Amma died

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:F'ing toadies.

Anyway, ding dong the witch is dead. Can't wait for the other doddering old f'er to croak also.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:She is put on ECMO as a last resort. She will most likely die. I feel sad.

Maria S wrote:From what I know, she is on life support, as the rumors swirl around. 
If one has lived the life they wanted to for the most part, loved by many..they are blessed. And Jayalalitha is loved. 

The quote "Democracy is divided dictatorship" has some elements truth to it.

And like it or not *(and like them personally or not- and I have mixed views about both of them) Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi are historic leaders of Tamil Nadu, who are fearless and provided powerful leadership and forces to reckon with ..especially, when it comes to the Central Government. 

While corruption and self-interests are undeniable..Tamil Nadu has made spectacular progress in the last 40 years..under their leadership of both their major political parties and mostly similar policies..for women-it has been a golden age..with unprecedented opportunities, resources and financial support..every segment of society has benefited.  

*I do wonder how this will change..and if the Central Government will interfere more or minimize the political power of the State.

Now to Jayalalitha..I used to think calling her "Amma" was a big joke for many years..during my recent visits..the laughter mellowed..I have met many, many people..from the poor to the more affluent and highly educated who have genuine affection for her..personal stories of immediate assistance in the most efficient manner, when she was able to help. Whether it was economic, starting small businesses or just safety and security for women, apparently the assistance was quick in resolving matters. 

*She has plenty of political enemies- but her fearlessness is hard to deny. She kept her male-dominated party also under control, will be interesting to see how the AIADMK falls apart- or emerges with a new leader.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/jayalalithaas-new-biography-charts-her-journey-from-movie-queen-to-fearless-political-icon-3030018.html

This revolutionary woman- puratchi thalaivi's life journey is remarkable indeed!

southindian wrote:

Maria S wrote:From what I know, she is on life support, as the rumors swirl around. 
If one has lived the life they wanted to for the most part, loved by many..they are blessed. And Jayalalitha is loved. 

The quote "Democracy is divided dictatorship" has some elements truth to it.

And like it or not *(and like them personally or not- and I have mixed views about both of them) Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi are historic leaders of Tamil Nadu, who are fearless and provided powerful leadership and forces to reckon with ..especially, when it comes to the Central Government. 

While corruption and self-interests are undeniable..Tamil Nadu has made spectacular progress in the last 40 years..under their leadership of both their major political parties and mostly similar policies..for women-it has been a golden age..with unprecedented opportunities, resources and financial support..every segment of society has benefited.  

*I do wonder how this will change..and if the Central Government will interfere more or minimize the political power of the State.

Now to Jayalalitha..I used to think calling her "Amma" was a big joke for many years..during my recent visits..the laughter mellowed..I have met many, many people..from the poor to the more affluent and highly educated who have genuine affection for her..personal stories of immediate assistance in the most efficient manner, when she was able to help. Whether it was economic, starting small businesses or just safety and security for women, apparently the assistance was quick in resolving matters. 

*She has plenty of political enemies- but her fearlessness is hard to deny. She kept her male-dominated party also under control, will be interesting to see how the AIADMK falls apart- or emerges with a new leader.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/jayalalithaas-new-biography-charts-her-journey-from-movie-queen-to-fearless-political-icon-3030018.html

This revolutionary woman- puratchi thalaivi's life journey is remarkable indeed!

Jayalalitha was MGRs woman-on-the-side (kept)

That's it.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:The only thing for which we can give her credit is to continue to assert states rights in the face of an intrusive central government. That will probably die with her.  I don't give the male codger much credit for anything.  TN's progress is due to the spirit of its people, and despite its political leaders, not because of them. So I beg to differ with Maria. They are both corrupt to the core. But I have very little hope. Their passing will only bring equally corrupt leaders to the fore who will probably be weak in resisting hegemonic central government initiatives.

It will take a couple of more generations to see real leadership, but I fear by then the take over by the central government on cultural matters like language will be complete, and maybe Rashmun's dream will finally be realized -- subjugation of all Indian languages by relentless and aggressive pushing of Hindi. TN was pretty much the last frontier.  That is the only thing I worry about in the short term.

Maria S wrote:From what I know, she is on life support, as the rumors swirl around. 
If one has lived the life they wanted to for the most part, loved by many..they are blessed. And Jayalalitha is loved. 

