are these two insults equivalent?

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:31 pm

the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?

by Guest Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:36 pm

just call both as bitch and make it a universal non-(sex and sexual orientation)- discriminatory insult.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:41 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:just call both as bitch and make it a universal non-(sex and sexual orientation)- discriminatory insult.

that's not helpful. person A, a male homosexual, called person B a woman, a bitch. is it a socially acceptable equivalent insult for B to call A, a fag?

by Petrichor Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:46 pm

bitch is a word used by both men and women
fag is a word not used by gays to insult each other

bitches are not social outcasts...
gays were

fag is equiv of calling someone a n-word

so bitch is acceptable relatively speaking to fag or n-word

by Guest Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:just call both as bitch and make it a universal non-(sex and sexual orientation)- discriminatory insult.
that's not helpful. person A, a male homosexual, called person B a woman, a bitch. is it a socially acceptable equivalent insult for B to call A, a fag?

I don't think so. it's just being mean, even if we are talking insults and already on murky grounds. I personally don't like gender specific or sexual orientation curse words, also religion specific, like calling a muslim guy a katta/kattas, avoid that.

If I were her, I would call him, to be mild, a jerk or a jackass, or to not be too mild, an asshole or a bastard, and move on. Or I might just show middle finger. There was an age (in 20s) when I was middle finger trigger-happy. I still am with XH, but that's another story altogether.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:57 pm

bitch is a crude reference to a woman's gender just as fag is a crude reference to one's sexual orientation. why privilege protecting against giving offense to one's sexual orientation over one's gender?

by Guest Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:02 pm

bitch = a woman who is bitchy. Not all women are bitches. It's a special word of insult. Guess bitch has been overdone to carry much sensitivity, to the point it's used as a verb, and for men too.

fag = just about any man who sleeps with another man. Thus implying it's justified to be spiteful to a man just coz he loves men. Fag is still comparatively new, and there is still a lot of sensitivity around it. Calling a homosexual man a fag is even worse compared to calling a straight guy that. Although middle school is where it loses all its meaning.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:29 pm

http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf

by bw Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:25 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?

i think both are equally derogatory. i wouldn't talk to a person who calls me a bitch.

"bitching" as a verb has taken on a different meaning and is used to indicate whining or complaining and "bitchy" refers to a woman who is a gossiping, nasty piece of work.

by garam_kuta Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:54 pm

a morbid curiosity- what are the equivalents of these in indian languages, say in thamizh, for example, i wonder

by nevada Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:01 am

Some women describe themselves as a bitch - "I can be a bitch sometimes" is not an uncommon sentence. It could mean very demanding, knowing exactly what they want, tough as nails etc. But I don't think a gay man would ever describe himself as a faggot. So bitch is the lesser insult between the 2 of them.

by Guest Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:03 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf

Wasn't aware of the whole notion of feminism/sexism/patriarchy behind the word, that's the advantage/disadvantage of being a foreigner. Simply translated the equivalent in Hindi for both genders to b and sob. Won't change my attitude still. Don't think it's a big deal.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:17 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf
Wasn't aware of the whole notion of feminism/sexism/patriarchy behind the word, that's the advantage/disadvantage of being a foreigner. Simply translated the equivalent in Hindi for both genders to b and sob. Won't change my attitude still. Don't think it's a big deal.

it IS a big deal. it perpetuates the notion that women are somehow lesser beings. i used to pooh-pooh these things as something academic feminists rant about, but not anymore. being the father of girls fixes that indifference for men. do read the paper. sometimes the language is very pedantic as journal papers in the humanities tend to be, but it makes some powerful arguments. to an extent i do believe the bra-burning women, now 60 or 70 years old who fought the original feminist battles in the US and elsewhere in the western world, that younger generations of women have squandered many of the things they fought for and won.

from the article i posted:

We still hear “She’s a bitch,” and there is no mistaking the negative connotation,
whether used by a female or male speaker. Yet, in classrooms and on college
campuses, we have frequently heard students use bitch as a generic noun. “Life is
a bitch, and then you die” has been around for a while, but more recently we have
overheard students saying, for example, “That test was a real bitch!” The test, or any
other object being described this way, is presumably difficult, or, at the very least,
annoying. If the student believes that she or he has not done well, the expression
distances the speaker from responsibility—it is not poor preparation on the part of
the student, or that s/he isn’t smart, but that the test (the “bitch”) was unfair or more
difficult than it should have been. If the student does well on the test, s/he can feel
proud of having aced “a bitch of a test.” The expression draws on the meaning of
“bitch” as a pejorative term for women. Hypothetically, the pejoratives associated
with men and masculinity—“dick” or “dickhead”—could be used in the same manner.
But we have never heard a student say “That test was a real dick.”

by Guest Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:44 am

I understand your pov, max.

