US position on sri lankan govt's war crimes

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:51 pm

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

by Rishi Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:01 pm

>>> Tamils should be thankful to Ambassador Michele J. Sison. She was posted to Sri Lanka just a year ago. And she swung into action immediately after doing her homework.

by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:03 pm

It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:10 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:27 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

What is your take on Indian troops in Kashmir, Il Professor-ai?

by Guest Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:38 pm

US waged the deadliest wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in retaliation for the killing of 3000 ppl in 9/11. I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

What did India do when the Khalistanis wanted Punjab to secede and become independent from India? There had to be an operation blue star and fake and brutal encounters by tough officers like K.P.S Gill to shut their voices down and bring peace to the region.

What should an small island country like Sri Lanka do when a section of its population want to break away from it? And this has been going on for decades and taking a toll on its peace, development and prosperity.

When I was little, i remember that people used to go to Sri Lanka to shop for foreign goods. I believe their trade was open and their business was booming at that time. Look at the poor island now.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

What is your take on Indian troops in Kashmir, Il Professor-ai?

Or British troops in Northern Ireland?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:45 pm

Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:48 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

What is your take on Indian troops in Kashmir, Il Professor-ai?
Or British troops in Northern Ireland?

are you suggesting rajapaksa should apologize to the tamils? i agree with you.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:50 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

You are just happy that the US government took a stand that *you* agree with. Not many Sinhalese would agree with you.

by Rishi Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:51 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:52 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

What is your take on Indian troops in Kashmir, Il Professor-ai?
Or British troops in Northern Ireland?

are you suggesting rajapaksa should apologize to the tamils? i agree with you.

I think the Tamils should apologize for the terrorism inflicted by the LTTE on India and Sri Lanka.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
I think the Tamils should apologize for the terrorism inflicted by the LTTE on India and Sri Lanka.

that's silly. that's like asking the entire sikh community to apologize for the actions of the khalistanis.

by Guest Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

Ha ha! I hope our country showed the same principled position wrt to the Al Qaida terrorists and the civilians in iraq and afghanistan.

I am not blaming any country here. That's what countries do when there is unrest and a threat to their sovereignty. It may point fingers at other countries and cry foul about the human rights situation there, but when the same situation arises in their home land, they're going to follow suit or even deal with it with a more tough stand. That's hypocrisy and yeah, that's how the world is. Do you think US would've allowed a situation similar to Sri Lanka's in its own land for so many decades? nah!

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:55 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:58 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
I think the Tamils should apologize for the terrorism inflicted by the LTTE on India and Sri Lanka.

that's silly. that's like asking the entire sikh community to apologize for the actions of the khalistanis.

Not silly at all. They should have the guts to say, they don't represent me.

PS: You never answered about Kashmir.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:02 pm

Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.
Ha ha! I hope our country showed the same principled position wrt to the Al Qaida terrorists and the civilians in iraq and afghanistan.

I am not blaming any country here. That's what countries do when there is unrest and a threat to their sovereignty. It may point fingers at other countries and cry foul about the human rights situation there, but when the same situation arises in their home land, they're going to follow suit or even deal with it with a more tough stand. That's hypocrisy and yeah, that's how the world is. Do you think US would've allowed a situation similar to Sri Lanka's in its own land for so many decades? nah!

it is not my intention to defend the US govt in this thread, but there have been many instances of american atrocities in those theaters (i am not talking about unintended deaths), incidents of the robert bales type. we hear about it here in the US, there is an investigation, an internal process, and sometimes even punishment for the perpetrators. can you show me some links to an internal investigation of sri lankan war crimes that was then made public? was anybody punished?

by Rishi Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:03 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:07 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:It's all fair game as long as they tweeted the same about the drone victims in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.,

i don't like american involvement except when it really threatens their security any more than you do, but are you drawing a moral equivalence between unintended deaths due to american action in far off places, and the systematic killings (maybe not amounting to genocide) of an ethnic minority inside a country by the country's own govt?

