Rashmun wrote:
it was not surprising to me because TN and AP share a border. It is obvious that many tamilians would be knowing telugu and many telugus would be knowing tamil. the fact that both tamilians and telugus have composed works in hindi/hindustani is comparatively more surprising.

it's not just because of border sharing and the reason you don't know it is because of your incredible ability to focus on the trivially obvious and miss real insight. tamilians and telugus share something far more precious than a border and a common linguistic heritage. they are the joint custodians of one of two of india's most important musical genres, carnatic music (the other being north indian classical music or what is more popularly referred to as hindustani music). hence the linguistic cross pollination in music.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
it was not surprising to me because TN and AP share a border. It is obvious that many tamilians would be knowing telugu and many telugus would be knowing tamil. the fact that both tamilians and telugus have composed works in hindi/hindustani is comparatively more surprising.

it's not just because of border sharing and the reason you don't know it is because of your incredible ability to focus on the trivially obvious and miss real insight. tamilians and telugus share something far more precious than a border and a common linguistic heritage. they are the joint custodians of one of two of india's most important musical genres, carnatic music (the other being north indian classical music or what is more popularly referred to as hindustani music). hence the linguistic cross pollination in music.

what about kannadigas and malayalis? are they not custodians of carnatic music as well? Moreover, these days Carnatic music classes and performances are being held all over North India. So all Indians are joint custodians of Carnatic music.

Rashmun wrote:
what about kannadigas and malayalis? are they not custodians of carnatic music as well? Moreover, these days Carnatic music classes and performances are being held all over North India. So all Indians are joint custodians of Carnatic music.

some kannadigas (historically the most important one being purandara dasa who codified basic instruction in carnatic music besides his role as an important composer). with exceptions the malayalis have largely been patrons of the music.

carnatic performances have always been held in northindia. this is not a new phenom, but it has always been to entertain southern indians living and working in places like delhi, jamshedpur, and allahabad. and the carnatic music classes in north india are also for the benefit for southern indians living outside south india. to date i have not encountered a single northindian with a shred of interest in carnatic music. so no, all indians are not joint custodians of carnatic music despite your spurious claim.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
what about kannadigas and malayalis? are they not custodians of carnatic music as well? Moreover, these days Carnatic music classes and performances are being held all over North India. So all Indians are joint custodians of Carnatic music.

some kannadigas (historically the most important one being purandara dasa who codified basic instruction in carnatic music besides his role as an important composer). with exceptions the malayalis have largely been patrons of the music.

carnatic performances have always been held in northindia. this is not a new phenom, but it has always been to entertain southern indians living and working in places like delhi, jamshedpur, and allahabad. and the carnatic music classes in north india are also for the benefit for southern indians living outside south india. to date i have not encountered a single northindian with a shred of interest in carnatic music. so no, all indians are not joint custodians of carnatic music despite your spurious claim.

you are currently communicating with a north indian who has some interest in carnatic music.

---
Towards a composite Indian culture
started by Rashmun 3 yrs ago

went to a carnatic classical music function. all the songs were sung in tamil in carnatic style with the typical beats and rhythms that characterize carnatic music. all the songs were in tamil. but the very last song was a hindi song--a bhajan--sung in carnatic style with the same carnatic music (besides the vocalist, there were three musicians--one on violin, one on mridangam, and one on another instrument whose name i do not know). Prior to this hindi song there was a tamil song sung in carnatic style which was a bhajan about Lord Krishna. It had the words Vrindavan, Krishna, Gokul, Madhav, Radha, etc. but this beautiful tamil song also had some lines in hindi embedded in the tamil lyrics. they went like this:

Vrindavan mein gaaye Krishna
Radha Vallabh Rukmani Krishna

earlier i had attended a carnatic vocal program where the songs were in tamil and telugu. but it was a revealation that u could sing a hindi song in carnatic classical style and also that u could have a tamil song sung in carnatic style with hindi lyrics embedded within the song.

you attended a carnatic music concert, but did not try to find out about the main musical aspects of the performance. instead you chose to focus on the language in which the compositions were rendered. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because of lack of exposure to the music. carnatic music is primarily about music -- the melodic and the rhythmic aspects, the structure of constant and extemporaneous innovation in melodic and rhythmic patterns and the give and take between the melodic and percussion artistes. to focus on the libretto is superficially trivial. it's like attending a shakespearean play and noticing only the minor characters who provide comic relief.

to give you a sense for it, i'll narrate one incident. tiger vardachariar a vocalist of yore used to hold forte in his house for the benefit of admirers and students. he used to pick a raga and demonstrate neraval swarams to trite lines. once a vegetable vendor went by his house hawking aubergines (kathirikkai), calling out kathirikkai vangaliyo, kathirikkai. so he picked up that line and sang a wonderful neraval swarams around it. it was a wonderful performance but people burst out laughing. the libretto is very much a tertiary or at best of secondary interest.

hindi pieces like meera bhajans are not part of the traditional carnatic repertoire but were introduced by people like ariyakkudi ramanuja iyengar mid twentieth century and were further made popular by people like MSS. they are called thukkadas, meaning minor pieces and are not to be confused with the central majestic long krithis by dikshitar or thyagaraja or say a ragam thanam pallavi. they're sung more as crowd pleasers than anything else. connoisseurs don't pay much attention to them. if you don't believe me you can ask other CM aficionados.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:connoisseurs don't pay much attention to them. if you don't believe me you can ask other CM aficionados.

Random scraps of internet articles coming up momentarily... please wait while googling is in progress. These articles will contain a one or two sentences that might at a stretch be interpreted as supporting Rashmun's claim for custody over Carnatic music.

here are a set of articles in four parts titled, "a gentle introduction to carnatic music" by ramesh mahadevan. rashmun will find part IV particularly interesting.

A TYPICAL KARNATIC MUSIC CONCERT




One of the dangers on writing about a 'typical' music concert is that
these days there is no clear definition of what is 'typical'. Only
a few years ago, instrument solos were rare in the Karnatic music
tradition. Now, they are all over the place. These days several Karnatic
musicians follow the Hindustani format as well and just sing a Ragam,
Tanam, Pallavi and a few additional pieces. There are of course, numerous
other changes that always keep happening - some trend-setting, some
others just passing fads. Let us however look at a garden variety
Karnatic concert.
A typical concert lasts around three hours. And most concerts do not
have a 'program' given out ahead of time. By and large, the audience
does not know what song is going to be performed next, even though
these days most musicians have become reasonably Westernized and 'announce'
their next song and what Ragam and Talam they are set in and who composed
the song.

The musician would start the concert with a fast paced Varnam. This
not only serves as a warm up piece for the ensemble to synchronize,
it also sets the mood for the concert. And of course, it allows the
latecomers in the audience the time to find their seats and sit down
before the heavy-duty songs are sung. Usually, the singers will also
resort to some gimmicks in the Varnam itself - such as playing the
Varnam in several speeds or adding their own Kalpana Swaram passages.

