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A comment about AIT (related to the epigenetics and linguistics)
by Seva Lamberdar Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:09 pm
"Cameroon people in the you tube clipping are talking Tamil not Sanskrit. Sanskrit is an Indo European language and Tamil is a Dravidian Language. What all you are telling about genetics need to be supported by a publication in a science journal of repute." ... DMRSekhar
Response (S.L.)
Tamil may be a Dravidian language but there seems to a considerable influence on Tamil from Sanskrit (which the Europeans called an Indo-European language because of its many similarities with several European languages). Anyway, Sanskrit's influence and similarities with Tamil and other Dravidian languages are greater than Sanskrit's similarities with European languages. Even the word Dravidian itself seems to be from Sanskrit, meaning originally as near or at the edge of water,
Regarding your mention in the above about genetic testing based research in reputed journals, that is seriously skewed since it totally overlooks the long term climatic effect and lifestyle of people in relation to their color / complexion and corresponding genetic markers and only considers the migration of ancestors long ago (and that too only in one direction alone, towards India from outside, from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India) as the cause for similarity in colors / complexions and corresponding genetic markers.
Incidentally, the rainy and not very hot north India and the dry and hot south India are separated by a puny mountain range (Vindhiyas) which, unlike the tall and rugged Himalayas, can be crossed easily by people on foot.
If the migrations long ago over thousands of miles involving people / ancestors, from Europe into north India while crossing even the rough and high Himalayas and from Africa into south India while crossing even thousands of miles of rough ocean, could take place successfully and cause the spreading of genes, colors and complexions in India (as you say from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India), then why did they stop abruptly at the puny Vindhiyas (from crossing into south India or north India, respectively)?
Specifically, why did the European genes and colors / complexions stop at the puny Vindhiyas without spilling and spreading further into south India after traveling thousands of rugged miles over mountains etc. from Europe to reach north India?
Similarly, why did the African genes and colors / complexions stop at the puny Vindhiyas without spilling and spreading further into north India after traveling thousands of miles in the rough ocean from Africa to reach south India?
The inability to answer these and other questions properly (discussed already in the links I gave earlier) clearly indicates that, rather than the ancestors’ migrating from outside into India long ago (from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India), perhaps it might even be the other way around, i.e. the light colored people from north India going out and spreading their genes in Europe and the dark / brownish south Indians carrying and spreading their genes in Africa.
Anyway, the major reason for the similarities in colors / complexions and genetic markers for people in south India and Africa (dark or brown) and north India and Europe (white or light complexioned) seems to be the long term effect and lifestyle (over several millenniums) due to climate (hot and dry in south India, similar to Africa, and less hot and rainy or snowy in north India, similar to Europe) effecting the people epigenetically.
As for the people in Cameroon speaking a Dravidian type language, that just might be that Sanskrit or some other south Indian language (Sanskrit had influenced all the south Indian languages including Tamil) moved to Cameroon and other places with people from south India going to those places long ago, rather than the other way around.
Moreover, people long ago from many far-off places (including Cameroon perhaps) were trading with India and visiting India. Some of those traders / visitors to India from Cameroon etc. could have carried the influence of Sanskrit and south Indian languages back home (Cameroon etc.) with them.
http://creative.sulekha.com/aryanization_606474_blog
Response (S.L.)
Tamil may be a Dravidian language but there seems to a considerable influence on Tamil from Sanskrit (which the Europeans called an Indo-European language because of its many similarities with several European languages). Anyway, Sanskrit's influence and similarities with Tamil and other Dravidian languages are greater than Sanskrit's similarities with European languages. Even the word Dravidian itself seems to be from Sanskrit, meaning originally as near or at the edge of water,
Regarding your mention in the above about genetic testing based research in reputed journals, that is seriously skewed since it totally overlooks the long term climatic effect and lifestyle of people in relation to their color / complexion and corresponding genetic markers and only considers the migration of ancestors long ago (and that too only in one direction alone, towards India from outside, from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India) as the cause for similarity in colors / complexions and corresponding genetic markers.
