Obama authorizes airstrikes in Iraq

by confuzzled dude Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:55 pm

Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

by Hellsangel Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:58 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?

by confuzzled dude Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:09 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?

ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?

by Hellsangel Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:18 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?

I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.

by confuzzled dude Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:29 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:57 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

I suspect he has secretly ordered a full scale bombing - but outwardly tone down report so as not to rattle the economy.

But, the ISIS deserves a CARPET BOMBING...Hopefully, US military will have some Israeli advisors... Razz

by Hellsangel Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:24 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

Big surprise that you scour the internet to find articles written by authors this described, Comrade:

Jim Kavanagh

Former college professor, native and denizen of New York City. Blogging at www.thepolemicist.net, aiming to be intellectually rigorous, politically challenging, and occasionally snarky, from a left-socialist perspective.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:26 am

Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

Big surprise that you scour the internet to find articles written by authors this described, Comrade:

Jim Kavanagh

Former college professor, native and denizen of New York City. Blogging at www.thepolemicist.net, aiming to be intellectually rigorous, politically challenging, and occasionally snarky, from a left-socialist perspective.

that comrade eagerly consumes op-ed "news" from this website is not surprising, considering his title. this site is straight-up russia's mouthpiece. read this article, it's blaming ukraine for launching the missile, not the separatists...lol. they are still bemoaning soviet demise over there, just like our comrade.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Systematically-Reconstruct-by-Eric-Zuesse-Obama-Administration_Peace_War_President-Barack-Obama-POTUS_Propaganda-140807-371.html

by confuzzled dude Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:09 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Big surprise that you scour the internet to find articles written by authors this described, Comrade:

Jim Kavanagh

Former college professor, native and denizen of New York City. Blogging at www.thepolemicist.net, aiming to be intellectually rigorous, politically challenging, and occasionally snarky, from a left-socialist perspective.

that comrade eagerly consumes op-ed "news" from this website is not surprising, considering his title. this site is straight-up russia's mouthpiece. read this article, it's blaming ukraine for launching the missile, not the separatists...lol. they are still bemoaning soviet demise over there, just like our comrade.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Systematically-Reconstruct-by-Eric-Zuesse-Obama-Administration_Peace_War_President-Barack-Obama-POTUS_Propaganda-140807-371.html

Do you guys have any logical rebuttal to that article other than spouting off-topic diatribe & inane, inconsequential and retread gibes.

by truthbetold Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:37 pm

Two questions:

1. Is obama decision to strike isis justified?

2. If yes, What is the reason for such justification?

I would like to understand the reasoning from both obama baiters on the right and anti war peaceniks.

My two cents. IT is justified. It is actually a little too late. US has ample interest in destroying isis in its infancy. Bombing hurts but does not wipe out. But isis will get the first taste of real war with us strikes.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:32 am

WASHINGTON — President Obama said Friday that he was open to supporting a sustained effort to drive Sunni militants out of Iraq if Iraqi leaders form a more inclusive government, even as he vowed that the United States had no intention of “being the Iraqi air force.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/09/world/middleeast/while-offering-support-obama-warns-that-us-wont-be-iraqi-air-force.html?_r=0

-> Given how piss poor Iraqi Army has been, leave their air force, which is nonexistent, alone he has no choice but be their air force, and am afraid this will gradually lead into US boots on the ground. Dividing Iraq into 3 pieces will make those states much weaker than what Iraq is and probably will create another Palestine like situation.

by truthbetold Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:56 am

Cd
one more of your worry posts. whether iraq remains one or splits into 3 parts is a iraqi peoples decision.

the quextion to you, what would be your advice to obama? you are saying, stay out.

obama is not leading the charge to shape the events but he.is reacting.to.minimize.negative consequences.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:03 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

this was a very well argued article. it's not surprising that the usual carpers on this site had no reasoned response to it other than the usual character assassination. thanks for posting.

by Kris Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:18 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.

>>>Why?

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:19 pm

truthbetold wrote:Cd
one more of your worry posts. whether iraq remains one or splits into 3 parts is a iraqi peoples decision.

the quextion to you, what would be your advice to obama? you are saying, stay out.

obama is not leading the charge to shape the events but he.is reacting.to.minimize.negative consequences.

