Hellsangel wrote:Yippie kai yay! Tamils have a navy!

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Sarangdev (Kashmiri immigrant to South India) : circa 12th century CE

rashmun, is there one thing that is truly a tamilian tradition? i am getting rather disillusioned with my culture. have they done anything at all? please help me feel good about my culture.

tamil kings were the only Indian kings to my knowledge who had a well armed navy using which they carried out naval conquests. Raja Raja Chola and Rajendra Chola in particular.

did the tamilians invent the idea of navy? did they invent ships? did they invent the sea? if not, they aren't the founding fathers of all this.

anything else?

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

rashmun, is there one thing that is truly a tamilian tradition? i am getting rather disillusioned with my culture. have they done anything at all? please help me feel good about my culture.

tamil kings were the only Indian kings to my knowledge who had a well armed navy using which they carried out naval conquests. Raja Raja Chola and Rajendra Chola in particular.

did the tamilians invent the idea of navy? did they invent ships? did they invent the sea? if not, they aren't the founding fathers of all this.

anything else?

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

tamil kings were the only Indian kings to my knowledge who had a well armed navy using which they carried out naval conquests. Raja Raja Chola and Rajendra Chola in particular.

did the tamilians invent the idea of navy? did they invent ships? did they invent the sea? if not, they aren't the founding fathers of all this.

anything else?

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

did the tamilians invent the idea of navy? did they invent ships? did they invent the sea? if not, they aren't the founding fathers of all this.

anything else?

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

A tamilian (Ramanuja) was the founding father of the influential Vaisnava philosophy known as Visistadvaita.

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

The example i gave is an example of 'art to serve social purpose'.

There are broadly two theories of art and literature. The first is called art for art’s sake, and the second is called art for social purpose. According to the first theory, art and literature are only meant to create beautiful or entertaining works to please and entertain people, and they are not meant to propagate social ideas. If art is used for propagating social ideas it ceases to be art and becomes propaganda. Proponents of this view are Keats, Tennyson, T.S. Eliot, Edgar Allan Poe, Agyeya, the “Reetikal” and “Chayavadi” poets, etc.

The second theory is that art and literature should serve the people and help them in their struggle for a better life, by highlighting the socio-economic problems in society and inspiring people in their struggle. Proponents of this view are Dickens, Bernard Shaw, Walt Whitman, Upton Sinclair, John Steinbeck, Victor Hugo, Maxim Gorky, Balzac, Stendhal, Schiller, Goethe, Cervantes, Pablo Neruda, Kabir, Premchand, Sarat Chandra, Kazi Nazrul Islam, Faiz, Josh, Manto, etc.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/only-sound-and-fury-in-jaipur/1067535/

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

panini press wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

The man who gave the world Mock Theta functions was a tamilian. Likewise the man who gave the world 'Chandrashekhar limit' and the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' were both tamils. The student and collaborator of the man who gave the world 'Raman Effect' was also a tamilian.

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

I get the feeling that Tamilians are too hard to please!

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

funny i thot munmun had posted this line, before i saw the poster's name. explain why u call the above 'joint' ownership?

bw wrote:

panini press wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

bw wrote:

oh, i feel better now. what about arts? anything there?

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

I get the feeling that Tamilians are too hard to please!

is that an accomplishment? please, am in distress here, caused by the paucity of creativity in my culture and rashmun is helping me feel better. this is not the time for frivolous statements.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

funny i thot munmun had posted this line, before i saw the poster's name. explain why u call the above 'joint' ownership?

i would bother devoting time to explain it to you if had even shown the slightest inclination to understand anything about southern indians other than sambar, lungi, and tambis. forget that, i'd have taken the time to explain it to you if you had shown the slightest artistic interest here in anything other than bollywood. as such i have concluded you are in this thread just to standby and watch the fun. i have no interest in encouraging you. so please go and watch some shammi kapoor videos.

panini press wrote:

bw wrote:

panini press wrote:

bw wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

In the 20th century the first Indian writer who started writing on the subject of women's emancipation was a tamilian (Subramanya Bharati).

nothing in arts? dance, music, painting?

I get the feeling that Tamilians are too hard to please!

is that an accomplishment? please, am in distress here, caused by the paucity of creativity in my culture and rashmun is helping me feel better. this is not the time for frivolous statements.

I am just speculating on the reasons why Tamilians seem no good at creative pursuits. It is possible that this paucity of creativity is because Tamilians are too hard to please. If your audience is too hard to please, will you invent an art form? Even if you invent it, will it survive and attain popularity? No.

