just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India.

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly.

How many suchers married across caste lines? 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation.

What are the observations of other suchers?

Rashmun wrote:I am going in for an inter-regional marriage. That is my contribution towards greater homogeneity amongst Indians.

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India.

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly.

How many suchers married across caste lines? 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation.

What are the observations of other suchers?

Propagandhi711 wrote:

Rashmun wrote:I am going in for an inter-regional marriage. That is my contribution towards greater homogeneity amongst Indians.

how is inter-regional marriage going to promote homogeneity? brahmin marrying a brahmin from the next village...big earthshaking change indeed

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India. ----- yes, at least first time with statistics (assuming its good data)

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly. ------- it happens. 

How many suchers married across caste lines? ------- there may be some. 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. ------- not just brahmins; its prevalent in all castes (e.g., malas and madigas vs. different varieties of kapus, kammas, reddys, balijas etc.). 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation. ----- yes, we see it in our own families.

What are the observations of other suchers? ------ mine are there already. 

Kris wrote:

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India.

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly.

How many suchers married across caste lines? 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation.

What are the observations of other suchers?

>>>In general, people get married to those similar to themselves. As the world as opened up, this means people with similar cultural experiences. If you grow up in suburban America, regardless of where your parents are from, that subset will cut across racial, ethnic origins. That is probably too of people who grow up in urban India via-a-vis caste. Rural India is probably where caste identity will be more or less intact.

Idéfix wrote:

Kris wrote:

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India.

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly.

How many suchers married across caste lines? 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation.

What are the observations of other suchers?

>>>In general, people get married to those similar to themselves. As the world as opened up, this means people with similar cultural experiences. If you grow up in suburban America, regardless of where your parents are from, that subset will cut across racial, ethnic origins. That is probably too of people who grow up in urban India via-a-vis caste. Rural India is probably where caste identity will be more or less intact.

I expected a strong urban rural divide on this as well, but the survey data seem to indicate otherwise. For inter caste marriage, the urban rate is 5.37% and the rural rate is 5.32%. For untouchability, which has been illegal for 65 years now, the urban rate is 30% and the rural rate is 20%.

truthbetold wrote:

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

indophile wrote:

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India. ----- yes, at least first time with statistics (assuming its good data)

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly. ------- it happens. 

How many suchers married across caste lines? ------- there may be some. 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. ------- not just brahmins; its prevalent in all castes (e.g., malas and madigas vs. different varieties of kapus, kammas, reddys, balijas etc.). 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation. ----- yes, we see it in our own families.

What are the observations of other suchers? ------ mine are there already. 

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

nobody i know practices untouchability.  aside -- caste based violence particularly against dalits is an endemic problem in TN. most of the castes that engage in this violence are labeled as OBCs.  

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:why would anyone make marital choices to contribute to some social agenda? that seems stupid.  generally people choose partners based on mutual physical attraction, intellectual compatibility, and compatibility of values.

truthbetold wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

nobody i know practices untouchability.  aside -- caste based violence particularly against dalits is an endemic problem in TN. most of the castes that engage in this violence are labeled as OBCs.  

Max,

The statistics show that your world is much more insular than the real India.

truthbetold wrote:

indophile wrote:

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India. ----- yes, at least first time with statistics (assuming its good data)

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly. ------- it happens. 

How many suchers married across caste lines? ------- there may be some. 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. ------- not just brahmins; its prevalent in all castes (e.g., malas and madigas vs. different varieties of kapus, kammas, reddys, balijas etc.). 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation. ----- yes, we see it in our own families.

What are the observations of other suchers? ------ mine are there already. 

Indo,

I am in general agreement with your observations.  One point I would like to emphasize is that while brahmins may feel a need for social discrimination due to cultural heritage,  the real root cause of continued survival of untocuhability is more due to economic oppression perpetuated by land owning classes in rural areas.  The solution to eliminate this problem should focus on economic upliftment (through employment) of these groups rather social lectures or arranging intercaste marriages.

Rashmun wrote:I am going in for an inter-regional marriage. That is my contribution towards greater homogeneity amongst Indians.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. 

nobody i know practices untouchability.  aside -- caste based violence particularly against dalits is an endemic problem in TN. most of the castes that engage in this violence are labeled as OBCs.  

