t bill passed under parliament blackout

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:10 am

http://m.ndtv.com/article/cheat-sheet/telangana-bill-passed-in-lok-sabha-amid-tv-blackout-484999
not much to say. Congress did "oops I did it again".
Seemandhra is now sent into political impotence andeconomic obscurity.
Sonia and rahul will not be forgiven in seemandhra.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:54 am

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/telangana-bill-passed-in-lok-sabha-by-voice-vote-no-live-telecast/309939?hp&livevideo-featured

Democracy or dictatorship?

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:31 am

In the end, it was a high-level, undemocratic, compromise between the [url=http://www.livemint.com/Search/Link/Keyword/Manmohan Singh]Manmohan Singh[/url] government and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that ensured the passage of the Bill. In the bargain, all democratic procedures, including a careful debate, were trampled. The blackout of proceedings in the Lok Sabha was just a small part of it all.
The truth is that Telangana was an issue that caught India’s political class in a bind. By a series of blundering steps—beginning with Union finance minister [url=http://www.livemint.com/Search/Link/Keyword/P. Chidambaram]P. Chidambaram[/url]’s 9 December 2009 statement in favour of Telangana down to the histrionics in New Delhi in the past one week—the two national parties, the Congress and the BJP, pushed themselves in a corner. At each step of this march towards folly, both parties tried to fine tune their calculations without sparing a thought about the consequences of such a divisive process.
The calculations were simple.
For the Congress, the allure of 17 Lok Sabha seats in the new province outweighed the future administrative and political consequences of creating a new state.
For the BJP, creating Telangana will obviate the need to address a painful issue if it forms the next government.

http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/vID3qmr4ZhSWhSx8zLUPiN/Telangana-an-undemocratic-division.html

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:58 am

Kinnera
T state is a difficult issue. But not impossible. The reason it became impossible is not because the state is divided but how it is done.
(A) Congress wanted to gain seats irrespective of consequences.
(B) Congress did not tdp or ysrc or bjp to share credit. So it refused to involve them in discussions. Bjp was approached only when they ran into brick wall.
(C) Congress imposed a solution on division process and did not. Accommodate even simple suggestions ad polavaram dam related issues.
Bjp as usual have no clue on andhra politics and suckered by Congress.
I personal would like to see a United state. But I understand the sentiments of middle class t people. However the division process did an irreperable damage to seemandhra.

by indophile Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:59 am

Eventually the division would have happened anyway. But the way in which it was done by the Central Govt leaves a bad aftertaste in that it shows cheap cleverness and mean intentions. See one comment (to the Hindu story) quoting the elephants story below.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-gears-to-push-tbill-bjp-unyielding/article5699320.ece?homepage=true

The referenced comment:

I am reminded of an old Indian story. A rich old man left his property to his children by stating that his eldest son get one half of his property; his second son get one third of his property, and the third son get one ninth of his property. The property consisted of seventeen elephants. The brothers consulted with the village elders and decided that the only way to satisfy the old manâ€™s will was to cut the elephants. When the king heard of this dilemma, he went to the village and donated his elephant to the old manâ€™s estate. The elders did the math and the three sons took nine, six, and two elephants and the unclaimed elephant went to the king. No elephant had to be cut. It did not cost the king an elephant.

In the Andhra Pradesh-Telangana imbroglio, the contention is about jobs, river waters, wealth, and prestige. A wise Centre would have addressed the issues in contention rather than indiscriminate cutting up of the state.
from: Som Karamchetty
Posted on: Feb 18, 2014 at 10:48 IST

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:06 am

Could they have divided the state in a more amicable way. Yes.
1. The Congress could have indicated that it is willing to concede t state.
2. It could have assembled a discussion of seemandhra leaders and t leaders for a discussion on division. This is different from asking if the state should be divided or not.
3. Seemandhra leaders have to be reasonable because t has many geographical advantages.
4. T area leaders must be given the direction that they cam get the state only if they reached a reasonable compromise with seemandhra leaders.
5. A national committee with bjp participation would have kept the discussions under control. The process should have taken 2 years.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:11 am