Incidentally, the rainy and not very hot north India and the dry and hot south India are separated by a puny mountain range (Vindhiyas) which, unlike the tall and rugged Himalayas, can be crossed easily by people on foot.
If the migrations long ago over thousands of miles involving people / ancestors, from Europe into north India while crossing even the rough and high Himalayas and from Africa into south India while crossing even thousands of miles of rough ocean, could take place successfully and cause the spreading of genes, colors and complexions in India (as you say from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India), then why did they stop abruptly at the puny Vindhiyas (from crossing into south India or north India, respectively)?
Specifically, why did the European genes and colors / complexions stop at the puny Vindhiyas without spilling and spreading further into south India after traveling thousands of rugged miles over mountains etc. from Europe to reach north India?
Similarly, why did the African genes and colors / complexions stop at the puny Vindhiyas without spilling and spreading further into north India after traveling thousands of miles in the rough ocean from Africa to reach south India?
The inability to answer these and other questions properly (discussed already in the links I gave earlier) clearly indicates that, rather than the ancestors’ migrating from outside into India long ago (from Europe into north India and from Africa into south India), perhaps it might even be the other way around, i.e. the light colored people from north India going out and spreading their genes in Europe and the dark / brownish south Indians carrying and spreading their genes in Africa.
Anyway, the major reason for the similarities in colors / complexions and genetic markers for people in south India and Africa (dark or brown) and north India and Europe (white or light complexioned) seems to be the long term effect and lifestyle (over several millenniums) due to climate (hot and dry in south India, similar to Africa, and less hot and rainy or snowy in north India, similar to Europe) effecting the people epigenetically.
As for the people in Cameroon speaking a Dravidian type language, that just might be that Sanskrit or some other south Indian language (Sanskrit had influenced all the south Indian languages including Tamil) moved to Cameroon and other places with people from south India going to those places long ago, rather than the other way around.
Moreover, people long ago from many far-off places (including Cameroon perhaps) were trading with India and visiting India. Some of those traders / visitors to India from Cameroon etc. could have carried the influence of Sanskrit and south Indian languages back home (Cameroon etc.) with them.
http://creative.sulekha.com/aryanization_606474_blog
Seva Lamberdar- Posts : 6574
Join date : 2012-11-29 -
Re: A comment about AIT (related to the epigenetics and linguistics)
by Seva Lamberdar Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:55 pm
The related links ("... I gave earlier..")
(1) "About the origins of Vedas and Sanskrit (including Aryan Invasion Theory)" ... http://creative.sulekha.com/about-the-origins-of-vedas-and-sanskrit-including-aryan-invasion-theory_591513_blog
(2) "Genetic testing issues in the study of ancient population migrations in India" ... http://education.sulekha.com/genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india_594422_blog
(1) "About the origins of Vedas and Sanskrit (including Aryan Invasion Theory)" ... http://creative.sulekha.com/about-the-origins-of-vedas-and-sanskrit-including-aryan-invasion-theory_591513_blog
(2) "Genetic testing issues in the study of ancient population migrations in India" ... http://education.sulekha.com/genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india_594422_blog
Seva Lamberdar- Posts : 6574
Join date : 2012-11-29 -
Re: A comment about AIT (related to the epigenetics and linguistics)
by Seva Lamberdar Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:59 am
Militarily and politically India might have been overtaken and ruled by many foreigners arriving originally in small bands from outside (including Huns, Muslims and Christians) and many Indians even changed their religion from Hinduism to that of the new / foreign rulers (Christians from Europe and Muslims from Persia / MiddleEast etc.), but genetically speaking the vast majority of present Indian population (including the descendents of those converting to Christianity or Islam long ago) are more Indian (Hindu) than European (Christian) or MiddleEastern (Muslim).
