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US Attorney's Statement
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nevada
smArtha
Kayalvizhi
Marathadi-Saamiyaar
peace_lover
truthbetold
Petrichor
goodcitizn
Propagandhi711
confuzzled dude
indophile
MaxEntropy_Man
Rishi
Hellsangel
18 posters
Page 1 of 3
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US Attorney's Statement
There has been much misinformation and factual inaccuracy in the reporting on the charges against Devyani Khobragade. It is important to correct these inaccuracies because they are misleading people and creating an inflammatory atmosphere on an unfounded basis. Although I am quite limited in my role as a prosecutor in what I can say, which in many ways constrains my ability here to explain the case to the extent I would like, I can nevertheless make sure the public record is clearer than it has been thus far.
First, Ms. Khobragade was charged based on conduct, as is alleged in the Complaint, that shows she clearly tried to evade U.S. law designed to protect from exploitation the domestic employees of diplomats and consular officers. Not only did she try to evade the law, but as further alleged, she caused the victim and her spouse to attest to false documents and be a part of her scheme to lie to U.S. government officials. So it is alleged not merely that she sought to evade the law, but that she affirmatively created false documents and went ahead with lying to the U.S. government about what she was doing. One wonders whether any government would not take action regarding false documents being submitted to it in order to bring immigrants into the country. One wonders even more pointedly whether any government would not take action regarding that alleged conduct where the purpose of the scheme was to unfairly treat a domestic worker in ways that violate the law. And one wonders why there is so much outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian national accused of perpetrating these acts, but precious little outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian victim and her spouse?
Second, as the alleged conduct of Ms. Khobragade makes clear, there can be no plausible claim that this case was somehow unexpected or an injustice. Indeed, the law is clearly set forth on the State Department website. Further, there have been other public cases in the United States involving other countries, and some involving India, where the mistreatment of domestic workers by diplomats or consular officers was charged criminally, and there have been civil suits as well. In fact, the Indian government itself has been aware of this legal issue, and that its diplomats and consular officers were at risk of violating the law. The question then may be asked: Is it for U.S. prosecutors to look the other way, ignore the law and the civil rights of victims (again, here an Indian national), or is it the responsibility of the diplomats and consular officers and their government to make sure the law is observed?
Third, Ms. Khobragade, the Deputy General Consul for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs, is alleged to have treated this victim illegally in numerous ways by paying her far below minimum wage, despite her child care responsibilities and many household duties, such that it was not a legal wage. The victim is also alleged to have worked far more than the 40 hours per week she was contracted to work, and which exceeded the maximum hour limit set forth in the visa application. Ms. Khobragade, as the Complaint charges, created a second contract that was not to be revealed to the U.S. government, that changed the amount to be paid to far below minimum wage, deleted the required language protecting the victim from other forms of exploitation and abuse, and also deleted language that stated that Ms. Khobragade agreed to "abide by all Federal, state, and local laws in the U.S." As the Complaint states, these are only "in part" the facts, and there are other facts regarding the treatment of the victim - that were not consistent with the law or the representations made by Ms. Khobragade -- that caused this Office and the State Department, to take legal action.
Fourth, as to Ms. Khobragade's arrest by State Department agents, this is a prosecutor's office in charge of prosecution, not the arrest or custody, of the defendant, and therefore those questions may be better referred to other agencies. I will address these issues based on the facts as I understand them. Ms. Khobragade was accorded courtesies well beyond what other defendants, most of whom are American citizens, are accorded. She was not, as has been incorrectly reported, arrested in front of her children. The agents arrested her in the most discreet way possible, and unlike most defendants, she was not then handcuffed or restrained. In fact, the arresting officers did not even seize her phone as they normally would have. Instead, they offered her the opportunity to make numerous calls to arrange personal matters and contact whomever she needed, including allowing her to arrange for child care. This lasted approximately two hours. Because it was cold outside, the agents let her make those calls from their car and even brought her coffee and offered to get her food. It is true that she was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal -- in a private setting -- when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself. This is in the interests of everyone's safety.
Fifth, as has been reported, the victim's family has been brought to the United States. As also has been reported, legal process was started in India against the victim, attempting to silence her, and attempts were made to compel her to return to India. Further, the Victim's family reportedly was confronted in numerous ways regarding this case. Speculation about why the family was brought here has been rampant and incorrect. Some focus should perhaps be put on why it was necessary to evacuate the family and what actions were taken in India vis-a-vis them. This Office and the Justice Department are compelled to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families are safe and secure while cases are pending.
Finally, this Office's sole motivation in this case, as in all cases, is to uphold the rule of law, protect victims, and hold accountable anyone who breaks the law - no matter what their societal status and no matter how powerful, rich or connected they are.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
how would americans feel if their diplomats here were cavity searched for weapons of mass destruction? put them on trial here for war crimes and crimes against humanity! bloody hypocrites.
