetrators also used inanimate objects to hurt the girl. They also stripped her and threw her from a moving bus on to a cold delhi.night.
I will respond to your conjecture that death sentence as an encouragement for murder after your response to my following question?
Do you agree that delhi gang rape is a fit case to demand death sentence or not?
if no, why? Are you against death sentence in any case? Are you opposed death sentence to rapists only?

by confuzzled dude Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:23 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd,
your claim is that sc/st law was misused in several cases. Do you have any numbers? What is the impact of such cases of misuse? Has it led to a sc/st led atrocities?

The power between sc/st and other castes is very assymetrically biased against sc/st castes. At national level the domination, exploitation and physical attacks have not been reduced. The assymytry of power balance is such that even such biased laws will fail to protect the weaker sections. Raising thebogey of misuse is a political tool used to prevent action.

It resulted into arresting innocent(s), is that not good enough or do you think it is okay for an innocent upper caste person to suffer, as it somehow justifies the atrocities committed by other upper caste folks. Anyway, my point was different, enacting new laws based on an isolated incident may not be such a bright idea.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:30 pm

truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Without appearing to be seen backing the "khap" view, there is always the possibility that the trial of the accused might not be fair, including even the admission of guilt (by the “accused”) could have been coerced. Thus passing of death sentence quickly (without lengthy and fair trial) against the accused could send some innocent people to their deaths.

by Guest Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 pm

truthbetold wrote:Motor-mouth,
Which poster are you?
I have stated that in this particular case i support death sentence. The physical voilence perpetuated on the girl resulted in her death or murder to be more accurate. The perpetrators also used inanimate objects to hurt the girl. They also stripped her and threw her from a moving bus on to a cold delhi.night.
I will respond to your conjecture that death sentence as an encouragement for murder after your response to my following question?
Do you agree that delhi gang rape is a fit case to demand death sentence or not?
if no, why? Are you against death sentence in any case? Are you opposed death sentence to rapists only?

i also agree that in this case death penalty is the most appropriate punishment. But, in general, chemical castration would in my opinion suffice the demands of justice for perpetrators of rape.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Motor-mouth,
Which poster are you?
I have stated that in this particular case i support death sentence. The physical voilence perpetuated on the girl resulted in her death or murder to be more accurate. The perpetrators also used inanimate objects to hurt the girl. They also stripped her and threw her from a moving bus on to a cold delhi.night.
I will respond to your conjecture that death sentence as an encouragement for murder after your response to my following question?
Do you agree that delhi gang rape is a fit case to demand death sentence or not?
if no, why? Are you against death sentence in any case? Are you opposed death sentence to rapists only?

i also agree that in this case death penalty is the most appropriate punishment. But, in general, chemical castration would in my opinion suffice the demands of justice for perpetrators of rape.

The death penalty should be an option - to be applied only in the rarest of rare cases. Some examples are gangrape, raping of children, handicapped, mentally handicapped (the bombay train rape), etc... the criteria can be include other reasons just like death penalty for murder has several roadblocks.

For all other rapes chemical castration - which is reversible, and easily monitored and controlled - for probationary periods should be the norm.

It is for the lawmakers and experts to take into account marital rapes, rape of married women by other in-laws, abuse of young girls by uncles, etc..etc.. These are very tricky and abuseable by "victims" and death sentence may not be awarded in such cases.

But, there should be legal way to put fear in the minds of rapists.

by confuzzled dude Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:27 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

The death penalty should be an option - to be applied only in the rarest of rare cases. Some examples are gangrape, raping of children, handicapped, mentally handicapped (the bombay train rape), etc... the criteria can be include other reasons just like death penalty for murder has several roadblocks.

For all other rapes chemical castration - which is reversible, and easily monitored and controlled - for probationary periods should be the norm.

It is for the lawmakers and experts to take into account marital rapes, rape of married women by other in-laws, abuse of young girls by uncles, etc..etc.. These are very tricky and abuseable by "victims" and death sentence may not be awarded in such cases.

But, there should be legal way to put fear in the minds of rapists.

How is that working out for murder crimes?

by truthbetold Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:53 pm

Cd,
in india traffic laws are misused to harass middle class people.
I do not like bothering innocent people but in a country full of atrocities on sc/st, it is difficult for me to shed tears for the arrested ones. It is not because i do not sympathise the innocents but i emptied my eyes for.the endless stream of victims of brutality that is still wide spread in india.

by artood2 Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:04 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd,
in india traffic laws are misused to harass middle class people.
I do not like bothering innocent people but in a country full of atrocities on sc/st, it is difficult for me to shed tears for the arrested ones. It is not because i do not sympathise the innocents but i emptied my eyes for.the endless stream of victims of brutality that is still wide spread in india.

that is precisely the reason why a law should be well thought of before enactment. Once it is passed the innocents do not get too much attention and blatant misuse becomes yet another weapon in the armor of our formidable cop-dom.

by truthbetold Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:12 pm

I am not sure a modern society can consider a punishment like chemical castration. As a civilized nation india punishes convicted ppersons with different periods of jail time. While protesters called for castration, it is not a legal option for a civilized society.