“…a handful of people (bandits and invaders etc.) supposedly arriving in India from abroad on a number of occasions long ago, taking over the country, marrying or impregnating many local women and producing numerous offspring would not make majority of present Indians having foreign roots. Most of the sons and daughters born to the original foreign invaders and settlers with Indian mates would have half Indian blood and half foreign blood. When these children of foreigners, carrying half Indian and half foreign blood (genetic markers), would choose and marry mates mainly from the vast indigenous Indian population, they would produce children who would have only one-fourth foreigner blood and three-fourth Indian blood (genetic markers).
“This process of marrying repeatedly over the generations into the local / indigenous population in India would ultimately lead to the children (the present day Indians basically) whose blood and genetic markers would be mostly or entirely (in case they never had the foreign input) indigenous (similar to the existing in India prior to the arrival of foreigners long ago) and have very little or nothing in common with the original foreign blood and genetic markers. It seems silly therefore for anyone to imply that most people in India these days are of foreign origin. …. “
http://education.sulekha.com/genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india_594422_blog
“…a handful of people (bandits and invaders etc.) supposedly arriving in India from abroad on a number of occasions long ago, taking over the country, marrying or impregnating many local women and producing numerous offspring would not make majority of present Indians having foreign roots. Most of the sons and daughters born to the original foreign invaders and settlers with Indian mates would have half Indian blood and half foreign blood. When these children of foreigners, carrying half Indian and half foreign blood (genetic markers), would choose and marry mates mainly from the vast indigenous Indian population, they would produce children who would have only one-fourth foreigner blood and three-fourth Indian blood (genetic markers).
“This process of marrying repeatedly over the generations into the local / indigenous population in India would ultimately lead to the children (the present day Indians basically) whose blood and genetic markers would be mostly or entirely (in case they never had the foreign input) indigenous (similar to the existing in India prior to the arrival of foreigners long ago) and have very little or nothing in common with the original foreign blood and genetic markers. It seems silly therefore for anyone to imply that most people in India these days are of foreign origin. …. “
http://education.sulekha.com/genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india_594422_blog
Seva Lamberdar- Posts : 6574
Join date : 2012-11-29 -
Re: A comment about AIT (related to the epigenetics and linguistics)
by Seva Lamberdar Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:05 pm
The basic issue in this case is that whatever migration related genetic markers in people in different places (India and abroad) might have resulted in the beginning (when the limited genetic exchange occurred thousands of years ago), the dilution / dissipation of those genetic markers among present descendents (of common ancestors long ago) is nearly complete (as explained earlier) thus making those common or similar (migrations related) genetic markers statistically insignificant (even unnoticeable) during the current genetic tests.
On the other hand, whatever genetic similarities are noticed in people in different places during genetic testing these days (such as a few genetic markers matching in north Indians and Europeans and a few other genetic markers matching in Africans and south Indians), that mostly is the result of epigenetics caused by the similarity in environments (climate and lifestyle etc.) in north India and Europe and in south India and Africa, respectively.
Don’t confuse the similarity in genetic markers arising due to epigenetics (same type of environmental influences in different places) as if due to the migrations long ago, because the latter (the migration related genetic markers) are now nearly non-existent and very likely statistically insignificant (as indicated earlier).
On the other hand, whatever genetic similarities are noticed in people in different places during genetic testing these days (such as a few genetic markers matching in north Indians and Europeans and a few other genetic markers matching in Africans and south Indians), that mostly is the result of epigenetics caused by the similarity in environments (climate and lifestyle etc.) in north India and Europe and in south India and Africa, respectively.
Don’t confuse the similarity in genetic markers arising due to epigenetics (same type of environmental influences in different places) as if due to the migrations long ago, because the latter (the migration related genetic markers) are now nearly non-existent and very likely statistically insignificant (as indicated earlier).
Seva Lamberdar- Posts : 6574
Join date : 2012-11-29 -
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