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
So it is alleged not merely that she sought to evade the law, but that she affirmatively created false documents and went ahead with lying to the U.S. government about what she was doing. One wonders whether any government would not take action r
>>>> It seems Sonia Gandhi also lied on her aplication for Indian citizenship. She should also be prosecuted.
>>>> It seems Sonia Gandhi also lied on her aplication for Indian citizenship. She should also be prosecuted.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: US Attorney's Statement
It is true that she was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal -- in a private setting -- when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself.
>>>That is not true. It seems the strip and cavity searching is only done for crimes like drug possession etc.
>>>That is not true. It seems the strip and cavity searching is only done for crimes like drug possession etc.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: US Attorney's Statement
What did she lie about?Rishi wrote: So it is alleged not merely that she sought to evade the law, but that she affirmatively created false documents and went ahead with lying to the U.S. government about what she was doing. One wonders whether any government would not take action r
>>>> It seems Sonia Gandhi also lied on her aplication for Indian citizenship. She should also be prosecuted.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Brigadier HK (Retd) wrote:how would americans feel if their diplomats here were cavity searched for weapons of mass destruction? put them on trial here for war crimes and crimes against humanity! bloody hypocrites.
(a) in her original post, she did NOT have diplomatic immunity.
(b) following from (a), she was arrested and treated like anyone else who is arrested by the US marshall's office.
they strip search arrestees because they want to make sure they are not carrying concealed drugs or weapons. i think bharara's letter is quite persuasive. speculations about chinese diplomats and what they pay their maids is irrelevant (not you but uppili in an earlier post). maids employed by chinese diplomats have not complained. if they do, they will be investigated.
i am interested in learning (bharara hints at this in his letter) what deviltry the indian government has been up to in harassing and threatening the maid and her family.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
i am going to write a letter to the white house today after duly informing them of my indian origin where i plan to ask the obama administration to NOT apologize to india for bharara's actions.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Hellsangel wrote:What did she lie about?Rishi wrote: So it is alleged not merely that she sought to evade the law, but that she affirmatively created false documents and went ahead with lying to the U.S. government about what she was doing. One wonders whether any government would not take action r
>>>> It seems Sonia Gandhi also lied on her aplication for Indian citizenship. She should also be prosecuted.
43. Ms.Sonia Gandhi’s Indian citizenship acquired in record speed in April 1983 is vitiated by her incomplete answers to mandatory questions in the citizenship forms. She did not submit documents from the Italian government of relinquishing her Italian citizenship required for Indian citizenship, stating in the Form that it was ‘not applicable” [Annexure 12]. Italian Embassy in New Delhi simply affirmed what she told them and hence that cannot be taken as a valid document of relinquishment for the purposes of citizenship. She also retrieved her Italian passport in 1992 after citizenship laws in Italy were amended which under Section 10 of the Citizenship Act (1955) means cancellation of her Indian citizenship. - See more at: http://www.deeshaa.org/dr-subramanian-swamy-sanction-to-prosecute-ms-sonia-gandhi/#sthash.nfR1Hwrt.dpuf
http://www.deeshaa.org/dr-subramanian-swamy-sanction-to-prosecute-ms-sonia-gandhi/
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
>>>>Max,
Don't jump up and down.
American politicians and bureaucrats are also hypocritical and corrupt in many different ways.
They use media for all kinds of propaganda to point fingers at others and minimize the misdeeds they commit.
They made a big stink about the Soviet Union killing innocent people in Afghanistan. But they have killed more people in that country than the Soviet Union in 1980s.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rishi wrote:It is true that she was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal -- in a private setting -- when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself.
>>>That is not true. It seems the strip and cavity searching is only done for crimes like drug possession etc.
The Washington Post says about the same - you don't go that far with a diplomat of a friendly country.
Later, she was strip-searched and — she claims — cavity-searched by U.S. marshals; the Marshals Service is charged with housing federal prisoners. Experts said that was unheard-of treatment for a diplomat arrested by a friendly country. (A spokeswoman for the agency says that Khobragade was merely strip-searched.)
Someone is lying. Who?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/more-fallout-from-diplomats-strip-search-arrest/2013/12/18/51c0c11c-67eb-11e3-a0b9-249bbb34602c_story.html?tid=hpModule_949fa2be-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z15
indophile- Posts : 4338
Join date : 2011-04-29
Location : Glenn Dale, MD
Re: US Attorney's Statement
given her corrupt past (re the mumbai housing scandal) what do you think?indophile wrote:
Someone is lying. Who?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rishi wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
>>>>Max,
Don't jump up and down.
American politicians and bureaucrats are also hypocritical and corrupt in many different ways.
They use media for all kinds of propaganda to point fingers at others and minimize the misdeeds they commit.