The delhi gang rape perpetrators deserve death sentence. That should not mean every convicted rapists must be killed. Modern civil societies cannot kill criminals for evrry rape.
The law has to provide for money topolice and investigate, prosecute and win convictions.
Convicted persons must be given long and hard labor and a real 115 to 20 year jail sentence.
Such sentence must be extended to death sentence when rape involvves, voilence, long term physical damage, revenge or power types of reasons.

by artood2 Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:36 pm

truthbetold wrote:I am not sure a modern society can consider a punishment like chemical castration. As a civilized nation india punishes convicted ppersons with different periods of jail time. While protesters called for castration, it is not a legal option for a civilized society.

The delhi gang rape perpetrators deserve death sentence. That should not mean every convicted rapists must be killed. Modern civil societies cannot kill criminals for evrry rape.
The law has to provide for money topolice and investigate, prosecute and win convictions.
Convicted persons must be given long and hard labor and a real 115 to 20 year jail sentence.
Such sentence must be extended to death sentence when rape involvves, voilence, long term physical damage, revenge or power types of reasons.

Many modern societies have done away with capital punishment as well. The Delhi rapists would get charged with murder so capital punishment is still a possibility for it. The conviction rate is not going to improve with the change in law. There are enough laws related to bestiality, sodomy and rape that can make up for a stern punishment.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:03 am

artood2 wrote:
truthbetold wrote:I am not sure a modern society can consider a punishment like chemical castration. As a civilized nation india punishes convicted ppersons with different periods of jail time. While protesters called for castration, it is not a legal option for a civilized society.

The delhi gang rape perpetrators deserve death sentence. That should not mean every convicted rapists must be killed. Modern civil societies cannot kill criminals for evrry rape.
The law has to provide for money topolice and investigate, prosecute and win convictions.
Convicted persons must be given long and hard labor and a real 115 to 20 year jail sentence.
Such sentence must be extended to death sentence when rape involvves, voilence, long term physical damage, revenge or power types of reasons.

Many modern societies have done away with capital punishment as well. The Delhi rapists would get charged with murder so capital punishment is still a possibility for it. The conviction rate is not going to improve with the change in law. There are enough laws related to bestiality, sodomy and rape that can make up for a stern punishment.

The masses at India Gate are demanding stronger laws and death penalty for rape. Even the political parties are discussing new, stronger laws. The masses have spoken. And in a democracy, the masses are always right. You are fighting the essence of democracy. You only care for rapists and not for the victims. Your bleeding heart liberal sophistry won't fool us, no saar.

by Motor_Mouth Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:40 am

truthbetold wrote:Motor-mouth,
Which poster are you?
I have stated that in this particular case i support death sentence. The physical voilence perpetuated on the girl resulted in her death or murder to be more accurate. The perpetrators also used inanimate objects to hurt the girl. They also stripped her and threw her from a moving bus on to a cold delhi.night.
I will respond to your conjecture that death sentence as an encouragement for murder after your response to my following question?
Do you agree that delhi gang rape is a fit case to demand death sentence or not?
if no, why? Are you against death sentence in any case? Are you opposed death sentence to rapists only?

I am of the opinion that first time offenders should be given one more chance. And repeat offenders should be given death sentence and death sentence only. This, of course, does not apply to mass murderers and terrorists.

Now, do you think capital punishment for rapists (all of them) will result in under reporting of crime? Rapist, while he is thinking with his organ, will only want to achieve orgasm and not even think about the possible death penalty. But the moment he experiences orgasm, he will stop thinking with his organ and use his brain. And then he will threaten the victim not to go to police if she wants to be alive. Remember, he is going to be hanged in any case so he might as well use the threat (and act on it) to get out.

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:39 am

India’s rape laws seem quite fuzzy. I heard that a number of politicians accused and charged of raping women are sitting in the Parliament as MPs and in state assemblies as MLAs etc., and probably holding positions as ministers. What about such cases – are those MPs etc. going to be kicked out of the Parliament…?

