Re: are these two insults equivalent?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:38 pm

mainstreet wrote: Why does developing your mind and maintaining your looks have to be mutually exclusive?

nobody said it is. but there is mutual exclusivity between being a complete total gym rat (probably combined with starving in the case of women) and learning some skills which make one a productive human being.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:42 pm

Petrichor wrote:Either you can get invited to sleep-overs and sweet 16 bday parties complete with vegetarian food tours of the city, while wearing vineyard vines and 'preppy' outfits and discussing Style & Boys endlessly over 'meal plan' cafeteria lunches, listening to hip-hop and reading news about north west OR choose old navy, loneliness and the pinnacle of pre-calculus, pious poojas with neighborhood 'aunties'. Actually, that just represents the extremes of a continuum, and you need to move the cursor to a point where everyone is comfortable. I have found meta-level talks, and roasting every one of the points along that continuum is an effective and humorous way of escaping the hamster wheel.

the peer group here (not entirely indian), in fact the entire school, is fortunately comprised of kids whose value system emphasizes mind over minikkifying. still they are young and there will be such conflicts.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:45 pm

what are meta-level talks? i am afraid i don't understand buzz words like that. meta-level talk = let's talk about the big picture and what is really important in life?

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:45 pm

Every person, more so girls, ultimately arrive at a point where they are happy and comfortable with the way they look. It may be upto the society's standards, it may be upto their own standards, or dictated by parents, who knows. Point is, almost everyone struggles with this atleast at one point in their lives. For some it's quick, for some it extends for decades and is an ever changing process. It's not an easy process too, it's a lot of work to look good. Much more work to look dazzling. No good look happens by accident, even if you were born naturally pretty.

Teenage is the age when everyone struggles the most with self image issues. A teen will look at herself from 10 different angles in the mirror for hours, changing 5 outfits, hairstyles, shoes, makeup, and hating them all, and then deciding she doesn't want to go to a party coz she looks UGLY. I have gone through that stage myself. And I remember my dad standing there patiently, watching my teen angst, accepting it, and saying it's a normal teen angst. Thank God he was patient and not only understood it, but respected it too. I would have bursted if he had stood there lecturing me to develop my mind when the top right lock of my hair was standing out awkwardly when I turned my face by 40 degrees.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:Every person, more so girls, ultimately arrive at a point where they are happy and comfortable with the way they look. It may be upto the society's standards, it may be upto their own standards, or dictated by parents, who knows. Point is, almost everyone struggles with this atleast at one point in their lives. For some it's quick, for some it extends for decades and is an ever changing process. It's not an easy process too, it's a lot of work to look good. Much more work to look dazzling. No good look happens by accident, even if you were born naturally pretty.

Teenage is the age when everyone struggles the most with self image issues. A teen will look at herself from 10 different angles in the mirror for hours, changing 5 outfits, hairstyles, shoes, makeup, and hating them all, and then deciding she doesn't want to go to a party coz she looks UGLY. I have gone through that stage myself. And I remember my dad standing there patiently, watching my teen angst, accepting it, and saying it's a normal teen angst. Thank God he was patient and not only understood it, but respected it too. I would have bursted if he had stood there lecturing me to develop my mind when the top right lock of my hair was standing out awkwardly when I turned my face by 40 degrees.

you said you didn't get my point. did you get it now?

by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:05 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:what is your point in this statement, Max?

"but this is not about Adai. it is about maintaining a body type with idealized proportions and subjecting oneself to all manner of torture to achieve said proportions. bw is right it affects young women and increasingly young men as well in western societies and takes away precious time and mental space and energy from developing their minds."
that there is a balance of investment of time and mental space in a teen's life between two sometimes conflicting objectives: (a) obsession with looking good, bordering on preening and brought on by peer pressure and (b) time spent on academics, music, dance, and other extra curricular activities. sometimes peer pressure and society's expectations skew this balance entirely towards (a) which interferes in mental development.

i bet this balance ultimately has an impact on one's net economic worth too (unless the only goal is to find and marry a rich guy or a working stiff who has the potential to become very rich in which case i withdraw my objection).

The whole society is based on peer pressure. You would be super naive to not acknowledge the positive impacts of society and peer pressure on an individual before you began complaining about it.

A person wanting to look good is not always due to some peer pressure. There is something called self image that everyone has, and as a parent, one should respect that and let the kid grow in that aspect too, if the kid wants to grow that part of her personality.

I completely agree with your point about keeping a balance, but if you are faced with the situation of (a) happening too much, I would recommend getting involved in aspect (a) to bring (a) down by positive re-inforcement, instead of pitching aspect (b) forward and hoping that that would bring (a) down. May not happen.

by Petrichor Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:what are meta-level talks? i am afraid i don't understand buzz words like that. meta-level talk = let's talk about the big picture and what is really important in life?

