how is this as a starting solution?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:53 am

when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

by Guest Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:55 am

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-to-post-rapists-photos-online-to-name-and-shame-them-310413

by Merlot Daruwala Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:01 pm

All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

by Guest Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:08 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

That's the thing, they should think twice before they start doing such a thing. Other than major beating by the police in near future, I can't think of any other immediate deterrent for the time being, for this particular breed of criminals, who grew up with this kind of violence and mindset. Let the 'good' police be let loose on these people, with the support from the politicians. Maybe one year of that, and a lot will come under control.

For the long term fix, a lot has to be done. Socially, and legally.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:09 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Being an iSalamic apologist, it is no wonder you support rapists.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:21 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

The govt has already decided on that. But, as a news report pointed out, the number of rape convictions has come down steadily. This points to the paralysis of the judiciary, involvement of influential people, and threat towards the victims. Besides, unlike in US the "register" wont do much good in India, where even terrorists can mingle and live unnoticed among the public.

1. Treat Rape as a terrorism against women.

2. try all rape cases in fast-track courts - establish them in all tier-1 and tier-2 cities (with several in the capital of Rapistan).

3. create a totally independent enforcement agency to deal with rapes - this the political parties wont agree

4. transfer all existing rape cases - against all MLAs and politicos.

5. raise the level of punishment to 15 to 20 years if convicted.

6. It is an adult act. Try any juvenile as an adult for the purpose of rape.

7. Confiscate all properties of convicted rapists and award it to the victims.

8. Create safeguards against false accusations.

9. publish the rapists names.

by Rishi Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:28 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Posting the names of rapists and their photos is a form of campaign against rape. It will raise the awareness. It may not prevent any every single rape. But it will certainly reduce the number of rapes.

by Merlot Daruwala Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:37 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

That's the thing, they should think twice before they start doing such a thing. Other than major beating by the police in near future, I can't think of any other immediate deterrent for the time being, for this particular breed of criminals, who grew up with this kind of violence and mindset. Let the 'good' police be let loose on these people, with the support from the politicians. Maybe one year of that, and a lot will come under control.

For the long term fix, a lot has to be done. Socially, and legally.

Dear Ms Bagchi, this kind of a random and violent rape is actually quite unusual. Apparently, 95% of rapes are by men known to the victim, most often family members or friends. So it is not some "particular breed of criminals" but more likely the kindly-looking uncle whose hugs last a second longer than they should.

Current laws are actually quite stringent, with 10 years rigorous imprisonment being the standard sentence. But that hasn't deterred rapists. So I'm inclined to believe that rapists don't usually go about planning the deed. It is more of an opportunistic crime - a vulnerable woman and privacy being the only necessary conditions. Deadlier punishment or more cops on the street isn't going to bring down rapes. Only a fundamental change in men's view of women will accomplish that.

by Merlot Daruwala Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:38 pm

Rishi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Posting the names of rapists and their photos is a form of campaign against rape. It will raise the awareness. It may not prevent any every single rape. But it will certainly reduce the number of rapes.

Very true. Knowing that Ram Singh, a rapist, lives at 42, Katwaria Sarai, New Delhi, is definitely going to deter Laxman Singh from raping his niece in Okhla.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:41 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rishi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Posting the names of rapists and their photos is a form of campaign against rape. It will raise the awareness. It may not prevent any every single rape. But it will certainly reduce the number of rapes.

Very true. Knowing that Ram Singh, a rapist, lives at 42, Katwaria Sarai, New Delhi, is definitely going to deter Laxman Singh from raping his niece in Okhla.

MD this may seem very out of context, but here in the US home buyers nowadays routinely check such databases before purchasing a home. these things have measurable effects on property values for example. in essence it may not stop specific crimes, but may change societal attitudes about rape as a crime when it starts impacting pocketbooks. probably a bit far fetched for india at the moment but still...

by Guest Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

That's the thing, they should think twice before they start doing such a thing. Other than major beating by the police in near future, I can't think of any other immediate deterrent for the time being, for this particular breed of criminals, who grew up with this kind of violence and mindset. Let the 'good' police be let loose on these people, with the support from the politicians. Maybe one year of that, and a lot will come under control.