Moreover, the accused in this latest episode (gang rape) were apprehended rather quickly, which seems to raise questions (considering no lawyer is willing to defend them) if these are genuine arrests and confessions, or just a whole thing / show to calm the public through quick arrests and speedy trial?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:48 pm

truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Are you suggesting that Merlot is the president of the S- :joker:CH Khap Panchayat?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 pm

How come this didn't show up in my previous post?

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:21 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Are you suggesting that Merlot is the president of the S- :joker:CH Khap Panchayat?

Unkil, I take offence. As Hiranyakashipu, I lord over all three worlds. A teeny weeny khap panchayat has no option but to echo my words. Why should you even get any doubts about this?

by Guest Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:22 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
truthbetold wrote:[justify] http://www.deccanchronicle.com/121231/news-current-affairs/article/khaps-against-death-penalty-rapists
merlot's point of view that rapists should not be awarded death penalty is supported by khap panchayats. It was pointed that there were 20 gang rape cases currently in process in haryana and panchayats are worried about the rapists involved.

Read the news item. Merlot did a good job of spreading word around. Long live the counter revolution.

Are you suggesting that Merlot is the president of the S- :joker:CH Khap Panchayat?

Unkil, I take offence. As Hiranyakashipu, I lord over all three worlds. A teeny weeny khap panchayat has no option but to echo my words. Why should you even get any doubts about this?

Merlot what is the story behind you and the Nagas that sandilya keeps referring to?

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:26 pm

I'd once posted a pic of naked Nagas smoking pot at the Kumbh. That seemed to excite Vakavaka Unkil tremendously. Since then, he calls me a Naga.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:57 pm

Nagas became a metaphor for your view of Shiva linga!

They came alive during your scholarly debate with Seva when a column of fire and a lingam stuck in the mud were settling scores.

by truthbetold Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:48 pm

India has enough safe guards to protect against over zealous laws. If one slips through the cracks, courts will strike it down.

There are laws against rape but i was told the evidentiary burden is on the women and weak willed prosecution. Public outcry in recent weeks will improve that part of the law and also makes it tough for judiciary to be lenient to rapists.

Motor mouth,
Any scenario is possible. The question is how probable it is? The fear of criminal's behaviour cannot be the determining factor in deciding the punishment. While all anglez must be probed and understood, best laws are those when approved and implemented " they should deter the criminal from committing the crime. Easier said than done.

by artood2 Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:00 am

truthbetold wrote:India has enough safe guards to protect against over zealous laws. If one slips through the cracks, courts will strike it down.

There are laws against rape but i was told the evidentiary burden is on the women and weak willed prosecution. Public outcry in recent weeks will improve that part of the law and also makes it tough for judiciary to be lenient to rapists.

Motor mouth,
Any scenario is possible. The question is how probable it is? The fear of criminal's behaviour cannot be the determining factor in deciding the punishment. While all anglez must be probed and understood, best laws are those when approved and implemented " they should deter the criminal from committing the crime. Easier said than done.

No there are not enough safe guards from over zealous laws. If the problem is evidentiary burden on the prosecution then changing it to death penalty is not going to help. If you remove the evidentiary burden then you are allowing corrupt cops to lock up anyone on false pretext and possibly sentenced to death.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:10 am

Are you aware of any indian law that is causing problems to rich and powerful? Do cops cause problems to rich and powerful?

Indian courts have on many occasions struck down laws that cause problems to societies elite. If you feel otherwise, further discussion needs facts. Please state the law that is bothering you and evidence of its widedpread misuse.

by artood2 Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:25 am

truthbetold wrote:Are you aware of any indian law that is causing problems to rich and powerful? Do cops cause problems to rich and powerful?

Indian courts have on many occasions struck down laws that cause problems to societies elite. If you feel otherwise, further discussion needs facts. Please state the law that is bothering you and evidence of its widedpread misuse.

- Indian courts cannot throw out laws just like that. Their powers are not the same as US supreme court. Can you give example of any two laws that were struck down. They can only work on "overreaching".

- Laws like POTA (and before that TADA) have been routinely exploited by police. You hear of it only when someone like Sanjay Dutt is involved. Very often it is used as threats.

- You never want to give a corrupt law enforcement more teeth than it needs. The current laws are sufficient. A willing officer can always gather sufficient evidence for prosecution and conviction. An unwilling officer would not do it however you change the law.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:01 am

Pota and tada are draconian. They are political strategies. They are used against poor and radical elements. The govt was deliberate in cresting and implementing these laws. They were working as they are designed. Police are, in my opinion, using these laws as intended.
Change in such laws can come through public awareness and change of govt. I do not hold these laws against the police.