This will then be followed by a song about Vinayaka in the Ragam Hamsadhwani
or Nattai. Given there are only so many songs in Hamsadhwani and Nattai
about Vinayaka, you can almost predict what is coming. Then the singer
performs a variety of songs - choosing them appropriately so that
he has the right mix and order of Ragams, tempo and audience appeal.
He would choose to express his creativity whereever by performing
Alapanai or Neraval or Kalpana Swaram at the appropriate parts of
the songs. Then eventually he will perform the Ragam, Tanam, Pallavi.

After the RTP, the concert winds down and tends to get 'light', where
the musician plays several short, light numbers. Instrumentalists
sometimes tune their instruments to a higher pitch, (That is, intentionally
shift their basic octave higher) to give the concert an artificially
bright mood (and also to wake up the sleeping members of the audience)
These light pieces are usually called 'Tukkadas' (literally meaning
'pieces') They could be popular, recent numbers or 'trademark' songs
of a particular performer or even movie songs. Many Tukkadas are set
in light Ragams or rare ragams and some in Hindustani Ragams. They
could be a Bhajan song, a folk song, song in an obscure language,
a Tillana (which is basically a dance song, often set in high tempo,
with a lot of dance steps set to syllables such as 'teem', 'takka
timi', 'thaa thai' etc), or a Javali (a short, 'quick' composition)
Toward the end of the concert, members of the audience usually request
their choices - often honored by the musicians. Finally, the concert
is officially ended by singing a brief number called 'Mangalam', usually
in the Ragam Madhyamavati, but sometimes even in Ragams like Surati.

more on the place of thukkadas in carnatic music (http://rasikas.org/forum_flux/topic8170-why-abhangs-p3.html)

note to rashmun: i didn't write all these posts.

there is a particularly crabby poster with the name harimau whose post in this thread is hilarious. he is just like me.
haha.

But why is it that the audience laps it up? Simply because they want
to feel superior to mere clods like mridhangam (and me and a few other
purists) who frown upon this sullying of Carnatic music. They cannot
talk intelligently about Kambodhi or Yadukulakambodhi so they want to
talk about Bhatiar or some such weird Hindusthani raga that they have
heard in an abhang.
You then have to look at what this foretells
for the future. After abhangs (taken up by quite a few musicians),
newly minted musicians such as the Prashanths and the Prasannas will
have to look for their own USPs. I would like to suggest an Azheri folk
song to them, except that this particular one is in Lathangi! So, off
they go in search of Arabic maqams, Celtic folk songs, Icelandic whaling
songs, etc.
I hope to die before that day arrives!

what you say also applies to Hindustani music. I have been told by connoisseurs of Hindustani music that the really great Hindustani music is Khayaal music--in which words are unimportant-- and that thumri and its variations like Dadra and Kajri should be considered semi-classical. But i continue to prefer the semi-classical music in which words are also important. I also like sufi qawaalis for the same reason. I was then told by the connoisseurs that preference for a kind of music also depends on one's personal choice and inclination.

Perhaps in the future i will begin to appreciate Khayaal music and also the musical aspects of Carnatic classical. For now, i continue to enjoy thumri and its variations, and also sufi qawaalis.

This does not mean that i never listen to Khayaal or to Carnatic classical. But my preference is for thumri and its variations and also sufi qawaalis.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:you attended a carnatic music concert, but did not try to find out about the main musical aspects of the performance. instead you chose to focus on the language in which the compositions were rendered. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it's because of lack of exposure to the music. carnatic music is primarily about music -- the melodic and the rhythmic aspects, the structure of constant and extemporaneous innovation in melodic and rhythmic patterns and the give and take between the melodic and percussion artistes. to focus on the libretto is superficially trivial. it's like attending a shakespearean play and noticing only the minor characters who provide comic relief.

to give you a sense for it, i'll narrate one incident. tiger vardachariar a vocalist of yore used to hold forte in his house for the benefit of admirers and students. he used to pick a raga and demonstrate neraval swarams to trite lines. once a vegetable vendor went by his house hawking aubergines (kathirikkai), calling out kathirikkai vangaliyo, kathirikkai. so he picked up that line and sang a wonderful neraval swarams around it. it was a wonderful performance but people burst out laughing. the libretto is very much a tertiary or at best of secondary interest.

hindi pieces like meera bhajans are not part of the traditional carnatic repertoire but were introduced by people like ariyakkudi ramanuja iyengar mid twentieth century and were further made popular by people like MSS. they are called thukkadas, meaning minor pieces and are not to be confused with the central majestic long krithis by dikshitar or thyagaraja or say a ragam thanam pallavi. they're sung more as crowd pleasers than anything else. connoisseurs don't pay much attention to them. if you don't believe me you can ask other CM aficionados.

Rashmun wrote:

Perhaps in the future i will begin to appreciate Khayaal music and also the musical aspects of Carnatic classical. For now, i continue to enjoy thumri and its variations, and also sufi qawaalis.

This does not mean that i never listen to Khayaal or to Carnatic classical. But my preference is for thumri and its variations and also sufi qawaalis.

as someone on rasikas.org wrote, we live only once and life is short. it's better to jump into the deepest end of the pool and get the deepest that an art form has to offer.

IMO dhrupad>khayal>>>> thumris, dadras, bhajans and other light music.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Perhaps in the future i will begin to appreciate Khayaal music and also the musical aspects of Carnatic classical. For now, i continue to enjoy thumri and its variations, and also sufi qawaalis.

This does not mean that i never listen to Khayaal or to Carnatic classical. But my preference is for thumri and its variations and also sufi qawaalis.

as someone on rasikas.org wrote, we live only once and life is short. it's better to jump into the deepest end of the pool and get the deepest that an art form has to offer.

IMO dhrupad>khayal>>>> thumris, dadras, bhajans and other light music.

Now here is where the connoisseurs of Hindustani classical that i spoke to disagree with you. In their opinion, Khayaal > Dhrupad.

Rashmun wrote:

Now here is where the connoisseurs of Hindustani classical that i spoke to disagree with you. In their opinion, Khayaal > Dhrupad.

that's quite alright. most people i know who listen to hindustani music also have the same opinion as your friends. dhrupad is difficult to appreciate because of its minimalist approach to music. it is very very stark and austere. but that just heightens its beauty for me. it's like appreciating both bryce canyon national park and yellowstone but preferring the former.

Being a Hyderabadi, one for sure encounters many instances, where the Dakhni dialect is not just used for a normal conversation. It has been a tradition among the Hyderabadis, to use the Dakhni dialect in the shayari form, known as the Dakhni Shayari. Branded Hyderabadi words like ‘Nakko’, ‘Kaiku’, form the base of this shayari. Apart from sharing a laugh, many great scholars of Urdu, have used this form to touch upon issues affecting the society and try and bring about a change in the thought-process of people.
But, the past few decades have brought in a drastic change in the writing style and presentation of Dakhini Shayari.

The present day Dakhini shayari revolves only around a funny, humorous but offensive way of presenting the loopholes of household matters in a shayari form. For example, the very popular “Nai bole toh sunti nai” (She won’t listen, till I tell her) series.