For the long term fix, a lot has to be done. Socially, and legally.

Dear Ms Bagchi, this kind of a random and violent rape is actually quite unusual. Apparently, 95% of rapes are by men known to the victim, most often family members or friends. So it is not some "particular breed of criminals" but more likely the kindly-looking uncle whose hugs last a second longer than they should.

Current laws are actually quite stringent, with 10 years rigorous imprisonment being the standard sentence. But that hasn't deterred rapists. So I'm inclined to believe that rapists don't usually go about planning the deed. It is more of an opportunistic crime - a vulnerable woman and privacy being the only necessary conditions. Deadlier punishment or more cops on the street isn't going to bring down rapes. Only a fundamental change in men's view of women will accomplish that.

way too many random rapes and kidnapping on delhi streets, done by strangers to strangers, simply because an opportunity arises. this is one of those crimes, that's happening quite a lot in delhi and around. that's what I am talking about.

This man ram singh, he did have a history of violence that everyone else ignored or covered. something makes me believe this was not his first rape either.

the other kind of familiar rapes, yeah that needs other kind of handling. the streets got to become safe first. that's the pressing need now.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rishi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Posting the names of rapists and their photos is a form of campaign against rape. It will raise the awareness. It may not prevent any every single rape. But it will certainly reduce the number of rapes.

Very true. Knowing that Ram Singh, a rapist, lives at 42, Katwaria Sarai, New Delhi, is definitely going to deter Laxman Singh from raping his niece in Okhla.

MD this may seem very out of context, but here in the US home buyers nowadays routinely check such databases before purchasing a home. these things have measurable effects on property values for example. in essence it may not stop specific crimes, but may change societal attitudes about rape as a crime when it starts impacting pocketbooks. probably a bit far fetched for india at the moment but still...

You are too americanized...and slowly losing touch with ground realities in Rapistan.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:59 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
the other kind of familiar rapes, yeah that needs other kind of handling. the streets got to become safe first. that's the pressing need now.

i don't know if merlot's statistics are correct, but if they are, nothing is going to help other than changing basic cultural values. it's a harsh message, but a correct one.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:59 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
Rishi wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:All these are good measures but I don't see how they will prevent rapes. Rarely is a rape a pre-meditated event where a to-be-rapist might also think of the consequences of being caught.

Posting the names of rapists and their photos is a form of campaign against rape. It will raise the awareness. It may not prevent any every single rape. But it will certainly reduce the number of rapes.

Very true. Knowing that Ram Singh, a rapist, lives at 42, Katwaria Sarai, New Delhi, is definitely going to deter Laxman Singh from raping his niece in Okhla.

MD this may seem very out of context, but here in the US home buyers nowadays routinely check such databases before purchasing a home. these things have measurable effects on property values for example. in essence it may not stop specific crimes, but may change societal attitudes about rape as a crime when it starts impacting pocketbooks. probably a bit far fetched for india at the moment but still...

You are too americanized...and slowly losing touch with ground realities in Rapistan.

probably true.

by Petrichor Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:05 pm

Merlot - while generally agreeing with your view for caution in dealing with rape (including burden of proof issues), you might want to address

- reported vs unreported cases of rape
- actual percentage of rapists who end up getting convicted in India
- length of time it takes to get convictions in India

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:18 am

atcg wrote:Merlot - while generally agreeing with your view for caution in dealing with rape (including burden of proof issues), you might want to address

- reported vs unreported cases of rape
- actual percentage of rapists who end up getting convicted in India
- length of time it takes to get convictions in India

These are the areas the media and the protesters should be highlighting, instead of booing Shiela Dikshit (Aside: First they said the pols are out of touch with young people. And when she responds by going over to Jantar Mantar, they boo her. What's with all the anger against her? She might be CM but has nothing to do with law and order in Delhi. It is controlled by an unelected Lt Governor, appointed by the Union Govt.)

