Rashmun wrote:This data is irrelevant because the number 1 state in terms of 'assessed tax revenues'--Maharashtra--also has the largest number of farmers' suicides.

UP might be economically less wealthy as compared to some of the other Indian states, but culturally it is perhaps the most important of all the Indian states. It was in UP, for example, that the Upanisads were composed. It was in UP also where the Budha gave his first public sermon and where he died; he was born very close to the UP border in modern Nepal. UP is also associated with Lord Krishna, Radha, Balarama (Mathura, Vrindavan, Barsana, Govardhana hill, etc.) and Lord Rama (Chitrakoot, Kamadgiri hill, etc.). UP is also home to one of the most sacred of all spots to hindus--the Sangam at Prayag--which is the confluence of the Ganga and the Yamuna rivers.

Besides the religious places and monuments, UP is also home to the Taj Mahal which the whole world has heard of and knows about.

Furthermore, UP was in the forefront of the struggle in the Indian war of independence in 1857. In contrast, other states like modern day AP (ruled by the Nizams) preferred to collaborate and collude with the British.

panini press wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Rashmun wrote: Overall, 15 of 28 States showed worse averages in the second eight years. Across the entire 16 years from 1995-2010, more than a quarter of a million Indian farmers have committed suicide.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article2687160.ece

Of the 1.8 mill suicides in India during this period, a mere 250K i.e. 14% were by farmers, way below their representation in the general population.

This is because farmers are not as poor as businessmen, politicians, housewives and students.

Natalia Romanova wrote:100 posts! gasp!

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

panini press wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Rashmun wrote: Overall, 15 of 28 States showed worse averages in the second eight years. Across the entire 16 years from 1995-2010, more than a quarter of a million Indian farmers have committed suicide.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article2687160.ece

Of the 1.8 mill suicides in India during this period, a mere 250K i.e. 14% were by farmers, way below their representation in the general population.

This is because farmers are not as poor as businessmen, politicians, housewives and students.

So? How is a farmer's suicide any more tragic than an urban slumdweller's? Or more deserving of policy attention?

I would think a disproportionately lower incidence of suicide in the agriculturist cohort wouldn't be a source of concern. Even conceptually, village communities afford stronger support systems to a troubled individual. Policy-makers should worry more about the uprooted, socially-alienated urban poor who lack that support and are more likely to commit suicide in the face of sheer hopelessness.

But no, every politician and populist bleeding heart uses farmer suicides to beat up an incumbent government. The pols do it for the votes of course. And the others are just victims of that whole Gandhian populist propaganda we are all raised on, of how villagers are the salt of the earth, their pain is our pain etc.

panini press wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

panini press wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Rashmun wrote: Overall, 15 of 28 States showed worse averages in the second eight years. Across the entire 16 years from 1995-2010, more than a quarter of a million Indian farmers have committed suicide.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/sainath/article2687160.ece

Of the 1.8 mill suicides in India during this period, a mere 250K i.e. 14% were by farmers, way below their representation in the general population.

This is because farmers are not as poor as businessmen, politicians, housewives and students.

So? How is a farmer's suicide any more tragic than an urban slumdweller's? Or more deserving of policy attention?

I would think a disproportionately lower incidence of suicide in the agriculturist cohort wouldn't be a source of concern. Even conceptually, village communities afford stronger support systems to a troubled individual. Policy-makers should worry more about the uprooted, socially-alienated urban poor who lack that support and are more likely to commit suicide in the face of sheer hopelessness.

But no, every politician and populist bleeding heart uses farmer suicides to beat up an incumbent government. The pols do it for the votes of course. And the others are just victims of that whole Gandhian populist propaganda we are all raised on, of how villagers are the salt of the earth, their pain is our pain etc.

Sir, I was being facetious. If anything, students who commit suicide due to ragging, failure in exams or broken hearts usually tend to be financially better off than farmers who commit suicide due to crop failure. I was just applying Rashmun's logic connecting suicide to poverty in response to your question.

Rashmun wrote:My (as yet incomplete) response to sandilya, max, samiyaar and others:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t47-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture#90s

Rashmun wrote:

Rashmun wrote:My (as yet incomplete) response to sandilya, max, samiyaar and others:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t47-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture#90s

A continuation of my response:

http://sulekha.forumotion.com/t59-some-general-comments-on-indian-culture-part-2

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:From the point of view of Hinduism, UP is far more important than either AP or Tamil Nadu. Likewise from the point of view of Budhism. And the most famous monument in India is in UP.