Of course, this is only a tentative view that is subject to revision based on further research and facts. I am going to believe in, copy-paste, and dot this view a few dozen times in the meanwhile. Doing so will help me solidify the appeal of this view to myself.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

funny i thot munmun had posted this line, before i saw the poster's name. explain why u call the above 'joint' ownership?

panini press wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

funny i thot munmun had posted this line, before i saw the poster's name. explain why u call the above 'joint' ownership?

Ownership of a cultural tradition is a lot more complex than ethnicity of the earliest prominent person in that tradition. CM truly belongs to southern India as a whole, because most of the compositions and its greatest musicians down the ages have come from all over southern India. The compositions themselves are in Kannada, Sanskrit, Tamil, and Telugu.

panini press wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:oothukadu: 1700 - 1765 CE
thyagaraja: 1767- 1847 CE
MD: 1775-1835 CE
purandara dasa: 1484 - 1564 CE
shyama shastri: 1762- 1827 CE

how can it be 'joint' ownership when the kannadiga died 2 centuries before everyone else.

CM is kannadiga, just like dosa. *DECIDED*

bollyaunty i suggest you stick to what you know best.

funny i thot munmun had posted this line, before i saw the poster's name. explain why u call the above 'joint' ownership?

Ownership of a cultural tradition is a lot more complex than ethnicity of the earliest prominent person in that tradition. CM truly belongs to southern India as a whole, because most of the compositions and its greatest musicians down the ages have come from all over southern India. The compositions themselves are in Kannada, Sanskrit, Tamil, and Telugu.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:VB: i don't think i was being too harsh. think about it. you have been on sulekha and here for what, over six years? in all that time, i have posted plenty of carnatic music, and articles and discussion about CM. you have never had anything to say about any of that ever. and your first post about CM is this question! what should one conclude?

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Ownership of a cultural tradition is a lot more complex than ethnicity of the earliest prominent person in that tradition. CM truly belongs to southern India as a whole, because most of the compositions and its greatest musicians down the ages have come from all over southern India. The compositions themselves are in Kannada, Sanskrit, Tamil, and Telugu.

Speaketh the man who has zero knowledge of Kashmiri contribution to CM. Furthermore, sanskrit is not a south indian language; it is an indian language.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:well, the main q above was who started it. and not just who advanced it subsequently.

Hellsangel wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Ownership of a cultural tradition is a lot more complex than ethnicity of the earliest prominent person in that tradition. CM truly belongs to southern India as a whole, because most of the compositions and its greatest musicians down the ages have come from all over southern India. The compositions themselves are in Kannada, Sanskrit, Tamil, and Telugu.

Speaketh the man who has zero knowledge of Kashmiri contribution to CM. Furthermore, sanskrit is not a south indian language; it is an indian language.

Great glut Admin, do you have zero knowledge on said topic?

panini press wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:well, the main q above was who started it. and not just who advanced it subsequently.

Perhaps that is in a post that I cannot see. As far as my reading of the thread goes, Max was suggesting that "ownership" of CM -- not "who originally started it" -- rests jointly with Kannadigas, Tamilians and Telugus. I think he is right.

Hellsangel wrote:Rashman, why do you keep deleting your posts. First gluttons, then pests. What next? The plague?

Rashmun wrote:The Sangita-Ratnakara of Sharngadeva (the 13th century) is one of the most important musicological texts from India, which both Hindustani music and Carnatic music regard as a definitive text.
The text is also known as Saptadhyayi as it is divided into seven chapters. The first six chapters, Svaragatadhyaya, Ragavivekadhyaya, Prakirnakadhyaya, Prabandhadhyaya, Taladhyaya and Vadyadhyaya deal with the various aspects of music and musical instruments while the last chapter Nartanadhyaya deals with dance.
The significant commentaries on the text include the Sangitasudhakara of Simhabhupala (c.1330) and the Kalanidhi of Kallinatha (c.1430).
This work was written by Śārńgadēva in the end of thirteenth century. The author was attached to the court of Yādava King Singhaņa, whose capital was Devagiri ( the present Daulatabad, in the South Maharashtra).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangita_Ratnakara

I have earlier given evidence to show that this Sarangdeva (or Sharngadeva) was a Kashmiri immigrant to South India. The crucial question really is this: did he acquire his knowledge of music in Kashmir (before immigrating to South India)?

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:VB: i don't think i was being too harsh. think about it. you have been on sulekha and here for what, over six years? in all that time, i have posted plenty of carnatic music, and articles and discussion about CM. you have never had anything to say about any of that ever. and your first post about CM is this question! what should one conclude?

I will never have interest in CM. ....