Max,

The statistics show that your world is much more insular than the real India.

here are two interpretations of the statement, "nobody i know practices untouchability":

(a) nobody i know practices untouchability, therefore i believe that it does not exist.
(b) nobody i know practices untouchability, but based on documented evidence i believe it exists.

it is reasonable to draw conclusion (b) based on what i wrote following the first sentence. if you want to take a dig at what i wrote, be my guest, but do so in a reasonable and sensible way.

indophile wrote:

truthbetold wrote:

indophile wrote:

truthbetold wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/data/just-5-per-cent-of-indian-marriages-are-intercaste/article6591502.ece?homepage=true

This is one of the first serious attempt I have seen to find the reality of caste in India. ----- yes, at least first time with statistics (assuming its good data)

There are lot of seculars who talk big but balk at taking the big step including yours truly. ------- it happens. 

How many suchers married across caste lines? ------- there may be some. 

More news for seva.  To my surpprise untouchability is still widely practised in India. Brahmins , obviously, lead the pack but the other castes follow right behind. ------- not just brahmins; its prevalent in all castes (e.g., malas and madigas vs. different varieties of kapus, kammas, reddys, balijas etc.). 

However there is lot of promise in the next generation.  in my extended family,  children in usa have no concept of caste. They cross religious, language and racial lines in interactions and marriages. Their Indian counter parts have crossed caste lines more often than my generation. ----- yes, we see it in our own families.

What are the observations of other suchers? ------ mine are there already. 

Indo,

I am in general agreement with your observations.  One point I would like to emphasize is that while brahmins may feel a need for social discrimination due to cultural heritage,  the real root cause of continued survival of untocuhability is more due to economic oppression perpetuated by land owning classes in rural areas.  The solution to eliminate this problem should focus on economic upliftment (through employment) of these groups rather social lectures or arranging intercaste marriages.

I agree with your observation about economic upliftment. However, I do not agree that it's only Brahmins who feel a need for social discrimination for whatever reason and so practice it. All castes practice discrimination including, believe it or not, the so called untouchables themselves among their various subcastes (e.g., mala vs. madiga). In the area where I come from, there are various castes among adibaasis (hill tribes) such as - parija, domb, gadaba, savara. majji. chondaal, and so on. They are all classified as scheduled tribes. During village festivals and feasts, a gadaba refuses to sit next to a domb, and if a parija girl is fingered by a chondaal he is either beaten black and blue or even worse.

Idéfix wrote:

I expected a strong urban rural divide on this as well, but the survey data seem to indicate otherwise. For inter caste marriage, the urban rate is 5.37% and the rural rate is 5.32%. For untouchability, which has been illegal for 65 years now, the urban rate is 30% and the rural rate is 20%.

truthbetold wrote:
Indo,

the conflicts between groups/jatis/tribes exist in all parts of the world and inter marriages are limited between tribes in many parts of the world.  But these tribes live away from one another as different groups till the modern life brought them together. 
 
The difference in Hindu religion is that these castes lived in the same village for a very long time but were living as isolated sub groups for marriage purposes. European restrictions between noble vs commoner marriages and middle eastern restrictions on marriages between different trading tribes that live in the same vicinity. But only Hindu tradition was able to institutionalize the groups as caste and created  stifling caste silos. 

My theory is that the strength of caste system in modern era lies in economic exploitation of "lower castes" and this phenomena uses cultural heritage induced social discrimination to its advantage.

indophile wrote:

truthbetold wrote:
Indo,

the conflicts between groups/jatis/tribes exist in all parts of the world and inter marriages are limited between tribes in many parts of the world.  But these tribes live away from one another as different groups till the modern life brought them together. 
 
The difference in Hindu religion is that these castes lived in the same village for a very long time but were living as isolated sub groups for marriage purposes. European restrictions between noble vs commoner marriages and middle eastern restrictions on marriages between different trading tribes that live in the same vicinity. But only Hindu tradition was able to institutionalize the groups as caste and created  stifling caste silos. 

My theory is that the strength of caste system in modern era lies in economic exploitation of "lower castes" and this phenomena uses cultural heritage induced social discrimination to its advantage.

TBT:
The tribes I mentioned earlier have been living side-by-side for generations in the same village in most cases. I doubt if your theory always holds good. With the reservation system in place there are many scheduled cast/scheduled tribe/dalit folks who have climbed up the economic ladder (the so called creamy layer). They are definitely not being economically exploited, and if anything, they have been the exploiters of the system. But still, their economic well-being is not a panacea for social interaction at large.