The second and third issues in particular are something the government and courts need to (and can) fix urgently. The standards of evidence collection in India are abysmal. Forensic laboratories lack basic capabilities and are known for shoddy and sub-standard analyses. If not anything, the long drawn-out Aarushi murder case has highlighted how sloppily even a premier investigation agency like the CBI, builds up its prosecution cases.

And then there is a self-righteous judiciary, ever ready to point a finger at the executive, but which operates in some dilated time-warp, oblivious to the real world outside. One reason why conviction rates are abysmal in India is that the trials take so long, the witnesses and even the victims lose interest at some time. Everyone wants to move on in life and not dwell on some unhappy event from long ago.

The first issue goes back to basic attitudes towards chastity and shame in this country. Victims of rape or even plain old sexual harassment go through much more humiliation after the event in a society which views them as damaged goods and even questions their role in inviting the molester's attentions in the first place. Why, even that paragon of human virtue, Rama himself could not believe that his wife might have been chaste despite the lengthy captivity under another man.

by artood2 Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:30 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

I assume this requires the rapists to be convicted of the crime first. The problem lies in low conviction rates and the tendency of blaming it on the victim. OTOH, neither the name nor the address is unchangable in India.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:05 am

[quote="Merlot Daruwala"]

atcg wrote:
The second and third issues in particular are something the government and courts need to (and can) fix urgently. The standards of evidence collection in India are abysmal. Forensic laboratories lack basic capabilities and are known for shoddy and sub-standard analyses. If not anything, the long drawn-out Aarushi murder case has highlighted how sloppily even a premier investigation agency like the CBI, builds up its prosecution cases.

Didn't mean to derail the main topic but India is not alone here Thousands of criminal cases at the state and local level may have relied on exaggerated testimony or false forensic evidence to convict defendants of murder, rape and other felonies.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:56 am

[quote="confuzzled dude"]

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
atcg wrote:
The second and third issues in particular are something the government and courts need to (and can) fix urgently. The standards of evidence collection in India are abysmal. Forensic laboratories lack basic capabilities and are known for shoddy and sub-standard analyses. If not anything, the long drawn-out Aarushi murder case has highlighted how sloppily even a premier investigation agency like the CBI, builds up its prosecution cases.

Didn't mean to derail the main topic but India is not alone here Thousands of criminal cases at the state and local level may have relied on exaggerated testimony or false forensic evidence to convict defendants of murder, rape and other felonies.

In any case, any certificate can be "bought" in India through bribe and influence.

Just look at how the Govt...moved the rape girl to Singapore to divert attention, and once dead, brought her body in the middle of the night by a Govt Charter lane, received by Sonia mata, and quickly cremated early morning in the presence of ministers and other criminal chamchas - who were all worried about their own skin.

Now, that the woman is gone the memory will fade in 2 weeks...

and India will back again to the same old Rape culture.

Not much can change in Indian corrupt political, police, and judiciary....it is just too deep, and it is drilled from the top.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:52 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Not much can change in Indian corrupt political, police, and judiciary....it is just too deep, and it is drilled from the top.

I was thinking along the same lines, we can only hope that technological evolutions & the next generation of India will help curtail this menace.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:27 am

I must say i am touched by the concern of some posters for the poor rapists who may not get their chance to present their case for rape. Now that india dowry laws are causing immense pain to all indian males one has to be extremely careful about changing laws against rape.
let us make sure india discusses these laws to death so that it is a perfect law. It is ok in the process the new laws get killed or watered down to uselessness. What is the harm? It will be like just another day and some more suffering.
oh during those discussions, be nice to sheela dixit even though she never did anything as cm, she has to be excused because her own party lt governor was responsible for law and order and did nothing useful.
what a bleeding heart, even it bleeds for poor men, incopetent police and corrupt politicians.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:14 am

truthbetold wrote:I must say i am touched by the concern of some posters for the poor rapists who may not get their chance to present their case for rape.