I agree with your opinion on who collects the evidence. But to say that india has all the laws it needs is an exaggeration. I was told by a knowledgeable source that there is scope.for improvement in evidentiary process. In any case these issues are best left to experts. In india there are lot of safety nets when assymetric power blocks such rich vs poor, govt vs people, upper castez vs sc/st, landlord vs tenant, and men vs women.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:04 am

truthbetold wrote:Are you aware of any indian law that is causing problems to rich and powerful? Do cops cause problems to rich and powerful?

Indian courts have on many occasions struck down laws that cause problems to societies elite.

How is that of any consolation to the common man? In a just society, the laws as well as the judicial process should be fair to everyone concerned, and not just to folks who can afford a top-notch lawyer.

And yes, there are plenty of laws in India which are unfair and antiquated. Most of them are carried over from British times and continue to remain in the lawbooks, serving as an instrument of harassment than anything else.

The Indian Penal Code which governs criminal law dates back to 1860. The Indian Evidence Act based on which cases get prosecuted dates back to 1872. And they reflect the mores of the time. Take Section 497 of the IPC which governs adultery. First of all, why should adultery be a criminal offence? Secondly, this law treats women as the husband's property so while the cuckolded husband can file a complaint, a wife can't complain abt a straying husband. POTA was of course a poster-child of an ill-thought out law that was widely abused by the cops. And now the latest IT Act which criminalizes any internet post which "causes inconvenience" or upsets anybody, recently used by cops to arrest two 21-year old girls for their Facebook posts abt Bal Thackeray. And then every state has its own share of silly laws, all serving no purpose other than to harass citizens. I've spoken elsewhere about the ridiculous Bombay Prohibition Act that was used to harass and extort money from people hosting new year parties at their homes last week. And these are just a few examples I can cite from the top of my head.

If you aren't aware of these things, the least you can do is read up on the topic before you blithely assume things about the Indian legal system.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:13 am

truthbetold wrote:Pota and tada are draconian. They are political strategies. They are used against poor and radical elements. The govt was deliberate in cresting and implementing these laws. They were working as they are designed. Police are, in my opinion, using these laws as intended.

Only if you believe that the laws were intended for the arrest and detention of innocent people on mere suspicion or worse still, for malafide reasons, and deprived of their normal legal protections. It is very easy to applaud draconian laws as long as they are used on marginal elements of society. You might reconsider your position if you were unfairly accused of something under POTA or TADA and locked up without legal recourse.

truthbetold wrote:Change in such laws can come through public awareness and change of govt. I do not hold these laws against the police.

Oh whatever happened to your touching belief that the courts of India, those ever-vigilant protectors of citizens' rights, will strike down laws that are unfair?

And haha, you think change of government leads to changes in laws?? Do you even know how the legislative process works? You sir, are a hoot.

truthbetold wrote:I agree with your opinion on who collects the evidence. But to say that india has all the laws it needs is an exaggeration. I was told by a knowledgeable source that there is scope.for improvement in evidentiary process.

Surely even you should be able to understand that improvement of laws is different from enacting more laws. India has more laws than is good for a vibrant society and definitely more than it can possible enforce. Here's an article on the topic: http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/DYeT66irqkZpCZEGqyaTGI/Our-laws-need-a-workout.html

by artood2 Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:29 am

MD gave some great examples of antiquated laws. On top of my head I can remember a cop killing a guy in Dehradun when he was "fleeing" from a police van. Mamata arrested some prof on some outrageous interpretation of existing law. Jaya (?) once had (or tried to ) Subrhamanium Swamy arrested for use of wors "pariah" on some antiquated law. When a stupid engineering grad had a video of some explicit MMS hosted on a website, the police arrested the CEO of that website. Some cop had a case filed against a resident (and probably a current day MP) for flying tricolour in your home because it violated some antiquated flag code.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:35 am

Merlot,
In your overzealous effort to score points you are failing to read the posts carefully and comprehend them properly. It is not the police who are responsible for the repressive tools like pota and tada. It is the political leadership. It is the state policy to supress public anger.
Police are tools. Frankly pota and tada were designed and created to harass innocents to drain the desire to protest.
i do not remember the history but pota or tada or its predecessor was struck down by court. Govt brought a new law with some modifications.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:52 am

truthbetold wrote:Merlot,
In your overzealous effort to score points you are failing to read the posts carefully and comprehend them properly. It is not the police who are responsible for the repressive tools like pota and tada. It is the political leadership. It is the state policy to supress public anger.
Police are tools. Frankly pota and tada were designed and created to harass innocents to drain the desire to protest.
i do not remember the history but pota or tada or its predecessor was struck down by court. Govt brought a new law with some modifications.

See, TADA was enacted in the first place in response to populist demands for "strong laws" to combat terrorism in Punjab, no different from your ignorant rant for stronger laws to combat rape.

