MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I used to believe the wisdom that's trotted out, namely that economic deprivation explains Drumpf's rise, but here is something to think about:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

So I am not buying this anymore.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I used to believe the wisdom that's trotted out, namely that economic deprivation explains Drumpf's rise, but here is something to think about:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

So I am not buying this anymore.

Trump's supporters are mostly hard working middle class people, with pride, who want jobs, not the free stuff thrown out at them by the government. Democratic supporters are mostly free loaders, most of who don't mind being parasites on the system. That explains the vaiance of median incomes between dem and rep supporters. Note that Sanders, with his socialistic leanings, have the supporters with the lowest median income.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:By the way I don't want to read too much into the data I posted, but I did want to point out that Drumpf's base is not predominantly made up of the economically deprived. I think there's a lot more to unpack about this but the simplistic assumption that those affected by globalization are driving Drumpf's support is just plain wrong.

The assertion that Dem supporters are free loaders is also wrong. Actual and anecdotal evidence says that many silicon valley execs are Hillary supporters. Hillary also counts Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg etc among her supporters. Bill Gates is normally not open about his choice, but he has hinted broadly that he is supporting Clinton. There are many many more.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:By the way I don't want to read too much into the data I posted, but I did want to point out that Drumpf's base is not predominantly made up of the economically deprived. I think there's a lot more to unpack about this but the simplistic assumption that those affected by globalization are driving Drumpf's support is just plain wrong.

The assertion that Dem supporters are free loaders is also wrong. Actual and anecdotal evidence says that many silicon valley execs are Hillary supporters. Hillary also counts Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg etc among her supporters. Bill Gates is normally not open about his choice, but he has hinted broadly that he is supporting Clinton. There are many many more.

The super rich who you mentioned want globalization for their own business interests. The rest of the majority of dem supporters want free stuff from the govt....medicaid, medicare, social security, free college, etc and they want the rich to pay for all that through higher taxes 'we are entitled to get the free stuff because we are poor and the rich got to pay for all that, coz how dare they are rich.' Democratic election promises revolve around doling out free stuff and increasing the taxes for the rich and that makes the dem supporters mighty happy.

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:By the way I don't want to read too much into the data I posted, but I did want to point out that Drumpf's base is not predominantly made up of the economically deprived. I think there's a lot more to unpack about this but the simplistic assumption that those affected by globalization are driving Drumpf's support is just plain wrong.

The assertion that Dem supporters are free loaders is also wrong. Actual and anecdotal evidence says that many silicon valley execs are Hillary supporters. Hillary also counts Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg etc among her supporters. Bill Gates is normally not open about his choice, but he has hinted broadly that he is supporting Clinton. There are many many more.

The super rich who you mentioned want globalization for their own business interests. The rest of the majority of dem supporters want free stuff from the govt....medicaid, medicare, social security, free college, etc and they want the rich to pay for all that through higher taxes 'we are entitled to get the free stuff because we are poor and the rich got to pay for all that, coz how dare they are rich.' Democratic election promises revolve around doling out free stuff and increasing the taxes for the rich and that makes the dem supporters mighty happy.

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

Hellsangel wrote:http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

Kinnera wrote:
max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

Kinnera wrote: Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

You seem to have ignored everything I said about social security, Medicaid etc and getting back what we paid into the system already. I too plan to extract from social security all that I am eligible for when I become eligible (if it still exists at the end of my working life).  You may be closer to that, so here is a book of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766

In an earlier post you dissed Sanders supporters as the worst freeloaders because they have the lowest incomes. Sanders supporters have low incomes because the vast majority of them are young people who are still early in their working careers or in college. That's not surprising at all. It's not because they are free loaders but because they are still in the process of engaging in fully developed careers or in the process of furthering their education.  They are people of our children's generation. Do you think it's fair to characterize them as you did?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

You seem to have ignored everything I said about social security, Medicaid etc and getting back what we paid into the system already. I too plan to extract from social security all that I am eligible for when I become eligible (if it still exists at the end of my working life).  You may be closer to that, so here is a book of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766

In an earlier post you dissed Sanders supporters as the worst freeloaders because they have the lowest incomes. Sanders supporters have low incomes because the vast majority of them are young people who are still early in their working careers or in college. That's not surprising at all. It's not because they are free loaders but because they are still in the process of engaging in fully developed careers or in the process of furthering their education. They are people of our children's generation. Do you think it's fair to characterize them as you did?