Max, every army in the world is culpable of war crimes at some level be it is Indian Army in Kashmir, US in Iraq or Srilanka, after all they all were fighting radical forces that garner sympathy from their tribes which makes their job that much more difficult. There are many reports of Indian army raping/killing women in Kashmir and the US army in Iraq in their pursuit contain terrorist actives. I do not condone any of these activities, I was merely pointing out cherry-picking and typical double standards of American establishment.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:08 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

because the US govt does represent me and after more than two decades of living here i feel emotionally attached to this land. after a careful and deliberate thought process, long after i became eligible i decided to become a US citizen. the first time i voted was in the 2008 elections. i feel like it is ok for me to say my govt. the question is -- what is YOUR problem with that particular usage? are you saying that by saying my govt, i am forsaking india? i am not. identities are complex things and evolve with time. i feel very indian in my bones and also very american. if that's too difficult for you to deal with, my apologies.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:15 pm

Rishi wrote:

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i don't think of my naturalization process as simply a piece of paper. it means a lot more to me. i did not apply for citizenship right away. i waited five long years and really thought long and hard if i actually wanted to take the step of formally relinquishing my indian citizenship when i applied for my OCI card. it was emotionally difficult to sign the actual words. i don't think you'd understand.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:25 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
PS: You never answered about Kashmir.

kashmir is not an equivalent situation. underlying everything in kashmir is a territorial dispute between two countries. by saying that i am not denying that there have been atrocities by the indian troops in kashmir. i am just saying the two are by no means comparable.

by Guest Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:26 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.
Ha ha! I hope our country showed the same principled position wrt to the Al Qaida terrorists and the civilians in iraq and afghanistan.

I am not blaming any country here. That's what countries do when there is unrest and a threat to their sovereignty. It may point fingers at other countries and cry foul about the human rights situation there, but when the same situation arises in their home land, they're going to follow suit or even deal with it with a more tough stand. That's hypocrisy and yeah, that's how the world is. Do you think US would've allowed a situation similar to Sri Lanka's in its own land for so many decades? nah!

it is not my intention to defend the US govt in this thread, but there have been many instances of american atrocities in those theaters (i am not talking about unintended deaths), incidents of the robert bales type. we hear about it here in the US, there is an investigation, an internal process, and sometimes even punishment for the perpetrators. can you show me some links to an internal investigation of sri lankan war crimes that was then made public? was anybody punished?

We are not talking abt stray incidents a la the robert bales type. We are talking abt the govt/military action and the blaming of the govt for its military actions as a whole. aren't we?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:37 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Not silly at all. They should have the guts to say, they don't represent me.

there was plenty of early and vocal political opposition to pirabhakaran. he systematically eliminated all of them. are you not familiar with this history?

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:40 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
PS: You never answered about Kashmir.

kashmir is not an equivalent situation. underlying everything in kashmir is a territorial dispute between two countries. by saying that i am not denying that there have been atrocities by the indian troops in kashmir. i am just saying the two are by no means comparable.

Oh really? There is a section that wants independence for Kashmir.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:45 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Not silly at all. They should have the guts to say, they don't represent me.

there was plenty of early and vocal political opposition to pirabhakaran. he systematically eliminated all of them. are you not familiar with this history?

Then blame the LTTE for the sufferings of the Tamil people. They are the ones who caused the Tamil civilians to become collateral damage.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:47 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Not silly at all. They should have the guts to say, they don't represent me.

there was plenty of early and vocal political opposition to pirabhakaran. he systematically eliminated all of them. are you not familiar with this history?

Then blame the LTTE for the sufferings of the Tamil people. They are the ones who caused the Tamil civilians to become collateral damage.

?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/16/channel4-television

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:49 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

The Tigers ruled this state with an iron grip in which dissent was not tolerated – but with the undeniable consent of the majority of the Tamil population. In pursuit of this war they were prepared to use child soldiers and suicide bombers against civilian as well as military targets.

They lived by the sword. They should be prepared to die by it.

You think people would have the same sympathy for the Dalai Lama if he advocated an armed rebellion?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

The Tigers ruled this state with an iron grip in which dissent was not tolerated – but with the undeniable consent of the majority of the Tamil population. In pursuit of this war they were prepared to use child soldiers and suicide bombers against civilian as well as military targets.
They lived by the sword. They should be prepared to die by it.

i don't think they had much of a choice in the matter. he had effectively isolated them, cut off access in or out. what else could they do to survive? and the war is over now, the LTTE history. what possible justification could there be to repress civilians NOW?

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:04 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

The Tigers ruled this state with an iron grip in which dissent was not tolerated – but with the undeniable consent of the majority of the Tamil population. In pursuit of this war they were prepared to use child soldiers and suicide bombers against civilian as well as military targets.
They lived by the sword. They should be prepared to die by it.

i don't think they had much of a choice in the matter. he had effectively isolated them, cut off access in or out. what else could they do to survive? and the war is over now, the LTTE history. what possible justification could there be to repress civilians NOW?

