Hindi film Aradhana had created a sensation in Tamil Nadu

by Guest Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:52 pm

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t46-hindi-film-aradhana-had-created-a-sensation-in-tamil-nadu

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:02 pm

the most hindi that tamilians from that era knew was from the ubiquitous saettu character in tamil movies, typically a greedy marwadi money lender. the character typically played by balayyA uttered lines like, "nimbaLki nambaL kadan koddukarAn". boy how i wish i could watch those movies again.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:20 pm

Rashmun wrote:http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t46-hindi-film-aradhana-had-created-a-sensation-in-tamil-nadu

Gupt Gyaan had also created a sensation.... Razz

as did Bobby and Hare Krishna Hare Ram. That only proves the open-mindedness of the South Indians

- unlike the narrow minded, Naarthie hindi fanatics who refuse to see anything but hindi movies.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:50 pm

If there is a good movie, people in SI go watch it. I watch Gandharva sangeetham on a Malayalam channel, Sa re ga ma pa (Hindi), etc. When I was a student in India, I listened to both Hindustani and Carnatik music on the radio. How many UP bhayyas appreciate Carnatic music?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:53 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote: How many UP bhayyas appreciate Carnatic music?

wrong question. here's the right question; "how many UP bhayyas appreciate hindustani music?"

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:54 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:If there is a good movie, people in SI go watch it. I watch Gandharva sangeetham on a Malayalam channel, Sa re ga ma pa (Hindi), etc. When I was a student in India, I listened to both Hindustani and Carnatik music on the radio. How many UP bhayyas appreciate Carnatic music?

Do the kurbanis and Gazals - the favorite of UP Bhaiyas - count?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:55 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Do the kurbanis and Gazals - the favorite of UP Bhaiyas - count?[/quote]

I bet Laloo does listen to them when he is with Rabri Devi. Look at how many kids "God" gave them!

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:02 pm

My (as yet incomplete) response to sandilya, max, samiyaar and others:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t47-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture#90s

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:09 pm

Rashmun wrote:My (as yet incomplete) response to sandilya, max, samiyaar and others:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t47-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture#90s

same old boring tripe.

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:17 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:My (as yet incomplete) response to sandilya, max, samiyaar and others:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t47-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture#90s

same old boring tripe.

the preliminary writeup would be familiar to you, but i have some other things to say on this issue as indicated by the words 'to be continued'. I am going to explain why classical music is not of as much interest to the average UPwalah as it is to the average tamilian for instance. Stay tuned.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Rashmun wrote: I am going to explain why classical music is not of as much interest to the average UPwalah as it is to the average tamilian for instance. Stay tuned.

that's easily explained. to explore and cultivate art one needs time and mental space. poorer societies can afford neither because their more immediate existential needs take primacy.

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote: I am going to explain why classical music is not of as much interest to the average UPwalah as it is to the average tamilian for instance. Stay tuned.

that's easily explained. to explore and cultivate art one needs time and mental space. poorer societies can afford neither because their more immediate existential needs take primacy.

although GDP of the southern states is definitely more than that of UP, GDP is not a good indicator of poverty. A better indicator is farmers' suicides in my opinion. Now, when it comes to farmers' suicides the southern states together with Maharashtra, Gujarat, Punjab, and Chattisgarh take the lead. It is fallacious to think that the poor in TN and AP are better off than the poor in UP; it is probably the other way around because of the large number of rivers and vast arable land in UP.

-----
Farmers in India became the centre of considerable concern in the 1990s when the journalist P Sainath highlighted the large number of suicides among them. Official reports initially denied the farmer suicides but as more and more information came to light the government began to accept that farmers in India were under considerable stress. On figures there was much debate since the issue was so emotive. More than 17,500 farmers a year killed themselves between 2002 and 2006, according to experts who have analyzed government statistics.[2] Others traced the increase in farmer suicides to the early 1990s.[3] [4] It was said, a comprehensive all-India study is still awaited, that most suicides occurred in states of Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Kerala and Punjab.[5][6][7][8][9] The situation was grim enough to force at least the Maharashtra government to set up a dedicated office to deal with farmers distress.[10]