Ya, the whole thing was done with an eye on a few MP seats and with a higher ambition of making pappu the PM of India. No one cared about what's going to happen to the Seemandhra people.
17 MP is all that mattered to the congress. BJP has no clue about AP. It has nothing to lose there. It went along with cong so it doesn't have to deal with this mess if/when it comes to power.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:16 am

Indo
with your post.
Thinking that political non entities like shinde chidambaram jai ram ramesh and gulam nabi azad decided such complex issue is frustrating.
Not a single leader from seemandhra was involved in the discussions.
Sri Krishna committee report is completely ignored.
All andhra suggestions were rejected out of hand.

by indophile Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:16 am

And the discussions should have been between Seemandhra and Telangana leaders with a respected person as the moderator (and charged with a deadline), rather than non-Andhra/Telangana characters like TN guy Chidambaram, Karnataka guy Veerappa Moily, Kerala guy Antony. MP guy Diggy Singh, and Kashmiri guy Azad, calling the shots.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:19 am

Bjp may also face consequences. Neither ysrc or tdp may align with it before elections or even after elections. Those are the two parties expected to pick up all most all of Mp seats in seemandhra.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:34 am

7:05 pm: I am sorry to say this is more than even an Emergency: Mamata Banerjee on T-Bill passed in Lok Sabha.

7:01 pm: Lok Sabha TV blackout was not a technical glitch. It was a tactical glitch: Sushma Swaraj.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/parliament-disrupted-again-over-telangana-bill/1/344136.html

by indophile Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:02 am

Will Congress really succeed in Telangana in the coming elections, or will BJP steal their cake? Will Telangana really say "thank you" and do Mataji's bidding? What will happen to those great Andhra Kesaries like Kavuri, NTR's daughter, Chiranjeevi, Vundavalli, Chandrababu Naidu and others? Will they win anything?

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:08 am

indophile wrote:Will Congress really succeed in Telangana in the coming elections, or will BJP steal their cake? Will Telangana really say "thank you" and do Mataji's bidding? What will happen to those great Andhra Kesaries like Kavuri, NTR's daughter, Chiranjeevi, Vundavalli, Chandrababu Naidu and others? Will they win anything?

I hope a new party emerges. AP NGO's president Ashok babu refuses to enter politics, but i hope he does. CM Kiran may resign and launch his own party. I hope Ashok kumar and others who sincerely fought for SA will join the group and come to power. The last person I want to see as CM of SA is Jagan. Puke!

It would be fun if TRS supports bjp, not congress. I hope all those great Andhra Kesaries will lose their deposits and have no political future in SA. I am very disappointed with CBN. Shame on him!

by smArtha Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:23 am

truthbetold wrote:Could they have divided the state in a more amicable way. Yes.
1. The Congress could have indicated that it is willing to concede t state.
2. It could have assembled a discussion of seemandhra leaders and t leaders for a discussion on division. This is different from asking if the state should be divided or not.
3. Seemandhra leaders have to be reasonable because t has many geographical advantages.
4. T area leaders must be given the direction that they cam get the state only if they reached a reasonable compromise with seemandhra leaders.
5. A national committee with bjp participation would have kept the discussions under control. The process should have taken 2 years.

TBT - any such possibility was made impossible by the political leaders across the spectrum who were stupid enough to just keep harping on United AP. They were not willing to be party to any discussion about 'what if .. bifurcation'. So how long do the National Parties delay this thing. I haven't seen a single leader from SA side even submit something on the lines of .. if there is going to be a division what should be the concerns to be addressed - financial aid, tax holiday, capital and other infrastructure development, water distribution, resource sharing, job creation, educational and research institutes and opportunities, revenue attribution from hyderabad area etc. In a way the supporters of United Andhra are to be wholly blamed for the situation of SA now. I was hoping that at least when it became clear that centre started considering T-state as far back as in October, I expected some saner leaders to steer the discussion towards this instead of trying to stall the 'inevitable' bifurcation.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:47 am

Smartha
your facts are not factual. Seemandhra leaders did present their demands in various forums like gom meetings and in representations. jp presented a rather reasonable charter to pm and president.
So your conclusion is wrong since it is based on incorrect basis.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:48 am