All of which has exactly zilch to do with the original question: is UP poorer than MH, TN, AP, etc. and does that have anything to do with spare time for cultural pursuits for its residents? What matters now is the current economic status. After flailing around with GDP, farmer suicides, MPI, etc., you acknowledged that UP is poorer: "UP might be economically less wealthy as compared to some of the other Indian states." That's the point that Max was trying to make.

that discussion is done and dusted. rashmun lost that one although he didn't graciously acknowledge it. he is now trying to salvage some historical pride for his home state.

Max, i have not yet even begun answering the question of whether the average UPwalah has as much spare time as the average tamilian which is why he does not take as much interest in classical music as the average tamilian. I have not even attempted to address this issue. I will though. But not in this thread. It deserves a fresh thread.

Rashmun copy-pastes Bhaskar Ghose who wrote:True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun copy-pastes Bhaskar Ghose who wrote:True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south.

Who is worse? The one who is ignorant, or the other who relies too much on the ignorant one's word?

http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/08/stories/2008040852260200.htm

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun copy-pastes Bhaskar Ghose who wrote:True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south.

Who is worse? The one who is ignorant, or the other who relies too much on the ignorant one's word?

http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/08/stories/2008040852260200.htm

Let us modify Bhaskar Ghose's statement and state that mushairas and kavi sammelans take place on a much larger and grander scale in north india, in states like UP, than in south india, in states like AP.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun copy-pastes Bhaskar Ghose who wrote:True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south.

Who is worse? The one who is ignorant, or the other who relies too much on the ignorant one's word?

http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/08/stories/2008040852260200.htm

Let us modify Bhaskar Ghose's statement and state that mushairas and kavi sammelans take place on a much larger and grander scale in north india, in states like UP, than in south india, in states like AP.

I don't have all day to show you that you are wrong. So you can modify any statement and make up any "fact" that you'd like. Just know it, that you are wrong on this one. Just like you were when you had confidently claimed many times that UP had only recently overtaken MH in sugarcane production, when I was showing you data to the contrary. That was one day I wasted, and don't want to waster another one.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun copy-pastes Bhaskar Ghose who wrote:True, in some parts of this country, there are mushairas and kavi sammelans where poets recite their works, often to large appreciative audiences. But that happens largely in northern India; one is not aware of similar gatherings of poets in the south.

Who is worse? The one who is ignorant, or the other who relies too much on the ignorant one's word?

http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/08/stories/2008040852260200.htm

Let us modify Bhaskar Ghose's statement and state that mushairas and kavi sammelans take place on a much larger and grander scale in north india, in states like UP, than in south india, in states like AP.

I don't have all day to show you that you are wrong. So you can modify any statement and make up any "fact" that you'd like. Just know it, that you are wrong on this one. Just like you were when you had confidently claimed many times that UP had only recently overtaken MH in sugarcane production, when I was showing you data to the contrary. That was one day I wasted, and don't want to waster another one.

Only recently you were happily chirping your rubbish about how per capita GDP is a component of the Multi-dimensional Poverty Index (MPI). I had to explain details of how the MPI is calculated to make you stop your nonsense. With respect to sugarcane production vs sugar production, i immediately rectified and clarified my error after i went back to the news articles which discussed this issue. But you did not have the decency to rectify your mistake.

panini press wrote:I don't have all day to show you that you are wrong.

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:bonus last year = 0, as i had predicted?

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:FAIL?

Rashmun wrote:Only recently you were happily chirping your rubbish about how per capita GDP is a component of the Multi-dimensional Poverty Index (MPI).

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Only recently you were happily chirping your rubbish about how per capita GDP is a component of the Multi-dimensional Poverty Index (MPI).

I never claimed that per-capita GDP is a component of MPI! I claimed that MPI should be used alongside per-capita to get an understanding of relative poverty levels. Unfortunately for you, Uttar Pradesh is far behind southern India on both of those measures, so your introduction of MPI into the conversation made absolutely no difference to the point being made.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Only recently you were happily chirping your rubbish about how per capita GDP is a component of the Multi-dimensional Poverty Index (MPI).

I never claimed that per-capita GDP is a component of MPI! I claimed that MPI should be used alongside per-capita to get an understanding of relative poverty levels. Unfortunately for you, Uttar Pradesh is far behind southern India on both of those measures, so your introduction of MPI into the conversation made absolutely no difference to the point being made.

