Brahmins as black as Nelson Mandela

by Rishi Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:33 pm

Racial Theory of Caste

Nineteenth-century Westerners projected the colonial situation and the newest race theories on the caste system: the upper castes were white invaders lording it over the black natives. This outdated view is still repeated ad-nauseam by anti-Hindu authors: now that "idolatry" has lost its force as a term of abuse, "racism" is a welcome innovation to demonize Hinduism. In reality, India is the region where all skin color types met and mingled, and you will find many brahmins as black as Nelson Mandela.

Ancient "Aryan" heroes like Rama, Krishna, Draupadi, Ravana (a brahmin) and a number of Vedic seers were explicitly described as being dark-skinned.

(note: The Lotus-Eyed God. Keshava, One Who Has Long, Black Matted Locks. Krishna, Dark-Complexioned Lord).

But doesn't varna mean "skin color?" The effective meaning of varna is "splendor, color," and hence "distinctive quality" or "one segment in a spectrum." The four functional classes constitute the "colors" in the spectrum of society. Symbolic colors are allotted to the varna on the basis of the cosmological scheme of "three qualities" (triguna): white is sattva (truthful), the quality typifying the brahmin; red is rajas (energetic), for the kshatriya; black is tamas (inert, solid), for the shudra; yellow is allotted to the vaishya, who is defined by a mixture of qualities.

Koenraad Elst

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:03 pm

But doesn't varna mean "skin color?"

>>> No. The original and most common meaning of "varna" is classification.

As for the rest of nonsense in the above,

'Symbolic colors are allotted to the varna on the basis of the cosmological scheme of "three qualities" (triguna): white is sattva (truthful), the quality typifying the brahmin; red is rajas (energetic), for the kshatriya; black is tamas (inert, solid), for the shudra; yellow is allotted to the vaishya, who is defined by a mixture of qualities.'

that is some nutjob, without much understanding about the Samkhya, trying to justify / explain the caste system and castes in terms of three modes of nature or Prakrti (Sattva, Rajas and Tamas, according to the Samkhya).

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:32 pm

can we send koenraad elst on that mars trip where we pack him off so he never comes back?

by nevada Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:41 pm

Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).

by Seva Lamberdar Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:24 pm

nevada wrote:Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).

But a person's color or caste (ancestral occupation tag) has no relation with three modes of prakriti / nature in the Samkhya, where Sattva (mode of light or clarity), Rajas (mode of passion or turmoil) and Tamas (mode of darkness or ignorance) express the basic / intrinsic characteristics, temporary or permanent. Here the reference to the modes of nature in terms of light and darkness etc. is not in the sense of colors or skin colors (white, black and red etc.), but mostly in being able to see / understand the truth / things clearly while in the mode of Sattva (light); the things remaining clouded, confused and full of ignorance in Tamas (mode of darkness / ignorance); and vision / judgment distorted by passion (as if the heart, rather than the head, rules the person) during Rajas (mode of passion).

by truthbetold Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:11 pm

Sevaji,
you seem to be saying something interesting.
sattva , tamas , rajas - are they related to varnas ? are they relevant to castes?
to be clear i thought these ideas are related to individual.
thanks in advance.

by truthbetold Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:18 pm

nevada wrote:Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).

that may be the reason one of our elders used to warn us about marwari(banias).these aggrawals goels goenkas bajajs s piramals mittals etc are all lighskinned ni banias or vysyas . So not trustworthy. but 60% or more of Indian wealth is locked up in their lockers.

by Seva Lamberdar Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:54 am

truthbetold wrote:Sevaji,
you seem to be saying something interesting.
sattva , tamas , rajas - are they related to varnas ? are they relevant to castes?
to be clear i thought these ideas are related to individual.
thanks in advance.

TBT,

Let me give a brief intro. about the Samkhya.

Reality, according to the Samkhya, comprising three co-eternals (Nature or Prakriti, Soul or Spirit, Brahman or God) is enumerated in terms of twenty-six (26) tattvas or principles.

The first twenty-four (24) tattvas in Samkhya belong to Nature (Prakriti) and they include the original / primitive matter, intellect, ego, senses, mind etc. (totaling 24 in number). Samkhya assumes the Nature / Prakriti as a dynamic force, with three inherent characteristics / modes (Sattva, Rajas and Tamas).