Intentionally used to refer to their wives, the shayars (reciters) give into the shayari to describe their marital livelihood and woes.
Lately, the scholars in the city have been discouraging this form of shayari as the shayari has taken a different avatar altogether, and the youngsters these days laugh at it, or are unaware of its existence, or are very disrespectful about it.

“Dakhini sounds like some yummy dish or dessert, I never heard about it. Is it tasty?” says Satish Kumar, a student. Don’t be too surprised at the response.
According to Dr.Naseemudin Farees, head and associate professor, Department of Urdu, Maulana Azad National Urdu University, “Dakhini Shayari is an interesting form of shayari. As an individual I believe that it is an integral part of our Hyderabadi culture, literature and heritage. Famous shayars like Mohd.Quli Qutub Shah IV conveyed their messages through Dakhini shayari.”

He then adds, “They wrote about the social issues, rituals and customs. So that the housewives back then, who were only confined to home, get to read these shayaris and sing while doing their daily house chores. But, today this has turned out to be a mere pathetic humour art form, which is entertaining but offensive too. We do not encourage this anymore.”

Agreeing with him was Mohammad Ali Asar, an Urdu professor from Osmania University. He opines, “Dakhini was once upon a time a respectful and meaningful art form, but with the changes made by the modern shayars, it has become a matter of pointing out the mistakes and making fun of wives and in-laws. This form of shayari has lost its essence.”
Explaining his view, Deepak Jain, a BBM student, says “I think Dakhini shayari recited today is only about entertainment. Considering the development rate, there is a high possibility of Dakhini Shayari becoming extinct.”

However, the University of Hyderabad (UoH) has a new plan. They are planning on introducing Dakhni as a full-fledged course. Explaining more on this, Dr Hakeem Raees Fatima, faculty member, Department of Urdu, UoH says, “We are introducing teaching and learning of Dakhini language as an academic course now. This is going to be a useful step in bringing back the actual essence of the existence of the language again.”

http://expressbuzz.com/search/it’s-all-in-the-shayari/386505.html

The following poem celebrating Hyderabad is in Dakhini (or to be more precise, Hyderabadi Dakhini since there are dialects of the Dakhini language). Notice the close relationship between Hyderabadi Dakhini and Hindustani: They are in fact, leaving aside minor differences, the same language.
-----

Hyderabadi Poem

Yaad Karo apne Hyderabad ko..........7 samundar par se
yaad karo woh din aur raat.........

Woh Allahamdullilah ki biryani, woh diamond ki chai,
Woh radhey shyaam ki pani puri, woh chit chat ki chaat,
Woh Softy ki ice cream, Wah usme thi kuch baat.

Woh pulla reddy ki mithai, woh kamat ka dosa,
Woh Gokul ki pav bhaji aur Ramser ka samosa.

Woh local bus ka 'suffer', woh tank bund ki hawa,
Woh dutch roses ke kante aur lumbini park ka sama.

Woh december ki zara si sardi, woh baarishon ke mahiney,
Woh garmi ki holidays, jab nikal te they paseeney.

Woh ramzan ki Haleem,woh paradise ki biryani,
Woh holi ki masti,aur navratri ka dandia.

Woh necklace road ka mahol, woh Gandipet ki leheren,
Woh doobte suraj ka nazara, Wah uske kya kehene.

Woh Karachi Bakery ke biscuit, woh blue sea ki chai,
Woh Garden Restaurant ke lukmi biscuit, woh galliyon ki "rabdi malai".

Woh Nayaab ki garam Nahari, Woh Shadab ki tez Tahari
Woh Pathergatti ki Savari, Humein hoti thi pyari

Woh bachpan key yaaden, woh gotion kaa khel,
Woh Indira paark ke jhaadiyan, jahaa hothey they mel.

Woh Minerva ka pop corn aur Stop n Shop mein shopping,
Woh James Street ka nazara aur Ameer pet ki building.

Woh Sangeet cinema ke queue, woh black ki pink ticket,
Woh Parade ka maidan, jahan bachche practice karte hain cricket.

Woh Golconda ki sidiyan aur 7 gumbas ke pyare nazarein
Woh Lad Bazar ki Chudiyan, aur Woh Charminar ki ronakhein

Woh Numaish Ground ke jhoole, aur woh maut ka kuwan
Woh gharwalon ki shopping woh bachhon ke khilonein
Jahan hote they sab yaaron ke jeb dhilein

Itni cheezen kehene ke baad, aur kitna karoon mein abaad,
Yeh shehar hain mera apna, jiska naam hai H Y D E R A B A A D!!!!!!!!
Mera Hyderabad, Tera Hyderabad, Hum Sub ka Hyderabad
Hyderabad, Hyderabad, Pyara Hyderabad



http://www.hyderabadplanet.com/hyderabad-life.html

Rashmun wrote:

Bhaskar Ghose writes:

True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south. There certainly are no such events in eastern India. But generally, poetry has gone into the closet, as it has, perhaps, the world over

http://www.flonnet.com/fl2603/stories/20090213260308800.htm

No such poetry events take place in South India, to the best of my knowledge, except to some extent in Andhra Pradesh. Dakhini poetry (i.e. Hyderabadi Dakhini poetry) events do take place as the youtube video shows.

In India, this appreciation of poetry to the extent that poets recite their works to appreciative audiences seems to be for the most part confined to North India. It is an integral part of North Indian culture.

Hyderabadi Urdu (Urdu: حیدرآبادی اردو) is a dialect of Urdu spoken in the Indian region of Hyderabad State (now Telengana, parts of Karnataka and Maharashtra) and its diaspora.[1] It is also known as Deccani Urdu from its former name Hyderabad Deccan. It contain loan words from Arabic, Turkish, Indo-Aryan languages (such as Persian, Urdu, Hindi, and Marathi), and Dravidian languages such as Telugu.[2]........

In Hyderabad Deccan's historic past, Mughals had great influence on the region attributing to the mix and introduction of more words from Middle eastern Languages. Marathi had a good influence after Urdu, Arabic, Persian and Turkish.
Linguistically, it is notable for its mixing of the Indo-Aryan languages of the North (Hindustani) with the Dravidian languages of the South (Telugu and Marathi). This dialect can be understood very easily by most Hindi or Urdu - speakers, but it is difficult for non-native speakers to use it themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabadi_Urdu

Many words of Hyderabadi Dakhini seem to be variations of certain words used in hindi/hindustani. The wikipedia page on Hyderabadi urdu says:

Linguistically, it is notable for its mixing of the Indo-Aryan languages of the North (Hindustani) with the Dravidian languages of the South (Telugu and Marathi). This dialect can be understood very easily by most Hindi or Urdu - speakers, but it is difficult for non-native speakers to use it themselves.
Some differences are:
Kaiku= why instead of kyon in traditional Urdu
Kaiku ki= why the hell
Mereku= me instead of mujhey in traditional Urdu
Tereku= you instead of tujhey in traditional Urdu
Nakko= an alternate (and informal) negative generally indicating "no thanks" or "do not". Can be (and is often) used in place of mat. Naheen, naa and mat (from traditional Urdu) are still used where nakko is inappropriate for the context or in polite situations.
Hau - for yes, instead of "Haan".
Ghafla - absent minded person. It is based on Arabic word 'Ghafil', meaning unawares or absent minded.
Haula - crazy person (kaisa haula hai re tu)
Potti (slang; rather offensive) - girl
Potta (slang; rather offensive) - Boy
Miyan - Man (i.e. "Chalao miya." means "Let's go, man.")
Ghaeithla - moron ( i.e. "Kya ghaithla hai mia") => "( What a moron")
Chambu - mug; equivalent of 'ghaeithla'; also often used to express Exhaustion ( i.e. "Haalat chambu hogayee")=> "( Am Damn Tired")
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")
Phekoo - Liar ( i.e " Kya Phekar hai yaro" ) => "( What a liar!")
Dhuss- To collide/ Collision (i.e "Scooter wala uske paaon pay dhuss maar diya") => "(The scooter rider collided with his leg")
Marra- Being desperate (i.e "Aisa Marrain kaiku yaro?") => "(Why are you being so desperate?")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabadi_Urdu

Rashmun wrote:Many words of Hyderabadi Dakhini seem to be variations of certain words used in hindi/hindustani. The wikipedia page on Hyderabadi urdu says:

Linguistically, it is notable for its mixing of the Indo-Aryan languages of the North (Hindustani) with the Dravidian languages of the South (Telugu and Marathi). This dialect can be understood very easily by most Hindi or Urdu - speakers, but it is difficult for non-native speakers to use it themselves.
Some differences are:
Kaiku= why instead of kyon in traditional Urdu
Kaiku ki= why the hell
Mereku= me instead of mujhey in traditional Urdu
Tereku= you instead of tujhey in traditional Urdu
Nakko= an alternate (and informal) negative generally indicating "no thanks" or "do not". Can be (and is often) used in place of mat. Naheen, naa and mat (from traditional Urdu) are still used where nakko is inappropriate for the context or in polite situations.
Hau - for yes, instead of "Haan".
Ghafla - absent minded person. It is based on Arabic word 'Ghafil', meaning unawares or absent minded.
Haula - crazy person (kaisa haula hai re tu)
Potti (slang; rather offensive) - girl
Potta (slang; rather offensive) - Boy
Miyan - Man (i.e. "Chalao miya." means "Let's go, man.")
Ghaeithla - moron ( i.e. "Kya ghaithla hai mia") => "( What a moron")
Chambu - mug; equivalent of 'ghaeithla'; also often used to express Exhaustion ( i.e. "Haalat chambu hogayee")=> "( Am Damn Tired")
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")
Phekoo - Liar ( i.e " Kya Phekar hai yaro" ) => "( What a liar!")
Dhuss- To collide/ Collision (i.e "Scooter wala uske paaon pay dhuss maar diya") => "(The scooter rider collided with his leg")
Marra- Being desperate (i.e "Aisa Marrain kaiku yaro?") => "(Why are you being so desperate?")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabadi_Urdu

A better comparison of some of these Dakhini Hyderabadi words with Hindi/Hindustani is:


Kaiku (Hyderabadi Dakhini ) is a variation of Kaahe Ko (colloquial Hindi) meaning 'why so'. Compare this with the word kyon which would be the closest equivalent word used in both literary hindi and urdu
Mereku and Tereku (Hyderabadi Dakhini) are variations of Mere ko and Tere Ko (colloquial Hindi) which are equivalent to mujhe and tujhe in literary hindi and urdu. The closest equivalent english words would be me (for mujhe), and you (for tujhe).
Hau (Hyderabadi) is a variation of the hindi word Haan (pronounced 'Haa') meaning yes.
Phekoo (meaning someone who lies) is a word used not just in Hyderabadi Dakhini but also in colloquial hindi.

There are a few words which sound different. For instance, Nakko (Hyderabadi) meaning 'No' with the equivalent hindi word being 'Nahin' (pronounced Nahee)

Rashmun wrote:
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")

hauley hauley in hindi?

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")

hauley hauley in hindi?

perhaps. not sure whether hauley hauley is colloquial hindi or punjabi or both. i haven't heard people using the word 'hauley' or 'hauley hauley' in ordinary hindi conversation but then i am not familiar with all the hindi dialects.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")

hauley hauley in hindi?

Haha... that means something entirely different in Hyderabadi. See the definitive source for more information: http://samosapedia.com/e/howle

Rashmun wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")

hauley hauley in hindi?

perhaps. not sure whether hauley hauley is colloquial hindi or punjabi or both. i haven't heard people using the word 'hauley' or 'hauley hauley' in ordinary hindi conversation but then i am not familiar with all the hindi dialects.

The meaning of hauley hauley is the same as the meaning of halloo halloo i.e. slowly. The words 'Hauley Hauley' are frequently used in this hindi song:

rashmun i have seen hauley hauley used frequently in braj bhasha.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:rashmun i have seen hauley hauley used frequently in braj bhasha.

then it is a hindi word.

Rashmun wrote:Many words of Hyderabadi Dakhini seem to be variations of certain words used in hindi/hindustani. The wikipedia page on Hyderabadi urdu says:

Linguistically, it is notable for its mixing of the Indo-Aryan languages of the North (Hindustani) with the Dravidian languages of the South (Telugu and Marathi). This dialect can be understood very easily by most Hindi or Urdu - speakers, but it is difficult for non-native speakers to use it themselves.
Some differences are:
Kaiku= why instead of kyon in traditional Urdu
Kaiku ki= why the hell
Mereku= me instead of mujhey in traditional Urdu
Tereku= you instead of tujhey in traditional Urdu
Nakko= an alternate (and informal) negative generally indicating "no thanks" or "do not". Can be (and is often) used in place of mat. Naheen, naa and mat (from traditional Urdu) are still used where nakko is inappropriate for the context or in polite situations.
Hau - for yes, instead of "Haan".
Ghafla - absent minded person. It is based on Arabic word 'Ghafil', meaning unawares or absent minded.
Haula - crazy person (kaisa haula hai re tu)
Potti (slang; rather offensive) - girl
Potta (slang; rather offensive) - Boy
Miyan - Man (i.e. "Chalao miya." means "Let's go, man.")
Ghaeithla - moron ( i.e. "Kya ghaithla hai mia") => "( What a moron")
Chambu - mug; equivalent of 'ghaeithla'; also often used to express Exhaustion ( i.e. "Haalat chambu hogayee")=> "( Am Damn Tired")
Halloo halloo- Derived from Marathi word 'Halu' which means Slow (i.e. "Zara Hallu chalo bawa") => "( will you walk a bit slow?")
Phekoo - Liar ( i.e " Kya Phekar hai yaro" ) => "( What a liar!")
Dhuss- To collide/ Collision (i.e "Scooter wala uske paaon pay dhuss maar diya") => "(The scooter rider collided with his leg")
Marra- Being desperate (i.e "Aisa Marrain kaiku yaro?") => "(Why are you being so desperate?")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyderabadi_Urdu

the equivalent hindi words for Potti and Potta would be Laundi and Launda. Ghafla is a colloquial hindi word as well but its meaning seems to be different: in hindi it means scam. I wonder whether Ghaeithla has an equivalent word in colloquial hindi. There is a hindi word called 'Gaath' meaning 'knot'.