see this is where the discussion usually turns nonsensical. i assume here that everyone wants india to be a modern democracy with all that it entails. if so, then why is an expression of concern for due process taken as concern for the rapists? why the utterly idiotic and baseless claim that those who express such concern have bleeding hearts for folks who are beneath contempt?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:28 am

why bother having a trial at all? let's just shave their heads, feather and tar them, parade them on a donkey through town, and take them and shoot them in a public place with their hands tied behind their back, taliban style.

by Guest Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:10 am

I was called for jury duty (I opted out of it) last year. It was the case of a minor girl being raped by her cousin. A wide range of serious charges were leveled against the defendant like rape, sodomy, incest, molestation etc. The incident happened 8 months ago. The police seemed to have gathered all the evidence and made a strong case. The jury selections were done on a Friday. The judge said the hearings would start on Monday the next week and continued until Thursday and the verdict by the jury given on Thursday. That's it!

Why do court cases go on for yrs and yrs in India? There was this unfinished home at the back of my parents' home back in India which fell into legal issues in 1975 (the plot was in the guy's dead wife's name. The guy tried to build a home on it and prolly wanted to gift it to one of his daughters. The other sons-in-law laid claim to it). Nothing has been resolved so far, even after almost 37 yrs! The guy is long dead. The unfinished walls lay in ruins. The plot must be worth a couple of crores now, but no one to claim or use it. Such is the state of justice system in India.

Imagine how tiring, frustrating and humiliating it would be if rape/sexual assault cases go on forever! Justice delayed is justice not served.

I heard that it's easy to adjourn the case again and again (in order to prolong it further) by the defendant by not turning up on the days of the court hearing. Something has to be done to avoid such things and speed up the delivery of justice. Fast tracking doesn't mean not hearing the case well. It's taking care of avoiding the delays.

by Merlot Daruwala Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:24 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:I must say i am touched by the concern of some posters for the poor rapists who may not get their chance to present their case for rape.

see this is where the discussion usually turns nonsensical. i assume here that everyone wants india to be a modern democracy with all that it entails.

Oh no saar. That's too complex an idea. Much easier to remain ignorant cheerleaders of the crowds, baying for the police commissioner's head, no matter the cops nabbed the rapists in 2 days flat. Demanding Dikshit's head just because. After all, one can never go wrong hailing those infallible crowds aka essence of democracy. We desi rednecks won't be fooled by the sophistry of you sly liberals, no saar, no way.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:13 pm

Max,
Discussions do not turn nonsensical when people's genuine outrage against rape is described as an orgy of bottom pinching. It is a sensible discussion when merlot claims it is hooliganism to protest the presence of incompetent dixit at a mourning cermony.

Indian women face an assymetrical situation where brutal physical power, deep cultural
rot, political support for thuggish elements, police incompetency, and indian middle class impotency to protect its own female are all arrayed against them.
Frankly the cry for revenge and blood is just a spur of the moment angry expression in an atmosphere of despair and disbelief in any type of political establishment.
No law has been taken up and it is very likely the final result will be a watered down law or it will be ineffectively implemented.
So the little power that indian nation has should be focused on the real issue of protecting bigger issue of role of women and safety of all women.

by Petrichor Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:37 pm

There are sitting MLA's and MP's with rape cases against them. I am surprised they got elected in the first place; surprised that even after charges are framed against them, the parties felt comfortable enough to dismiss these allegations and put their stamp of imprimatur on these candidates. I am surprised the victims do not speak out on behalf of the opposing candidates and raise a stink enough to sway the votes.

A failure of Police, Judiciary, Political Parties, Investigative Journalists, and finally a society called India.

by Guest Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:45 pm

atcg wrote:There are sitting MLA's and MP's with rape cases against them. I am surprised they got elected in the first place; surprised that even after charges are framed against them, the parties felt comfortable enough to dismiss these allegations and put their stamp of imprimatur on these candidates. I am surprised the victims do not speak out on behalf of the opposing candidates and raise a stink enough to sway the votes.