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:56 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.jmu.edu/socanth/sociology/wm_library/Ezzell.Reclaiming_Critical_Analysis.pdf
Wasn't aware of the whole notion of feminism/sexism/patriarchy behind the word, that's the advantage/disadvantage of being a foreigner. Simply translated the equivalent in Hindi for both genders to b and sob. Won't change my attitude still. Don't think it's a big deal.
it IS a big deal. it perpetuates the notion that women are somehow lesser beings. i used to pooh-pooh these things as something academic feminists rant about, but not anymore. being the father of girls fixes that indifference for men. do read the paper. sometimes the language is very pedantic as journal papers in the humanities tend to be, but it makes some powerful arguments. to an extent i do believe the bra-burning women, now 60 or 70 years old who fought the original feminist battles in the US and elsewhere in the western world, that younger generations of women have squandered many of the things they fought for and won.

from the article i posted:

We still hear “She’s a bitch,” and there is no mistaking the negative connotation,
whether used by a female or male speaker. Yet, in classrooms and on college
campuses, we have frequently heard students use bitch as a generic noun. “Life is
a bitch, and then you die” has been around for a while, but more recently we have
overheard students saying, for example, “That test was a real bitch!” The test, or any
other object being described this way, is presumably difficult, or, at the very least,
annoying. If the student believes that she or he has not done well, the expression
distances the speaker from responsibility—it is not poor preparation on the part of
the student, or that s/he isn’t smart, but that the test (the “bitch”) was unfair or more
difficult than it should have been. If the student does well on the test, s/he can feel
proud of having aced “a bitch of a test.” The expression draws on the meaning of
“bitch” as a pejorative term for women. Hypothetically, the pejoratives associated
with men and masculinity—“dick” or “dickhead”—could be used in the same manner.
But we have never heard a student say “That test was a real dick.”

That's one mean motherfucker of a rant!

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:05 am

Unlike words like “shit” and “fuck,” “bitch” is not covered
by the Federal Communications Commission’s guidelines on obscene, indecent, and
profane language.5 Columnist Theresa Schneider (2006) comments on this:
Under the definition of indecent language I can print the word “bitch” as
many times as I want, I but can’t say s---. The so-called standards of indecent
language protect children from poop but allow impressionable listeners and
viewers to learn that calling a woman a bitch is not only socially acceptable,
but normal and sometimes funny. Essentially, by allowing “bitch” and not
“s---”, the FCC exposes children to the idea that it is OK to degrade women

by southindian Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:25 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?

Bitch and Fag are not insults. Bitch and Fag are simply 5 and 3 alphabet words.

Bitch has 4 consonants and 1 vowel. Fag has 2 consonants and 1 vowel.

Bitch is referred to female dog and Fag is a tiring or unwelcome task. Did you change the meaning?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:38 am

southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?
Bitch and Fag are not insults. Bitch and Fag are simply 5 and 3 alphabet words.

Bitch has 4 consonants and 1 vowel. Fag has 2 consonants and 1 vowel.

Bitch is referred to female dog and Fag is a tiring or unwelcome task. Did you change the meaning?

profound! did you attend toothseeker university?

by southindian Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:40 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?
Bitch and Fag are not insults. Bitch and Fag are simply 5 and 3 alphabet words.

Bitch has 4 consonants and 1 vowel. Fag has 2 consonants and 1 vowel.

Bitch is referred to female dog and Fag is a tiring or unwelcome task. Did you change the meaning?
profound! did you attend toothseeker university?

Who?

by Merlot Daruwala Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:43 am

southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?
Bitch and Fag are not insults. Bitch and Fag are simply 5 and 3 alphabet words.

Bitch has 4 consonants and 1 vowel. Fag has 2 consonants and 1 vowel.

Bitch is referred to female dog and Fag is a tiring or unwelcome task. Did you change the meaning?
profound! did you attend toothseeker university?
Who?

Avivek, that should be "Where", not "Who". Toothseeker University is not a person.

by southindian Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:47 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
southindian wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:the b-word to refer to a woman and the f-word (the three letter f-word) to refer to a homosexual person. if not, why not?
Bitch and Fag are not insults. Bitch and Fag are simply 5 and 3 alphabet words.