Two days in Gulbarga
Monday, 9 January 2012

It is a
coincidence that sometimes coincidences occur in a peculiar way. Two
most popular artists of humorous and satirical Dakhini Urdu poetry
namely Suleman Khateeb and Gilli Nalgondavi are remembered quite often
but both of them were remembered last week in two different cities with
great pomp and pride. Gilli Nalgondavi was remembered on 23rd December
in Hyderabad and a day after on 24th December, Suleman Khateeb was
remembered in Gulbarga.

It is also a coincidence that 32-33 years lapsed after their
departure from us. Suleman Khateeb died in 1978 and Gilli Nalgondavi
passed away in 1979 from this mortal world.

As you know in the early days, Aejaz Hussain Khatta, Nazeer Dahqani,
Sarwar Danda, Alli Sayeb Miyan added valuable literature in the humorous
and satirical Dakhini poetry but after the cessation of erstwhile
Hyderabad state, Suleman Khateeb and Gilli Nalgondavi took humorous and
satirical Dakhini poetry to the zenith. My personal opinion is that from
among the poets who gave a new style to laugh at one’s own self and to
adapt with the changing social and political situations, the efforts of
Suleman Khateeb and Gilli Nalgondavi and very significant. To tell the
truth laughingly was the mark of distinction of the art of both of them.
It is very pathetic that Gilli Nalgondavi got only 42 years of age. He
emerged like a wind storm on the horizon of Dakhini poetry and
disappeared before our eyes like a crane. The circumstances in which he
died are very tragic. Many of his admirers had committed to their memory
his poems but for the entire period of 32 years, his poetic writings
were not available and there was an apprehension that his poetic
writings would be forgotten in the deep ocean of time. God bless the
functionaries of the Anjuman-e-Taraqui-e-Urdu, Nalgonda and Ahmed
Faseehuddin, Fakir Nalgondavai, Mohammed Abdur Rasheed and Shahabuddin
Hashimi that after a great deal of endeavor, they not only collected his
scattered writings from various sources but also found a way out for
its publication. The poetic collection of Gilli Nalgondavi “Taad ban”
(Jungle of toddy) was released by Editor of Siasat Zahid Ali Khan on
22nd December in Hyderabad. On publication of a brief news item in
Siasat, admirers of Gilli Nalgondavi flocked together in large numbers.
It is the testimony that his admirers still have his memory and his
writings in their hearts. However, complete thirty two years after his
death, his poetic collection “Taad ban” has been published. Gilli
Nalgondavis death occurred in very destitute circumstances. There had
been some difficulty in getting his dead body from the mortuary of
Osmania General Hospital. Who would have thought that thirty two years
of his death his poetic collection “Taad ban” would be published and the
book releasing ceremony would be organized on such pomp and pride? It
is also a coincidence that there is a great deal of resemblance in the
names of poetic collections of both there poets. The name of the poetic
collection of Gilli Nalgondavi is “Taad ban” and that of Suleman Khateeb
is “Keoday ka ban” (Jungle of a fragrant plants) it is also a
coincidence that both these names represent the peculiar lifestyles of
these poets.

A day after the book releasing ceremony of “Taad ban” I got an
opportunity of participating in the ceremony organized in Gulbarga to
commemorate Suleman Khateeb. I thought that both these functions are
like good omen for Dakhini humorous poetry. Celebrating the
commemorative function of another great poet of Dakhini Humorous poets
after a gap of one day is nothing but a good omen. It is a different
thing that my commemoration of Suleman Khateeb has an intense
association. I didn’t meet Gilli Nalgondavi personally any time but I
have witnessed Gilli Nalgondavi gathering applause from the public from
both the hands. In addition to the merits of his poetry people used to
applaud his peculiar style of reciting the poems amidst the echoes of
laughters.

I had seen Suleman Khateeb for the first time when I was a student of
Asif Gunj Middle School. It may be an event of sixty four years back.
Suleman Khateeb was incharge of water works departments. A team of
students of our class was taken to filter beds of water works department
on an excursion tour. I had seen Suleman Khateeb for the first time. I
hadn’t even dreamt that I would establish deep personal contacts with
Suleman Khateeb in my life later. Six or seven years later in 1953 when I
was a student of Intermediate college of Gulbarga, the students’ union
of the college decided to stage the drama “Yeh Amrath Hai” I had to
perform the role of a labourer in that drama. The director of that drama
was Suleman Khateeb. The way he used to give us direction and the
manner in which he used to make us aware of the subtle points, I still
remember even after the passage of such a long period. Till that time,
Suleman Khateeb had not started composing his poetry. He was from among
the friends of my elder brothers Ibrahim Jalees and Mahboob Hussain
Jigar. Out of this association, I had a great respect for him in my
heart. He also used to love me. It was the beneficence of his direction
that I got a prize for the acting in the drama. Nature had bestowed him
with such a sonorous voice that whenever he used to give direction for
delivering a dialogue in his peculiar style, he used to create a
delectable atmosphere. However, ten years after this drama, I did not
continue as an actor and he as director. Both of us entered into the
fields of poetry and literature. In the beginning of the sixtees, he
became the poet of homour of Dakhini Urdu and I became a prose writer in
homour and satire in Urdu. As you know the birth place of both of us
has been Gulbarga, from this association also, I had a great devotion
for Suleman Khateeb in my heart. We had the opportunity of participating
together in the literary sessions held in Hyderabad, Delhi, Patna,
Bhopal, Gulbarga and Mumbai. He was a very innocent and simple person
full of love. Whenever we used to get boundless applause, he used to
feel very happly and he used to attribute this success to our
association with Gulbarga. It is very regrettable that Suleman Khateeb
passed away in 1978. I met him from the last time in 1977 in Patna. He
looked very weak to me at that time. I had the presentiment of the
coming evil when I told him to avoid participation in the gathering of
poets held at far off places. In 1975 a grand function “Jashn-e- Suleman
Khateeb” (Festival of Suleman Khateeb) was organized under the
patronage of former Minister of Govt. of Karnataka Mr. Mohammed Ali. In
1977, he retired on attaining superannuation and he was awarded a
pension. Since then, his health started deteriorating. About many poets
and writers I hold an opinion that their semantic progeny (writings) is
of high standard but their own sons and daughters are unmannered. They
don’t know the value of poetic and literary grandeur of theirs parents.
Suleman Khateeb was fortunate in this respect in the sense that after
his death, to commemorate him, they have established a trust. As a
result, “Suleman Khateeb Memorial Trust for Education and Culture”
organizes a function in Gulbarga every year in which a student who gets
the first rank in Urdu in the High School public examination of
Karnataka State is awarded Suleman Khateeb Gold medal and the students
who secure second and third ranks are given special prizes. By the grace
of God, all his children namely, Shaheen Khateeb, Tahseen Khateeb,
Mateen Khateeb, Yameen Khateeb, Tamkeen Khateen, Shameem Surayya, former
principal of Bibi Raza Degree college, Gulbarga and Taqadus Surayya are
very promising. All of them are leading a happy life in New Jersey
(USA). Not only this, they come to India by turn and supervise the
arrangements of the commemorative celebrations. I have attended three of
such functions. One months ago, Suleman Khateeb’s daughter Dr. Shameem
Surayya telephoned me from America and bound me to participate in the
Annual celebrations this time without fail. Dr. Shameem Surrayya is the
Secretary of Suleman Khateeb Trust. She is also a very good writer of
Urdu. Sometimes afterwards, she came to India along with her brothers
Yameen Khateeb and Tamkeen Khateeb for organizing these annual
celebrations. These days, there has been some pain in walking and for
this reason I avoid participating as far as possible in the functions
held outside Hyderabad. It was the matter of Suleman Khateeb, I ventured
to travel to Gulbarga with the help of my friend Mohammed Taqui.