They made a big stink about the Soviet Union killing innocent people in Afghanistan. But they have killed more people in that country than the Soviet Union in 1980s.
we can talk about american politicians and their hypocrisy in another thread. i am no shrinking violet when it comes to american politicians and their hypocrisy. we have plenty of discussions about them on these very pages. but this incident is about an indian govt official. and do you not write post after post after post about the corrupt ways of this indian govt? so why this sudden change of heart?
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
The Marshals Service could simply deny or own up the strip search on her. Case closed. Otherwise, the charge will be hanging out there and hurt feelings continue to simmer despite John Kerry's "expression of regret."
indophile- Posts : 4338
Join date : 2011-04-29
Location : Glenn Dale, MD
Re: US Attorney's Statement
I am sure embassy and consulate officials of other countries also commit a number of illegal acts. The difference in this case probably was that the victim dared to complain. And the prosecutor had to follow the letter of the law.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Rishi wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
>>>>Max,
Don't jump up and down.
American politicians and bureaucrats are also hypocritical and corrupt in many different ways.
They use media for all kinds of propaganda to point fingers at others and minimize the misdeeds they commit.
They made a big stink about the Soviet Union killing innocent people in Afghanistan. But they have killed more people in that country than the Soviet Union in 1980s.
we can talk about american politicians and their hypocrisy in another thread. i am no shrinking violet when it comes to american politicians and their hypocrisy. we have plenty of discussions about them on these very pages. but this incident is about an indian govt official. and do you not write post after post after post about the corrupt ways of this indian govt? so why this sudden change of heart?
>>> Just because I criticize Indian government officals and their corrupt ways does not mean that America is a perfect place.
Remember it was just fifty five years ago, public schools were closed in Norfolk, Charlottesville and Warren County of Virginia so that no blacks would be able to enroll in a public school where white kids were students. Children from poor black families which could not afford to move out of these counties were totally derprived of decent education and their futures destroyed. It is a clear example of the corruption and lack of integrity of whites who were officials of state and county governments.
Rishi- Posts : 5129
Join date : 2011-09-02
Re: US Attorney's Statement
what crap! she is an indian diplomat operating, figuratively, from an indian safe haven in the US. you don't humiliate such people in full view for the sake of your fuckall US laws. there are more polite ways of dealing with the issue. this goes against the tenet of granting immunity to diplomats worldwide. bharara equating her with rich and powerful is bull crap. the rich and powerful do not enjoy immunity from prosecution but diplomats do! it is a horrible gesture towards a "friendly" nation. how would you react if american diplomats were arrested for homosexuality?MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
The so called victim also lied to the consulate when she said she was getting paid $9.75/hour or whatever that minimum wage was, she knew that she will be paid about Rs. 30k/month, nobody was holding a gun to her head to lie to the visa officer. There is legal aspect and there is moral aspect, the maid is as morally bankrupt as the woman hired her and legally as culpable yet DoS gave her preferential treatment. Not sure whether the maid would've been given the same treatment had Khobrogade been an ordinary person like you and me.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: US Attorney's Statement
sometimes I wonder how big titties gets to keep his job..that role must have zero critical thinking requirements
Propagandhi711- Posts : 6941
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: US Attorney's Statement
indophile wrote:The Marshals Service could simply deny or own up the strip search on her. Case closed. Otherwise, the charge will be hanging out there and hurt feelings continue to simmer despite John Kerry's "expression of regret."
They already confirmed it.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Also, is it a standard practice to give the victim & their family immigrant visas? Did they apply these rules to all those H1-B victims.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: US Attorney's Statement
confuzzled dude wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:indians and SUCHers of indian origin who whine here day in and day out about corruption of indian politicians should be ashamed of themselves. you whine, yet you do not stand by your own principles and let national pride take precedence over your distaste for corruption. yes it is hurtful that it is the government of another country that is bringing this suit, but if you truly care about weeding out corruption from your govt, why don't you stand with bharara?
The so called victim also lied to the consulate when she said she was getting paid $9.75/hour or whatever that minimum wage was, she knew that she will be paid about Rs. 30k/month, nobody was holding a gun to her head to lie to the visa officer. There is legal aspect and there is moral aspect, the maid is as morally bankrupt as the woman hired her and legally as culpable yet DoS gave her preferential treatment. Not sure whether the maid would've been given the same treatment had Khobrogade been an ordinary person like you and me.
saar, it's pretty common for DAs to cut deals with some perpetrating a so-called "lesser offense" in order to convict someone perpetrating a larger crime (in their eyes, not yours). it's based on the theory that you cant always have priests and nuns as state witnesses.
more interesting is your (and other desis) continued defense of corruption & excuses you give for various corrupt individuals and parties. says volumes infact.