Situation has changed in the last week or so to the worst.. so the US is left with no choice but act, on the bright side things haven't gotten as worst as the media outlets were projecting back in June filling airwaves with hyping ISIS's capabilities & empty noise that ISIS will take over Baghdad in a week or so, but they didn't even after 2 months. I also think that, in order to eliminate ISIS/L, Obama should change his strategy and support Assad. In the long run, US has to change its strategy to not overtly support Israel, be neutral, force them to come to an agreement (dry up funds to Israel, they will become less cocky) which will change the world's perception of the US for better. It would be folly to continue with the same old recipe, hate islam.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:28 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.
>>>Why?

From what I understand, ISIS was paying $1000/month to recruit fighters though intel seems to suggest that ISIS has become self-reliant by virtue of controlling oil refineries and robbing banks, however, initial funds must have come from the usual suspects. My point is this will curtail the influence of Saudi, fostering terrorist outfits, in future.

by Hellsangel Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:34 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:

Really? They use human shields?
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

this was a very well argued article. it's not surprising that the usual carpers on this site had no reasoned response to it other than the usual character assassination. thanks for posting.

So by your argument the WTC was a legitimate target for Al Qaeda if it had housed the FBI or the CIA?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:37 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
ISIS has been killing 1000s of civilians in Iraq & Syria, how many Palestinians were killed/bombed by Hamas?
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

this was a very well argued article. it's not surprising that the usual carpers on this site had no reasoned response to it other than the usual character assassination. thanks for posting.

So by your argument the WTC was a legitimate target for Al Qaeda if it had housed the FBI or the CIA?

that analogy is based on an acceptance of the equivalency between israel and the US, and the al qaeda and all the various factions fighting israel. i see no such equivalency. i reject the premise of the analogy.

by Hellsangel Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:39 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
I suppose, technically, Hamas does not kill the human shields it uses.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Israel-s-Human-Shield-Hy-by-Jim-Kavanagh-Gaza-Invasion_Human-Shield_Israel-Attacks-Gaza_Israeli-Attacks-On-Gaza-140803-679.html

this was a very well argued article. it's not surprising that the usual carpers on this site had no reasoned response to it other than the usual character assassination. thanks for posting.

So by your argument the WTC was a legitimate target for Al Qaeda if it had housed the FBI or the CIA?

that analogy is based on an acceptance of the equivalency between israel and the US, and the al qaeda and all the various factions fighting israel. i see no such equivalency. i reject the premise of the analogy.

That is your problem then, Il Professor-ai.

by Kris Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:44 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:Why announce it to the whole world, wouldn't it give ISIS a chance to hide or use civilians as human shields? Also, I'd like them to bomb a few oil wells in Saudi as well.
>>>Why?
From what I understand, ISIS was paying $1000/month to recruit fighters though intel seems to suggest that ISIS has become self-reliant by virtue of controlling oil refineries and robbing banks, initial funds must have come from the usual suspects. My point is this will curtail the influence of Saudi, fostering terrorist outfits, in future.

Oh, the Saudis' thuggery is a given, but from a tactical standpoint bombing their oil wells would be a disaster. Obama will play this in a tightly scripted manner. Not that that is going to help the middle east in the long term, but that is a lost cause anyway.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:44 pm

as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

by Kris Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:49 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:50 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

By right-wing's retarded logic, it turned into a territorial dispute because of Islamic terrorism.

by Hellsangel Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

Sure. Let's say that about the Hafeez Sayed and his outfit too.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:58 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:11 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

kris -- that's a difficult question to answer in the abstract, but if you push me to answer it with a yes or no, i'd say no. having said that, israel needs the west, in particular the US and britain to be behind it, and with the tactics they are employing, they certainly are not helping themselves. at least if these tactics work one could say they are deplorable, but they seem to be working. they don't seem to be working. and something seems different this time around with regards to the unqualified support they have been getting from the west. why do you think that is?

by Kris Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:16 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:23 pm

getting back to the topic of the thread, the US spent more than a decade of effort, and american blood and treasure "securing" iraq and "training" their local forces. what happened to all that training? why aren't the iraqis able to do this themselves?

by Hellsangel Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:24 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.

Excerpt from the Hamas charter:

"...[T]he Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah's promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:26 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.