A failure of Police, Judiciary, Political Parties, Investigative Journalists, and finally a society called India.

Here's what I got on FB:

42 MLAs have declared charges of crimes against women
2 MPs with similar credentials, strut around the hallowed portals of the Lok Sabha
260 candidates with similar charges were given tickets to contest
assembly elections in the last 5 years – Independents [72], INC [26],
BJP [26], BSP [18] and SP [16] were the usual suspects.
40 candidates with similar charges were given tickets to contest the Lok Sabha elections in 2009.

What a shame! No wonder the callous statements, attitude and behavior of our politicians! The inmates at Tihar seem better than them.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:46 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:I must say i am touched by the concern of some posters for the poor rapists who may not get their chance to present their case for rape.

see this is where the discussion usually turns nonsensical. i assume here that everyone wants india to be a modern democracy with all that it entails.

Oh no saar. That's too complex an idea. Much easier to remain ignorant cheerleaders of the crowds, baying for the police commissioner's head, no matter the cops nabbed the rapists in 2 days flat. Demanding Dikshit's head just because. After all, one can never go wrong hailing those infallible crowds aka essence of democracy. We desi rednecks won't be fooled by the sophistry of you sly liberals, no saar, no way.

What you and MAX are suggesting are ideal methods where the society is quite matured and "evolved" Your approach did not exist in the US or the Western World (which is the basis for your suggestions) some 50 years ago. India's development and societal maturity is equivalent of the Western world's culture in the 40s and 50s. To apply the 21st century judicial approach to the mid-20th century culture in India is bound to be a failure.

For example, how long does it take to complete a case in India? The criminals love to go to court bcz they know they can get anticipatory bail and drag the case on forever. All developments need to go hand in hand. Judicial reforms must be put in place, wherein a case is heard and closed within 3 to 6 months. Until that time applying western guidelines to everything else will only skew the system further towards the criminals.

Indian "Fast-track" courts are equivalent of the "regular" courts in the West. These are NOT military courts. Fast-track courts have limited postponement, excuses, and allow minimal interruptions from the accused. In fact those guidelines should be adapted with immediate effect for all regular courts - for a start. It is a shame that JJ, MK, Laloo cases run forever and ever with no one really having any faith in the system. Imagine the mindset of terrorists and other corrupt criminals.

by confuzzled dude Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:59 pm

truthbetold wrote:Max,
Discussions do not turn nonsensical when people's genuine outrage against rape is described as an orgy of bottom pinching. It is a sensible discussion when merlot claims it is hooliganism to protest the presence of incompetent dixit at a mourning cermony.

I think Merlot was being pragmatic, and he proved to be right about it. I don't think blaming Dixit or MMS or another leader isn't going to solve this issue. Shouting at the top your lungs for a couple of weeks may help in a particular instance( like this one) but aint a long term solution. It has to start from the grassroots level in an organized and sustained fashion than being emotional for a couple weeks and forgetting about it.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:07 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
What you and MAX are suggesting are ideal methods where the society is quite matured and "evolved" Your approach did not exist in the US or the Western World (which is the basis for your suggestions) some 50 years ago. India's development and societal maturity is equivalent of the Western world's culture in the 40s and 50s. To apply the 21st century judicial approach to the mid-20th century culture in India is bound to be a failure.

that is a pessimistic view and one that i do not share. what you're essentially saying is that india should not aspire to the ideals of its own constitution. there is no law of nature that suggests that democracies should mature at the same rate. we have all the trappings of a modern society -- cell phones, televisions, a largely free press, and increasingly digital access. all tools that are catalysts for much more rapid modernization. what is lacking is public will, one solo show of anger against an outrageous mangling of a woman notwithstanding. it is very doable. folks like raja rammohan roy succeeded in the 18th and 19th century for crying out loud! what is required besides govt action are more public discussions of the type the hindu organized.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:50 pm

Max,
merlot attempts to belittle. peoples protests are clear to all sensible posters on such forum. his deliberate diversions creating issues like bottom pinching are are examples.of.political crookeddness .

to reduce people's anguish to shouting at the top of lungs indicates ones snobery. ideal talk that is designed to confuse action is the bane of people's movement.