The quote "Democracy is divided dictatorship" has some elements truth to it.

And like it or not *(and like them personally or not- and I have mixed views about both of them) Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi are historic leaders of Tamil Nadu, who are fearless and provided powerful leadership and forces to reckon with ..especially, when it comes to the Central Government. 

While corruption and self-interests are undeniable..Tamil Nadu has made spectacular progress in the last 40 years..under their leadership of both their major political parties and mostly similar policies..for women-it has been a golden age..with unprecedented opportunities, resources and financial support..every segment of society has benefited.  

*I do wonder how this will change..and if the Central Government will interfere more or minimize the political power of the State.

Now to Jayalalitha..I used to think calling her "Amma" was a big joke for many years..during my recent visits..the laughter mellowed..I have met many, many people..from the poor to the more affluent and highly educated who have genuine affection for her..personal stories of immediate assistance in the most efficient manner, when she was able to help. Whether it was economic, starting small businesses or just safety and security for women, apparently the assistance was quick in resolving matters. 

*She has plenty of political enemies- but her fearlessness is hard to deny. She kept her male-dominated party also under control, will be interesting to see how the AIADMK falls apart- or emerges with a new leader.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/jayalalithaas-new-biography-charts-her-journey-from-movie-queen-to-fearless-political-icon-3030018.html

This revolutionary woman- puratchi thalaivi's life journey is remarkable indeed!

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:The only thing for which we can give her credit is to continue to assert states rights in the face of an intrusive central government. That will probably die with her.  I don't give the male codger much credit for anything.  TN's progress is due to the spirit of its people, and despite its political leaders, not because of them. So I beg to differ with Maria. They are both corrupt to the core. But I have very little hope. Their passing will only bring equally corrupt leaders to the fore who will probably be weak in resisting hegemonic central government initiatives.

It will take a couple of more generations to see real leadership, but I fear by then the take over by the central government on cultural matters like language will be complete, and maybe Rashmun's dream will finally be realized -- subjugation of all Indian languages by relentless and aggressive pushing of Hindi. TN was pretty much the last frontier.  That is the only thing I worry about in the short term.

Max why are you being so silly? I am myself opposed to Hindi fanatics. I don't want anyone to speak sanskritised hindi which is what the hindi fanatics want. I am all for hindustani which is the language of the people in urban centers all across India, either as a first language or second language or third language. As proof of what i say consider the fact that Hindi movies are seen all across urban centers in India. The language used in Hindi movies is Hindustani (and not sanskritised hindi).

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:The only thing for which we can give her credit is to continue to assert states rights in the face of an intrusive central government. That will probably die with her.  I don't give the male codger much credit for anything.  TN's progress is due to the spirit of its people, and despite its political leaders, not because of them. So I beg to differ with Maria. They are both corrupt to the core. But I have very little hope. Their passing will only bring equally corrupt leaders to the fore who will probably be weak in resisting hegemonic central government initiatives.

It will take a couple of more generations to see real leadership, but I fear by then the take over by the central government on cultural matters like language will be complete, and maybe Rashmun's dream will finally be realized -- subjugation of all Indian languages by relentless and aggressive pushing of Hindi. TN was pretty much the last frontier.  That is the only thing I worry about in the short term.

Max why are you being so silly? I am myself opposed to Hindi fanatics. I don't want anyone to speak sanskritised hindi which is what the hindi fanatics want. I am all for hindustani which is the language of the people in urban centers all across India, either as a first language or second language or third language. As proof of what i say consider the fact that Hindi movies are seen all across urban centers in India. The language used in Hindi movies is Hindustani (and not sanskritised hindi).

I don't pay much attention to subtleties like Hindi/Hindustani/Urdu etc. I don't have much interest in exploring those kind of subtleties. You can call it whatever you want -- a representative language pushed by the central government, spoken by large swathes of people in the UP/UththarkhAnd/MP/Delhi/Rajasthan/Bihar corridor, that the majority in the southern states do not understand and have historically not had a connection with.

I have always viewed your tendency and preferences for strong, even authoritarian central government exercise of power with suspicion. It is inimical to democracy.

Maria S wrote:I expect total disagreement in this forum:)

Obviously, Tamil Nadu has its divisions..opinions and affiliations vary. 

As I said..I have mixed views about both Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi too. That aside, I looked at the amazing progress made in every level for the past 40 years..some credit goes to the leadership, major changes on every level, do not happen in a vaccum, without proper plans, support structures and resources in place, provided with Governmental administrative actions.