Sure but that's not the sole or main criteria in Palestine case, why do you think Srilankan Tamilians supported LTTE? for that matter many Tamilians in India too sympathize.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:31 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.
Sure but that's not the sole or main criteria in Palestine case, why do you think Srilankan Tamilians supported LTTE? for that matter many Tamilians in India too ~~sympathize~~ sympathized.

please use the correct tense. that stopped being the case a long time ago.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:37 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:getting back to the topic of the thread, the US spent more than a decade of effort, and american blood and treasure "securing" iraq and "training" their local forces. what happened to all that training? why aren't the iraqis able to do this themselves?

"[W]hen United States and coalition forces invaded Iraq in 2003 they faced no Iraqi Air Force opposition. Not one Iraqi warplane attacked the invaders as they proceeded towards Baghdad.
In other words, the Iraqi Air Force had pretty well been decimated during the years prior to the invasion and was “only a shadow of what it had been in 1991,” unwilling and incapable of challenging the U.S. and coalition air forces: “When the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, the Iraqi Air Force did not show up.”

These and other facts can be found in a paper by AF Historical Research Agency’s Dr. Dan Haulman in a recent Air University publication.
Among other facts, we learn that:

In 1991, the Iraqi Air Force was one of the largest in southwestern Asia, with well over 700 fixed-wing combat aircraft, including Russian MIG-29s and French Mirage F-1s."

http://themoderatevoice.com/82053/why-the-iraqi-air-force-did-not-show-up%E2%80%99-in-2003/

-> In addition to that Maliki's sectarian politics/policies frowned upon by many Sunnis in the army which led them to abandon the military.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:42 pm

so is it correct to say that the entire US exercise in iraq in which more than 1 trillion dollars were pissed away, not to mention iraqi and american lives lost, has been for naught?

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.
Sure but that's not the sole or main criteria in Palestine case, why do you think Srilankan Tamilians supported LTTE? for that matter many Tamilians in India too ~~sympathize~~ sympathized.

please use the correct tense. that stopped being the case a long time ago.

my bad I didn't phrase it correctly, leave LTTE aside, there is nothing wrong with Indians sympathizing for Srilankan Tamilians cause, right?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:43 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
I think so, just look at the hatred spewed by Telangana leaders against so called Andhra settlers and their attempts to kick them out of Hyd.

>>>Think of it is the Mahabharatha. Both sides have some right and some wrong on their side, but the 'muslim-infidel' angle is a reality and one that cannot be wished away.
Sure but that's not the sole or main criteria in Palestine case, why do you think Srilankan Tamilians supported LTTE? for that matter many Tamilians in India too ~~sympathize~~ sympathized.

please use the correct tense. that stopped being the case a long time ago.
my bad I didn't phrase it correctly, leave LTTE aside, there is nothing wrong with Indians sympathizing for Srilankan Tamilians cause, right?

not at all. but the LTTE ceased being an organization that was fighting a just fight a very long time ago. long before rajiv gandhi's assassination. anyway didn't mean to divert the discussion. let's get back to iraq and palestine.

by Kris Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:48 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

kris -- that's a difficult question to answer in the abstract, but if you push me to answer it with a yes or no, i'd say no. having said that, israel needs the west, in particular the US and britain to be behind it, and with the tactics they are employing, they certainly are not helping themselves. at least if these tactics work one could say they are deplorable, but they seem to be working. they don't seem to be working. and something seems different this time around with regards to the unqualified support they have been getting from the west. why do you think that is?

>>>The short answer: The support for Israel is presumably due to the need to have a foothold in the volatile (oil-rich) middle east and Israel is the only country that is modern and reliable in the neighborhood.

The longer answer: I agree that the Israeli tactics are backfiring (and even from a PR standpoint) and as in all conflicts, innocents get caught in the cross-fire. The West (US) also has its back up to the wall. The moral dilemma in this conflict is you having to support a Goliath against a David. In a limited context, that is true, except when you step back you find out that David is not alone and he and his supporters are not just against Goliath. They actually have it in for anyone who is not like them, including possibly you. To the modern mind, this paranoid cultural mindset is anachronistic and therefore unfathomable. Yet, time and time again we see this manifest itself in acts of terrorism. As I have said before, I am not optimistic about any sustainable peace in the middle east.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:53 pm

has the US achieved any military objective to its complete satisfaction or even partial satisfaction any time after ww 2? how does this record tally with the money it has spent?