What I meant to say was that if the teenage girls are shown the why's and how's of their own peer group and understand at an intellectual level the reasons behind clique-formation, style police and 'coolness' factors, they will be better able to navigate the peer pressures that impact them.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:12 pm

I always found the frumpy women in college boring on so many levels. Just too nerdy and no enthusiasm for anything outside of math, science, blah, blah.

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:21 pm

I always found the South Indian women boring. No makeup, no jewelry, no fashion sense, so frumpy and workaholic.

As a former manager, I had a lot more respect for those employees who came into work early, got their work done efficiently, and left for a life outside of work (triathlon training, mentoring kids after work, whatever). The ones who were working ALL THE TIME were actually the ones who had very little to offer as employees as well as to the world.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:30 pm

mainstreet wrote:I always found the South Indian women boring. No makeup, no jewelry, no fashion sense, so frumpy and workaholic.

As a former manager, I had a lot more respect for those employees who came into work early, got their work done efficiently, and left for a life outside of work (triathlon training, mentoring kids after work, whatever). The ones who were working ALL THE TIME were actually the ones who had very little to offer as employees as well as to the world.

two comments:

(a) that woman that you held up as a model of beauty (she does nothing for me, but that's another matter), aishwarya rai, is a southern indian.

(b) you are hardly in any position to judge work life balance of other women. you are the only person here complaining about being stuck in the boonies amongst rednecks.

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:38 pm

I actually think Aishwarya Rai is fat and has horrible teeth that protrude. All of that aside, I find her incredibly boring. I haven't seen any of her movies but I saw her on David Letterman and that was BORING.

I may be in the boondocks now, but I haven't lived here all my life. That Little Big Town song doesn't apply to me. I was NOT born and raised in the boondocks...maybe I should pen some lyrics about that.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:20 pm

mainstreet wrote:I actually think Aishwarya Rai is fat and has horrible teeth that protrude. All of that aside, I find her incredibly boring. I haven't seen any of her movies but I saw her on David Letterman and that was BORING.

then what was this about?

We can't all be Aishwarya Rai, but we can be well-groomed and try to have a healthy lifestyle.

mainstreet wrote: I was NOT born and raised in the boondocks...maybe I should pen some lyrics about that.

but you are on the boonies now and whining a lot. so either quit whining or quit judging other women.

by bw Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:21 pm

mainstreet wrote:Exactly! Thanks, VB. Also, Upilli mentioned something about society's obsession with looking good. We can't all be Aishwarya Rai, but we can be well-groomed and try to have a healthy lifestyle. Why does developing your mind and maintaining your looks have to be mutually exclusive?

Besides, once men start ogling at ugly hags, we women will all start aspiring to look like them.

haha - so much for emancipation of women! groom yourself, stay fit etc. because you want to be so.

i hear "thigh gap" is the latest obsession.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:06 pm

bw wrote:
mainstreet wrote:Exactly! Thanks, VB. Also, Upilli mentioned something about society's obsession with looking good. We can't all be Aishwarya Rai, but we can be well-groomed and try to have a healthy lifestyle. Why does developing your mind and maintaining your looks have to be mutually exclusive?

Besides, once men start ogling at ugly hags, we women will all start aspiring to look like them.
haha - so much for emancipation of women! groom yourself, stay fit etc. because you want to be so.

i hear "thigh gap" is the latest obsession.

Finally....there is something that I don't know.....

by b_A Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:53 pm

mainstreet wrote:I always found the South Indian women boring. No makeup, no jewelry, no fashion sense, so frumpy and workaholic.

As a former manager, I had a lot more respect for those employees who came into work early, got their work done efficiently, and left for a life outside of work (triathlon training, mentoring kids after work, whatever). The ones who were working ALL THE TIME were actually the ones who had very little to offer as employees as well as to the world.

Really ? What were you managing ? A Subway or Taco Bell ? Or is it Patel Brothers grocery stores?

by gone Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:31 pm

That's because Aishwarya Rai is pretty when she doesn't smile with her mouth open and when she was slimmer. If you have a problem with women critiquing other women or whining about their boring town, then maybe you should do something about it. For instance, quit reading my posts. Or block me. Duh!

by Kris Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:23 pm

Petrichor wrote: you need to move the cursor to a point where everyone is comfortable. I have found meta-level talks, and roasting every one of the points along that continuum is an effective and humorous way of escaping the hamster wheel.

>>>Yep. It is also a clever way of keeping the channels communication open on a variety of subjects. The "meta" aspect puts some distance between the issue being seen as personal and is a nice lead-in. Out-of-the-box thinking rules! Smile

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:36 am

mainstreet wrote:Besides, once men start ogling at ugly hags, we women will all start aspiring to look like them.

