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Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
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Marathadi-Saamiyaar
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Propagandhi711
southindian
Hellsangel
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Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/08/islam-preaches-tolerance-of-critics-no-matter-what-the-charlie-hebdo-attackers-believe/The most commonly used phrase by Muslims today is “isā’ah,” which has a range of meanings, including “insult, harm and offense.” But this term is not associated with a certain jurisprudential punishment in a way that makes all Muslims feel obliged to attack the actors.
Therefore, many writers throughout different parts of Islamic history have criticized Islamic belief, including the prophet Muhammad and the Quran, without facing persecution. A quick look at the books about sects and creeds in Islam shows a great variety of discussions and debates between Muslims and non-Muslims about the essential parts of Islam. Many include sarcastic language. For instance, when defending his nonbelief in religions, renowned Arab philosopher Abul al-Ala al-Ma’arri said:
If you ask my religion I would say I am not dumb.
Ibn al-Rawandi also dedicated sections of his books to countering the Quran in Baghdad. Furthermore, in the contemporary era, Iraqi writer and poet Maarouf al-Rasafi disputed the religious aspect of the prophet Muhammad’s life in his book “The Muhamadiyan Personality.”
The reality is that the persecution of blasphemers as it is done currently is a very recent phenomenon. Generally, one could say that the Rushdie fatwa was the beginning of this trend.
The founders of Political Islam are known as the innovators of this trend. That is why we can see many secular scholars, writers and poets at the start of the 20th century writing against Islam in many different dimensions, such as Zaki Naguib Mahmoud, who is known for advocating positivist philosophy in the Arab world, and Najib Mahfouz, who won the 1988 Nobel Prize for Literature.
-> This sort of debate and discussion from within is a good start.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
You think it is just the Charlie Hebdo attackers from that religion who believe that?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
huh! What part of my comment said it is the rule?Hellsangel wrote:You think it is just the Charlie Hebdo attackers from that religion who believe that?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
"Islam preaches TOLERANCE..." WHAT????
ROTFL
When did the above happen? When?
ROTFL
When did the above happen? When?
southindian- Posts : 4643
Join date : 2012-10-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
I apologize...
Does that mean...Be tolerant, while you are being slaughtered?
Yaxplain plez...
Does that mean...Be tolerant, while you are being slaughtered?
Yaxplain plez...
southindian- Posts : 4643
Join date : 2012-10-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:huh! What part of my comment said it is the rule?Hellsangel wrote:You think it is just the Charlie Hebdo attackers from that religion who believe that?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
so you only standby your comment, not the title?
Propagandhi711- Posts : 6941
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
islam of today is where christianity was in the 14th century and is badly in need of a renaissance.
bw- Posts : 2922
Join date : 2012-11-15
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/08/islam-preaches-tolerance-of-critics-no-matter-what-the-charlie-hebdo-attackers-believe/The most commonly used phrase by Muslims today is “isā’ah,” which has a range of meanings, including “insult, harm and offense.” But this term is not associated with a certain jurisprudential punishment in a way that makes all Muslims feel obliged to attack the actors.
Therefore, many writers throughout different parts of Islamic history have criticized Islamic belief, including the prophet Muhammad and the Quran, without facing persecution. A quick look at the books about sects and creeds in Islam shows a great variety of discussions and debates between Muslims and non-Muslims about the essential parts of Islam. Many include sarcastic language. For instance, when defending his nonbelief in religions, renowned Arab philosopher Abul al-Ala al-Ma’arri said:
If you ask my religion I would say I am not dumb.
Ibn al-Rawandi also dedicated sections of his books to countering the Quran in Baghdad. Furthermore, in the contemporary era, Iraqi writer and poet Maarouf al-Rasafi disputed the religious aspect of the prophet Muhammad’s life in his book “The Muhamadiyan Personality.”
The reality is that the persecution of blasphemers as it is done currently is a very recent phenomenon. Generally, one could say that the Rushdie fatwa was the beginning of this trend.
The founders of Political Islam are known as the innovators of this trend. That is why we can see many secular scholars, writers and poets at the start of the 20th century writing against Islam in many different dimensions, such as Zaki Naguib Mahmoud, who is known for advocating positivist philosophy in the Arab world, and Najib Mahfouz, who won the 1988 Nobel Prize for Literature.
-> This sort of debate and discussion from within is a good start.
When did you join Owaisi's party ? You are true to your birth religion as interpreted by your good muslim leader.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-blasphemy-and-the-law-of-fanatics/2015/01/08/b0c14e38-9770-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html?hpid=z5One holy book is deeply concerned with blasphemy: the Bible. In the Old Testament, blasphemy and blasphemers are condemned and prescribed harsh punishment. The best-known passage on this is Leviticus 24:16 : “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.”
By contrast, the word blasphemy appears nowhere in the Koran. (Nor, incidentally, does the Koran anywhere forbid creating images of Muhammad, though there are commentaries and traditions — “hadith” — that do, to guard against idol worship.)Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan has pointed out that “there are more than 200 verses in the Koran, which reveal that the contemporaries of the prophets repeatedly perpetrated the same act, which is now called ‘blasphemy or abuse of the Prophet’ . . . but nowhere does the Koran prescribe the punishment of lashes, or death, or any other physical punishment.” On several occasions, Muhammad treated people who ridiculed him and his teachings with understanding and kindness. “In Islam,” Khan says, “blasphemy is a subject of intellectual discussion rather than a subject of physical punishment.”
