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Revoke her American citizenship right away. Right now

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Revoke her American citizenship right away. Right now Empty Revoke her American citizenship right away. Right now

Post by Rishi Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:19 pm

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/25/17912024-america-took-my-kids-away-mother-of-boston-suspects-insists-sons-not-responsible?lite

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:21 pm

should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.
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Post by Rishi Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:34 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1

his citizenship was revoked because he concealed information on his citizenship application. what did tsarnaeva conceal on her citizenship application? the reason for the revocation is concealing information, not his nazi activities. it is a different matter that the citizenship application would have been rejected if he did not conceal that information.


Last edited by MaxEntropy_Man on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:36 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1

his citizenship was revoked because he concealed information on his citizenship application. what did tsarnaeva conceal on her citizenship application?

Leave it to the INS and the US Govt. agencies. They will find 10 mistakes in your application to deport you - IF they want to.

Heck..even I can find 2 or 3 in any past application of any naturalized citizen or GC holder.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:38 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1

his citizenship was revoked because he concealed information on his citizenship application. what did tsarnaeva conceal on her citizenship application?

Leave it to the INS and the US Govt. agencies. They will find 10 mistakes in your application to deport you - IF they want to.

Heck..even I can find 2 or 3 in any past application of any naturalized citizen or GC holder.

if your trust in the american government is so fragile and tenuous, perhaps you should consider returning your green card or citizenship (depending on your status).
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Post by Rishi Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:39 pm

This Cambodian girl wants to stay in America which is the only country she knows. But she may get deported.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/10/lundy-khoy-d-c-woman-faces-deportation-to-cambodia-80597.html

There are already quite a few Cambodians who were deported because they ran with the wrong crowd in the projects they lived and did drugs. They were brought when they were small children. Their parents were illiterate, not savvy and did not get their kids naturalized ASAP.


Last edited by Rishi on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by gone Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:40 pm

Max, why are you defending this nutjob family? They mooched off taxpayers, had to flee the country to evade arrest for shoplifting, and their kids were brainwashed to become cold-blooded murderers. Are you a bit Aspie? Or OCD?

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:42 pm

mainstreet wrote:Max, why are you defending this nutjob family? They mooched off taxpayers, had to flee the country to evade arrest for shoplifting, and their kids were brainwashed to become cold-blooded murderers. Are you a bit Aspie? Or OCD?

i am not defending them. i'd like to expose the hypocrisy surrounding who we consider terrorists. somehow if hatred and nutjobbery is islamic in origin we all get our undies in a hopeless twist. but if is not islamic we have a totally different reaction to it. i'd like us to look at all nutjobbery on an even keel and have an equally frenzied response to both the islamic and non-islamic nutjobbery.

at the root of that question lies our blase attitude towards gun violence.
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Post by gone Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:46 pm

I think you're the one who's overreacting. This would be my reaction if some illegal Hispanic Catholic from Mexico ended up doing at the Boston Marathon in the name of religion. Or some illegal Hindu Indian ended up doing in the name of religion.

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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:47 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1

his citizenship was revoked because he concealed information on his citizenship application. what did tsarnaeva conceal on her citizenship application?

Leave it to the INS and the US Govt. agencies. They will find 10 mistakes in your application to deport you - IF they want to.

Heck..even I can find 2 or 3 in any past application of any naturalized citizen or GC holder.

if your trust in the american government is so fragile and tenuous, perhaps you should consider returning your green card or citizenship (depending on your status).

You had and have unflinching faith in the fairness of Indian Govt. So, why did you give up your Indian citizenship ?

At least, in my case I have no complete faith or trust in any Government in the world. I am being consistent here...Razz (this icon is dedicated to Max).

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:49 pm

i recently gave up my indian citizenship for reasons of practical convenience. it became a hassle filling out onerous paperwork whenever i have to visit govt research facilities which i have to do often. it was a carefully considered but emotionally difficult decision.
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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i recently gave up my indian citizenship for reasons of practical convenience. it became a hassle filling out onerous paperwork whenever i have to visit govt research facilities which i have to do often.