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so is it correct to say that the entire US exercise in iraq in which more than 1 trillion dollars were pissed away, not to mention iraqi and american lives lost, has been for naught?

That seems to be the case, in a nutshell. Geniuses Bush, Cheney played right into the hands of Saudi, Kuwaitis & their wahhabi aspirations

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:02 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so is it correct to say that the entire US exercise in iraq in which more than 1 trillion dollars were pissed away, not to mention iraqi and american lives lost, has been for naught?
That seems to be the case, in a nutshell. Geniuses Bush, Cheney played right into the hands of Saudi, Kuwaitis & their wahhabi aspirations

i am not sure obama is doing much better. he had to play the hand he had been given, but i feel the time has now come, no matter what the provocation, to say no military action unless american interests are threatened in a very direct way and not without congressional approval (that will put a kibosh on everything since these bozos don't work anyway, and they are never going to say yes to anything obama asks for). just limit the action to rendering humanitarian aid. let the europeans take up policing people if they want to.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:13 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:so is it correct to say that the entire US exercise in iraq in which more than 1 trillion dollars were pissed away, not to mention iraqi and american lives lost, has been for naught?
That seems to be the case, in a nutshell. Geniuses Bush, Cheney played right into the hands of Saudi, Kuwaitis & their wahhabi aspirations

i am not sure obama is doing much better. he had to play the hand he had been given, but i feel the time has now come, no matter what the provocation, to say no military action unless american interests are threatened in a very direct way and not without congressional approval (that will put a kibosh on everything since these bozos don't work anyway, and they are never going to say yes to anything obama asks for). just limit the action to rendering humanitarian aid. let the europeans take up policing people if they want to.

Can America distance itself from Iraq, especially when in dire need of help? the world is watching.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:10 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

kris -- that's a difficult question to answer in the abstract, but if you push me to answer it with a yes or no, i'd say no. having said that, israel needs the west, in particular the US and britain to be behind it,

>>>The short answer: The support for Israel is presumably due to the need to have a foothold in the volatile (oil-rich) middle east and Israel is the only country that is modern and reliable in the neighborhood.

The longer answer: I agree that the Israeli tactics are backfiring (and even from a PR standpoint) and as in all conflicts, innocents get caught in the cross-fire. The West (US) also has its back up to the wall. The moral dilemma in this conflict is you having to support a Goliath against a David. In a limited context, that is true, except when you step back you find out that David is not alone and he and his supporters are not just against Goliath. They actually have it in for anyone who is not like them, including possibly you. To the modern mind, this paranoid cultural mindset is anachronistic and therefore unfathomable. Yet, time and time again we see this manifest itself in acts of terrorism. As I have said before, I am not optimistic about any sustainable peace in the middle east.

You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.

US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.

by Hellsangel Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:13 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:as much as israel would like this to be seen as global terrorism, this is at its core a territorial dispute. let's never lose sight of that.

>>>If Israel had been muslim, do you think there would be this much hatred against it?

kris -- that's a difficult question to answer in the abstract, but if you push me to answer it with a yes or no, i'd say no. having said that, israel needs the west, in particular the US and britain to be behind it,

>>>The short answer: The support for Israel is presumably due to the need to have a foothold in the volatile (oil-rich) middle east and Israel is the only country that is modern and reliable in the neighborhood.

The longer answer: I agree that the Israeli tactics are backfiring (and even from a PR standpoint) and as in all conflicts, innocents get caught in the cross-fire. The West (US) also has its back up to the wall. The moral dilemma in this conflict is you having to support a Goliath against a David. In a limited context, that is true, except when you step back you find out that David is not alone and he and his supporters are not just against Goliath. They actually have it in for anyone who is not like them, including possibly you. To the modern mind, this paranoid cultural mindset is anachronistic and therefore unfathomable. Yet, time and time again we see this manifest itself in acts of terrorism. As I have said before, I am not optimistic about any sustainable peace in the middle east.

You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.

US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.