Bitch has 4 consonants and 1 vowel. Fag has 2 consonants and 1 vowel.

Bitch is referred to female dog and Fag is a tiring or unwelcome task. Did you change the meaning?
profound! did you attend toothseeker university?
Who?
Avivek, that should be "Where", not "Who". Toothseeker University is not a person.

aVivek, I disagree.

by Impedimenta Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:06 am

always thought of this as a big deal. i think of these as swear words, irrespective of their "dictionary meanings". one has to be dumb to not see the context they have been used in. i don't swear and grew up never listening to anyone swear around me and always worked in a swear free environment. maybe it depends on all of these factors. or maybe i am just odd.

by Guest Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:32 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:I understand your pov, max.

Max, didn't have time for a lengthy post in the morning, but since you brought up raising your girls, and I am sure you are already on top of this, as long as they have a reasonably high self esteem, more than half their problems are already resolved. No one can insult-n-injure them by using one 5-letter word. Having a teen myself, guess this is a bigger issue than getting hung up on a curse word.

Women behave much more whacky when they suffer from a low self esteem, seen it personally. They do weird and much more self-harming things, just to prove a point to god knows who. They think they are in power when men react to them, not realizing that they are simply being used. All this external facade of cursing and all, they can stay unperturbed and still call the shots, as long as they thing highly of themselves, in a true way, not in the passive-aggressive way that comes from the low self esteem.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:08 am

I find that calling a woman sexy bitch, complimenting the juicy and tight nature of her ahem, how do I say this in polite company, cunt and informing her that it'll be fucked raw tonight tends to enhance the love making experience.

by bw Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:33 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Unlike words like “shit” and “fuck,” “bitch” is not covered
by the Federal Communications Commission’s guidelines on obscene, indecent, and
profane language.5 Columnist Theresa Schneider (2006) comments on this:
Under the definition of indecent language I can print the word “bitch” as
many times as I want, I but can’t say s---. The so-called standards of indecent
language protect children from poop but allow impressionable listeners and
viewers to learn that calling a woman a bitch is not only socially acceptable,
but normal and sometimes funny. Essentially, by allowing “bitch” and not
“s---”, the FCC exposes children to the idea that it is OK to degrade women

what do they say of the word "sissy"? that is also based on "women are less".

while i do find people who like to refer to women as "bitches" rather puerile and not worth my time, i think there are bigger issues that need to be tackled when it comes to emancipation of women(in the western context) - the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society, for instance.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:45 pm

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Unlike words like “shit” and “fuck,” “bitch” is not covered
by the Federal Communications Commission’s guidelines on obscene, indecent, and
profane language.5 Columnist Theresa Schneider (2006) comments on this:
Under the definition of indecent language I can print the word “bitch” as
many times as I want, I but can’t say s---. The so-called standards of indecent
language protect children from poop but allow impressionable listeners and
viewers to learn that calling a woman a bitch is not only socially acceptable,
but normal and sometimes funny. Essentially, by allowing “bitch” and not
“s---”, the FCC exposes children to the idea that it is OK to degrade women
what do they say of the word "sissy"? that is also based on "women are less".

while i do find people who like to refer to women as "bitches" rather puerile and not worth my time, i think there are bigger issues that need to be tackled when it comes to emancipation of women(in the western context) - the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society, for instance.

Have you ever noticed that only good looking people insist on not insisting on it

Rich people pontificating that money is not important for happiness.

People who left a country being more patriotic

People who stayed behind patriotically who indulge in all kinds of unpatriotic activities?

Why O why ?

by bw Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:06 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Unlike words like “shit” and “fuck,” “bitch” is not covered
by the Federal Communications Commission’s guidelines on obscene, indecent, and
profane language.5 Columnist Theresa Schneider (2006) comments on this:
Under the definition of indecent language I can print the word “bitch” as
many times as I want, I but can’t say s---. The so-called standards of indecent
language protect children from poop but allow impressionable listeners and
viewers to learn that calling a woman a bitch is not only socially acceptable,
but normal and sometimes funny. Essentially, by allowing “bitch” and not
“s---”, the FCC exposes children to the idea that it is OK to degrade women
what do they say of the word "sissy"? that is also based on "women are less".