In 2006, the state of Maharashtra, with 4,453 farmers’ suicides accounted for over a quarter of the all-India total of 17,060, according to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB). NCRB also stated that there were at least 16,196 farmers' suicides in India in 2008, bringing the total since 1997 to 199,132 .[11] According to another study by the Bureau, while the number of farm suicides increased since 2001, the number of farmers has fallen, as thousands abandoning agriculture in distress.[12] According to government data, over 5,000 farmers committed suicide in 2005-2009 in Maharashtra, while 1,313 cases reported by Andhra Pradesh between 2005 and 2007. In Karnataka the number stood at 1,003, since 2005-06 till August 2009. According to NCRB database number of suicides during 2005-2009 in Gujarat 387, Kerala 905, Punjab 75 and Tamil Nadu 26.[13] In April 2009, the state of Chattisgarh reported 1,500 farmers committed suicide due to debt and crop failure.[14] At least 17,368 Indian farmers killed themselves in 2009, the worst figure for farm suicides in six years, according to data of the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB).[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers'_suicides_in_India#cite_note-4

by Idéfix Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:36 pm

Yes, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Punjab, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh are poorer than Uttar Pradesh.

Let me restate your case in the way you actually meant it:

~~although~~ because per-capita GDP of the southern states is definitely more than that of UP, per-capita GDP is not a good indicator of poverty.

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 pm

panini press wrote:Yes, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Punjab, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh are poorer than Uttar Pradesh.

Let me restate your case in the way you actually meant it:

~~although~~ because per-capita GDP of the southern states is definitely more than that of UP, per-capita GDP is not a good indicator of poverty.

The huge number of farmers' suicides in Andhra Pradesh seem to have taken a toll on your psyche. Calm down.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:03 pm

Rashmun wrote:

much irrelevance deleted.

you posed a question; i answered it. instead of analyzing my answer, you went off on a complete tangent. my contention is that one's basic needs like food and shelter have to be met at the very least, before one can engage in artistic pursuits like music. this is harder for an average uttar pradeshi in contemporary india than it is for an average indian tamilian. my thesis is borne out by current per capita GDP data (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_by_GDP). so it is not surprising that the average uttar pradeshi is not as interested in hindustani music as the average tamilian is in carnatic music. the average uttar pradeshi does not have the leisure and mental space that prosperity (even in relative terms) affords to engage in art.

by Idéfix Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 pm

P. Sainath, the best-known expert on the topic of farmer suicides in India, writes:

Generally speaking, the Gangetic plain region and eastern India have seen fewer farm suicides. States such as Uttar Pradesh (including Uttaranchal), Bihar (including Jharkhand) and Orissa report very few suicides of this kind. These States are in many respects the opposite of the Group II or ‘Suicide SEZ’ States. These are overwhelmingly food crop regions. They are not intensive input zones, and their costs of cultivation are much lower. Use of chemicals is not anywhere at the levels it is in the Group II States. Government support prices for food crop provide some minimal stability. And there is obviously a better water situation.

It is interesting to note the lack of references to poverty in his analysis.

http://hindu.com/2007/11/15/stories/2007111554771300.htm

by Idéfix Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:15 pm

Here, from Wikipedia, is a representation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It is to be noted that "acceptance of facts" belongs in the same rung of this pyramid as "creativity."

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:32 pm

i didn't mean it in the sense of asking who the tolstoy of the zulus is. i meant it strictly in the contemporary context. i know much of hindustani music had its origins in uttar pradesh. but the current standard bearers of the music are maharashtrians, kannadigas, bengalis, and even tamilians. one can count uttar pradeshi hindustani musicians on one hand maybe.

by Guest Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:59 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't mean it in the sense of asking who the tolstoy of the zulus is. i meant it strictly in the contemporary context. i know much of hindustani music had its origins in uttar pradesh. but the current standard bearers of the music are maharashtrians, kannadigas, bengalis, and even tamilians.one can count uttar pradeshi hindustani musicians on one hand maybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatkhande_Music_Institute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayag_Sangeet_Samiti

http://bhu.ac.in/fpa/index.htm

http://www.varanasi.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=137

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:03 am

Nobel prize winning economist Amartya Sen agrees with me when he argues that GDP is not a good indicator of poverty:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/who-is-poor

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:04 am

panini press wrote:P. Sainath, the best-known expert on the topic of farmer suicides in India, writes:

Generally speaking, the Gangetic plain region and eastern India have seen fewer farm suicides. States such as Uttar Pradesh (including Uttaranchal), Bihar (including Jharkhand) and Orissa report very few suicides of this kind. These States are in many respects the opposite of the Group II or ‘Suicide SEZ’ States. These are overwhelmingly food crop regions. They are not intensive input zones, and their costs of cultivation are much lower. Use of chemicals is not anywhere at the levels it is in the Group II States. Government support prices for food crop provide some minimal stability. And there is obviously a better water situation.