We'll see how it all unfolds, must have hope!

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:The only thing for which we can give her credit is to continue to assert states rights in the face of an intrusive central government. That will probably die with her.  I don't give the male codger much credit for anything.  TN's progress is due to the spirit of its people, and despite its political leaders, not because of them. So I beg to differ with Maria. They are both corrupt to the core. But I have very little hope. Their passing will only bring equally corrupt leaders to the fore who will probably be weak in resisting hegemonic central government initiatives.

It will take a couple of more generations to see real leadership, but I fear by then the take over by the central government on cultural matters like language will be complete, and maybe Rashmun's dream will finally be realized -- subjugation of all Indian languages by relentless and aggressive pushing of Hindi. TN was pretty much the last frontier.  That is the only thing I worry about in the short term.

Max why are you being so silly? I am myself opposed to Hindi fanatics. I don't want anyone to speak sanskritised hindi which is what the hindi fanatics want. I am all for hindustani which is the language of the people in urban centers all across India, either as a first language or second language or third language. As proof of what i say consider the fact that Hindi movies are seen all across urban centers in India. The language used in Hindi movies is Hindustani (and not sanskritised hindi).

I don't pay much attention to subtleties like Hindi/Hindustani/Urdu etc. I don't have much interest in exploring those kind of subtleties. You can call it whatever you want -- a representative language pushed by the central government, spoken by large swathes of people in the UP/UththarkhAnd/MP/Delhi/Rajasthan/Bihar corridor, that the majority in the southern states do not understand and have historically not had a connection with.

I have always viewed your tendency and preferences for strong, even authoritarian central government exercise of power with suspicion. It is inimical to democracy.

Had i been a proponent of a strong and authoritarian central government i would have been supportive of Narendra Modi. Now you may say that that's because Modi is not secular. But have you ever seen me praising Indira Gandhi? My ideal Indian politician is Pandit Nehru who I believe was the greatest politician modern India has produced.

In rural parts of North India people don't speak Hindustani as a first language; they speak bhojpuri or awadhi or braja or rajasthani or chattisgarhi, sadri or maithili, etc. as their first language. This much said, they do speak Hindustani as a second language. As a person who grew up in urban North India i am unable to speak any of the various local hindi dialects of rural North India nor can i even understand them other than stray words which are also used in Hindustani. So people who grew up in rural NI are forced to communicate with me in Hindustani even though i am unable to communicate with them in their first language. This situation is similar to what happens when Tamils communicate with me in Hindustani.

I have also been in communication with the local Tamil Sangam who have informed me that i am welcome to join their Tamil classes (even though i am told these classes are meant for children). I plan to do so in the future.

garam_kuta wrote:

Maria S wrote:I expect total disagreement in this forum:)

Obviously, Tamil Nadu has its divisions..opinions and affiliations vary. 

As I said..I have mixed views about both Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi too. That aside, I looked at the amazing progress made in every level for the past 40 years..some credit goes to the leadership, major changes on every level, do not happen in a vaccum, without proper plans, support structures and resources in place, provided with Governmental administrative actions.

We'll see how it all unfolds, must have hope!

uh oh! should i delete my post ? j/k  

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:The only thing for which we can give her credit is to continue to assert states rights in the face of an intrusive central government. That will probably die with her.  I don't give the male codger much credit for anything.  TN's progress is due to the spirit of its people, and despite its political leaders, not because of them. So I beg to differ with Maria. They are both corrupt to the core. But I have very little hope. Their passing will only bring equally corrupt leaders to the fore who will probably be weak in resisting hegemonic central government initiatives.

It will take a couple of more generations to see real leadership, but I fear by then the take over by the central government on cultural matters like language will be complete, and maybe Rashmun's dream will finally be realized -- subjugation of all Indian languages by relentless and aggressive pushing of Hindi. TN was pretty much the last frontier.  That is the only thing I worry about in the short term.

Maria S wrote:So, it is official.

RIP.

Scarlet O'Hara wrote:well, as long as people don't kill themselves or others over this, it will be a decent sign that TN has made progress.

The obscenely lavish wedding of Jayalalithaa's 'foster son' Sudhagaran holds the record for being the largest wedding banquet (incurring taxpayers a massive Rs 10 crore bill), attended by over 1,50,000 guests.

southindian wrote:Man.... I thought she'd live forever...