Aiyyo..you'll become whatever the oglers around you want you to be??

I smell some low self-esteem in the room...

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:40 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
mainstreet wrote:Besides, once men start ogling at ugly hags, we women will all start aspiring to look like them.
Aiyyo..you'll become whatever the oglers around you want you to be??

I smell some low self-esteem in the room...

>>>>In fairness to the ugly ones, I must invoke the old adage ' beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes to the bone'. There, I have done my good deed for the day.

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:58 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote: And I remember my dad standing there patiently, watching my teen angst, accepting it, and saying it's a normal teen angst. Thank God he was patient and not only understood it, but respected it too. I would have bursted if he had stood there lecturing me to develop my mind when the top right lock of my hair was standing out awkwardly when I turned my face by 40 degrees.

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:29 am

mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.

>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:00 am

Kris wrote:
mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.
>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!

Check.

by bw Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:05 am

Kris wrote:
Petrichor wrote: you need to move the cursor to a point where everyone is comfortable. I have found meta-level talks, and roasting every one of the points along that continuum is an effective and humorous way of escaping the hamster wheel.
>>>Yep. It is also a clever way of keeping the channels communication open on a variety of subjects. The "meta" aspect puts some distance between the issue being seen as personal and is a nice lead-in. Out-of-the-box thinking rules!

what is this "meta"?

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:35 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Kris wrote:
mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.
>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!
Check.

>>>Damn, you are right! For a minute, I thought we were in the presence of perfection incarnate. So close, so close..

by Merlot Daruwala Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:39 am

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:41 am

bw wrote:
Kris wrote:
Petrichor wrote: you need to move the cursor to a point where everyone is comfortable. I have found meta-level talks, and roasting every one of the points along that continuum is an effective and humorous way of escaping the hamster wheel.
>>>Yep. It is also a clever way of keeping the channels communication open on a variety of subjects. The "meta" aspect puts some distance between the issue being seen as personal and is a nice lead-in. Out-of-the-box thinking rules!
:scratch:what is this "meta"?

>>>Meta= higher level of abstraction (also, a ploy to trap your offspring into a dialogue under the pretext of a philosophical discussion, but your real intent is to elicit specifics in the course of said dialogue)* Smile

*

by Guest Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:31 am

Kris wrote:
mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.
>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!

You don't TALK about Bollywood dancing. You just do it, duh.

by Kris Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:04 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Kris wrote:
mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.
>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!
You don't TALK about Bollywood dancing. You just do it, duh.

>>>.Ok, turban ready, maha/pun/guj girls in lehngas ready, tree (to run around) ready...I am going in.
Smile

by Guest Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:10 am

Kris wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Kris wrote:
mainstreet wrote:

The coolest chicks could talk makeup, shopping, parties, dancing, mani-pedi, gym, cardio, weights, museums, music festivals, art festivals, hair salons, shoes, clothes, dandiya raas, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, work, career, math, science, literature, books, med school, law school, B-school, EVERYTHING. They were always the Punjus, Gujjus, and Maharashtrian girls.
>>>Seriously? and no Bollywood dancing? Wow!
You don't TALK about Bollywood dancing. You just do it, duh.
>>>.Ok, turban ready, maha/pun/guj girls in lehngas ready, tree (to run around) ready...I am going in.

maha/pun/guj girls in lehengas ready
to dance under a tree
now you da turbaned-dude Krissie!!

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:13 am

Forget all that....Now I am into Thigh Gap study and have been looking at the "strategic location" of "half" the population.

My preliminary observation is that Thigh Gap is not desirable - it is almost like gap between the two front teeth. Only a few might consider it good.

by Guest Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:18 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Forget all that....Now I am into Thigh Gap study and have been looking at the "strategic location" of "half" the population.

My preliminary observation is that Thigh Gap is not desirable - it is almost like gap between the two front teeth. Only a few might consider it good.

Up until I was in 7th grade and painfully skinny, I had the above mentioned thigh gap, and I was somehow ashamed of it, wore skirts not pants, coz I didn't feel girly enough like my other more developed friends. Was happy when I eventually developed what later came to be known as the thunder thighs. All that changed around 3 years ago when I saw a jogger with one, and began desiring the above mentioned gap again and a friend lol'ed and said, forget it, not happening, just lose 30-40 lbs and make your peace.

by bw Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:22 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Forget all that....Now I am into Thigh Gap study and have been looking at the "strategic location" of "half" the population.

My preliminary observation is that Thigh Gap is not desirable - it is almost like gap between the two front teeth. Only a few might consider it good.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/2013/08/19/weekly-challenge-stop-striving-for-thigh-gap-six-pack-abs/m2CBS6OBhgqJ42GChFPAuO/blog.html

by Sponsored content