This time the commemorative celebrations of Suleman Khateeb were held
on a grand scale. In my opinion, there is no precedent of such a grand
function in Gulbarga in the past. No doubt the celebrations of Suleman
Khateeb and Wahab Andaleeb were also very memorable. But in this
function, there was an arrangement of modern facilities and resources
specially. These celebrations were held at the newly constructed grand
auditorium of Gulbarga called S.M. Pandit Rang Mandi at Mahboob Gulshan.
This new auditorium of Gulbarga is well equipped with the modern
facilities. There are more than 1,500 audience present in the
auditorium. Before the commencement of the function, a video film of
Suleman Khateeb was shown on the large screen. The well-mannered
children of Suleman Khateeb have continued the activities of Suleman
Khateeb Trust in an organized way. There is a website of Suleman Khateeb
wherein his life sketch and poetry collections and the opinions of the
luminaries of Urdu literature and highlighted. So far, many editions of
his poetry collection, “Keoday Ka Ban” have been published. I pray that
god may bestow such blessings to all the poets and writers of Urdu and
provide guidance to their progeny to keep themselves abreast of the
literary heritage of their parents. In the mammoth gathering of this
function. I made a public announcement that if my sons and daughters
also promise to organize any such memorable thing, I am prepared to die
at this moment. The functionaries of Suleman Khateeb Trust decalred that
while continuing the awards for the students, they would also “Suleman
Khateeb Awards” to any prominent writer and artist also. This year
myself and editor of Shugoofa, Dr. Syed Mustafa Kamal were given this
award. It was a memorable function of Gulbarga the memory of which will
be ever fresh in the minds of the audience.
http://www.siasat.com/english/news/two-days-gulbarga

i was talking to a friend of mine who has been residing in bangalore for several decades. he said that a large portion of present day Bangalore was part of Madras state and even today is inhabited by many tamilians. Some of these tamilans know kannada, but many--particularly the older generation-- don't. Besides tamil, almost all of these tamilians living in bangalore know the language known as Dakhini hindi.

Rashmun wrote:i was talking to a friend of mine who has been residing in bangalore for several decades. he said that a large portion of present day Bangalore was part of Madras state and even today is inhabited by many tamilians. Some of these tamilans know kannada, but many--particularly the older generation-- don't. Besides tamil, almost all of these tamilians living in bangalore know the language known as Dakhini hindi.

notice that my friend used the term 'Dakhini hindi' and not the usual 'Dakhini urdu' by which the language is referred to. Why was this so? (My friend happens to be highly educated.). The answer is that hindi and urdu are variants of the same language. For more details, see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi-Urdu

Max
Best reply in recent days.

Rashmun wrote:i was talking to a friend of mine who has been residing in bangalore for several decades. he said that a large portion of present day Bangalore was part of Madras state and even today is inhabited by many tamilians. Some of these tamilans know kannada, but many--particularly the older generation-- don't. Besides tamil, almost all of these tamilians living in bangalore know the language known as Dakhini hindi.

this is true. my son is studying in bangalore and he says most locals understand a smattering of hindi and many are even able to converse in broken hindi.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:i was talking to a friend of mine who has been residing in bangalore for several decades. he said that a large portion of present day Bangalore was part of Madras state and even today is inhabited by many tamilians. Some of these tamilans know kannada, but many--particularly the older generation-- don't. Besides tamil, almost all of these tamilians living in bangalore know the language known as Dakhini hindi.

this is true. my son is studying in bangalore and he says most locals understand a smattering of hindi and many are even able to converse in broken hindi.

Often the hindi the locals speak is distinct from the hindi spoken in north india.

-----
Visitors from north India’s Hindi belt are often puzzled by the contradictory signals they get about Hindi in south India. On the one hand, they feel that every one understands them in the street--rikshawalas, shopkeepers, bus conductors and so on. Some of these visitors, like the Ugly American, patronizingly approve that the natives are speaking a tolerably understandable Hindi!

On the other hand, they find strong anti-Hindi feelings among the middle-class educated people. They conclude that actually Hindi is understood and ‘accepted’ by the common man in the south but it is being opposed by the ‘vested‘ interests who want to keep English alive for a better edge in the job market. So English, and for the leftists among them ‘imperialism’, is the enemy and they try the ‘Angrezi Hatao’ movement. Of course none of these ‘movements’ make a dent in the non-Hindi regions.

The problem with these people is that they think that Hindi is ‘their’ language, which is inherently so good that the rest of India has accepted it as the national language. They endlessly quote Rajgopalachari or Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay for this purpose. In fact they are again puzzled that these stalwarts of Hindi later denounced Hindi chauvinism.

They fail to understand that the ‘Hindi’ that they hear in the South is actually Dakhni and that it has a much older literary history and in fact was the source of inspiration for modern Hindi to emerge as a literary language. The ‘lingua franca’ of India is not ‘their’ Hindi but the street Hindi that evolved from Dakhni and reached the Indian masses, through the Parsi theatre and the Bombay film industry. It is ‘their’ highly Sanskritized Hindi that is opposed all over the non-Hindi region. In fact, Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay, in his article ‘Bharater Rashtra Bhasha Chalti Hindi’ even proposed Bombay Hindi as a national language whose ‘grammar can be written on a post card’!