Smartha
your facts are not factual. Seemandhra leaders did present their demands in various forums like gom meetings and in representations. jp presented a rather reasonable charter to pm and president.
So your conclusion is wrong since it is based on incorrect basis.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:12 am

Smarta, when the whole issue was done for political gains and not with an intent to resolve any issues, where's the scope for a sane discussion? The bifurcation was announced on dec 9th, 09 *before* a commission was deployed to look into the so called 'grievances'. Sri Krishna commission did an impartial job, gave the ground realities of the 'grievances', made some recommendations and all. Was the center or the T leaders interested in looking into those? NO! SA leaders went hoarse bringing up Sri Krishna report. All that the center and the T leaders wanted was the state's bifurcation (as if that's a required thing to do and the only option that is there) and holding onto hyderabad and nothing less than that. The emotions were running high. Where was the scope for a calm discussion?

Why couldn't the center hold an impartial discussion on the Sri Krishna commission's report with both the parties?

by Propagandhi711 Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:14 pm

good riddance. now hopefully business will resume as usual and dont have to hear the retarded telangana telugu spoken by uneducated douches on the news channels

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:22 pm

It is good that the drama is finally over. I agree with Propa - now the people of AP can have a sigh of relief, stop investing in Hyderabad, develop their own region AND start speaking proper Telugu.

Hopefully, they will bring down the statues of Gandui family members littered across AP, get rid of High-Command' ars-licking CONmen and start a political party that takes care of regional interests. May be they can learn a thing or two from Annadurai, et al.

by smArtha Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:12 pm

truthbetold wrote:Smartha
your facts are not factual. Seemandhra leaders did present their demands in various forums like gom meetings and in representations. jp presented a rather reasonable charter to pm and president.
So your conclusion is wrong since it is based on incorrect basis.

Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader has to do it in individual capacity or small groups. Why are they not publicized and people educated about them. I can bet that none, save probably JP, had analysed the impact comprehensively enough. All the other leaders were trying to present a case that suited their personal interests (investments in Hyd) or political interests in their region/constituency. This includes YSJ and CBN too. What was CBN doing all those months instead of working out the details of what he meant by 'samanyAyam' in very objective, legally binding and enforceable terms? Couldn't they all come together, at least within a party, draft such conditions for separation and build up the mass and political support towards the same. Were they such idiots that the Party which had narrow self-interest in promoting their dynastic leader will magically do it? What sort of game plan is that? And same with the NGOs/Employees and masses.. they were just hoping that 'justice' will be 'somehow' delivered. If the SA leaders are opportunistic and self-serving and employees/masses narrow minded and easily swayed by emotional United AP slogans instead of rationale and objectivity.. can they blame the T-side? The irony of this entire episode is those that are championing/supporting a United AP are the root cause for SA ending up with a bad deal post bifurcation and these are the ones that people will reward now. And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:23 pm

smArtha wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Smartha
your facts are not factual. Seemandhra leaders did present their demands in various forums like gom meetings and in representations. jp presented a rather reasonable charter to pm and president.
So your conclusion is wrong since it is based on incorrect basis.

Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader has to do it in individual capacity or small groups. Why are they not publicized and people educated about them. I can bet that none, save probably JP, had analysed the impact comprehensively enough. All the other leaders were trying to present a case that suited their personal interests (investments in Hyd) or political interests in their region/constituency. This includes YSJ and CBN too. What was CBN doing all those months instead of working out the details of what he meant by 'samanyAyam' in very objective, legally binding and enforceable terms? Couldn't they all come together, at least within a party, draft such conditions for separation and build up the mass and political support towards the same. Were they such idiots that the Party which had narrow self-interest in promoting their dynastic leader will magically do it? What sort of game plan is that? And same with the NGOs/Employees and masses.. they were just hoping that 'justice' will be 'somehow' delivered. If the SA leaders are opportunistic and self-serving and employees/masses narrow minded and easily swayed by emotional United AP slogans instead of rationale and objectivity.. can they blame the T-side? The irony of this entire episode is those that are championing/supporting a United AP are the root cause for SA ending up with a bad deal post bifurcation and these are the ones that people will reward now. And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

looking back at the mess, this would have been a golden opportunity for TDP to make another 1984 like run, atleast in seemandhra. instead the douche wasted it all

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:37 pm

It is not clear what the 38 amendments in the bill are. Did they include a financial package for AP? Did they include some educational institutes, etc.? I understand that the villages to be submerged under Polavaram are shifted to AP. How about Bhadrachalam? It used to be in E Godavari.

