confuzzled dude wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.

Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

You were the one who said your family used to be sudras as per the classical varna system but are now classified as upper caste hindus. My contention is that your family could have made the leap to OBC status but not upper caste hindu status if it started off as sudras.

Can you show me where I said that? I suggest you file a petition with the Govt. of India as they appear to have erroneously classified us in FC/GC category.

P.S: Are you getting lessons on debating techniques from Sevaji or what?

Rashmun wrote: U said it this post:

https://such.forumotion.com/t27053-bihar-cm-a-dalit-says-he-is-still-treated-as-an-untouchable-by-some#177585

Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Rashmun wrote: U said it this post:

https://such.forumotion.com/t27053-bihar-cm-a-dalit-says-he-is-still-treated-as-an-untouchable-by-some#177585

Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

Where?!

Rashmun wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Rashmun wrote: U said it this post:

https://such.forumotion.com/t27053-bihar-cm-a-dalit-says-he-is-still-treated-as-an-untouchable-by-some#177585

Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

Where?!

In the first sentence of your post you mentioned that your family would be classified as sudras under the classical varna system but that they are today classified as FC category ( meaning upper caste hindus).

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong. 

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management.  What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

goodcitizn wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong. 

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management.  What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

What is not considered here is the routine dowse/rinse/dry cycle that temple idols are subjected to in heavy doses of ghee, honey, curd, milk etc regardless of the arrival and departure of a dalit. The only way for secularism and indiscrimination to survive in India is to do away with washing temple idols altogether.

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong. 

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management.  What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

What is not considered here is the routine dowse/rinse/dry cycle that temple idols are subjected to in heavy doses of ghee, honey, curd, milk etc regardless of the arrival and departure of a dalit. The only way for secularism and indiscrimination to survive in India is to do away with washing temple idols altogether.

LOL.  So, you want to make Hindu worship practices completely sikular and Hindus don't have say in it. The Dalit CM should clean his head first and stop playing politics with temples.

goodcitizn wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong. 

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management.  What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

What is not considered here is the routine dowse/rinse/dry cycle that temple idols are subjected to in heavy doses of ghee, honey, curd, milk etc regardless of the arrival and departure of a dalit. The only way for secularism and indiscrimination to survive in India is to do away with washing temple idols altogether.

truthbetold wrote:The question is simple:  If the idols were washed because they were used for a ritual involving an untouchable,  it it right or wrong?  

Whether the particular incident because of religious arrogance/ignorance or politically motivated is a secondary issue. 

The answers in this thread do not inspire confidence that many posters actually believe cleaning idols is wrong.

truthbetold wrote:Rash

Are we not educated individuals who can think for themselves? It should not be surprising that an individual may agree with another individual (poster xyz) on one or two issues and differ with same person (poster xyz) on many different issues. 

There is some common ground on the issue of reservation between me and CD.

On gun control, I may agree with few of Max's views. 

On jihadi terrorism I may agree with Prop.

On the development of AP, I may share views with VP. 

If you pay attention, we are not just opposing groups of hindu supporters and jhadi apologists,  north indians vs south indians and modi supporters vs congress supporters.

Rashmun wrote:

truthbetold wrote:Rash

Are we not educated individuals who can think for themselves? It should not be surprising that an individual may agree with another individual (poster xyz) on one or two issues and differ with same person (poster xyz) on many different issues. 

There is some common ground on the issue of reservation between me and CD.

On gun control, I may agree with few of Max's views. 

On jihadi terrorism I may agree with Prop.

On the development of AP, I may share views with VP. 

If you pay attention, we are not just opposing groups of hindu supporters and jhadi apologists,  north indians vs south indians and modi supporters vs congress supporters.

You are right. It is possible that intellectually you and CD have a common view on caste based reservations for OBCs. I was just wondering whether your support for reservations for OBCs is because you guys have benefited from reservation personally and would like these benefits to continue to be extended to your families. Forgive me for getting personal but there is no other way of putting this. After all I have also been told on this forum that I am opposed to caste based reservations because I am an upper caste hindu.