Propagandhi711- Posts : 6941
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Propagandhi711 wrote:
saar, it's pretty common for DAs to cut deals with some perpetrating a so-called "lesser offense" in order to convict someone perpetrating a larger crime (in their eyes, not yours). it's based on the theory that you cant always have priests and nuns as state witnesses.
more interesting is your (and other desis) continued defense of corruption & excuses you give for various corrupt individuals and parties. says volumes infact.
Who is defending who? I was only questioning the motives & double standards of US Attorney. Don't try so hard clinging to that self-appointed pedestal of yours, you may risk falling of and injuring, make an argument if you can without resorting to personal attacks.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: US Attorney's Statement
1. For a woman heading a very important post for India in immigration and entry permit matters to deliberately falsify visa application to the U.S. smacks of total disregard to the letter of the law and casts a poor light on her sense of integrity and honesty in upholding her own office and bearing.
2. Even the lokpal bill has provisions to protect and reward the whistle blowers who bring to light lawbreakers. So why is the maid, the whistle blower, made into a villain when she is really the victim, and Devyani made into a victim when she is the lawbreaker?
3. The Indian media is banking on anti-American sentiments by distorting facts to ignite the public playing right into the hands of corrupt politicians to whom breaking the law is a non-issue since they have been able to stay out of reach of the long arm of the law for eons. Rather than asking Devyani to apologize to the Indian government for her blatant offense and bringing down the dignity of the Consulate the focus is diverted to making America apologize for upholding its law since she was a diplomat, albeit she didn't have diplomatic status when she was arrested.
4. If India is treating American diplomats like royalty and overlook any misdeeds on their part, it is India's fault and that should be remedied. But that has no relevance to this case. Nor is her being a dalit relevant. Nor is America's history with regard to slavery.
5. Is calling a spade a spade so politically incorrect for Indians?
2. Even the lokpal bill has provisions to protect and reward the whistle blowers who bring to light lawbreakers. So why is the maid, the whistle blower, made into a villain when she is really the victim, and Devyani made into a victim when she is the lawbreaker?
3. The Indian media is banking on anti-American sentiments by distorting facts to ignite the public playing right into the hands of corrupt politicians to whom breaking the law is a non-issue since they have been able to stay out of reach of the long arm of the law for eons. Rather than asking Devyani to apologize to the Indian government for her blatant offense and bringing down the dignity of the Consulate the focus is diverted to making America apologize for upholding its law since she was a diplomat, albeit she didn't have diplomatic status when she was arrested.
4. If India is treating American diplomats like royalty and overlook any misdeeds on their part, it is India's fault and that should be remedied. But that has no relevance to this case. Nor is her being a dalit relevant. Nor is America's history with regard to slavery.
5. Is calling a spade a spade so politically incorrect for Indians?
Last edited by goodcitizn on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
goodcitizn- Posts : 3263
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Ha ha ha!confuzzled dude wrote:Also, is it a standard practice to give the victim & their family immigrant visas? Did they apply these rules to all those H1-B victims.
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
confuzzled dude wrote:Propagandhi711 wrote:
saar, it's pretty common for DAs to cut deals with some perpetrating a so-called "lesser offense" in order to convict someone perpetrating a larger crime (in their eyes, not yours). it's based on the theory that you cant always have priests and nuns as state witnesses.
more interesting is your (and other desis) continued defense of corruption & excuses you give for various corrupt individuals and parties. says volumes infact.
Who is defending who? I was only questioning the motives & double standards of US Attorney. Don't try so hard clinging to that self-appointed pedestal of yours, you may risk falling of and injuring, make an argument if you can without resorting to personal attacks.
my argument was in the first paragraph. when you question other ppl's motives, your motives are up for inspection too.
Propagandhi711- Posts : 6941
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: US Attorney's Statement
goodcitizn wrote:
5. Is calling a spade a spade so politically incorrect for Indians?
I think Indians are questioning the handling of this case, they've cited about three other cases of similar offense where the treatment wasn't to the same standards.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: US Attorney's Statement
If Maharashtrian AND sc/st = Defend Devyani to the hilt;
If Maharashtrian AND upper caste AND 7+ years in US = Defend Bharara;
If other Indian AND sc/st = Defend Indian govt. stance;
If other Indian AND upper caste = sit on the fence; cautiously make noises against US if they waited for 3 hours + in hot sun for US visa;
If other Indian, upper caste and 5+ years in US = Defend US govt stance;
If American = diss the Indians backwardness;
If male, focus all energies and research on the strip and cavity search!
If Maharashtrian AND upper caste AND 7+ years in US = Defend Bharara;
If other Indian AND sc/st = Defend Indian govt. stance;
If other Indian AND upper caste = sit on the fence; cautiously make noises against US if they waited for 3 hours + in hot sun for US visa;
If other Indian, upper caste and 5+ years in US = Defend US govt stance;
If American = diss the Indians backwardness;
If male, focus all energies and research on the strip and cavity search!
