Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

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Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:07 am

New scientific research has proved that the supposedly "discredited" Aryan Race Theory may have been right after all. This theory argued that fair-haired, light-eyed Nordic warriors, having tamed the horse and invented the wheel, conquered most of Europe, much of the Middle East and Northern India thousands of years ago, bringing with them the family of languages that used to be known as Aryan, and are now known as Indo-European, spoken from Ireland to the Bay of Bengal.

The Indo-European family of languages includes Modern English, German, French, Italian, Irish, Greek, Russian and indeed all European languages apart from Finnish, Hungarian and Basque, together with Iranian, Pashtu, Hindi, Gujarati, Bengali. Sinhalese and other Northern (or originally Northern) Indian languages. The kinship can still be seen in basic words like one, two, three--amhain (pronounced awan), dha, tri in Irish, une, deux, trois in French, unus, duo, tres in Latin, eins, zwei, drei in German, einn, tver, thrir in Icelandic, odin, dva, tri in Russian, ena, duo, tria in Greek. Compared to yksi, kaski, kolme in unrelated Finnish.

In the ancestor of the Indian branch of this language family, Sanskrit, it's eka, dva, treya. The people who spoke that language swept into the plains of Northern India almost 4,000 years ago as chariot-riding conquerors, calling themselves Aryas, "lords." On the way they gave their name to Iran, derived from "Aryan." Others swept eastward, where for a thousand years an Indo-European language, Tocharian, was spoken in what is now Chinese Turkestan. Suggestion that this ancient race of more-advanced conquerors were blonde-haired, blue-eyed Nordics were dismissed since 1945 as "discredited"--i.e., Politically Incorrect rather than proved wrong. Linking race and culture was a big academic career-ending no-no.

But meanwhile archaeologists and historians of languages, avoding such explosive topics, managed to link the Proto-Indo-Europeans, the conquerors before they exploded from their homeland, to the Bronze Age Androvonovo Culture, based in western Siberia and what is now Kazakhstan. The remains of the people themselves were buried in great mounds, like later Viking and Anglo-Saxon barrows and howes, known as kurgans.

Now geneticists have examined the DNA of these Proto-Indo-Europeans, or Aryans as they probably called themselves and were called until the PC shutters came down, extracted from their ancient tombs. The results are deeply Politically Incorrect, as revealed in three seminal papers.


It turns out that genetically the Proto-Indo-Europeans buried in the steppe kurgan graves 5,000 years ago were identical with modern Western and Northern Europeans belonging to the Nordic sub-race. About 60% had light hair and blue and green eyes. 

It wasn't until much later that the gene complexes associated with other racial types appeared in the Central Asian steppe north of the deserts and irrigated farming zone--not until Turkic speakers started moving west, in fact. The Turks originated in the Iron Mountains of Western Mongolia, which they began to spread out of 2,000 years ago--a fact relevant to their descendants' claim to be "Europeans" who should be let into the EU.

The typical steppe nomad horseman before the Turks and later the Mongols spread west, and the typical Aryan who brought what is now Hinduism to India and gave his speech to almost every nation from the Bay of Bengal to the Atlantic looked, it is now clear from the evidence, like a modern Dane or Norwegian. And indeed do the mummified remains of the Tocharian speakers in what is now Chinese Turkestan, who have blonde and red hair. So, incidentally, did many early Pharoahs of Egypt.

It is also clear from the appearance of most speakers of Indo-Aryan languages today in Pakistan, Northern India, Blackburn, Leicester and a corner shop near you, that significant interbreeding has occurred between conquerors and conquered in the 4,000 years since...




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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:18 am

In 2005, K. Thangaraj and his colleagues at CCMB published their findings about the origin of Andaman islanders in the journal Science. The Onge turned out to have surprisingly unmixed origins. They had likely lived isolated in the islands since the arrival here of the first group of humans out of Africa. There were mutations in their mtDNA that were found nowhere else in the world. These mutations must have originated here and not spread. The Onge were an untouched link to the earliest humans who settled the planet.