The twenty-fifth (25th) tattva in the Samkhya relates to soul and the twenty-sixth (26th) to Brahman.

Incidentally, if you want to find out more about the three modes of Nature in the Samkhya (Sattva, Rajas and Tamas), in terms of different activities etc., you may look into Ch. 14, 17 and 18 of the (Bhagavad) Gita.

Needless to say, there is no reference to any color, skin color or caste of a person in the above.

by Rishi Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:42 am

truthbetold wrote:
nevada wrote:Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).
that may be the reason one of our elders used to warn us about marwari(banias).these aggrawals goels goenkas bajajs s piramals mittals etc are all lighskinned ni banias or vysyas . So not trustworthy. but 60% or more of Indian wealth is locked up in their lockers.

>>>TBT,

There is hardly anyone with sattva quality these days. The last desi guy to live on earth with brahmin quality was Swami Vivekananda.

by Seva Lamberdar Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:26 pm

Rishi wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
nevada wrote:Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).
that may be the reason one of our elders used to warn us about marwari(banias).these aggrawals goels goenkas bajajs s piramals mittals etc are all lighskinned ni banias or vysyas . So not trustworthy. but 60% or more of Indian wealth is locked up in their lockers.

>>>TBT,

The last desi guy to live on earth with brahmin quality was Swami Vivekananda.

what makes you say that?

by Rishi Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:36 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rishi wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
nevada wrote:Yes, there are some dark skinned Brahmins but they are viewed with suspicion - at-least in AP. There is a saying that one should not trust a dark skinned Brahmin or a light skinned Vaishya.(Vaishya aka merchant class are generally dark skinned).
that may be the reason one of our elders used to warn us about marwari(banias).these aggrawals goels goenkas bajajs s piramals mittals etc are all lighskinned ni banias or vysyas . So not trustworthy. but 60% or more of Indian wealth is locked up in their lockers.

>>>TBT,

The last desi guy to live on earth with brahmin quality was Swami Vivekananda.

what makes you say that?

>>>He was the epitome of sattvic qualities.

We have not seen anyone like him so far after he died.

by truthbetold Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:14 pm

Sevaji
the thread is about konraad and Hindu castes.
you brought in these three gunas . my question is what is the relation of these gunas to castes or varnas ?

by truthbetold Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:18 pm

Rishi
vivekanda is not a satvik person in my opinion. he was a very strong originated person who pushed his agenda aggressively. it is another matter that you and i may that agenda palatable. Calling him satvik is not accurate.

by Seva Lamberdar Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:33 am

truthbetold wrote:Sevaji
the thread is about konraad and Hindu castes.
you brought in these three gunas . my question is what is the relation of these gunas to castes or varnas ?

TBT,
The original thread (reposted below in italics)
(But doesn't varna mean "skin color?" The effective meaning of varna is "splendor, color," and hence "distinctive quality" or "one segment in a spectrum." The four functional classes constitute the "colors" in the spectrum of society. Symbolic colors are allotted to the varna on the basis of the cosmological scheme of "three qualities" (triguna): white is sattva (truthful), the quality typifying the brahmin; red is rajas (energetic), for the kshatriya; black is tamas (inert, solid), for the shudra; yellow is allotted to the vaishya, who is defined by a mixture of qualities.)
uses the Samkhya terms (related to the modes of Nature -- sattva, rajas and tamas) unnecessarily (without any real basis) in this discussion on castes.

Moreover, by giving the color spin to these terms (even using the "varna" wrongly in the sense of color -- "varna" originally meant the classification) there is an effort in the above to justify castes (brahmin etc.) as a product or related to sattva, rajas and tamas.

Hence, the above intro. to Samkhya, including the reference to the Gita. As for your question in the above ("what is the relation of these gunas (sattva, rajas and tamas) to castes or varnas ?"), the simple answer is "None".

by truthbetold Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:18 am

Sevaji,
Thanks for the clarification.

by Seva Lamberdar Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:12 am

truthbetold wrote:Sevaji,
Thanks for the clarification.

u r welcome TBT.

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