are indian muslims treated like blacks.in america?

by truthbetold Fri May 09, 2014 7:22 pm

This pearl of wisdom is found on such.

Who believes this statement to be true? If yes, help us understand how with some examples?

If not true, some introspection is required.

by Hellsangel Fri May 09, 2014 7:24 pm

Nah! That is just Comrade trying his skills as spinmeister.

by truthbetold Fri May 09, 2014 7:36 pm

This is reaching beyond spin. This is more like Goebbels propaganda.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri May 09, 2014 7:37 pm

truthbetold wrote:This is reaching beyond spin. This is more like Goebbels propaganda.

mr.godwin strikes again! and this early in the thread!

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 7:41 pm

Hellsangel wrote:Nah! That is just Comrade trying his skills as spinmeister.

Why are you blaming me, I aint the one that started this; who brought blacks into the discussion?

by Hellsangel Fri May 09, 2014 7:41 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:This is reaching beyond spin. This is more like Goebbels propaganda.

mr.godwin strikes again! and this early in the thread!

Mr Godwin struck again and again thanks to Modi detractors.

by Guest Fri May 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Blacks were kidnapped and brought to this country as slaves. Muslims invaded and ruled india. At no point in history or the current scenario did muslims of India face the hardship of american blacks. I don't understand how anyone can conceive that idea to even make that statement.

by truthbetold Fri May 09, 2014 7:51 pm

Kinnera wrote:Blacks were kidnapped and brought to this country as slaves. Muslims invaded and ruled india. At no point in history or the current scenario did muslims of India face the hardship of american blacks. I don't understand how anyone can conceive that idea to even make that statement.

What possible examples can one find to support this statement?
If one realizes this is a mistake, one should do some introspection.

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 8:33 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Kinnera wrote:Blacks were kidnapped and brought to this country as slaves. Muslims invaded and ruled india. At no point in history or the current scenario did muslims of India face the hardship of american blacks. I don't understand how anyone can conceive that idea to even make that statement.

What possible examples can one find to support this statement?
If one realizes this is a mistake, one should do some introspection.

TBT, that was a question not a statement. I'm assuming you misread it, go back and read that post again.

by bw Fri May 09, 2014 9:23 pm

truthbetold wrote:This pearl of wisdom is found on such.

Who believes this statement to be true? If yes, help us understand how with some examples?

If not true, some introspection is required.

who said this? why not just post the link? i can solve cryptic clues but not cryptic posts. Crying or Very sad

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 11:04 pm

-> They might not have been treated as bad as the blacks but their social & financial status appear to be not much different.. and shockingly this has got nothing to do with their book

"Discrimination in India against Muslims is holding back Islamic children from participating in the country’s growing economy. The Times of India reported that human rights activist Harsh Mander appeared at a conference at the Muslim Children's Issues and Right to Education workshop at Maulana Azad National Urdu University (MANUU) in Hyderabad last month to discuss the low enrollment and school retention rates of Muslim youth in the country. He lamented the existence of a “self-fulfilling prophecy” that keeps many Muslims uneducated and trapped in poverty."

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 11:08 pm

"Some Muslims are taking matters into their own hands. The Indian Express reported on a woman named Rehana Sultana, who started a school for dropout girls in the Dabeerpura area of Hyderabad. Founder of the Glorious Deccan Education Society, director at the Center for Women’s Studies at MANUU and president of the Civil Liberties Monitoring Committee, Sultana, 58, explained what motivated her activism in the 1970s and led her to found the school for girls in 1980.

Sultana said she used most of her dowry and proceeds from the sale of her own house to finance construction of the school. She received much assistance from a high-caste Hindu man named Digambar Rao in her school project. "He helped me a lot in convincing the parents, but I did feel a bit threatened in my community as I was working with a traditional Brahmin,” she said. “Over time, we were able to bring about what we set to do -- bring communal and social harmony through ... school activities.” "

by Kris Fri May 09, 2014 11:17 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:-> They might not have been treated as bad as the blacks but their social & financial status appear to be not much different.. and shockingly this has got nothing to do with their book

"Discrimination in India against Muslims is holding back Islamic children from participating in the country’s growing economy. The Times of India reported that human rights activist Harsh Mander appeared at a conference at the Muslim Children's Issues and Right to Education workshop at Maulana Azad National Urdu University (MANUU) in Hyderabad last month to discuss the low enrollment and school retention rates of Muslim youth in the country. He lamented the existence of a “self-fulfilling prophecy” that keeps many Muslims uneducated and trapped in poverty."