It is interesting to note the lack of references to poverty in his analysis.

http://hindu.com/2007/11/15/stories/2007111554771300.htm

Sainath is a journalist, not an economist. Here are the views of a Nobel prize winning economist on GDP and why it is not a good indicator of poverty:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/who-is-poor

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:17 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't mean it in the sense of asking who the tolstoy of the zulus is. i meant it strictly in the contemporary context. i know much of hindustani music had its origins in uttar pradesh. but the current standard bearers of the music are maharashtrians, kannadigas, bengalis, and even tamilians.one can count uttar pradeshi hindustani musicians on one hand maybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatkhande_Music_Institute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayag_Sangeet_Samiti

http://bhu.ac.in/fpa/index.htm

http://www.varanasi.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=137

Max, an acknowledgement of your error and a promise not to repeat it would now be in order.

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:02 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't mean it in the sense of asking who the tolstoy of the zulus is. i meant it strictly in the contemporary context. i know much of hindustani music had its origins in uttar pradesh. but the current standard bearers of the music are maharashtrians, kannadigas, bengalis, and even tamilians. one can count uttar pradeshi hindustani musicians on one hand maybe.

The two men who did the most for developing, popularizing, and to some extent 're-discovering' Hindustani classical music in modern times were these two Maharashtrian gentleman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_Narayan_Bhatkhande

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_Digambar_Paluskar

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:15 am

Rashmun wrote:Nobel prize winning economist Amartya Sen agrees with me when he argues that GDP is not a good indicator of poverty:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/who-is-poor

Amartya Sen agrees with YOU ?

Besh Besh...

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:38 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:i didn't mean it in the sense of asking who the tolstoy of the zulus is. i meant it strictly in the contemporary context. i know much of hindustani music had its origins in uttar pradesh. but the current standard bearers of the music are maharashtrians, kannadigas, bengalis, and even tamilians. one can count uttar pradeshi hindustani musicians on one hand maybe.

The two men who did the most for developing, popularizing, and to some extent 're-discovering' Hindustani classical music in modern times were these two Maharashtrian gentleman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_Narayan_Bhatkhande

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu_Digambar_Paluskar

i am glad that UPwalahs had the intelligence to recognize Bhatkhande's genius and utilized his expertise to set up a music training institute in Lucknow.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:29 am

Rashmun wrote:

Max, an acknowledgement of your error and a promise not to repeat it would now be in order.

i'll do no such thing. sen didn't say that per capita gdp is not an ingredient in his multidimensional index. if i understand his point, there are other aspects to poverty besides per capita gdp. but i don't think he said that per capita gdp did not matter. if anything it probably forms an important part of his multidimensional index. not having detailed values of the multidimensional index for indian states, for our purposes here i'll continue to use the per capita gdp. if you find more finer grained data like the multidimensional index feel free to post it here.

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:38 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Max, an acknowledgement of your error and a promise not to repeat it would now be in order.

i'll do no such thing. sen didn't say that per capita gdp is not an ingredient in his multidimensional index. if i understand his point, there are other aspects to poverty besides per capita gdp. but i don't think he said that per capita gdp did not matter. if anything it probably forms an important part of his multidimensional index. not having detailed values of the multidimensional index for indian states, for our purposes here i'll continue to use the per capita gdp. if you find more finer grained data like the multidimensional index feel free to post it here.

I very much doubt that Sen used "rate of farmer suicides" as a "better" indicator of poverty than per-capita GDP. Income and its distribution (Gini coefficient) are the two most important indicators of poverty in a society.

by Maria S Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:04 am

You'all are so adorable..

Forget the Obama-Romney..debate..I wish your debates about "Aardhana" could be televised! I can at least see what color suits-ties you are all wearing!

And it's such a man vs. man debate..

Rashmun bringing up the GDP and the Economy, invoking Nobel Winners..

Max_Man with this sharp lines..

And dear Carvaka with Charts and Maps!

Not to mention farmers..suicides (that's a little much-depressing)

I can't speak for all the women..but, I don't think any woman would bring up things you'all do..about a romantic movie like Aardhana..which was memorable because of the well-made romantic theme.. popular appeal of good looking Rajesh and Sharmila special chemistry and biology with that sexy- one-night stand and baby making with "Roop Tera Mastana!" (looking at each other..language was not an issue, imo..could have been any language!)