while i do find people who like to refer to women as "bitches" rather puerile and not worth my time, i think there are bigger issues that need to be tackled when it comes to emancipation of women(in the western context) - the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society, for instance.
Have you ever noticed that only good looking people insist on not insisting on it

not true. i do know a lot of people who are comfortable being who they are and not obsessed about meeting the standard notion of what "looking good" is. there is a lot of stress on teenager girls to look good and it turns into an obsession almost and instead of spending the most critical time of their lives developing their minds, many of them focus on preening themselves to look good for the opposite sex and their self-worth is defined by this.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:16 pm

bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
what do they say of the word "sissy"? that is also based on "women are less".

while i do find people who like to refer to women as "bitches" rather puerile and not worth my time, i think there are bigger issues that need to be tackled when it comes to emancipation of women(in the western context) - the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society, for instance.
Have you ever noticed that only good looking people insist on not insisting on it

not true. i do know a lot of people who are comfortable being who they are and not obsessed about meeting the standard notion of what "looking good" is. there is a lot of stress on teenager girls to look good and it turns into an obsession almost and instead of spending the most critical time of their lives developing their minds, many of them focus on preening themselves to look good for the opposite sex and their self-worth is defined by this.[/quote]
OK.

by garam_kuta Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:14 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
bw wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
what do they say of the word "sissy"? that is also based on "women are less".

while i do find people who like to refer to women as "bitches" rather puerile and not worth my time, i think there are bigger issues that need to be tackled when it comes to emancipation of women(in the western context) - the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society, for instance.
Have you ever noticed that only good looking people insist on not insisting on it

not true. i do know a lot of people who are comfortable being who they are and not obsessed about meeting the standard notion of what "looking good" is. there is a lot of stress on teenager girls to look good and it turns into an obsession almost and instead of spending the most critical time of their lives developing their minds, many of them focus on preening themselves to look good for the opposite sex and their self-worth is defined by this.

OK.[/quote]

andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:26 am

garam_kuta wrote:
andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi

but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds.

by Merlot Daruwala Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:54 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi
but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds.

Yeah, but look at the outcomes - eye candy wherever you see. Or would you prefer to watch uglies with beautiful minds?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:06 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi
but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds.
Yeah, but look at the outcomes - eye candy wherever you see. Or would you prefer to watch uglies with beautiful minds?

MD -- that's not what i meant. i too like eye candy as much as the next guy, but i think there is some balance to be struck somewhere. parenting brings a whole other perspective to these matters.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:07 am

"the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society."

What is the definition of beauty by the society? Society=all the societies in the world? Is there a standard definition for all? If so, what is it? What are the required criteria by the society which makes one beautiful?

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:11 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi
but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds.
Yeah, but look at the outcomes - eye candy wherever you see. Or would you prefer to watch uglies with beautiful minds?
MD -- that's not what i meant. i too like eye candy as much as the next guy, but i think there is some balance to be struck somewhere. parenting brings a whole other perspective to these matters.

I met my friends back in india who are pretty obese and happy being who they are. They are comfortable about their bodies and so don't work on it at all. Not surprisingly, their kids are obese too. Is that how it should be?

by bw Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:19 am

kinnera wrote:"the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society."

What is the definition of beauty by the society? Society=all the societies in the world? Is there a standard definition for all? If so, what is it? What are the required criteria by the society which makes one beautiful?

i said the western context - am not referring to people wanting to stay fit and healthy and exercising regularly for that. there is a long gap between staying fit and obsessing over size 0 and trying to achieve it through crazy diets, surgery etc.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:54 am

bw wrote:
kinnera wrote:"the obsession with looking good, as defined by the society."

What is the definition of beauty by the society? Society=all the societies in the world? Is there a standard definition for all? If so, what is it? What are the required criteria by the society which makes one beautiful?
i said the western context - am not referring to people wanting to stay fit and healthy and exercising regularly for that. there is a long gap between staying fit and obsessing over size 0 and trying to achieve it through crazy diets, surgery etc.

That's the problem with low self-esteem. Once a reasonably high self esteem is achieved, they'll stop obsessing over size 0 and tying to achieve it through crazy diets, surgery, etc. As vids said, "as long as they have a reasonably high self esteem, more than half their problems are already resolved", which is true. One needs to work on the cause, not the symptoms.

Not caring about one's bodies and looks (like my friends in india) =! high self-esteem. In fact, a happy and confident person takes good care of his/her body, is well groomed and tries to look good.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:42 am

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
andrum, indrum endrumae (hopefully)
aaL pAdhi, aadai pAdhi
but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds.
Yeah, but look at the outcomes - eye candy wherever you see. Or would you prefer to watch uglies with beautiful minds?
MD -- that's not what i meant. i too like eye candy as much as the next guy, but i think there is some balance to be struck somewhere. parenting brings a whole other perspective to these matters.
I met my friends back in india who are pretty obese and happy being who they are. They are comfortable about their bodies and so don't work on it at all. Not surprisingly, their kids are obese too. Is that how it should be?

this is a non sequitur. i don't think bw was recommending anything like that nor was i agreeing with something like that. some people refer to scarlet johanssen as "fat".