Sad to see you brazenly lying now:

https://such.forumotion.com/t8163-hindi-film-aradhana-had-created-a-sensation-in-tamil-nadu#61710

Too bad you got caught.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Only recently you were happily chirping your rubbish about how per capita GDP is a component of the Multi-dimensional Poverty Index (MPI).

I never claimed that per-capita GDP is a component of MPI! I claimed that MPI should be used alongside per-capita to get an understanding of relative poverty levels. Unfortunately for you, Uttar Pradesh is far behind southern India on both of those measures, so your introduction of MPI into the conversation made absolutely no difference to the point being made.

Sad to see you brazenly lying now:

https://such.forumotion.com/t8163-hindi-film-aradhana-had-created-a-sensation-in-tamil-nadu#61710

Too bad you got caught.

Carefully read what I said. Just like you misread what I said about sugarcane production and kept repeating falsehoods, you are doing the same thing here.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.

He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Carefully read what I said. Just like you misread what I said about sugarcane production and kept repeating falsehoods, you are doing the same thing here.

Carefully read again what you yourself wrote. Repeating falsehoods will not change the fact that you wrongly thought that Amartya Sen includes per-capita GDP in his indicator of poverty (he doesn't).

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.

He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

Rashmun wrote:his indicator of poverty

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Carefully read what I said. Just like you misread what I said about sugarcane production and kept repeating falsehoods, you are doing the same thing here.

Carefully read again what you yourself wrote. Repeating falsehoods will not change the fact that you wrongly thought that Amartya Sen includes per-capita GDP in his indicator of poverty (he doesn't).

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Amartya Sen argues against using GDP as an indicator of poverty.

He doesn't. He argues against using per-capita GDP as the sole indicator of poverty.

I didn't say here that MPI includes GDP. I said Sen doesn't argue against using GDP, but he argues (in the article that you posted) against using only GDP.

Rashmun wrote:his indicator of poverty

MPI is not Sen's indicator. It was developed by other researchers.

The new MPI was developed and applied by OPHI with UNDP support and supplants the HPI. Sabina Alkire and Maria Emma Santos designed the MPI using a technique for multidimensional measurement created by Sabina Alkire and James Foster.


http://www.ophi.org.uk/multidimensional-poverty-index/background/

blabberwock wrote:(Yeh Jo Hai Zindagi, Nukkad, Hum Log, Khandaan, a show with Kittu Gidwani based on Austen's Pride and Prejudice etc)

There, I said it. I feel lighter.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ayyo! you are hereby firmly booted from the sacred iyer fraternity. there is no room for appeal for you, you understand, so don't even think along those lines. ...FAIL!

blabberwock wrote:HK, I was very young and misguided when these atrocities happened, ok?

I am no FAIL - bah!

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ayyo! you are hereby firmly booted from the sacred iyer fraternity. there is no room for appeal for you, you understand, so don't even think along those lines. ...FAIL!

Yes, your fall from grace is complete and final. Your only hope of redemption now lies in solving even more complex algebraic / geometrical problems, preferably using iyer-certified lagrange multipliers. Better still, start posting youtube videos of obscure carnatic vocalists, specially addressed to the powers that be. And oh yes, instead of flirting with mushroom tarts and such, pics of authentic pavakkai pitlai taken from different angles, at different stages of preparation will win you some merits.

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:ayyo! you are hereby firmly booted from the sacred iyer fraternity. there is no room for appeal for you, you understand, so don't even think along those lines. ...FAIL!

Yes, your fall from grace is complete and final. Your only hope of redemption now lies in solving even more complex algebraic / geometrical problems, preferably using iyer-certified lagrange multipliers. Better still, start posting youtube videos of obscure carnatic vocalists, specially addressed to the powers that be. And oh yes, instead of flirting with mushroom tarts and such, pics of authentic pavakkai pitlai taken from different angles, at different stages of preparation will win you some merits.

Kris wrote:-

>>>>>Who? Who? Do tell! KV was one of them, wasn't it? I knew it, I knew it. That lady doth protest too much!

blabberwock wrote:

Kris wrote:-

>>>>>Who? Who? Do tell! KV was one of them, wasn't it? I knew it, I knew it. That lady doth protest too much!

She may have been one of them, for all I know. These were authentic Thamizhar women, born in Madras and raised on thayir sadam and vadu mangai. We all attended paaTTu classes, wore our paTTu paavadais and sang at koLus for sunDal and such.

HK,MD, PP, Fiddle de dee to y'all! TCH Iyer mama will still like me lots, so there!