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

The republican promises revolve around jobs, jobs and jobs, not free stuff. It's all about keeping the jobs within America, lowering the taxes (because the ones with jobs are the ones who pay taxes, so it appeals to them), even lowering the taxes for the rich so they can generate more investments and hence more jobs, etc. No free loading talk.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

You seem to have ignored everything I said about social security, Medicaid etc and getting back what we paid into the system already. I too plan to extract from social security all that I am eligible for when I become eligible (if it still exists at the end of my working life).  You may be closer to that, so here is a book of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766

In an earlier post you dissed Sanders supporters as the worst freeloaders because they have the lowest incomes. Sanders supporters have low incomes because the vast majority of them are young people who are still early in their working careers or in college. That's not surprising at all. It's not because they are free loaders but because they are still in the process of engaging in fully developed careers or in the process of furthering their education.  They are people of our children's generation. Do you think it's fair to characterize them as you did?

I remember a quote in Telugu that i read in my late teens or early twenties when Naxalism was at its peak and I too was fascinated by it: 'paatikellu vacchina sama samajam gurinchi matladakapote neelo edo lopam unnadannamaata. Paatikellu daatina inka sama samajam gurinchi matladithe neelo edo lopam unnadanna maata.' Rough translation: If you are 25 and still haven't talked about socialism and communism, there's something wrong with you. If you are past 25 and still talk about socialism and communism, then there's something wrong with you.'
Let these college kids work hard, succeed, earn well and start paying taxes. Then they will know.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

What we do know about Drumpf is that he pissed away close to a billion dollars, filed multiple bankruptcies, and stiffed the people who did contract work for him. Not a good recipe for job creation.

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

You seem to have ignored everything I said about social security, Medicaid etc and getting back what we paid into the system already. I too plan to extract from social security all that I am eligible for when I become eligible (if it still exists at the end of my working life).  You may be closer to that, so here is a book of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766

In an earlier post you dissed Sanders supporters as the worst freeloaders because they have the lowest incomes. Sanders supporters have low incomes because the vast majority of them are young people who are still early in their working careers or in college. That's not surprising at all. It's not because they are free loaders but because they are still in the process of engaging in fully developed careers or in the process of furthering their education.  They are people of our children's generation. Do you think it's fair to characterize them as you did?

I remember a quote in Telugu that i read in my late teens or early twenties when Naxalism was at its peak and I too was fascinated by it: 'paatikellu vacchina sama samajam gurinchi matladakapote neelo edo lopam unnadannamaata. Paatikellu daatina inka sama samajam gurinchi matladithe neelo edo lopam unnadanna maata.' Rough translation: If you are 25 and still haven't talked about socialism and communism, there's something wrong with you. If you are past 25 and still talk about socialism and communism, then there's something wrong with you.'
Let these college kids work hard, succeed, earn well and start paying taxes. Then they will know.

Many of them are. They don't have well off parents to pay their tuition. They are often working two jobs just to survive and wracking up student debt in the process. The point is you dismissed Sanders supporters as free loaders. I gave you an explanation of why their income may be low -- they are in college and don't have full time employment yet. And now you have shifted the goal post and giving them advice instead. I know a lot of these people. They are some of the hardest working people I know.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

max, whatever the stats or the numbers say, it doesn't matter. Republicans' vote banks are 'hard working' people and Dems' are the poor inner city people and hence their empty promises to impress those ppl. (We were about why the median incomes of rep voters are higher than dems', r'ber?)

btw, i am as disgusted with Trump as I am with the Clintons (and the biased media and the hypocritical supporters). Let me clarify. I am no trump supporter. Enough of Trump bashing already. Beware! too much of it can backfire as it did in the case of Modi.

You seem to have ignored everything I said about social security, Medicaid etc and getting back what we paid into the system already. I too plan to extract from social security all that I am eligible for when I become eligible (if it still exists at the end of my working life).  You may be closer to that, so here is a book of interest:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Revised-Security/dp/1501144766

In an earlier post you dissed Sanders supporters as the worst freeloaders because they have the lowest incomes. Sanders supporters have low incomes because the vast majority of them are young people who are still early in their working careers or in college. That's not surprising at all. It's not because they are free loaders but because they are still in the process of engaging in fully developed careers or in the process of furthering their education.  They are people of our children's generation. Do you think it's fair to characterize them as you did?