The LTTE may be history as an armed power. But there are enough former members and sympathizers still lingering trying to wage a media war glossing over the LTTE atrocities while squarely blaming the Sinhalese.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:19 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

The Tigers ruled this state with an iron grip in which dissent was not tolerated – but with the undeniable consent of the majority of the Tamil population. In pursuit of this war they were prepared to use child soldiers and suicide bombers against civilian as well as military targets.
They lived by the sword. They should be prepared to die by it.

i don't think they had much of a choice in the matter. he had effectively isolated them, cut off access in or out. what else could they do to survive? and the war is over now, the LTTE history. what possible justification could there be to repress civilians NOW?
The LTTE may be history as an armed power. But there are enough former members and sympathizers still lingering trying to wage a media war glossing over the LTTE atrocities while squarely blaming the Sinhalese.

why are you letting the sinhalese govt off the hook so easily? you can't summon enough energy to ask to investigate their crimes even as you carp about the detritus of the LTTE. and it is astonishing that you can't seem to muster enough sympathy for the actual suffering civilians who just want to go about their lives.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:29 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/03/sri-lanka-slaughter-no-fire-zone

The Tigers ruled this state with an iron grip in which dissent was not tolerated – but with the undeniable consent of the majority of the Tamil population. In pursuit of this war they were prepared to use child soldiers and suicide bombers against civilian as well as military targets.
They lived by the sword. They should be prepared to die by it.

i don't think they had much of a choice in the matter. he had effectively isolated them, cut off access in or out. what else could they do to survive? and the war is over now, the LTTE history. what possible justification could there be to repress civilians NOW?
The LTTE may be history as an armed power. But there are enough former members and sympathizers still lingering trying to wage a media war glossing over the LTTE atrocities while squarely blaming the Sinhalese.

why are you letting the sinhalese govt off the hook so easily? you can't summon enough energy to ask to investigate their crimes even as you carp about the detritus of the LTTE. and it is astonishing that you can't seem to muster enough sympathy for the actual suffering civilians who just want to go about their lives.

There are enough people such as yourself screaming shrilly about the Sinhalese. It would be nice if you also took some time to acknowledge how the the LTTE and their current sympathizers contributed to this.

PS: Life is no picnic for civilians in Kashmir either. But I don't see you getting all upset about it. Maybe it is your ethnicity that shapes your views on the Srilankan conflict. Ask yourself if that is what it is.

by bw Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:17 pm

Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Kinnera wrote:I wonder what it's going to do if a a state/states want to secede from it and become independent.

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

by bw Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:23 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote: i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

will your government take a "principled" stand on israel/palestine? or too much self-interest there to take such noble stands?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:23 pm

bw wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

pirabakaran and his goons made it a secession struggle, but that's not how it started. it started as a demand for equal rights when tamils were starting to be systematically discriminated against. and there is no justification for killing civilians towards the end of the war when they were going after the LTTE. the LTTE are NOT the same as tamil civilians. i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:28 pm

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote: i am glad my govt (the US govt) has taken a firm and principled position about this.

will your government take a "principled" stand on israel/palestine? or too much self-interest there to take such noble stands?

can you point to any elected govt in the world that is white as driven snow and free of hypocrisy? you have some basis for this sort of a response if you find me totally uncritical of the US all the time. i am reasonably introspective to know that i am certainly not like that.

by bw Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:29 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Rishi wrote:

>>> Whenever you visit India, I hope you don't tell your parents "your government is corrupt. My government is not corrupt."

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

oh, it is very easy and natural to get attached to the US or any other such place but that's different from singing "this land is your land, this land is my land".

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:30 pm

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
Rishi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i don't think you are as dense as you pretend.

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

oh, it is very easy and natural to get attached to the US or any other such place but that's different from singing "this land is your land, this land is my land".

see my other response. since you chose to make a pointed and personal criticism, allow me to make one too. i find the cynicism on button on all issues 24/7 a little wearing too.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:42 pm

some modest level of risk taking, only posting because you injected that into the conversation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-seib/obamas-hardball-public-di_b_2935704.html

by Ponniyin Selvan Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:48 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

by Hellsangel Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:51 pm

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

Don't delude yourself.

by bw Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:56 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
Rishi wrote:

>>>Why don't you refer to the US government simply as the US government and the GOI as the Indian government?

In fact, it is your kids who should be referring to the US government as "my government."

It sounds very artificial when you start referring to the US government as "my govt."