You made me look this up, Your Holiness:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

Incidentally, most of them are Democrats.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:34 pm

[quote="Hellsangel"]

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Kris wrote:

>>>The short answer: The support for Israel is presumably due to the need to have a foothold in the volatile (oil-rich) middle east and Israel is the only country that is modern and reliable in the neighborhood.

The longer answer: I agree that the Israeli tactics are backfiring (and even from a PR standpoint) and as in all conflicts, innocents get caught in the cross-fire.

You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.

US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.

You made me look this up, Your Holiness:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

Incidentally, most of them are Democrats.

That is besides the point and there are different reasons exist - but unifying in many ways. That is for another thread and lecture. -

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:57 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.

Powerful Jewish lobby to be precise; US will act impartial the day it becomes less influential

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.

A couple of differences a) Jews didn't migrate from the US to Israel b) Tamilians in SL were/are at the receiving end like the Palestines.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:02 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.
Powerful Jewish lobby to be precise; US will act impartial the day it becomes less influential
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.
A couple of differences a) Jews didn't migrate from the US to Israel b) Tamilians in SL were/are at the receiving end like the Palestines.

the reason Obamalu is bombing ISIS is bcz the minorities are Christians apart from the economic, military, geographical reasons.

Like jinnah ji said blood is thicker than water. all the reasons you gave and others dont matter when it involves people of same race, language and religion.

The same logic will not apply to africa, Japan, muslim countries, Turkey India. population and immigrant Sizes, influence and racial commonality matter.

by truthbetold Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.
Powerful Jewish lobby to be precise; US will act impartial the day it becomes less influential
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.
A couple of differences a) Jews didn't migrate from the US to Israel b) Tamilians in SL were/are at the receiving end like the Palestines.

the reason Obamalu is bombing ISIS is bcz the minorities are Christians apart from the economic, military, geographical reasons.

Like jinnah ji said blood is thicker than water. all the reasons you gave and others dont matter when it involves people of same race, language and religion.

The same logic will not apply to africa, Japan, muslim countries, Turkey India. population and immigrant Sizes, influence and racial commonality matter.

exactly samiyar. secular usa and secular Britain helped create Israel to fulfil the biblical prophecy. geopolitical location of israel is a less important factor than historical location of Palestine.

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:58 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.
Powerful Jewish lobby to be precise; US will act impartial the day it becomes less influential
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.
A couple of differences a) Jews didn't migrate from the US to Israel b) Tamilians in SL were/are at the receiving end like the Palestines.

the reason Obamalu is bombing ISIS is bcz the minorities are Christians apart from the economic, military, geographical reasons.

Like jinnah ji said blood is thicker than water. all the reasons you gave and others dont matter when it involves people of same race, language and religion.

The same logic will not apply to africa, Japan, muslim countries, Turkey India. population and immigrant Sizes, influence and racial commonality matter.

Yazidis are Christians?

by confuzzled dude Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:04 pm

A retired military general suggests (on Fox of course) building an air bridge from Germany to Irbil to supply Kurdish fighters Peshmerga with hi-tech arms and let them push ISIS back to the mountains.

by truthbetold Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:20 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
You guys are all way off the mark. The real reason why US is behind Israel is because, US jewish population just as large or larger than that in Israel. nations come and go, but limguistic and religious attachments last much longer.
Powerful Jewish lobby to be precise; US will act impartial the day it becomes less influential
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
US support to Israel is no different than the Tamilian attachment (from TN) to the tamils of SL.
A couple of differences a) Jews didn't migrate from the US to Israel b) Tamilians in SL were/are at the receiving end like the Palestines.

the reason Obamalu is bombing ISIS is bcz the minorities are Christians apart from the economic, military, geographical reasons.

Like jinnah ji said blood is thicker than water. all the reasons you gave and others dont matter when it involves people of same race, language and religion.

The same logic will not apply to africa, Japan, muslim countries, Turkey India. population and immigrant Sizes, influence and racial commonality matter.
Yazidis are Christians?

Obama said he is determined not only to protect American citizens in Iraq but also to prevent "an act of genocide" against tens of thousands of Christian and ethno-religious Yazidi refugees.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/obama-warns-long-term-project-iraq-n176741

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:21 pm

yazidis are distant cousins of the parsis i thought. followers of zarathushtra.

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