Almost all Indian groups had inherited varying portions of their ancestry from a population related to western Eurasians. Most Indians alive today are descended from a mixture of two very different populations, Reich and colleagues reported in Nature in 2009 based on a study of 25 ethnic groups. These two populations—the red and green of the earlier analogy—were given the names Ancestral North Indians (ANI) and Ancestral South Indians (ASI). The ASI, likely aboriginal inhabitants of India since no trace of them is found outside the subcontinent, were a sister population of the Onge. The two must have diverged after being separated, one on the mainland, one on the islands. The ANI showed genetic similarities with Europeans, Middle Easterners, and Central Asians. Some ANI ancestry was present in almost all Indian groups, but the percentage was found to be greater in the north of India and lesser in the south—for example, Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent. Broadly, groups that spoke IndoEuropean languages and were traditionally considered upper-caste had a larger ANI component. No groups in mainland India were seen with only ASI ancestry. The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry. At some time in the past, these two very different populations had inter-bred, and at some later point the castes, clans, communities and tribes we see now had formed as endogamous groups that only married within themselves. 

[url=http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain Ink - December 2013 - Cover.pdf]http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf[/url]

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:18 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Almost all Indian groups had inherited varying portions of their ancestry from a population related to western Eurasians. Most Indians alive today are descended from a mixture of two very different populations, Reich and colleagues reported in Nature in 2009 based on a study of 25 ethnic groups. These two populations—the red and green of the earlier analogy—were given the names Ancestral North Indians (ANI) and Ancestral South Indians (ASI). The ASI, likely aboriginal inhabitants of India since no trace of them is found outside the subcontinent, were a sister population of the Onge. 

[url=http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain Ink - December 2013 - Cover.pdf]http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reichlab/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf[/url]
There is a major flaw in the hypothesis branding ASI and ANI as genetically distinct / separate groups. 

If the European and other foreign genes and genetic markers could travel thousands of rugged miles (including high mountains and vast deserts) to take over the north Indian plains and  becoming a genetic part of people in north India (as ANI), then how come those same foreign genes and genetic markers were not able to jump over and travel across the puny Vindhyas from north India to become a part of people in south India thus leaving the ASI as a separate group genetically?   The answer of course is that the genetic or genetic marker differences in people across India are more due to long term weather / climate differences (as epigentically) and not due to some types of major population migrations from abroad. Here is more on this in the following.

" Considering the special genetic markers could travel long ago in abundance (affecting 30% to 50% of Indian population today) over thousands of rugged and treacherous miles to South India from the Middle East and from Europe / Central Asia to North India, then what halted their significant spillover and spread across the puny Vindhyas into North India (for Middle Eastern genetic markers via South India ) and South India (for European / Central Asian genetic markers via North India), initially (at the time of arrival from the Middle East or Europe / Central Asia) and during the subsequent thousands of years? ....." ... http://such.forumotion.com/t19332-genetic-testing-issues-in-the-study-of-ancient-population-migrations-in-india-includes-info-about-the-out-of-africa-theory

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:27 pm

Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:47 pm

Rashmun wrote:Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:51 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:59 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:04 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:58 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Seva, that article is saying that the ASI people were probably all aboriginals (Adivasis).
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by MaxEntropy_Man on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:42 am

Two communities where I have seen colored eyes in India -- the Hebbar Iyengars and the Konkanastha Brahmans of Maharashtra. The former is jokingly explained as mischief wrought by the Brits. But there may be more to that. Aren't colored eyes recessive?
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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:06 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Two communities where I have seen colored eyes in India -- the Hebbar Iyengars and the Konkanastha Brahmans of Maharashtra. The former is jokingly explained as mischief wrought by the Brits.  But there may be more to that. Aren't colored eyes recessive?

i have also seen colored eyes in kashmiri brahmins and konkani brahmins. and the answer to your question is yes.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:10 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
So were the ANI people originally, all aboriginals (Adivasis) before supposedly coming under the influence of foreign (European and other) genes and genetic markers. The question is what halted those foreign / European genetic markers and genes  jumping over the puny Vindhyas from north India after traveling thousands of rugged miles from abroad and "infecting" the north Indian "Adivasis" (aboriginals)? The answer is simple as stated earlier -- the differences in genetic markers in different groups of people across India are mostly the epigenetic influence and manifestation due different kinds of long term weather / environment.