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

oh, it is very easy and natural to get attached to the US or any other such place but that's different from singing "this land is your land, this land is my land".

see my other response. since you chose to make a pointed and personal criticism, allow me to make one too. i find the cynicism on button on all issues 24/7 a little wearing too.

it is not personal but directed at all those who become american or british or australian citizens very easily but never a kenyan or an ethiopian one. obviously, it is not the love of the land that drives this patriotism but material welfare. nothing wrong with all that. we(yes, includes me) are all mercenaries but is just a bit grating when it is proudly flaunted as patriotism and unnecessary expressions such as "my country", "my government" are too tempting to avoid taking a dig at. there is someone i know who is very proud to walk through the "foreign passport holders" gate at the indian airports and brags about this at every possible opportunity. i find it hilarious.

by Rishi Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:00 pm

bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:

i find it very funny when indians who went to america largely for material reasons become more of a patriotic american than the americans themselves.

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

oh, it is very easy and natural to get attached to the US or any other such place but that's different from singing "this land is your land, this land is my land".

see my other response. since you chose to make a pointed and personal criticism, allow me to make one too. i find the cynicism on button on all issues 24/7 a little wearing too.

it is not personal but directed at all those who become american or british or australian citizens very easily but never a kenyan or ethiopian one. obviously, it is not the love of the land that drives this patriotism but material welfare. nothing wrong with all that. we(yes, includes me) are all mercenaries but is just a bit grating when it is proudly flaunted as patriotism and unnecessary expressions such as "my country", "my government" are too tempting to avoid taking a dig at. there is someone i know who is very proud to walk through the "foreign passport holders" gate at the indian airports and brags about this at every possible opportunity. i find it hilarious.

>>> That says it all.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:21 pm

Rishi wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
bw wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

i find the expectation that one should not develop an attachment to a place after one has lived there for more than two decades, regardless of what the original reasons were, very funny. and if one actually doesn't, i find it quite odd.

oh, it is very easy and natural to get attached to the US or any other such place but that's different from singing "this land is your land, this land is my land".

see my other response. since you chose to make a pointed and personal criticism, allow me to make one too. i find the cynicism on button on all issues 24/7 a little wearing too.

it is not personal but directed at all those who become american or british or australian citizens very easily but never a kenyan or ethiopian one. obviously, it is not the love of the land that drives this patriotism but material welfare. nothing wrong with all that. we(yes, includes me) are all mercenaries but is just a bit grating when it is proudly flaunted as patriotism and unnecessary expressions such as "my country", "my government" are too tempting to avoid taking a dig at. there is someone i know who is very proud to walk through the "foreign passport holders" gate at the indian airports and brags about this at every possible opportunity. i find it hilarious.

>>> That says it all.

i hope you never get stuck in some uncomfortable situation, even if it is not of your making, where you have to ask for consular help to extricate yourself. and if you do, please try to stay calm and principled, and accept your fate, and don't identify "your govt" since you agree with bw so much.

by Ponniyin Selvan Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:23 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

Don't delude yourself.

Well, In 1905 not many britishers would have thought India would be an independent country in 50 years time and if some one remarked so, he would have been called as delusional.

Even India is just a 60+ year project, we cannot say for sure the geographical boundaries are going to be the same 60 years from now..

by Guest Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:31 pm

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

Don't delude yourself.

Well, In 1905 not many britishers would have thought India would be an independent country in 50 years time and if some one remarked so, he would have been called as delusional.

Even India is just a 60+ year project, we cannot say for sure the geographical boundaries are going to be the same 60 years from now..

So this Tamil Eelam thing, is it going to have its borders extended from India?

by Rishi Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:31 pm

BW,

It is not just material reasons alone desis want to be here in the United States.

Imagine the lfe of an unmarried women in India.
I know quite a few unmarried desi women who would rather sweep floors and live in America than go back home.

In fact I know such woman. She cleans houses for a living. She studied medicine in India.

by confuzzled dude Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:32 pm

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

When is US Govt. going to shed a tear or two for Martyr Prabhakaran.

by Ponniyin Selvan Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:37 pm

Kinnera wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/fury-in-sri-lanka-at-u-s-embassy-tweet-on-killing-of-tamils/

Good that US supports the position of Sri lankan Tamils. This should be the first step in the long sequence of steps to recognize Tamil Eelam.

Max,

I don't think you have to spend time trying to convince folks who cannot be convinced. It is a waste of time.

Don't delude yourself.

Well, In 1905 not many britishers would have thought India would be an independent country in 50 years time and if some one remarked so, he would have been called as delusional.

Even India is just a 60+ year project, we cannot say for sure the geographical boundaries are going to be the same 60 years from now..

So this Tamil Eelam thing, is it going to have its borders extended from India?

Who knows, maybe or maybe not.. Did you think 10 years back that borders of Andhra would exclude Hyderabad in the near future ?.

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