Rashmun wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong. 

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management.  What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

What is not considered here is the routine dowse/rinse/dry cycle that temple idols are subjected to in heavy doses of ghee, honey, curd, milk etc regardless of the arrival and departure of a dalit. The only way for secularism and indiscrimination to survive in India is to do away with washing temple idols altogether.

It seems wasteful and shameful to scrub the temple idols multiple times in a day with milk, curd, ghee, honey, etc. when millions in India are starving. There is a Hindu sect called Arya Samajis which does away with the practice of keeping idols in their Arya Samaji Hindu temples and this is something that needs to be reflected upon.

truthbetold wrote:Goodcitizen

What is meant it has ovtlived its usefulness? Are you saying it helped and now social discrimination is no longer an issue?
How confident are you that 'economics and merit based system' will help sc/st students get into higher education at similar rates as present reservation system?

truthbetold wrote:Rashmun
There is a belief system behind Hindu religious rituals. So waste is a question of belief.

A bigger question to all religions is the amount of time a person spends on religious activities. If you add all the time that people spend on prayers,  pilgrimages, etc that is a huge chunk of human existence.

truthbetold wrote:Goodcitizen

What is meant it has ovtlived its usefulness? Are you saying it helped and now social discrimination is no longer an issue?
How confident are you that 'economics and merit based system' will help sc/st students get into higher education at similar rates as present reservation system?

goodcitizn wrote:
It wouldn't be wasteful or shameful if the honey, ghee or milk poured over the idol is saved in a hygienic way to be given back as prasad to the worshippers or charity to the poor. Just washing these offerings and sending them down the sewage is tragic.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

goodcitizn wrote:
It wouldn't be wasteful or shameful if the honey, ghee or milk poured over the idol is saved in a hygienic way to be given back as prasad to the worshippers or charity to the poor. Just washing these offerings and sending them down the sewage is tragic.

Sadhguru has an excellent explanation on Abhishekam and its purpose.

Rashmun wrote:Two Dalit widows have been appointed as priests at a temple in south-west India, in a rare move for a country where caste prejudice is still rife.

The temple, in Karnataka state's coastal city Mangalore, was founded by social reformer Narayana Guru in 1912.

Widows have been allowed to perform rituals there before, but never Dalits.

Dalits, India's lowest caste, still face widespread discrimination, despite the country's prohibition of the practice in 1995.

Lakshmi, 65, and 46-year-old Chandravathi, were received at the entrance to the Kudroli Gokarnanatheshwara Temple by a former government minister, Janardhan Poojary, and other temple officials.

Mr Poojary said the women were selected "according to the teachings of social reformer Sri Narayana Guru", who considered everyone equally as children of God.

He told the BBC that his own childhood experience of caste discrimination, from within the Billava community, had strengthened his resolve to address a problem which persists despite various laws prohibiting it.

"I have seen the plight of the untouchables because I have myself suffered it. I am part of the toddy-tapping community of Billava who were barred from entering the temple. We were told we are not children of God," he said.

'Revolutionary step'
Some local commentators in Karnataka have welcomed the move.

"What Poojary has done is outstanding. It is revolutionary. People of lower castes are not even allowed to enter the sanctum santorum," the writer K Marulasiddappa said.

The Dalit writer Indudhara Honnapura said he is confident it will happen "elsewhere [in India] too".

Reports say the two widow priests will now receive at least three years of further training by the chief priest at the temple, Lakshman "Shanti", but temple officials did not confirm this.

The temple was renovated in 1991 and inaugurated by the then Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi.

In 2012 his widow, Sonia, attended celebrations to mark the temple's centenary, when 5,000 widows were first allowed to enter the temple and perform "puja" or religious rites.

The practice of untouchability, in which members of India's higher castes will not touch anything that has come into physical contact with those at the bottom, still exists in the world's largest democracy despite being banned.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29433859