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:09 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

The 'jumping' did happen according to the article. As it says: "Kashmiri Pandits could trace about 70 per cent of their ancestry to the ANI people, and the Mala, a Dalit community from Andhra Pradesh, around 40 per cent."

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

caste (e.g. higher or lower caste) also manifests in the epigenetic markers -- families doing hard labor or no labor at all over generations can also influence the genetic make-up and markers, same as other environmental influences.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:14 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:

Read the whole article I listed earlier on genetic testing issues related to population migrations. The above seems more like an anomaly / accident then a general trend. Anyway, the sample size in the above is too small to draw any definite conclusion.

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

caste (e.g. higher or lower caste) also manifests in the epigenetic markers -- families doing hard labor or no labor at all over generations can also influence the genetic make-up and markers, same as other environmental influences.

even 3,000-5,000 years is not sufficient a time period for epigenetic markers to show up so drastically. Besides, when we say that all Indians, including South Indians, have a certain percentage of ANI genes in them we are talking about hard core genetics, and not epigenetics.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:21 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Not an anomaly if you notice this sentence in the article: "The Onge were the only group studied that showed absolutely no trace of ANI ancestry."

[Onge refers to an Adivasi tribe living in the Andaman islands.]
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

caste (e.g. higher or lower caste) also manifests in the epigenetic markers -- families doing hard labor or no labor at all over generations can also influence the genetic make-up and markers, same as other environmental influences.

even 3,000-5,000 years is not sufficient a time period for epigenetic markers to show up so drastically. Besides, when we say that all Indians, including South Indians, have a certain percentage of ANI genes in them we are talking about hard core  genetics, and not epigenetics.
some epigenetic markers can manifest even in one generation.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Rashmun on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:48 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
There is a greater chance of south-of-India Onge tribe (not "adi-vasis") having no ANI (north Indian type) genetic markers at all (exclusively) as a result of epigenetics (genetics involving long term environmental effects, I referred to earlier) than anything else.

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

caste (e.g. higher or lower caste) also manifests in the epigenetic markers -- families doing hard labor or no labor at all over generations can also influence the genetic make-up and markers, same as other environmental influences.

even 3,000-5,000 years is not sufficient a time period for epigenetic markers to show up so drastically. Besides, when we say that all Indians, including South Indians, have a certain percentage of ANI genes in them we are talking about hard core  genetics, and not epigenetics.
some epigenetic markers can manifest even in one generation.


The probability of this happening in humans approaches zero.

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Re: Did Rig Vedic Hindus have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Post by Seva Lamberdar on Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:11 am

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

The article clearly says that the ASI people were a sister population of the Onge. Had the ASI people existed today in mainland (Southern) India, without any genetic intermingling with other people, there would still be certain (perhaps minor) phenotypic differences with the Onge due to epigenetic reasons. But the point is that due to genetic intermingling all South Indians of today have ANI genes in them. And the article is saying that the higher the caste you belong to the more the percentage of ANI genes in you.

caste (e.g. higher or lower caste) also manifests in the epigenetic markers -- families doing hard labor or no labor at all over generations can also influence the genetic make-up and markers, same as other environmental influences.

even 3,000-5,000 years is not sufficient a time period for epigenetic markers to show up so drastically. Besides, when we say that all Indians, including South Indians, have a certain percentage of ANI genes in them we are talking about hard core  genetics, and not epigenetics.
some epigenetic markers can manifest even in one generation.


The probability of this happening in humans approaches zero.
I am talking about humans.

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