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

Rashmun wrote:

an author of an article wrote:
They fail to understand that the ‘Hindi’ that they hear in the South is actually Dakhni and that it has a much older literary history and in fact was the source of inspiration for modern Hindi to emerge as a literary language. The ‘lingua franca’ of India is not ‘their’ Hindi but the street Hindi that evolved from Dakhni and reached the Indian masses, through the Parsi theatre and the Bombay film industry. It is ‘their’ highly Sanskritized Hindi that is opposed all over the non-Hindi region. In fact, Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay, in his article ‘Bharater Rashtra Bhasha Chalti Hindi’ even proposed Bombay Hindi as a national language whose ‘grammar can be written on a post card’![/color]

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

interesting! in the last few months i watched a few hyderabad and AP based bollywood comedies in full dakhni. i could notice the overlap in dakhini and tapori but was left puzzled by it. i could not trace the connection and dismissed it as my wild imagination. the fact is that tapori HAS been significantly influenced by dakhini and this is reflected in the films too.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

an author of an article wrote:
They fail to understand that the ‘Hindi’ that they hear in the South is actually Dakhni and that it has a much older literary history and in fact was the source of inspiration for modern Hindi to emerge as a literary language. The ‘lingua franca’ of India is not ‘their’ Hindi but the street Hindi that evolved from Dakhni and reached the Indian masses, through the Parsi theatre and the Bombay film industry. It is ‘their’ highly Sanskritized Hindi that is opposed all over the non-Hindi region. In fact, Acharya Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay, in his article ‘Bharater Rashtra Bhasha Chalti Hindi’ even proposed Bombay Hindi as a national language whose ‘grammar can be written on a post card’![/color]

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

interesting! in the last few months i watched a few hyderabad and AP based bollywood comedies in full dakhni. i could notice the overlap in dakhini and tapori but was left puzzled by it. i could not trace the connection and dismissed it as my wild imagination. the fact is that tapori HAS been significantly influenced by dakhini and this is reflected in the films too.

i find it interesting that even the word 'Hindi' originates in South India:

A twentieth-century Kerala Hindi scholar, Dr. Muhammad Kunj Mettar, established Dakhni as source for modern Hindi. Dr. Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay also maintained that it was Deccan that established the use of Khari Boli replacing Braj in the North. In fact, even the name Hindi for the language originated in the South. A Tamilian, Kazi Mahamud Bahari in 17th century used the word Hindi for Dakhni in his Sufi poetry called Man Lagan.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

Another interesting extract from the article:

The true inheritor of Dakhni is the language of the common people, often called Hindustani, which the vast majority of the working people, particularly in urban India, understand. Its literary tradition continued in modern India through Parsi theatre, Hindi theatre in general, and the Bombay cinema and Hindi film lyrics. Some authors in Hindi still write in people’s language and the ‘chap’ literature (religious tracts like Kabir Ke Dohe) sold on the pavement and rural weekly markets and popular magazines still use this language. This language carries the common composite cultural tradition of India, a culture of love, assimilation and tolerance.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

Rashmun wrote:
i find it interesting that even the word 'Hindi' originates in South India:

A twentieth-century Kerala Hindi scholar, Dr. Muhammad Kunj Mettar, established Dakhni as source for modern Hindi. Dr. Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay also maintained that it was Deccan that established the use of Khari Boli replacing Braj in the North. In fact, even the name Hindi for the language originated in the South. A Tamilian, Kazi Mahamud Bahari in 17th century used the word Hindi for Dakhni in his Sufi poetry called Man Lagan.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

wow! that is indeed interesting. dakhini to hindi -- geographical area expanded while renaming it.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
i find it interesting that even the word 'Hindi' originates in South India:

A twentieth-century Kerala Hindi scholar, Dr. Muhammad Kunj Mettar, established Dakhni as source for modern Hindi. Dr. Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay also maintained that it was Deccan that established the use of Khari Boli replacing Braj in the North. In fact, even the name Hindi for the language originated in the South. A Tamilian, Kazi Mahamud Bahari in 17th century used the word Hindi for Dakhni in his Sufi poetry called Man Lagan.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

wow! that is indeed interesting. dakhini to hindi -- geographical area expanded while renaming it.

The wikipedia page on Dakhini* has some glaring inaccuracies. In particular, it wants the reader to believe that there is no connection between Hindustani and Dakhini. I know that you have a lot of experience writing and editing wikipedia pages and i would request you to clean up this article. You would be doing a great social service by doing so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakhini

Rashmun wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
i find it interesting that even the word 'Hindi' originates in South India:

A twentieth-century Kerala Hindi scholar, Dr. Muhammad Kunj Mettar, established Dakhni as source for modern Hindi. Dr. Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay also maintained that it was Deccan that established the use of Khari Boli replacing Braj in the North. In fact, even the name Hindi for the language originated in the South. A Tamilian, Kazi Mahamud Bahari in 17th century used the word Hindi for Dakhni in his Sufi poetry called Man Lagan.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

wow! that is indeed interesting. dakhini to hindi -- geographical area expanded while renaming it.

The wikipedia page on Dakhini* has some glaring inaccuracies. In particular, it wants the reader to believe that there is no connection between Hindustani and Dakhini. I know that you have a lot of experience writing and editing wikipedia pages and i would request you to clean up this article. You would be doing a great social service by doing so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakhini

sure, i'll do it. t. vijayendra has cited credible references in his article and his phone no. is also available. if necessary i can ask him for source (in case a wikipedian questions my edit).

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:
i find it interesting that even the word 'Hindi' originates in South India:

A twentieth-century Kerala Hindi scholar, Dr. Muhammad Kunj Mettar, established Dakhni as source for modern Hindi. Dr. Suniti Kumar Chattopadhyay also maintained that it was Deccan that established the use of Khari Boli replacing Braj in the North. In fact, even the name Hindi for the language originated in the South. A Tamilian, Kazi Mahamud Bahari in 17th century used the word Hindi for Dakhni in his Sufi poetry called Man Lagan.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

wow! that is indeed interesting. dakhini to hindi -- geographical area expanded while renaming it.

The wikipedia page on Dakhini* has some glaring inaccuracies. In particular, it wants the reader to believe that there is no connection between Hindustani and Dakhini. I know that you have a lot of experience writing and editing wikipedia pages and i would request you to clean up this article. You would be doing a great social service by doing so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakhini

sure, i'll do it. t. vijayendra has cited credible references in his article and his phone no. is also available. if necessary i can ask him for source (in case a wikipedian questions my edit).

Thanks Huzefa.

Oh, the contradictions that result from copy-pasting articles without bothering to understand their implications...

https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p100-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#45228
https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p350-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#63478

panini press wrote:Oh, the contradictions that result from copy-pasting articles without bothering to understand their implications...

https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p100-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#45228
https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p350-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#63478

The Hindustani language may have originally travelled to South India through the sufi mystics who travelled to South India and preached in the Hindustani language and helped popularized it. One of the most notable of such sufi mystics of north india who travelled to the south in order to spread their teachings was this gentleman:


“A Deccani, on being once asked whom he considered the greater personage, the Prophet Muhammad or the Saiyid, replied, with some surprise at the question, that although the Prophet was undoubtedly a great man, yet Saiyid Muhammad Gisu-daraz was a far superior order of being.” Muhammad Qasim Firishta (d. 1611)

In July 1321, about the time Ulugh Khan's army was sent to Warangal to recover the unpaid tribute owed by Pratapa Rudra, an infant son was born in Delhi to a distinguished family of Saiyids – that is, men who claimed descent from the Prophet. Although he lived most of his life in Delhi, Saiyid Muhammad Husaini Gisu Daraz would become known mainly for his work in the Deccan, where he died in 1422 at the ripe age of just over a hundred years.