I know....my question was rhetorical.

Most Indians change status for economic reasons or some for family reasons.

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Post by Seva Lamberdar Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:52 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:should we do the same with members of extreme right wing groups that espouse dangerous neo-nazi ideologies? one would hope an american citizenship is not so fragile a thing.

The guys you were referring to were born in America. Where can they be sent?

America strips the citizenship of people who immigrated this country and later found to be nazis.

[url=http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/12/us-judge-denies-citizenship-bid-by-nazi-guard-demjanjuk/1[/quote[/url]]

Officially, the denial or reversal of U.S. immigration / citizenship is the result of misrepresentation in the immigration / citizen application, such as hiding the previous Nazi or some other connection in the application, and not for being a Nazi etc. Did the U.S. revoke the immigration rights to scientist von Braun and send him back to Germany knowing fully well that he had worked for the Nazis (and might have been a Nazi) before he came to the U.S.? No.
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYp0igbxHcmg1G1J-qw0VUBSn7Fu

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:53 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Officially, the denial or reversal of U.S. immigration / citizenship is the result of misrepresentation in the immigration / citizen application, such as hiding the previous Nazi or some other connection in the application, and not for being a Nazi etc.

correct. that was the point i was making as well.
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Post by bw Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:37 pm

why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:49 pm

bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?
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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:54 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

or Stalin ?

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Post by bw Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:59 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

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Post by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:08 pm

bw wrote:

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

much of the history of the middle ages comes to us written down by european historians. i'd like to read non-european narratives too.
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Post by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:23 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

Or Narendra ? or Modi ?

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Post by Ponniyin Selvan Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

much of the history of the middle ages comes to us written down by european historians. i'd like to read non-european narratives too.

Right, European historians wrote history in a way that any warlord who was from Europe or west and went east and conquered lands are considered greats whereas warlords from east who conquered lands in westward directions are called as barbarians. Attilla, Timur, Chengiz Khan are called as barbarians.

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Post by bw Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:27 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

Or Narendra ? or Modi ?

george bush too. Razz Razz

history is written by the victors.

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Post by Merlot Daruwala Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:31 am

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

One (wo)man's notoriety is another man's greatness. Timur is lionized all over Central Asia. The Mughals referred to themselves as of Timurid lineage.
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Post by Kayalvizhi Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:42 am

>> history is written by the victors.

True. For example CBSE history book has about half page discussion of 1965 anti-Hindi agitation. It tells of property damage by protesters but says absolutely nothing about army/police shooting protesters and killing over 60.

Property damage is common in most demonstrations but killing 60 people is rare (may the only other in South asian history is Jallianwala Bagh massacre.

http://www.tamiltribune.com/12/0901.html

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Post by bw Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:07 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

One (wo)man's notoriety is another man's greatness. Timur is lionized all over Central Asia. The Mughals referred to themselves as of Timurid lineage.

true - i didn't know that he is still lionized.

"Timur has now been officially recognized as a national hero of newly independent Uzbekistan. His monument in Tashkent now occupies the place where Marx's statue once stood"

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Post by garam_kuta Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:33 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:why would anyone name a kid "tamarlan"? isn't it the equivalent of "hitler"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

do you also have objections to alexander?

tamarlan is more like genghis khan, i thought, when it comes to notoriety.

you raise a good point but for some reason, i don't immediately think of "alexander the great" and his plundering when i hear the name 'alexander' - conditioning, perhaps.

One (wo)man's notoriety is another man's greatness. Timur is lionized all over Central Asia. The Mughals referred to themselves as of Timurid lineage.

Alex is 'the great' because he was only 24 by the time he achieved all this, i believe

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Post by confuzzled dude Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:22 am

Rishi wrote:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/25/17912024-america-took-my-kids-away-mother-of-boston-suspects-insists-sons-not-responsible?lite

It's a logical choice to renounce her citizenship given the possibility of getting arrested on shop-lifting charges.

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