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:46 am

anyway bromides about self esteem are not particularly useful. most indians raising kids in the US or elsewhere have a reasonable level of common sense for such bromides to be useful, but peer pressure is a much stronger force of nature than people let on in honest discussions about kids.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:56 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:anyway bromides about self esteem are not particularly useful. most indians raising kids in the US or elsewhere have a reasonable level of common sense for such bromides to be useful, but peer pressure is a much stronger force of nature than people let on in honest discussions about kids.

someone's ego is hurt here.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:12 am

kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:anyway bromides about self esteem are not particularly useful. most indians raising kids in the US or elsewhere have a reasonable level of common sense for such bromides to be useful, but peer pressure is a much stronger force of nature than people let on in honest discussions about kids.
someone's ego is hurt here.

Girls are more susceptible to peer pressure than boys, and it gets worse in the teen age years and early college years.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:51 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:anyway bromides about self esteem are not particularly useful. most indians raising kids in the US or elsewhere have a reasonable level of common sense for such bromides to be useful.

Good if you don't have this concern for your kids. I have a different experience and concerns, so that's where I come from.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:55 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:anyway bromides about self esteem are not particularly useful. most indians raising kids in the US or elsewhere have a reasonable level of common sense for such bromides to be useful.
Good if you don't have this concern for your kids. I have a different experience and concerns, so that's where I come from.

He is not THERE yet.

by Petrichor Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:15 pm

Either you can get invited to sleep-overs and sweet 16 bday parties complete with vegetarian food tours of the city, while wearing vineyard vines and 'preppy' outfits and discussing Style & Boys endlessly over 'meal plan' cafeteria lunches, listening to hip-hop and reading news about north west OR choose old navy, loneliness and the pinnacle of pre-calculus, pious poojas with neighborhood 'aunties'. Actually, that just represents the extremes of a continuum, and you need to move the cursor to a point where everyone is comfortable. I have found meta-level talks, and roasting every one of the points along that continuum is an effective and humorous way of escaping the hamster wheel.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:44 pm

They're both equally offensive.

What I really dislike is when my gay male friends refer to the cattier ones among them as "bitchy queens." As a woman and a mom to two sweet dogs (soon will be three dogs because we're looking to adopt a German Shepard puppy), I find that disturbing.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:56 pm

I don't see anything wrong with looking good. My husband may respect my education, career, independence, hobbies...but I assure you he wouldn't be happy if I looked like a whale (I have to eat healthy, high protein/fiber meals and snacks and lift weights to rev up my metabolism), if I didn't get an attractive haircut, shave, wax, tweeze, get regular facials to keep my skin looking good, drink lots of water and get lots of sleep, go to the dentist to keep my teeth looking great,and walk around in sweatpants all day. I'm not saying he would leave me, but I'm sure he would start finding his sick patients more attractive than me...and that's not good. Likewise, I expect him to look good for me.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:57 pm

Not walk around in sweatpants all day.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:01 pm

mainstreet wrote:I don't see anything wrong with looking good. (much irrelevance delted)

have you taken a philosophy class during your undergraduate years? this is a classic example of what is known as a strawman, i.e. refute a point that nobody has made.

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:09 pm

what is your point in this statement, Max?

"but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds."

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:27 pm

Exactly! Thanks, VB. Also, Upilli mentioned something about society's obsession with looking good. We can't all be Aishwarya Rai, but we can be well-groomed and try to have a healthy lifestyle. Why does developing your mind and maintaining your looks have to be mutually exclusive?

Besides, once men start ogling at ugly hags, we women will all start aspiring to look like them.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:36 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:what is your point in this statement, Max?

"but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds."

that there is a balance of investment of time and mental space in a teen's life between two sometimes conflicting objectives: (a) obsession with looking good, bordering on preening and brought on by peer pressure and (b) time spent on academics, music, dance, and other extra curricular activities. sometimes peer pressure and society's expectations skew this balance entirely towards (a) which interferes in mental development.

i bet this balance ultimately has an impact on one's net economic worth too (unless the only goal is to find and marry a rich guy or a working stiff who has the potential to become very rich in which case i withdraw my objection).

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