As seen in the extract from Firishta's history quoted above, this figure occupies a very special place in Deccani popular religion: soon after his death his tomb-shrine in Gulbarga became the most important object of Muslim devotion in the Deccan. It remains so today. He also stands out in the Muslim mystical tradition, as he was the first Indian shaikh to put his thoughts directly to writing, as opposed to having disciples record his conversations. But most importantly, Gisu Daraz contributed to the stabilization and indigenization of Indo-Muslim society and polity in the Deccan, as earlier generations of Sufi shaikhs had already done in Tughluq north India. In the broader context of Indo-Muslim thought and practice, his career helped transform the Deccan from what had been an infidel land available for plunder by north Indian dynasts, to a legally inviolable abode of peace.

http://histories.cambridge.org/extract?id=chol9780521254847_CHOL9780521254847A004

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Oh, the contradictions that result from copy-pasting articles without bothering to understand their implications...

https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p100-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#45228
https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p350-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#63478

The Hindustani language may have originally travelled to South India through the sufi mystics who travelled to South India and preached in the Hindustani language and helped popularized it. One of the most notable of such sufi mystics of north india who travelled to the south in order to spread their teachings was this gentleman:


“A Deccani, on being once asked whom he considered the greater personage, the Prophet Muhammad or the Saiyid, replied, with some surprise at the question, that although the Prophet was undoubtedly a great man, yet Saiyid Muhammad Gisu-daraz was a far superior order of being.” Muhammad Qasim Firishta (d. 1611)

In July 1321, about the time Ulugh Khan's army was sent to Warangal to recover the unpaid tribute owed by Pratapa Rudra, an infant son was born in Delhi to a distinguished family of Saiyids – that is, men who claimed descent from the Prophet. Although he lived most of his life in Delhi, Saiyid Muhammad Husaini Gisu Daraz would become known mainly for his work in the Deccan, where he died in 1422 at the ripe age of just over a hundred years.

As seen in the extract from Firishta's history quoted above, this figure occupies a very special place in Deccani popular religion: soon after his death his tomb-shrine in Gulbarga became the most important object of Muslim devotion in the Deccan. It remains so today. He also stands out in the Muslim mystical tradition, as he was the first Indian shaikh to put his thoughts directly to writing, as opposed to having disciples record his conversations. But most importantly, Gisu Daraz contributed to the stabilization and indigenization of Indo-Muslim society and polity in the Deccan, as earlier generations of Sufi shaikhs had already done in Tughluq north India. In the broader context of Indo-Muslim thought and practice, his career helped transform the Deccan from what had been an infidel land available for plunder by north Indian dynasts, to a legally inviolable abode of peace.

http://histories.cambridge.org/extract?id=chol9780521254847_CHOL9780521254847A004

The Southerners developed and nourished the language which had come from the North so much so that it became a distinct form of Hindustani known as Dakhini. Later, this Dakhini travelled back to North India through the medium of poetry.

When Wali Dakhni (also known as Wali Aurangabadi and Wali Gujarati), a famous poet of Dakhni visited Delhi in 1700, he astonished the poets of Delhi with his ghazals. He drew wide applause from the Persian-speaking poets, some of who, after listening to Wali, also adopted the language of the people, ‘Urdu’, as the medium of their poetic expressions. Prominent poets -- Shah Hatem, Shah Abro and Mir Taqi Mir -- were among his admirers.

At that time in Delhi, the court poets were composing in Persian and Arabic. For others, Braj and Awadhi were the languages of literary and religious expressions. The spoken language of all was Khari Boli. When the poets listened to Wali in Dakhni language (which is also a variant of Khari Boli) they were struck by the fact that the spoken language of the people was capable of such rich literary expression.

Wali Dakhni, born as Wali Muhammad (1667-1731 or 1743) was born in Aurangabad and went to Gujarat in search of a Guru. He became a disciple of Wajihuddin Gujarati and soon became famous. He came back and settled in Aurangabad but travelled twice to Delhi. His first trip produced the dramatic results and made him known as father of Urdu poetry. He died in Ahmedabad and Hindu fascists recently razed to ground his tomb in the aftermath of Godhra riots. Wali Dakhni composed 473 ghazals besides masnawis and qasidas. His ghazals are still sung by several singers including Abida Parveen.

http://www.bangalorenotes.com/dakhni.htm

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Oh, the contradictions that result from copy-pasting articles without bothering to understand their implications...

https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p100-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#45228
https://such.forumotion.com/t5730p350-telangana-telugu-an-offshoot-of-dakhni#63478

The Hindustani language may have originally travelled to South India through the sufi mystics who travelled to South India and preached in the Hindustani language and helped popularized it. One of the most notable of such sufi mystics of north india who travelled to the south in order to spread their teachings was this gentleman:


“A Deccani, on being once asked whom he considered the greater personage, the Prophet Muhammad or the Saiyid, replied, with some surprise at the question, that although the Prophet was undoubtedly a great man, yet Saiyid Muhammad Gisu-daraz was a far superior order of being.” Muhammad Qasim Firishta (d. 1611)

In July 1321, about the time Ulugh Khan's army was sent to Warangal to recover the unpaid tribute owed by Pratapa Rudra, an infant son was born in Delhi to a distinguished family of Saiyids – that is, men who claimed descent from the Prophet. Although he lived most of his life in Delhi, Saiyid Muhammad Husaini Gisu Daraz would become known mainly for his work in the Deccan, where he died in 1422 at the ripe age of just over a hundred years.

As seen in the extract from Firishta's history quoted above, this figure occupies a very special place in Deccani popular religion: soon after his death his tomb-shrine in Gulbarga became the most important object of Muslim devotion in the Deccan. It remains so today. He also stands out in the Muslim mystical tradition, as he was the first Indian shaikh to put his thoughts directly to writing, as opposed to having disciples record his conversations. But most importantly, Gisu Daraz contributed to the stabilization and indigenization of Indo-Muslim society and polity in the Deccan, as earlier generations of Sufi shaikhs had already done in Tughluq north India. In the broader context of Indo-Muslim thought and practice, his career helped transform the Deccan from what had been an infidel land available for plunder by north Indian dynasts, to a legally inviolable abode of peace.

http://histories.cambridge.org/extract?id=chol9780521254847_CHOL9780521254847A004

As may be seen the most important figure for veneration amongst south indian muslims is a north indian. This is similar to north indians holding southerners (Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhava, Vallabha, etc.) in veneration.

Oy gevalt!

I suspect the goal is to download the entire internet to this thread. At least the duckini-cluckini section of the internet. If I had to guess the current project status, I'd say he is 60% done.

only 8 pages and you lightweights are overwhelmed. there's more where that came from and it's not even half way till full moon in the western hemisphere