While the future of AP is uncertain, what bout Hyderabad? Will people of AP gradually move out and invest in their home towns?

by southindian Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:47 pm

Welcome to TELANGANA.

T gultis are requested to ready for update to their overseas address.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:53 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:It is not clear what the 38 amendments in the bill are. Did they include a financial package for AP? Did they include some educational institutes, etc.? I understand that the villages to be submerged under Polavaram are shifted to AP. How about Bhadrachalam? It used to be in E Godavari.

While the future of AP is uncertain, what bout Hyderabad? Will people of AP gradually move out and invest in their home towns?

Sandilya garu
Original bill was passed without amendments. 38 amendments were made by trinamool and mim. All were rejected by voice vote. Bjp voted for the bill. Total speeches took like 20 minutes and voting took an hours time.

Bjp's e plantation is that all its suggestions will be moved in the upper house.

by b_A Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:01 pm

Interesting thing is there is not too much celebrations in T or too much demos and agitations in SA. Newspapers are showing pictures of just a bunch of students and party workers. I guess the ordinary people got fed up and are ready to move on.

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:09 pm

smArtha wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Smartha
your facts are not factual. Seemandhra leaders did present their demands in various forums like gom meetings and in representations. jp presented a rather reasonable charter to pm and president.
So your conclusion is wrong since it is based on incorrect basis.

Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader has to do it in individual capacity or small groups. Why are they not publicized and people educated about them. I can bet that none, save probably JP, had analysed the impact comprehensively enough. All the other leaders were trying to present a case that suited their personal interests (investments in Hyd) or political interests in their region/constituency. This includes YSJ and CBN too. What was CBN doing all those months instead of working out the details of what he meant by 'samanyAyam' in very objective, legally binding and enforceable terms? Couldn't they all come together, at least within a party, draft such conditions for separation and build up the mass and political support towards the same. Were they such idiots that the Party which had narrow self-interest in promoting their dynastic leader will magically do it? What sort of game plan is that? And same with the NGOs/Employees and masses.. they were just hoping that 'justice' will be 'somehow' delivered. If the SA leaders are opportunistic and self-serving and employees/masses narrow minded and easily swayed by emotional United AP slogans instead of rationale and objectivity.. can they blame the T-side? The irony of this entire episode is those that are championing/supporting a United AP are the root cause for SA ending up with a bad deal post bifurcation and these are the ones that people will reward now. And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

What! what! what! Didn't he ask for 400 lakh crores or something to build a new state capital, if memory serves me right, he was hailed as a hero on SuCH for that.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:14 pm

[quote="smArtha"]

truthbetold wrote:Smartha
Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader....
... And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

Smartha
Your rant is ill timed. If you want to make the point that jagan cbn kiran reddy kavuri undavalli failed in their job, you will not get much of an argument from most such posters (however I cannot speak for Cd).
But the question on the table is the undemocratic, secretive, manipulative and illegal process used in the t bill process.
that responsibility lies at the head of Sonia and Congress. Bjp talked a big game but failed the people at the most important time.

Bjp may stall t bill in upper house with disputes on amendments. However a bill that is tabled in upper house can survive lok sabha elections. Bjp could come back and complete t bill process and claim that it helped t state formation

All representations made to govt and Congress leaders were published in detail in various vernacular papers. They were available on the net also..

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm

This reminds me of two sayings 1. "what goes around comes around", SA politicians behaved in undemocratic manner both in Assembly and LS. 2. "you get what you deserve", SA leaders never represented the people that elected them, they were always looking after for their vested interests, so why blame Congress or Sonia. I feel very sad for Seemandhra prajalu, at the end of the day they were robbed off their democratic rights because of their leaders incompetence/greed.