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:VB: i don't think i was being too harsh. think about it. you have been on sulekha and here for what, over six years? in all that time, i have posted plenty of carnatic music, and articles and discussion about CM. you have never had anything to say about any of that ever. and your first post about CM is this question! what should one conclude?

I will never have interest in CM. ....

well in that case you don't have sufficient background in the subject matter to engage in any intelligent way and that includes the question of timelines. it's the same reason why i have decided not to engage with the poster who goes by the handle of rashmun who keeps making ridiculous claim after ridiculous claim including the latest one just above this post.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:VB: i don't think i was being too harsh. think about it. you have been on sulekha and here for what, over six years? in all that time, i have posted plenty of carnatic music, and articles and discussion about CM. you have never had anything to say about any of that ever. and your first post about CM is this question! what should one conclude?

I will never have interest in CM. ....

well in that case you don't have sufficient background in the subject matter to engage in any intelligent way and that includes the question of timelines. it's the same reason why i have decided not to engage with the poster who goes by the handle of rashmun who keeps making ridiculous claim after ridiculous claim including the latest one just above this post.

Propagandhi711 wrote:massive industrial strength hoovering suction being applied by douchemun to tamilian-at-large on this thread. next will be him disrobing and giving
a table/lap dance for a random tamilian in his apartment complex.

Rashmun wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:massive industrial strength hoovering suction being applied by douchemun to tamilian-at-large on this thread. next will be him disrobing and giving
a table/lap dance for a random tamilian in his apartment complex.

Propa you are a middle aged husband and father now and it does not behoove you to continue talking like a teenager. Go ahead and make your parents and your family proud of you.

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:VB: i don't think i was being too harsh. think about it. you have been on sulekha and here for what, over six years? in all that time, i have posted plenty of carnatic music, and articles and discussion about CM. you have never had anything to say about any of that ever. and your first post about CM is this question! what should one conclude?

I will never have interest in CM. ....

well in that case you don't have sufficient background in the subject matter to engage in any intelligent way and that includes the question of timelines. it's the same reason why i have decided not to engage with the poster who goes by the handle of rashmun who keeps making ridiculous claim after ridiculous claim including the latest one just above this post.

I don't need to be too intelligent when I see big gaps in timeline and question the joint pioneer part of it. If you want to feel superior just coz u get a daily dose of CM, BN, Jazz, Probability, etc, then it's ur issue, not mine. Just do not insult Shammi Kapoor next time.

Propagandhi711 wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:massive industrial strength hoovering suction being applied by douchemun to tamilian-at-large on this thread. next will be him disrobing and giving
a table/lap dance for a random tamilian in his apartment complex.

Propa you are a middle aged husband and father now and it does not behoove you to continue talking like a teenager. Go ahead and make your parents and your family proud of you.

ohhh, on this thread you're suddenly an adult? is it because you've been fed humble pie by the professor? are you feeling low? want a lollipop?

Kayalvizhi wrote:RaShmun

I asked you couple oif questions in another thread with your name. Did you see it?

b_A wrote:Ha ha ha !!!!!

I knew something like this is going to happen when I saw the 'ingratiating' posts earlier.

PS: Standard Preemption - I swear that this is tooth , nothing but tooth , absolute tooth , I mean truth.

bw wrote:rashmun,

i looked up this kashmiri pioneer of carnatic music.

wiki says the following:

Sarangadeva's was of Kashmiri ancestry; his grandfather had migrated to Devagiri (in Maharashtra). He worked as an accountant in the court of the Yadava King Singhana (1210–1247).

it seems like all his work was done when he was in maharashtra. shouldn't credit go to maharashtra and not kashmir?

thanks.

bw wrote:rashmun,

i looked up this kashmiri pioneer of carnatic music.

wiki says the following:

Sarangadeva's was of Kashmiri ancestry; his grandfather had migrated to Devagiri (in Maharashtra). He worked as an accountant in the court of the Yadava King Singhana (1210–1247).

it seems like all his work was done when he was in maharashtra. shouldn't credit go to maharashtra and not kashmir?

thanks.

bw wrote:

b_A wrote:Ha ha ha !!!!!

I knew something like this is going to happen when I saw the 'ingratiating' posts earlier.

PS: Standard Preemption - I swear that this is tooth , nothing but tooth , absolute tooth , I mean truth.

oh! are you the handle known as "absolute zero"?

bw wrote:

b_A wrote:Ha ha ha !!!!!

I knew something like this is going to happen when I saw the 'ingratiating' posts earlier.

PS: Standard Preemption - I swear that this is tooth , nothing but tooth , absolute tooth , I mean truth.

oh! are you the handle known as "absolute zero"?