I remember a quote in Telugu that i read in my late teens or early twenties when Naxalism was at its peak and I too was fascinated by it: 'paatikellu vacchina sama samajam gurinchi matladakapote neelo edo lopam unnadannamaata. Paatikellu daatina inka sama samajam gurinchi matladithe neelo edo lopam unnadanna maata.' Rough translation: If you are 25 and still haven't talked about socialism and communism, there's something wrong with you. If you are past 25 and still talk about socialism and communism, then there's something wrong with you.'
Let these college kids work hard, succeed, earn well and start paying taxes. Then they will know.

Many of them are. They don't have well off parents to pay their tuition. They are often working two jobs just to survive and wracking up student debt in the process. The point is you dismissed Sanders supporters as free loaders. I gave you an explanation of why their income may be low -- they are in college and don't have full time employment yet. And now you have shifted the goal post and giving them advice instead. I know a lot of these people. They are some of the hardest working people I know.

.

Ok. Let me modify. Sanders' supporters are mostly college students with meager incomes and student loans. Free loaders are mostly Clinton's supporters.

silvermani wrote:Anyone else find it odd that the author's last name is Wong?

http://www.cracked.com/members/David%20Wong/ wrote:
I am the Executive Editor of Cracked.com and NYT bestselling author David Wong, which is the pseudonym of a real person named Jason Pargin.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

The one thing that gives a lie to what you just said is that the most well off states in the union -- MD, CT, NJ, MA etc are very heavily democratic even though the median income of Clinton voters across the nation may be lower.  

Scarlet O'Hara wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

The one thing that gives a lie to what you just said is that the most well off states in the union -- MD, CT, NJ, MA etc are very heavily democratic even though the median income of Clinton voters across the nation may be lower.  

You mean "the liberals"? Many republicans have been long brainwashed against them and their close cousins, "the intellectuals", and now much violently against the subset of these: "the media". Am currently unsure where to place "the elite" in terms of "the freeloaders".

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:right the drumpf morons can't make up their minds who their enemies are -- muslims, jews, the so called elite and intellectuals, brown people, yellow people, mexicans, african americans, basically anyone unlike them -- not white and not evangelical christians.  i wonder who among those they love to hate are the free loaders. maybe the drumpf supporters here can tell us.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:right the drumpf morons can't make up their minds who their enemies are -- muslims, jews, the so called elite and intellectuals, brown people, yellow people, mexicans, african americans, basically anyone unlike them -- not white and not evangelical christians.  i wonder who among those they love to hate are the free loaders. maybe the drumpf supporters here can tell us.

According to the rhetoric by both the parties, 'the hard working people of America' are a 'basket of irredeemable deplorables': the misogynists, xenophobes, islamophobes, racists, etc. So that leaves the non-deplorables or the redeemable deplorables to be the non-hard working people of america aka freeloaders. I know that the leftists(as they are called in India) aka the liberals (as called in US) want to think of themselves as intellectuals and elitists. It's up to them to figure out where they fall into the category of freeloaders. 

PS: If one isn't sick of this whole election thing, then one is a moron who blindly supports either of the parties.

Kinnera wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:right the drumpf morons can't make up their minds who their enemies are -- muslims, jews, the so called elite and intellectuals, brown people, yellow people, mexicans, african americans, basically anyone unlike them -- not white and not evangelical christians.  i wonder who among those they love to hate are the free loaders. maybe the drumpf supporters here can tell us.

According to the rhetoric by both the parties, 'the hard working people of America' are a 'basket of irredeemable deplorables': the misogynists, xenophobes, islamophobes, racists, etc. So that leaves the non-deplorables or the redeemable deplorables to be the non-hard working people of america aka freeloaders. I know that the leftists(as they are called in India) aka the liberals (as called in US) want to think of themselves as intellectuals and elitists. It's up to them to figure out where they fall into the category of freeloaders. 

PS: If one isn't sick of this whole election thing, then one is a moron who blindly supports either of the parties.

Kinnera wrote:Trump's supporters are mostly hard working middle class people, with pride, who want jobs, not the free stuff thrown out at them by the government. Democratic supporters are mostly free loaders, most of who don't mind being parasites on the system.

Kinnera wrote:That explains the vaiance of median incomes between dem and rep supporters. Note that Sanders, with his socialistic leanings, have the supporters with the lowest median income.