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
You're very defensive of Islam, aren't you, Comrade? The difference is Judaism and Christianity went through reformation periods. The only Jewish state doesn't even follow most of the Mosaic laws.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-blasphemy-and-the-law-of-fanatics/2015/01/08/b0c14e38-9770-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html?hpid=z5One holy book is deeply concerned with blasphemy: the Bible. In the Old Testament, blasphemy and blasphemers are condemned and prescribed harsh punishment. The best-known passage on this is Leviticus 24:16 : “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.”
By contrast, the word blasphemy appears nowhere in the Koran. (Nor, incidentally, does the Koran anywhere forbid creating images of Muhammad, though there are commentaries and traditions — “hadith” — that do, to guard against idol worship.)Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan has pointed out that “there are more than 200 verses in the Koran, which reveal that the contemporaries of the prophets repeatedly perpetrated the same act, which is now called ‘blasphemy or abuse of the Prophet’ . . . but nowhere does the Koran prescribe the punishment of lashes, or death, or any other physical punishment.” On several occasions, Muhammad treated people who ridiculed him and his teachings with understanding and kindness. “In Islam,” Khan says, “blasphemy is a subject of intellectual discussion rather than a subject of physical punishment.”
But, on all other occasions Muhammad beheaded and killed those who even remotely criticized him - the method followed by the Jehadis and "quietly" lip-serviced by the rest of the Ummah.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
Defensive, why do I care? I was merely pointing out to our NRI patriots, who opine that muslim intellectuals don't do enough.Hellsangel wrote:You're very defensive of Islam, aren't you, Comrade? The difference is Judaism and Christianity went through reformation periods. The only Jewish state doesn't even follow most of the Mosaic laws.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
Oh, but you do.confuzzled dude wrote:Defensive, why do I care? I was merely pointing out to our NRI patriots, who opine that muslim intellectuals don't do enough.Hellsangel wrote:You're very defensive of Islam, aren't you, Comrade? The difference is Judaism and Christianity went through reformation periods. The only Jewish state doesn't even follow most of the Mosaic laws.
Hellsangel- Posts : 14721
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:Defensive, why do I care? I was merely pointing out to our NRI patriots, who opine that muslim intellectuals don't do enough.Hellsangel wrote:You're very defensive of Islam, aren't you, Comrade? The difference is Judaism and Christianity went through reformation periods. The only Jewish state doesn't even follow most of the Mosaic laws.
Of course...of course....You are the epitome of fairness and support the oppressed with your brilliant explanations. The NRI patriots might otherwise believe the wrong things attributed to the French, Germans, and the Europeans about pieceful muslims.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
>>>1) How many Jews or Christians have engaged in beheadings?confuzzled dude wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-blasphemy-and-the-law-of-fanatics/2015/01/08/b0c14e38-9770-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html?hpid=z5One holy book is deeply concerned with blasphemy: the Bible. In the Old Testament, blasphemy and blasphemers are condemned and prescribed harsh punishment. The best-known passage on this is Leviticus 24:16 : “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.”
By contrast, the word blasphemy appears nowhere in the Koran. (Nor, incidentally, does the Koran anywhere forbid creating images of Muhammad, though there are commentaries and traditions — “hadith” — that do, to guard against idol worship.)Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan has pointed out that “there are more than 200 verses in the Koran, which reveal that the contemporaries of the prophets repeatedly perpetrated the same act, which is now called ‘blasphemy or abuse of the Prophet’ . . . but nowhere does the Koran prescribe the punishment of lashes, or death, or any other physical punishment.” On several occasions, Muhammad treated people who ridiculed him and his teachings with understanding and kindness. “In Islam,” Khan says, “blasphemy is a subject of intellectual discussion rather than a subject of physical punishment.”
2) What is this obsession with idol worship? I want to worship my car or a graven image of Cameron Diaz or Vishnu. Why is it someone else's problem?
3) So the killing is Paris- this was intellectual discussion, not physical punishment?
It is time to tell the freaking emperor he has no clothes instead of this endless apologia.
Kris- Posts : 5460
Join date : 2011-04-28
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
Hellsangel wrote:You think it is just the Charlie Hebdo attackers from that religion who believe that?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
Why so much scorn? Our local kings of inanity forever criticize Muslim intellectuals for not speaking up. And when they do, you brush it off as an exception.
I think it is constructive to support any and every initiative that tones down overt religiosity and helps usher religions - particularly Islam - into the 21st century.
Those initiatives, by their very nature, will never tame the mouth-breathing hordes and the terrorists, just as a Upps Aunty or Avivek will never overcome their visceral fear of Muslims no matter how much one reasons with them. But hopefully, it will diminish the perceived legitimacy of extreme opinions and draw the silent majority away from the fringe. That itself could be the best gift we could give to the coming generations.