Petrichor- Posts : 1725
Join date : 2012-04-10
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Bharara and max are full.of it. every one including toddlers of devyani know she broke law and is lying through her teeth.
the question has nothing to do with the crime or the impact on sangeetha's family.
international diplomacy is way above these normal daily actions.this is a minimal negative impact incident and a sensible prosecutor would find outside public vuewmethods to resolve these cases.
despite India being a dump, it is a major country in the world. some overzealius self advancing prosecutor cannot set us relations with India. there were no big human issues involved in this case.
the question has nothing to do with the crime or the impact on sangeetha's family.
international diplomacy is way above these normal daily actions.this is a minimal negative impact incident and a sensible prosecutor would find outside public vuewmethods to resolve these cases.
despite India being a dump, it is a major country in the world. some overzealius self advancing prosecutor cannot set us relations with India. there were no big human issues involved in this case.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Isn't that a norm in NY, Rudy Giulianis & Elliot Spitzers of the world set precedenttruthbetold wrote:Bharara and max are full.of it. every one including toddlers of devyani know she broke law and is lying through her teeth.
the question has nothing to do with the crime or the impact on sangeetha's family.
international diplomacy is way above these normal daily actions.this is a minimal negative impact incident and a sensible prosecutor would find outside public vuewmethods to resolve these cases.
despite India being a dump, it is a major country in the world. some overzealius self advancing prosecutor cannot set us relations with India. there were no big human issues involved in this case.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: US Attorney's Statement
My dear NRI brothers and sisters, pliss to read this article. It shows the double standards of U.S and how they deal with BIG countries.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_17690205.jsp#.UrMdHPQW2Gc
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_17690205.jsp#.UrMdHPQW2Gc
peace_lover- Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-11-27
Re: US Attorney's Statement
peace_lover wrote:My dear NRI brothers and sisters, pliss to read this article. It shows the double standards of U.S and how they deal with BIG countries.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_17690205.jsp#.UrMdHPQW2Gc
I already stated that with the Spineless Indian Government and people India is not feared even by Boputhatswana.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:peace_lover wrote:My dear NRI brothers and sisters, pliss to read this article. It shows the double standards of U.S and how they deal with BIG countries.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_17690205.jsp#.UrMdHPQW2Gc
I already stated that with the Spineless Indian Government and people India is not feared even by Boputhatswana.
peace_lover- Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-11-27
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:peace_lover wrote:My dear NRI brothers and sisters, pliss to read this article. It shows the double standards of U.S and how they deal with BIG countries.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_17690205.jsp#.UrMdHPQW2Gc
I already stated that with the Spineless Indian Government and people India is not feared even by Boputhatswana.
peace_lover- Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-11-27
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Hellsangel wrote:There has been much misinformation and factual inaccuracy in the reporting on the charges against Devyani Khobragade. It is important to correct these inaccuracies because they are misleading people and creating an inflammatory atmosphere on an unfounded basis. Although I am quite limited in my role as a prosecutor in what I can say, which in many ways constrains my ability here to explain the case to the extent I would like, I can nevertheless make sure the public record is clearer than it has been thus far.
First, Ms. Khobragade was charged based on conduct, as is alleged in the Complaint, that shows she clearly tried to evade U.S. law designed to protect from exploitation the domestic employees of diplomats and consular officers. Not only did she try to evade the law, but as further alleged, she caused the victim and her spouse to attest to false documents and be a part of her scheme to lie to U.S. government officials. So it is alleged not merely that she sought to evade the law, but that she affirmatively created false documents and went ahead with lying to the U.S. government about what she was doing. One wonders whether any government would not take action regarding false documents being submitted to it in order to bring immigrants into the country. One wonders even more pointedly whether any government would not take action regarding that alleged conduct where the purpose of the scheme was to unfairly treat a domestic worker in ways that violate the law. And one wonders why there is so much outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian national accused of perpetrating these acts, but precious little outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian victim and her spouse?
Second, as the alleged conduct of Ms. Khobragade makes clear, there can be no plausible claim that this case was somehow unexpected or an injustice. Indeed, the law is clearly set forth on the State Department website. Further, there have been other public cases in the United States involving other countries, and some involving India, where the mistreatment of domestic workers by diplomats or consular officers was charged criminally, and there have been civil suits as well. In fact, the Indian government itself has been aware of this legal issue, and that its diplomats and consular officers were at risk of violating the law. The question then may be asked: Is it for U.S. prosecutors to look the other way, ignore the law and the civil rights of victims (again, here an Indian national), or is it the responsibility of the diplomats and consular officers and their government to make sure the law is observed?