No different from the Oscar panel going all gung- ho for Jai Ho..
or American friends with going "awwww" for Rajini in "Thillana Thillana" song from Muthu I showed them on youtube (like Japan did!) or the whole world moon walking for Michael J or going "Gangum style" for that charming what's his name guy..

If a movie/music..entertains the "masses"- something stands out with Universal appeal..we want to vicariously live through it..and Aardhana was the right movie for that right time..when we all romantics (no shortage of them in TamilNadu) liked it a lot!

Carry on you alpha males! Very Happy

by Maria S Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:20 am

I see- Maslow's hierarchy of needs in ref to movies- with mass appeal a little differently..

*For most people "entertaining" movies- esp. the masses (average-poor)..is an escape..one can argue about their "taste"..and what is superior/inferior..but, that would be subjective too!

Did not want to forget the BIG "Motherhood" angle in Aardhana..which is universally appealing as well.

Movies like Aradhana have all those "escape elements" aligned well..it's not too depressing, somewhat relatable, not to mention the "sacrificing mother"..with a somewhat happy ending.

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:25 am

Maria S wrote:
I see- Maslow's hierarchy of needs in ref to movies- with mass appeal a little differently..

Yes. I just put that in there to poke fun at a certain lack of acceptance of facts.

by Maria S Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:42 am

I understand C:)

On a different note..my late Dad who really did not know Telugu, or watch Telugu movies or like Classical music..watched "Sankarabharanam"..not sure how many times (like a lot of people in TN)! Frankly, I did not like this movie at all, was a little boring..and I think it was really for the actress, Manju Bhargavi (!) who he must have found very appealing!

I have the old worn out VCR cassette tape he enjoyed so much..kind of sad and funny when I think about those days and esp. miss him and teasing him about it:)

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:50 am

panini press wrote:
Maria S wrote:
I see- Maslow's hierarchy of needs in ref to movies- with mass appeal a little differently..
Yes. I just put that in there to poke fun at a certain lack of acceptance of facts.

The laugh was on you when i showed that Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:51 am

Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.

He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:58 am

panini press wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Max, an acknowledgement of your error and a promise not to repeat it would now be in order.

i'll do no such thing. sen didn't say that per capita gdp is not an ingredient in his multidimensional index. if i understand his point, there are other aspects to poverty besides per capita gdp. but i don't think he said that per capita gdp did not matter. if anything it probably forms an important part of his multidimensional index. not having detailed values of the multidimensional index for indian states, for our purposes here i'll continue to use the per capita gdp. if you find more finer grained data like the multidimensional index feel free to post it here.
I very much doubt that Sen used "rate of farmer suicides" as a "better" indicator of poverty than per-capita GDP. Income and its distribution (Gini coefficient) are the two most important indicators of poverty in a society.

an ecnomomic theory has to be universally applicable. there are many regions on earth where farming is not done at all or done very little. So 'farmers' suicides' would not be a universally applicable parameter, but it is a parameter that does apply to India. Only a callous and heartless person would argue that the following has nothing to do with poverty:

Overall, 15 of 28 States showed worse averages in the second eight years. Across the entire 16 years from 1995-2010, more than a quarter of a million Indian farmers have committed suicide.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article2687160.ece

by Hellsangel Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:05 am

Did too.
Did not.
Did too.
Did not.....

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:06 am

panini press wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.
He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

Wrong. The 'Multi-dimensional Poverty Index' ( which Amartya Sen says is a better estimate of poverty ) does not take into account GDP.

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:19 am

I wish you good luck in satisfying whatever lower-rung needs are holding you back, before you are ready to move on to "acceptance of facts." Smile

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:22 am

panini press wrote:I wish you good luck in satisfying whatever lower-rung needs are holding you back, before you are ready to move on to "acceptance of facts."

Now that all the facts you have been giving have been exposed as rubbish, the only recourse you have is to laugh (at yourself).

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:26 am

Rashmun wrote:
panini press wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.
He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

Wrong. The 'Multi-dimensional Poverty Index' ( which Amartya Sen says is a better estimate of poverty ) does not take into account GDP.