Merlot Daruwala- Posts : 5005
Join date : 2011-04-29
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
Cd
Lot of stuff is written in religious books. What is important is what is the action resulting from such books in today's world. The group that follows Koran are indulging in terrorist acts killing innocent people. These actions are disrupting normal societal functions and security of ordinary people. Hence the need for firm action to eliminate disrupters and smart , sustained effort to drain the swamp that breeds these terrorists.
Lot of stuff is written in religious books. What is important is what is the action resulting from such books in today's world. The group that follows Koran are indulging in terrorist acts killing innocent people. These actions are disrupting normal societal functions and security of ordinary people. Hence the need for firm action to eliminate disrupters and smart , sustained effort to drain the swamp that breeds these terrorists.
truthbetold- Posts : 6799
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:
-> This sort of debate and discussion from within is a good start.
It may be a great TEXTBOOK. But, apparently the "students" are failing miserably. No failing student can get admission based on the fact that he followed a great text book.
These failed students are simply not fit for the class. They deserve some real harsh punishment to make them "learn" their great textbook or throw them in the society's gutter to clean the latrines.
Time for iSlamic Intellectuals to "speak up" and take charge of their Ummah is long gone. Others need to step in and "clean" their dirty home.
P.S. BTW, your much admired Ummah friends are holding 5 hostages in Paris.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
You are wasting your Sikular mind. iSlam has no hope in hell to reform. Dr. PBUH put the last nail in its coffin. It is destined to be dropped in the garbage bin of history. How? - you may wonder! Unlike in Judaism and Christianity, unkil Gabriel "said" to Dr. PBUH (when he had one of his temporal lobe episodes) that he would be the last "prophet" for humanity. By doing so, unkil Gabriel froze monomanicas in the 7th century and in perpetual confrontation with change and new thinking.Merlot Daruwala wrote:Hellsangel wrote:You think it is just the Charlie Hebdo attackers from that religion who believe that?
And you think WaPo posting about this exception makes it the rule?
Why so much scorn? Our local kings of inanity forever criticize Muslim intellectuals for not speaking up. And when they do, you brush it off as an exception.
I think it is constructive to support any and every initiative that tones down overt religiosity and helps usher religions - particularly Islam - into the 21st century.
Those initiatives, by their very nature, will never tame the mouth-breathing hordes and the terrorists, just as a Upps Aunty or Avivek will never overcome their visceral fear of Muslims no matter how much one reasons with them. But hopefully, it will diminish the perceived legitimacy of extreme opinions and draw the silent majority away from the fringe. That itself could be the best gift we could give to the coming generations.
To be fair, the achievement of Dr. PBUH was remarkable considering that the Bedouins still wipe their behinds with rocks and smell camels on a regular basis.
Re-introducing science and logic in Europe and fostering medicine & architecture, etc., were considered to be great achievements of iSlam. This is as true as the Arabic numerals being Arabic. An elephant that destroys the vegetation to survive, wanders around to find new green areas and deposits the seed of knowledge elsewhere as dung, is no intellectual.
If monomaniac intellectuals claim that they are secular, that is the biggest joke of history. If they claim that they are tolerant of non-Semitic religions, they are lying through their teeth (and are committing blasphemy by negating what the LAST prophet had decided).
Piece, piece, piece!
Vakavaka Pakapaka- Posts : 7611
Join date : 2012-08-24
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
Isn't that what these guys are doing by suggesting and providing examples that criticism of god is accepted which [hopefully] will have some impact on these misguided young people.Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
It may be a great TEXTBOOK. But, apparently the "students" are failing miserably. No failing student can get admission based on the fact that he followed a great text book.
These failed students are simply not fit for the class. They deserve some real harsh punishment to make them "learn" their great textbook or throw them in the society's gutter to clean the latrines.
Time for iSlamic Intellectuals to "speak up" and take charge of their Ummah is long gone. Others need to step in and "clean" their dirty home.
Confusion much? These are the kind of you admire a lot, chaddis, in this case muslim-chaddis.Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
P.S. BTW, your much admired Ummah friends are holding 5 hostages in Paris.
confuzzled dude- Posts : 10205
Join date : 2011-05-08
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
confuzzled dude wrote:Confusion much? These are the kind of you admire a lot, chaddis, in this case muslim-chaddis.Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
P.S. BTW, your much admired Ummah friends are holding 5 hostages in Paris.
Lets make a deal:
Start a survey and let the SuCHers vote who the jehadi admirer is in this place.
Marathadi-Saamiyaar- Posts : 17675
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 110
Re: Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed
"Islam preaches tolerance of critics, no matter what the Charlie Hebdo attackers believed"
I keep reading the above subject line and keep thinking, is the writer of above lines blind, deaf or an idiot?
I can name at least 30 countries in the world where Islam followers have conflict with societies in that country.
Where are those Muslims getting their hated doctrine from?
I keep reading the above subject line and keep thinking, is the writer of above lines blind, deaf or an idiot?
I can name at least 30 countries in the world where Islam followers have conflict with societies in that country.
Where are those Muslims getting their hated doctrine from?
southindian- Posts : 4643
Join date : 2012-10-08
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