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601

>>>There seem to be self- contradicting themes here. There is the theme of discrimination keeping muslims back, followed by the theory that they may be trapped in poverty and undereducated due to a self-fulfilling prophecy and finally, other minorities are shown as being higher on the economic totem pole, with hindus falling somewhere in between. What are we to make of this?

by Kris Fri May 09, 2014 11:29 pm

truthbetold wrote:This pearl of wisdom is found on such.

Who believes this statement to be true? If yes, help us understand how with some examples?

If not true, some introspection is required.

>>>Wait. I just realized the question could mean whether America treats Indian Muslims like it does Blacks. If that is the question, we are having a discussion in this thread that is way off base. Smile

P.S. I don't know the answer to the question though.

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 11:41 pm

Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:-> They might not have been treated as bad as the blacks but their social & financial status appear to be not much different.. and shockingly this has got nothing to do with their book

"Discrimination in India against Muslims is holding back Islamic children from participating in the country’s growing economy. The Times of India reported that human rights activist Harsh Mander appeared at a conference at the Muslim Children's Issues and Right to Education workshop at Maulana Azad National Urdu University (MANUU) in Hyderabad last month to discuss the low enrollment and school retention rates of Muslim youth in the country. He lamented the existence of a “self-fulfilling prophecy” that keeps many Muslims uneducated and trapped in poverty."

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601
>>>There seem to be self- contradicting themes here. There is the theme of discrimination keeping muslims back, followed by the theory that they may be trapped in poverty and undereducated due to a self-fulfilling prophecy and finally, other minorities are shown as being higher on the economic totem pole, with hindus falling somewhere in between. What are we to make of this?

-> I'm not sure about the connection I thought those are two different pieces put together in that column. However, from my personal observation (since the article mostly about Hyd muslims), they don't attend or drop out of schools because of their poverty and a good chunk of them of really poor and discrimination does exist with hiring muslims.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Fri May 09, 2014 11:51 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601

If they drop the Koran and the bomb from their hands, they will automatically progress.

by confuzzled dude Fri May 09, 2014 11:57 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601

If they drop the Koran and the bomb from their hands, they will automatically progress.

That's profound. Hope you realize that middle class & better are more religious & insular than the poor.

by Kris Sat May 10, 2014 12:02 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Kris wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:-> They might not have been treated as bad as the blacks but their social & financial status appear to be not much different.. and shockingly this has got nothing to do with their book

"Discrimination in India against Muslims is holding back Islamic children from participating in the country’s growing economy. The Times of India reported that human rights activist Harsh Mander appeared at a conference at the Muslim Children's Issues and Right to Education workshop at Maulana Azad National Urdu University (MANUU) in Hyderabad last month to discuss the low enrollment and school retention rates of Muslim youth in the country. He lamented the existence of a “self-fulfilling prophecy” that keeps many Muslims uneducated and trapped in poverty."

"India’s Muslims have the lowest living standard in the country on a per capita basis, said a government survey. According to data from Pew Research, Muslims spend, on average, only 32.7 rupees ($0.53) per day. At the other end of the wealth spectrum, on average, India’s tiny minority of Sikhs spend 55.3 rupees per day. Christians (51.4 rupees) and Hindus (37.5 rupees) fall somewhere in-between.

http://www.ibtimes.com/indian-muslims-need-greater-access-education-avoid-poverty-social-exclusion-1561601
>>>There seem to be self- contradicting themes here. There is the theme of discrimination keeping muslims back, followed by the theory that they may be trapped in poverty and undereducated due to a self-fulfilling prophecy and finally, other minorities are shown as being higher on the economic totem pole, with hindus falling somewhere in between. What are we to make of this?
-> I'm not sure about the connection I thought those are two different pieces put together in that column. However, from my personal observation (since the article mostly about Hyd muslims), they don't attend or drop out of schools because of their poverty and a good chunk of them of really poor.