She lived Trumpesque life, drew a salary of just one rupee for her job as chief minister but stashed/left millions in bank.

The obscenely lavish wedding of Jayalalithaa's 'foster son' Sudhagaran holds the record for being the largest wedding banquet (incurring taxpayers a massive Rs 10 crore bill), attended by over 1,50,000 guests.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:Man.... I thought she'd live forever...

She lived Trumpesque life, drew a salary of just one rupee for her job as chief minister but stashed/left millions in bank.

The obscenely lavish wedding of Jayalalithaa's 'foster son' Sudhagaran holds the record for being the largest wedding banquet (incurring taxpayers a massive Rs 10 crore bill), attended by over 1,50,000 guests.

She was only 68. The codger is 92+.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Certain Indianisms are too funny. Example -- mild lathi charge. Light beating with a stick doesn't do justice.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Please answer honestly -- do you cringe at the expressions of grief within your own culture when someone passes away? Does loud, vocal crying, slapping of one's own head/forehead etc make you uncomfortable

Maria S wrote:So an era comes to an end..watched the live coverage of the mass funeral and related events.

For a woman who said she never experienced  "நிபந்தனைகளற்ற அன்பு” (Unconditional love), if she could only see...the great outpouring of unconditional love..from millions of people..in person and online.

When many were assuming and predicting the worst.. rioting/bad behaviors..*ஒரு சிறு கீறல் கூட விழாமல் தமிழகம் சட்ட ஒழுங்கினைக் காத்ததற்கு ஒரு ராயல் சல்யூட்! I am so proud of the people of Tamil Nadu…have never such a peaceful and respectful send-off for any leader..with dignity, from the ordinary to the most famous, friends and foes-enemies alike....for such massive crowds with great emotion displayed, there were hardly any problems. 

The military, police and other security forces did a fantastic job! Everything was so well organized and on time..with such sophistication- showing the world how it can be done (impressed!)

For a moment, I wished that the DMK and AIADMK could merge together again, and that would be such a powerful Alliance to represent the State interests (*which I know is impossible!)

Now the political power games begin..it's going to be interesting.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:This was when she was jailed in 2014 and Panneerselvam and company had to take charge. Look at these cry babies!



Reminds me of the comedy that is often enacted in North Korea. The more you cry, the more you show proof that you are worthy.

A few years back, I read a study by Lera Broditsky, Professor in Stanford on how language determines thought process, values, knowledge, and behavior. HOW DOES OUR LANGUAGE SHAPE THE WAY WE THINK?

Tamil as a language encourages valor, sacrifice, loyalty, idealism etc. at the cost of survival. If a native tamil speaker is not exposed to any other language, the language imparts such values with a higher intensity.

My husband, a Malayali values survival and that has to do with his language too. He is fluent in Malayalam, Marathi, Hindi, English, and can manage a conversation in Tamil and French. That does enable him in adapting to change better. Learning a new language or being exposed to other languages has a unique way of balancing us. Allowing our brain to consider different ways of thinking tempers intense beliefs.

Tamilians are fiercely loyal about their language. The unique vocabulary and the values it espouses shape one's thinking. Tamil was my second language in school and I found it intoxicating. The Heroes of Tamil literature valued Courage and Truth above everything else. They were always ready to lay down their life for a cause. Shrewdness was considered cowardice. The followers of the thalaivan (Head) followed him with intense loyalty. Death was the only choice if survival meant dishonor. Tamilians who know additional languages are less intense.

FluteHolder wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Certain Indianisms are too funny. Example -- mild lathi charge. Light beating with a stick doesn't do justice.

Cops have to be mild at least at the beginning otherwise, you would get cycle chains from thondars...

Maria S wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Please answer honestly -- do you cringe at the expressions of grief within your own culture when someone passes away? Does loud, vocal crying, slapping of one's own head/forehead etc make you uncomfortable

Not at all.

See it as different expressions of grief.

If they are real emotions..it is actually very cathartic and therapeutic to the let it all out for the person..it helps with the grieving process.

*If it is all fake done for show (think we can all figure that out easily!)..it is annoying.

Maria S wrote:
For a woman who said she never experienced  "நிபந்தனைகளற்ற அன்பு” (Unconditional love), if she could only see...the great outpouring of unconditional love..from millions of people..in person and online.