Third, Ms. Khobragade, the Deputy General Consul for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs, is alleged to have treated this victim illegally in numerous ways by paying her far below minimum wage, despite her child care responsibilities and many household duties, such that it was not a legal wage. The victim is also alleged to have worked far more than the 40 hours per week she was contracted to work, and which exceeded the maximum hour limit set forth in the visa application. Ms. Khobragade, as the Complaint charges, created a second contract that was not to be revealed to the U.S. government, that changed the amount to be paid to far below minimum wage, deleted the required language protecting the victim from other forms of exploitation and abuse, and also deleted language that stated that Ms. Khobragade agreed to "abide by all Federal, state, and local laws in the U.S." As the Complaint states, these are only "in part" the facts, and there are other facts regarding the treatment of the victim - that were not consistent with the law or the representations made by Ms. Khobragade -- that caused this Office and the State Department, to take legal action.
Fourth, as to Ms. Khobragade's arrest by State Department agents, this is a prosecutor's office in charge of prosecution, not the arrest or custody, of the defendant, and therefore those questions may be better referred to other agencies. I will address these issues based on the facts as I understand them. Ms. Khobragade was accorded courtesies well beyond what other defendants, most of whom are American citizens, are accorded. She was not, as has been incorrectly reported, arrested in front of her children. The agents arrested her in the most discreet way possible, and unlike most defendants, she was not then handcuffed or restrained. In fact, the arresting officers did not even seize her phone as they normally would have. Instead, they offered her the opportunity to make numerous calls to arrange personal matters and contact whomever she needed, including allowing her to arrange for child care. This lasted approximately two hours. Because it was cold outside, the agents let her make those calls from their car and even brought her coffee and offered to get her food. It is true that she was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal -- in a private setting -- when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself. This is in the interests of everyone's safety.
Fifth, as has been reported, the victim's family has been brought to the United States. As also has been reported, legal process was started in India against the victim, attempting to silence her, and attempts were made to compel her to return to India. Further, the Victim's family reportedly was confronted in numerous ways regarding this case. Speculation about why the family was brought here has been rampant and incorrect. Some focus should perhaps be put on why it was necessary to evacuate the family and what actions were taken in India vis-a-vis them. This Office and the Justice Department are compelled to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families are safe and secure while cases are pending.
Finally, this Office's sole motivation in this case, as in all cases, is to uphold the rule of law, protect victims, and hold accountable anyone who breaks the law - no matter what their societal status and no matter how powerful, rich or connected they are.
Preet Bharara wrote:It is true that she was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal -- in a private setting -- when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself. This is in the interests of everyone's safety.
The United States marshal service (USMS) may have flouted its own policy by subjecting Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade to intrusive strip and cavity searches, an examination of its rules show, lending weight to India's accusations that its actions were disproportionate and probably even illegal.
USMS directives, reviewed by ET, stipulate that such searches can be done only if there is "reasonable suspicion" that the person arrested is carrying contraband or weapons, is a repeat offender or is considered a security, escape or suicide risk.
Khobragade, in an email to her colleagues that found its way to the media on Wednesday, said she had been subjected to stripping, cavity searches, DNA swabbing and handcuffing while in custody. This was despite the fact that she or her alleged offence does not fit in with the profile of people or crimes that could be subjected to such intrusive examination.
USMS spokesperson Nikki Credic-Barrett confirmed that Khobragade was subjected to a "strip search", but claimed that this was as per standard procedures.
USMS directives in place since 2010 clearly lay down four kinds of searches: pat-down search, in-custody search, strip search and digital cavity search — the last two used only in specific circumstances.
According to these directives, a strip search is a "complete search" of the prisoner's attire and a "visual inspection" of the prisoner's naked body, including body cavities, and stipulates certain procedures for it. USMS defines a cavity search as involving intrusion into a body cavity (mouth, ears, nostrils, rectum or vagina) by an officer using his hands or a medical device.
"Strip searches on prisoners in custody are authorized when there is reasonable suspicion that the prisoner may be carrying contraband and/or weapons, or considered to be a security, escape and/or suicide risk," the USMS directives clearly state.
Subjecting Khobragade to such searches, besides being disproportionate, was clearly in violation of the USMS' own rules, experts in India said.
Former cabinet secretary and India's ambassador to the US from 1996 to 2001, Naresh Chandra, said the US had clearly violated its own law and accused the US marshall service and state department of lying.
"The latter knows that what the US Marshals did was excessive and is just covering up a bad case by defending this matter in typical US bureaucratic style. They adopted a measure of a strip and cavity search that is not provided in their own law in this case," Chandra told ET.
"If her lawyer brings this to the notice of US courts, they will take a serious view. We should not let the US off the hook on this one," he added.
The USMS directives define "reasonable suspicion" as "articulable facts" that reasonably lead to suspicion that a particular person is concealing a weapon, contraband, or evidence of a crime "on or within the body". The directives also say that such reasonable suspicion may be based on one or more of six laid down criteria.
