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Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
by Rishi Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:15 pm
http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2012/05/buddha-and-caste.html
It is dogmatised in the Lalitavistara in the following way: a Bodhisattva can by no means come from a lower or even mixed caste: ‘After all Bodhisattvas were not born in despised lineage, among pariahs, in families of pipe or cart makers, or mixed castes.’ Instead, in perfect harmony with the Great Sermon, it was said that: ‘The Bodhisattvas appear only in two kinds of lineage, the one of the brahmanas and of the warriors (kshatriya).’”
A word returning frequently in Buddhist texts is “nobly-born”. Buddhists were proud to say this of their Guru, whose noble birth from the direct descendants of Manu Vaivasvata was an endless object of praise. Birth was very important to the Buddha, which is why his disciples wrote a lot of hagiographical fantasy around his own birth, with miracles attending his birth from a queen. The Buddha himself said it many times, e.g. of the girls who should not be molested: they should be those of noble birth, as distinct from the base-born women who in the Buddha’s estimation were not equally delicate.
The Buddha also didn’t believe in gender equality. For long he refused to recruit women into his monastic order, saying that nuns would shorten its life-span by five hundred years. At long last he relented when his mother was widowed and other relatives, nobly-born Kshatriyas like the Buddha himself, insisted. Nepotism wasn’t alien to him either. But he made this institution of female monastics conditional upon the acceptance that even the most seasoned nun was subordinate to even the dullest and most junior monk. Some Theravada countries have even re-abolished the women’s monastic order, and it is only under Western feminist influence that Thailand is gradually reaccepting nuns.
It is dogmatised in the Lalitavistara in the following way: a Bodhisattva can by no means come from a lower or even mixed caste: ‘After all Bodhisattvas were not born in despised lineage, among pariahs, in families of pipe or cart makers, or mixed castes.’ Instead, in perfect harmony with the Great Sermon, it was said that: ‘The Bodhisattvas appear only in two kinds of lineage, the one of the brahmanas and of the warriors (kshatriya).’”
A word returning frequently in Buddhist texts is “nobly-born”. Buddhists were proud to say this of their Guru, whose noble birth from the direct descendants of Manu Vaivasvata was an endless object of praise. Birth was very important to the Buddha, which is why his disciples wrote a lot of hagiographical fantasy around his own birth, with miracles attending his birth from a queen. The Buddha himself said it many times, e.g. of the girls who should not be molested: they should be those of noble birth, as distinct from the base-born women who in the Buddha’s estimation were not equally delicate.
The Buddha also didn’t believe in gender equality. For long he refused to recruit women into his monastic order, saying that nuns would shorten its life-span by five hundred years. At long last he relented when his mother was widowed and other relatives, nobly-born Kshatriyas like the Buddha himself, insisted. Nepotism wasn’t alien to him either. But he made this institution of female monastics conditional upon the acceptance that even the most seasoned nun was subordinate to even the dullest and most junior monk. Some Theravada countries have even re-abolished the women’s monastic order, and it is only under Western feminist influence that Thailand is gradually reaccepting nuns.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:28 am
You should give him some slack (he belonged to a different period and was basing his views on contemporary societal practices).
In my view, there is nothing new in what Buddha advocated. He had the luxury of being exposed to all the major Upanishads that preceded him. Buddhists, to portray their faith as something different from Hinduism, went overboard in ignoring this FACT. Buddhism minus Vedanta will just become a superstitious & ritualistic mambo jumbo (just watch their death rituals, for an illustration).
In my view, there is nothing new in what Buddha advocated. He had the luxury of being exposed to all the major Upanishads that preceded him. Buddhists, to portray their faith as something different from Hinduism, went overboard in ignoring this FACT. Buddhism minus Vedanta will just become a superstitious & ritualistic mambo jumbo (just watch their death rituals, for an illustration).
Vakavaka Pakapaka- Posts : 7611
Join date : 2012-08-24
Re: Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
by truthbetold Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:22 am
The main difference between buddism and hinduism is the attitude towards varna system.
It is not a surprise that both of them sound and act the same in many other areas. You can argue what is said by upanishads and by buddha.
But the buddhist propagation in india and in other kingdoms discarded varna system. The failure of buddism in india was its inability to provide a successful economic model to replace india's established caste based arrangement.
By the time sankaracharya had his duels, economics of non productive aramas already lost the battle for buddism.
all these literary word smithing is to make oneself feel better. Buddism opposed varna system.
It is not a surprise that both of them sound and act the same in many other areas. You can argue what is said by upanishads and by buddha.
But the buddhist propagation in india and in other kingdoms discarded varna system. The failure of buddism in india was its inability to provide a successful economic model to replace india's established caste based arrangement.
By the time sankaracharya had his duels, economics of non productive aramas already lost the battle for buddism.
all these literary word smithing is to make oneself feel better. Buddism opposed varna system.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:49 am
In early Buddhism, varna system was still lingering. For example, Ashoka's edicts included protection for Brahmanas and cows! Varna system obviously disappeared gradually in Buddhism. One of the reasons, perhaps, is related to its migration to other societies around.
Leaving the varna system aside, the main "Buddhist philosophy", however, is a continuation of the Indian thought.
Leaving the varna system aside, the main "Buddhist philosophy", however, is a continuation of the Indian thought.
Vakavaka Pakapaka- Posts : 7611
Join date : 2012-08-24
Re: Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
by truthbetold Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:01 am
Leaving the varna system aside, the main "Buddhist philosophy", however, is a continuation of the Indian thought.[/quote]
It is no surprise buddism and hinduism reflect one another. Same is true of jainism and to some extent sikhism. In all these relatives and off shoots varna vibedh or kula dharma, ad hinduism preached and practiced, is opposed.
Buddism did not bring varna vibedh to south india during or after asoka. His edicts are probably out of respect to other religion than to propagate varna vibedh.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Buddhism was an elite movement. Buddha practiced caste and gender discrimination.
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