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:21 pm

truthbetold wrote:
smArtha wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Smartha
Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader....
... And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

Smartha
Your rant is ill timed. If you want to make the point that jagan cbn kiran reddy kavuri undavalli failed in their job, you will not get much of an argument from most such posters (however I cannot speak for Cd).
But the question on the table is the undemocratic, secretive, manipulative and illegal process used in the t bill process.
that responsibility lies at the head of Sonia and Congress. Bjp talked a big game but failed the people at the most important time.

Bjp may stall t bill in upper house with disputes on amendments. However a bill that is tabled in upper house can survive lok sabha elections. Bjp could come back and complete t bill process and claim that it helped t state formation

All representations made to govt and Congress leaders were published in detail in various vernacular papers. They were available on the net also..

What's new.

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:29 pm

truthbetold wrote:
smArtha wrote:
truthbetold wrote:Smartha
Are these presentations supposed to be some private and confidential affair that each SA leader....
... And from that sense SA deserves to get a raw deal for not fighting to secure objective and accomplish-able goals.

Smartha
Your rant is ill timed. If you want to make the point that jagan cbn kiran reddy kavuri undavalli failed in their job, you will not get much of an argument from most such posters (however I cannot speak for Cd).
But the question on the table is the undemocratic, secretive, manipulative and illegal process used in the t bill process.
that responsibility lies at the head of Sonia and Congress. Bjp talked a big game but failed the people at the most important time.

Bjp may stall t bill in upper house with disputes on amendments. However a bill that is tabled in upper house can survive lok sabha elections. Bjp could come back and complete t bill process and claim that it helped t state formation

All representations made to govt and Congress leaders were published in detail in various vernacular papers. They were available on the net also..

I know that traitor CD.. refuses to partake in TDP bhajanalu :PWe shall continue to brand him as Jagan supporter & accuse him of kowtowing corruption, though he never openly stated his support.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:37 pm

[quote="confuzzled dude"sA leaders never represented the people that elected them, they were always looking after for their vested interests, so why blame Congress or Sonia. [/quote]

Cd
Do you have examples of any Congress leader from t area who represents people? Let me give you a wider choice. Show me an elected Congress representative who represents people? May be kamal. Nath or moiley or shinde or unelected chidambaram may be or rahul or ashok chavan. Please tell us.

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:42 pm

Cd
Looks like I hit a soft spot. Take it easy. Just some friendly jabbing.

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:44 pm

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Will people of AP gradually move out

Why would they do that?

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote: and invest in their home towns?

How would they do that? Are they going to be offered jobs that pay them twice as much if they moved back?

by confuzzled dude Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:03 pm

truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:sA leaders never represented the people that elected them, they were always looking after for their vested interests, so why blame Congress or Sonia.
Cd
Do you have examples of any Congress leader from t area who represents people? Let me give you a wider choice. Show me an elected Congress representative who represents people? May be kamal. Nath or moiley or shinde or unelected chidambaram may be or rahul or ashok chavan. Please tell us.

Well, they're about to accomplish what their people wanted, 'T' state. They were able to convince their party leaders better than SA politicos managed to do, why single out Congress? I said elected representatives, which includes leaders from all parties. Why were CBN & JP sitting on the fence?

by truthbetold Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:43 pm

Cd
In the corrupt Indian politics convincing a selfish Sonia is proof of democracy?
Go ahead and show me representatives who are any different from sa mps?
we all know they are all corrupt and selfish.
Why were cbn & jp sitting on fence?
Last time I called cbn I forgot to ask this question. I will call him soon to get to the root of the problem.
Jp was clear in his stand. He was roughed up by jagan suppporters for supporting t state. He stood by his beliefs. He will be rewarded with a defeat in elections.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:50 pm

truthbetold wrote:http://m.ndtv.com/article/cheat-sheet/telangana-bill-passed-in-lok-sabha-amid-tv-blackout-484999
not much to say. Congress did "oops I did it again".
Seemandhra is now sent into political impotence andeconomic obscurity.
Sonia and rahul will not be forgiven in seemandhra.

Congress and BJP are two sides of the same coin - just proved. Not sure who gained by this sudden act - only the bad relations between the Telengans and the Andhrans to start with.

Bad precedent...very bad one...just when you thought Congress could not do any worse...

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