And then, overzealous cops across the country, were found arresting all and sundry under TADA, regardless of linkages to terrorist acts, just because this law allowed them to arrest and detain without warrant, without any judicial oversight and without allowing the accused to any legal recourse. POTA was no better. Both laws gave a tremendous discretionary power to the investigating body, so they became easy tools for extortion for the cops and even lower levels of the judiciary. Arrest someone - usually poor and usually Muslim - under TADA / POTA and lock them up until their families scrounged around suffucient money and paid up.

Just fyi, despite being draconian, TADA's conviction rate was a pathetic 2%.

So before you go about demanding strong laws, read a bit about the record of such laws in India. And lastly, it's better to stay silent and be thought of as a fool than to shoot off ignorance-laden posts and confirm it.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:55 am

Merlot and r2,
indian legal system ad it exists only served the elite. The laws are written to support rich or upper castes. Where they were not supportive of elite, money, political power etc ensures that those laws were shelved. On occasion they bother powerful guy out of some external force. Otherwise sc / st laws, rape laws and dowry laws are inconsequential.

In us a perfectly legal tax law used against al capone the gangster to put him behind bars. Law enforcement can use laws wisely or.for political purposes. That is a political queztion. Not a policing queztion.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:00 am

truthbetold wrote:Merlot and r2,
indian legal system ad it exists only served the elite. The laws are written to support rich or upper castes. Where they were not supportive of elite, money, political power etc ensures that those laws were shelved. On occasion they bother powerful guy out of some external force. Otherwise sc / st laws, rape laws and dowry laws are inconsequential.

This post is empty rhetoric, good for the next Dalit rally. It makes absolutely no sense and is not even relevant to the discussion.

by artood2 Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:05 am

truthbetold wrote:Merlot and r2,
indian legal system ad it exists only served the elite. The laws are written to support rich or upper castes. Where they were not supportive of elite, money, political power etc ensures that those laws were shelved. On occasion they bother powerful guy out of some external force. Otherwise sc / st laws, rape laws and dowry laws are inconsequential.

In us a perfectly legal tax law used against al capone the gangster to put him behind bars. Law enforcement can use laws wisely or.for political purposes. That is a political queztion. Not a policing queztion.

That is precisely the point. In the context of Indian law enforcement, there are enough laws to aide a righteous cop nab the victim. You do not want to give law enforcement (anywhere) more powers than it needs to do its job efficiently. India is a vast country and anyone in the vast police force can decide to "do things his way". Any law should be well thought of and provide for sufficient safeguards (and I am not talking of corrective action for innocents) so that it is not misused.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:09 am

Merlot,
as usual you make up your own facts. Neither tada or pota was a law written in a hurry. Unlike your characterization that a better law could have been written is a figment of your imagination. They were designed for harrassment and they were successfully implemented. Police did not interpret them any differently than their framers intended. They were designed to be draconian and police used them accordingly. Blame goes to indira gandhi and her dynasty. Your attempts to confuse govt desire to supress peoples anger with peoples demand for better laws is ludicrous.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:11 am

Haha Unkil. TADA came an year after Indira Gandhi died. How long will you continue to make a fool of yourself??

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:38 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:Haha Unkil. TADA came an year after Indira Gandhi died. How long will you continue to make a fool of yourself??

as usual you make yourself a fool and think others are at fault. In addition you also have a reading comprehension problem. I said indira and her dynasty.
While illegal detentions were in existence forever, biggest change in indian govt position came late 1960s to tackle what is called naxalite or extremist voilence. Detentions and encounters were common place. Disturbed areas and preventive detention were common place in 1970s. Read the civil rights history. Justice krishna iyer and turkunde fought against such practices.
pota and tada were modified versions of previous acts.
it started in indira era and continued to this day.
So stop mouthing off and read some history.

by Merlot Daruwala Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:59 am

Aha. There were illegal detentions during Indira Gandhi's time. So she is to be blamed for a law enacted after her death which allowed for legal detention??

Bwahaha...you're ignorant and you're dishonest. Even when numerous instances of your ignorance and incorrect understanding are pointed out, you come back with convoluted justifications for the rubbish you write. Keep at it.

by truthbetold Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:25 am

Merlot ,
your ego will not allow you to see sense. your anxiousness to score a point and declare victory at every post is obnoxious.
the point i made was tada and pota were children of indira era draconian laws. so deserves the blame along with her dynasty.
the more basic argument is pota and tada are not some rushed laws. they have a long history and they allow civil right abuse because they were designed for that purpose.
now spin it in your own stupid way and congratulate yourself.

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