>>Ok, I didn't go to the link and was just commenting on what was posted. In going back to the original question, black folks in the US have been held down to heavy past discrimination, but that has become a vicious cycle now. In many inner cities, schooling is considered uncool. In India, there could be other dynamics. I doubt that the "high caste" (for want of a better word) Muslims are affected adversely by this and those lower on the totem pole may not be all that different from their Hindu counter parts. The danger is this can be fertile soil for the fundamentalists to sow their seeds. I have also seen a marked contrast between upper middle class Pakistanis and lower middle class Pakistanis on this which translates to their overall outlook on various things. Of course, since my sample size has been very small, its just an observation.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat May 10, 2014 12:07 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

If they drop the Koran and the bomb from their hands, they will automatically progress.

That's profound. Hope you realize that middle class & better are more religious & insular than the poor.

middle class may be religious but the poor muslims are fanatics and Friday Kaboomers.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat May 10, 2014 5:22 am

most of the saudi and egyptian nationals including migammad atta were from upper middle class families.

by truthbetold Sat May 10, 2014 5:59 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Kinnera wrote:Blacks were kidnapped and brought to this country as slaves. Muslims invaded and ruled india. At no point in history or the current scenario did muslims of India face the hardship of american blacks. I don't understand how anyone can conceive that idea to even make that statement.

What possible examples can one find to support this statement?
If one realizes this is a mistake, one should do some introspection.
TBT, that was a question not a statement. I'm assuming you misread it, go back and read that post again.

CD
If you say it is a question, I am not going to dispute that. Since it is your question, is there any credibility to such a formulation?

by confuzzled dude Sat May 10, 2014 9:17 am

truthbetold wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Kinnera wrote:Blacks were kidnapped and brought to this country as slaves. Muslims invaded and ruled india. At no point in history or the current scenario did muslims of India face the hardship of american blacks. I don't understand how anyone can conceive that idea to even make that statement.

What possible examples can one find to support this statement?
If one realizes this is a mistake, one should do some introspection.
TBT, that was a question not a statement. I'm assuming you misread it, go back and read that post again.
CD
If you say it is a question, I am not going to dispute that. Since it is your question, is there any credibility to such a formulation?

That's precisely what I want to know, check my response to Kinnera in the other thread where this was raised.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat May 10, 2014 9:28 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
CD
If you say it is a question, I am not going to dispute that. Since it is your question, is there any credibility to such a formulation?
That's precisely what I want to know, check my response to Kinnera in the other thread where this was raised.

Let us make one "Newtonian" fact clear:

Blacks - american or african are the most discriminated in the world by EVERY other race.

Muslims: Indians or Arabs are the most oppressive and disrespectful of all other races in the world

There are no ifs, ands or buts about this "factoid"

by confuzzled dude Sat May 10, 2014 9:33 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
CD
If you say it is a question, I am not going to dispute that. Since it is your question, is there any credibility to such a formulation?
That's precisely what I want to know, check my response to Kinnera in the other thread where this was raised.

Let us make one "Newtonian" fact clear:

Blacks - american or african are the most discriminated in the world by EVERY other race.

Muslims: Indians or Arabs are the most oppressive and disrespectful of all other races in the world

There are no ifs, ands or buts about this "factoid"

What about in India, Hindu race vs Muslim race. I think that's the debate TBT is interested in.

by ashdoc Sat May 10, 2014 6:22 pm

blacks in america haven't got a separate nation for themselves while muslims in india divided the country and got one for themselves---pakistan .

to make doubly sure that it remained pure muslim the hindus and sikhs were kicked out of pakistan by a pogrom of massacres .

and to make triply sure that muslims remain on the aggressive pakistan repeatedly has tried to destabilize india by terror strikes---to the point that the jehadis it harbours to attack india have found it easy to target pakistanis themselves rather than make the dangerous crossing of the border of india , and so pakistan has become a destabilised state itself .

and yet , it was founded by indian muslims---we must not forget that .

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