These include: "A serious nature of offence charges like crime of violence or drugs, prisoner's appearance or demeanor, circumstances surrounding the arrest or detention, prisoner's criminal history, type and security of the institution where the prisoner is detained or history of discovery of contraband/or weapons on the prisoner individually or in the institution in which prisoners are detained".
Former foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal, who has served as deputy chief of mission in the US, said that it was clear that Khobragade's profile did not in any way fall in the category for a strip search. "US booked her for a visa fraud case. She is not a felon or a drug addict or hiding weapons or one with criminal history. There was no reason to believe that a senior Indian diplomat may escape from custody or commit suicide either. The US has subjected her to the worst possible treatment under their law which I would term as an arbitrary exercise of power," Sibal said.
An e-mail sent by ET to the USMS requesting clarifications on the said deviations from their policy remained unanswered at the time of going to press.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Search-on-Devyani-may-even-be-illegal/articleshow/27611083.cms
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
and uppili seems like he can't make up his mind. in an earlier message he seemed to like it that bharara is nailing people of indian (sub-continental) origin. lately he has had a complete turnaround.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
there was a case going on against the maid's husband in an Indian court so how can this guy (maid's husband) be whisked away to the US thereby subverting the Indian legal and judicial system ?
---
In a statement in the US, the India-born Bharara not only defended the action against Khobragade but also said that maid Sangeeta Richard's family has been brought to the US. He said a legal process was started in India to "silence her and attempts were made to compel her to return to India".
Reacting to this, MEA said, "The statement in question acknowledges that legal processes were in place in India. Yet, incredibly, it invites speculation about why it was necessary to evacuate the family of Ms Richards and about the action purportedly being taken against them.
"The implication of this remarkable admission needs to be considered very carefully with regard to the implicit comment it makes about the Indian legal system, Indian law enforcement authorities, and the responsibility that legal officials of a foreign government seem to arrogate upon themselves with regard to the nationals of another country." .....
Criticizing the US prosecutor for making statement for "post facto rationalization" for an action that should never have taken place in the first instance, external affairs ministry Spokesperson said there were no courtesies extended to Khobragade, who is the only "victim" in this case.
He said despite acknowledging that legal process were in place in India, the statement talks why it was necessary to evacuate the family of absconding maid Sangeeta Richard, thereby, making "implicit comment" about the Indian legal system, its enforcement authorities, and the responsibility that legal officials of a foreign government seem to "arrogate upon" themselves with regard to nationals of another country.
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Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
this kind of 'corruption' is indulged in by thousands of diplomats in the US as Tharoor pointed out so why single out Devyani? Would anyone dare to take similar action against a Chinese diplomat?
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Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
this kind of 'corruption' is indulged in by thousands of diplomats in the US as Tharoor pointed out so why single out Devyani? Would anyone dare to take similar action against a Chinese diplomat?
has a maid employed by the chinese consulate or by a chinese diplomat complained? i understand that this entire incident could have been worked by the maid in question to take advantage of the system. however, it is still khobragade who signed the contract. if she is not able to afford a maid at that salary, then don't employ one. millions of us in the US do without one.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
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Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
this kind of 'corruption' is indulged in by thousands of diplomats in the US as Tharoor pointed out so why single out Devyani? Would anyone dare to take similar action against a Chinese diplomat?
has a maid employed by the chinese consulate or by a chinese diplomat complained? i understand that this entire incident could have been worked by the maid in question to take advantage of the system. however, it is still khobragade who signed the contract. if she is not able to afford a maid at that salary, then don't employ one. millions of us in the US do without one.
in the event that a chinese maid complains do you think anyone would DARE to arrest and then strip search and cavity search a female chinese diplomat? i think not. when thousands of diplomats are flouting the system you cannot just single out and arrest a single person for this. Further, how could they bring the maid's family to the US when a case was going on against her husband in an Indian court? What about respect for the Indian legal and judicial system? Is India to be treated like it is a banana republic?
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Re: US Attorney's Statement
you are missing the point. the maid brought in a complaint to bharara's office. he is duty bound to investigate it. there is no choice in the matter.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
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Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:we can have the conversations about american double standards etc. but why are you (the people who support the indian govt on this issue) opposed to bharara's actions, when you have yourself in the past whined about the indian govt's corruption? why are you not able to separate in your minds the corruption of the indian official from the hypocrisy of the american govt? clearly national pride is more important to you than your own professed principles.
this kind of 'corruption' is indulged in by thousands of diplomats in the US as Tharoor pointed out so why single out Devyani? Would anyone dare to take similar action against a Chinese diplomat?