The Wikipedia article on 'Multi-dimensional poverty index':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multidimensional_Poverty_Index

As may be seen in the article, this index takes into account three dimensions (health, education, and standard of living) which are measured using ten indicators in total. GDP does not figure anywhere in the calculation of the 'Multi-dimensional Poverty Index'.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:31 am

alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:35 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

in my opinion the fact that MPI is not taking into account the fact that more than a quarter of a million farmers have committed suicide in less 15 years or so, and the fact that these suicides have not taken place in regions estimated to be more poor according to MPI, shows that there is a lacuna in the MPI parameter in the Indian context. We need to come up with a better parameter to measure poverty in India.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:35 am

here is a nugget from that article:

there are more MPI-poor in the eight indian states of bihar, chattisgarh, jharkhand, madhya pradesh, orissa, rajasthan, utthar pradesh, and west bengal than the 26 poorest nations of africa combined.

do you now understand why there isn't as much interest in utthar pradesh for hindustani music as one might expect?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:37 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

in my opinion the fact that MPI is not taking into account the fact that more than a quarter of a million farmers have committed suicide in less 15 years or so, and the fact that these suicides have not taken place in regions estimated to be more poor according to MPI, shows that there is a lacuna in the MPI parameter in the Indian context. We need to come up with a better parameter to measure poverty in India.

so now you don't like amartya sen either? i thought he was your new hero after akbar and his grandfather, he of the ambiguous sexuality.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:38 am

Rashmun wrote:
panini press wrote:
Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.
He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

Wrong. The 'Multi-dimensional Poverty Index' ( which Amartya Sen says is a better estimate of poverty ) does not take into account GDP.

So you are saying UP is not poor.

Then I am right. The only reason why the UPwallas don't watch any non-hindi movie is bcz of their narrow-minded, racist, casteist, idiocy.

Thank you for proving my point - through your tortuous route.

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:41 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

in my opinion the fact that MPI is not taking into account the fact that more than a quarter of a million farmers have committed suicide in less 15 years or so, and the fact that these suicides have not taken place in regions estimated to be more poor according to MPI, shows that there is a lacuna in the MPI parameter in the Indian context. We need to come up with a better parameter to measure poverty in India.

so now you don't like amartya sen either? i thought he was your new hero after akbar and his grandfather, he of the ambiguous sexuality.

I like Amartya Sen, but i don't believe in becoming dogmatic when it comes to any theory. The MPI is not explaining why a lot more farmers are committing suicides--in large numbers-- in regions in India which are less poor according to MPI.

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 am

Rashmun, thanks for suggesting MPI as a better measure for poverty than "farmer suicides." Based on MPI scores, Uttar Pradesh is much poorer than Punjab, Maharashtra, Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh.

See page 6 of http://www.ophi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Country-Brief-India.pdf

by Idéfix Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:44 am

Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

in my opinion the fact that MPI is not taking into account the fact that more than a quarter of a million farmers have committed suicide in less 15 years or so, and the fact that these suicides have not taken place in regions estimated to be more poor according to MPI, shows that there is a lacuna in the MPI parameter in the Indian context. We need to come up with a better parameter to measure poverty in India.

Please identify the unmet needs you are grappling with on lower levels of the pyramid, so you can graduate to "acceptance of facts."

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:44 am

panini press wrote:Rashmun, thanks for suggesting MPI as a better measure for poverty than "farmer suicides." Based on MPI scores, Uttar Pradesh is much poorer than Punjab, Maharashtra, Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh.

See page 6 of http://www.ophi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Country-Brief-India.pdf

Keep Lying.

by Guest Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:46 am

panini press wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:alright let's go with your now favorite measure of poverty, the MPI favored by sen. what does that look like for indian states?

try this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ophi.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FOPHI-MPI-Brief.pdf&ei=mwdrUL32G_G50QGv0oDAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEacrch9JVaU3OrEAGkJ24z-N20Sw&cad=rja

in my opinion the fact that MPI is not taking into account the fact that more than a quarter of a million farmers have committed suicide in less 15 years or so, and the fact that these suicides have not taken place in regions estimated to be more poor according to MPI, shows that there is a lacuna in the MPI parameter in the Indian context. We need to come up with a better parameter to measure poverty in India.
Please identify the unmet needs you are grappling with on lower levels of the pyramid, so you can graduate to "acceptance of facts."

Do you agree now that GDP is not taken into account in MPI as you were mistakenly assuming earlier? Or will you keep trying to pass off your rubbish as 'facts'.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:49 am

i too thank rashmun for pointing out amartya sen's work. quite apart from scoring cheap debate points, this is quite fascinating and i totally agree that it gives a finer grained picture of poverty.

nevertheless i stand by my original contention that poverty is not conducive to the pursuit of art. if great art arises from within great poverty, it is despite poverty, not because of it. there are always exceptions.

by Sponsored content

Hitskin.com