Leave China.. Has U.S got the guts to act the same way against a 'lady' diplomat of Saudi or any other middle-east countries?
peace_lover- Posts : 54
Join date : 2013-11-27
Re: US Attorney's Statement
>> Is India to be treated like it is a banana republic?
India is a banana Hindicrazy.
India is a banana Hindicrazy.
Kayalvizhi- Posts : 3659
Join date : 2011-05-16
Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you are missing the point. the maid brought in a complaint to bharara's office. he is duty bound to investigate it. there is no choice in the matter.
would he have taken similar action if it would have been a chinese maid complaining against a female chinese diplomat?
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
why weren't the russian diplomats arrested by bharara on the same day? why did he get instructions from the state officials not to arrest them?MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
has a maid employed by the chinese consulate or by a chinese diplomat complained?
Guest- Guest
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you are missing the point. the maid brought in a complaint to bharara's office. he is duty bound to investigate it. there is no choice in the matter.
would he have taken similar action if it would have been a chinese maid complaining against a female chinese diplomat?
Furthermore, has he not subverted the indian legal and judicial system by extraditing the maid's husband to the US who was facing legal proceedings in an Indian court? Now every other nation will start showing the middle finger to Indian courts. People facing legal proceedings in indian courts can simply be extradited to another country.
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Re: US Attorney's Statement
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Brigadier HK (Retd) wrote:how would americans feel if their diplomats here were cavity searched for weapons of mass destruction? put them on trial here for war crimes and crimes against humanity! bloody hypocrites.
(a) in her original post, she did NOT have diplomatic immunity.
(b) following from (a), she was arrested and treated like anyone else who is arrested by the US marshall's office.
they strip search arrestees because they want to make sure they are not carrying concealed drugs or weapons. i think bharara's letter is quite persuasive. speculations about chinese diplomats and what they pay their maids is irrelevant (not you but uppili in an earlier post). maids employed by chinese diplomats have not complained. if they do, they will be investigated.
i am interested in learning (bharara hints at this in his letter) what deviltry the indian government has been up to in harassing and threatening the maid and her family.
If you are following the corresponding stories in Indian Media (which most Americans blissfully won't as by definition 'rest-of-world' is not a concern for them), this case does look like a carefully orchestrated effort to accomplish one or more of the following objectives
a) US Attorney Preet Bahraara's political ambitions and the need to prove he is more white/american than the locals
b) US Immigration aspirations of the maid and family (apparently her father or father-in-law is employed by a US Embassy for a few years now and he was part of this game plan)
c) Show Indian Consular/Dimplomatic community in bad light (by exploiting a 'known' issue - yes even State Department knew this discrepancies in Visa apps vs. reality for a while)
Apparently, there are more than 100 nations who cannot meet the minimum wage norms set by developed nations as this would mean drastically changing the pay-grades of all their embassy staff to justify $4500 kind needs towards maids/domestic help. The 'understood' pact is that they'll pay them good w.r.t their native laws and take care of their housing, food, health, clothing kind basic needs. Typically, these help are paid a salary in India (for their family) and some basic compensation in USD ($500-$750 kind) towards this. So there is a don't ask don't tell kind understanding between these officials & maids and also between the MEA and State Dept. In this case, because of one or more goals above the Attorney, State Dept (may be some officials there) and the Maid's family schemed this from the onset. This explains why within no more than 6-months of her arrival the Maid started exploring outside - she knew who to approach which jobs to seek etc. Almost like well-prepared and equipped and confident that she can make it by herself here. This looks super fishy and suspicious. As always the Indian Officials and MEA are caught napping on this one while the Attorney, Maid and State Department were firming up their story from all fronts. Hence the incoherent statements-from-nap kind stories and explanations from them while their counterparts are well-prepared on all fronts.
smArtha- Posts : 1229
Join date : 2013-07-29
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you are missing the point. the maid brought in a complaint to bharara's office. he is duty bound to investigate it. there is no choice in the matter.
would he have taken similar action if it would have been a chinese maid complaining against a female chinese diplomat?
that is a hypothetical question to which we can only know the answer if it actually comes to pass. based on the current american clashes with the chinese on the world stage, i'd guess yes.
MaxEntropy_Man- Posts : 14702
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: US Attorney's Statement
Rashmun wrote:Rashmun wrote:MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you are missing the point. the maid brought in a complaint to bharara's office. he is duty bound to investigate it. there is no choice in the matter.
would he have taken similar action if it would have been a chinese maid complaining against a female chinese diplomat?
Furthermore, has he not subverted the indian legal and judicial system by extraditing the maid's husband to the US who was facing legal proceedings in an Indian court? Now every other nation will start showing the middle finger to Indian courts. People facing legal proceedings in indian courts can simply be extradited to another country.
Isn't this the reason why U.S treats us like the way it did now. We've been doing this for a long time, bending backwards to appease the ghoras.
peace_lover- Posts : 54
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