Indian political establishment is deaf and blind. it only listens to massive public demonstration of anger. mms and dixit are worst culprits in delhi's rape.culture as they were running the city for the last decade.

what is asked of govt is strong laws and active implementation of laws.

no one is naive to believe these laws are going to. mitigate Muslim and Hindu religious bias against women.

by southindian Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:57 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

The govt need to convict firsts and that should be its first focus.

1 out of 600+ convictions in Delhi so far, so you will only see 1 picture.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:00 pm

Thanks. You just gave me the tips for this response.

Mine is a pragmatic view while your is Utopian - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Cell phones, television, digital access are all there in Afghanistan and Iran as well, and relatively free press is there in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well... These are no biggies in the modern world.

raja Rammohan roystarted it and took 100 years for widows to have any chance of remarriage... and the rest of the principles are still cooking.. A state funeral would have provided the much needed impetus, and the govt itself calling country wide peace march would have brought the women's issues to the fore. That is what I have been saying.

You are calling for proper implementation of law and law enforcement - except you expect that from people and I expect them FIRST from the Government.

There is nothing wrong in India "aspiring" but first the govt should adhere to the spirit and letter of the constitution. Otherwise any aspiration will become simply fantasies.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:06 pm

South Indian,
that one out of 600 would a slum dwelling sc /st guy. bangaru. laxman was perhaps the only known politico ever convicted of corruption in india . he is a sc .

by Kris Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:53 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

>>>> I think the problem may be getting the conviction to begin with. I imagine half the politicos have a checkered past on this count.

by truthbetold Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:35 pm

Kris wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:when a person is convicted of a sexual crime (not just rape), how about the govt start publishing their name and address in the papers and maintain an internet database, just like they do in the US?

>>>> I think the problem may be getting the conviction to begin with. I imagine half the politicos have a checkered past on this count.

Kris,
you are generous with your proportions. It is close to 80 to 90% if you go beyond rape.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:05 am

truthbetold wrote:Max,
Discussions do not turn nonsensical when people's genuine outrage against rape is described as an orgy of bottom pinching. It is a sensible discussion when merlot claims it is hooliganism to protest the presence of incompetent dixit at a mourning cermony.

Indian women face an assymetrical situation where brutal physical power, deep cultural
rot, political support for thuggish elements, police incompetency, and indian middle class impotency to protect its own female are all arrayed against them.
Frankly the cry for revenge and blood is just a spur of the moment angry expression in an atmosphere of despair and disbelief in any type of political establishment.
No law has been taken up and it is very likely the final result will be a watered down law or it will be ineffectively implemented.
So the little power that indian nation has should be focused on the real issue of protecting bigger issue of role of women and safety of all women.

Thank you for this highly lucid and coherent analysis, complete with concrete, actionable policy prescriptions that will undoubtedly cut the incidence of rape in half. clap

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:12 am

truthbetold wrote:mms and dixit are worst culprits in delhi's rape.culture as they were running the city for the last decade.

hang.the culprits. castrate them.let us show the.power of democracy. accountability is.what is asked for here.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:37 am

Garibi Hatao!

by southindian Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:45 am

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Thanks. You just gave me the tips for this response.

Mine is a pragmatic view while your is Utopian - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Cell phones, television, digital access are all there in Afghanistan and Iran as well, and relatively free press is there in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well... These are no biggies in the modern world.

raja Rammohan roystarted it and took 100 years for widows to have any chance of remarriage... and the rest of the principles are still cooking.. A state funeral would have provided the much needed impetus, and the govt itself calling country wide peace march would have brought the women's issues to the fore. That is what I have been saying.

You are calling for proper implementation of law and law enforcement - except you expect that from people and I expect them FIRST from the Government.

There is nothing wrong in India "aspiring" but first the govt should adhere to the spirit and letter of the constitution. Otherwise any aspiration will become simply fantasies.

I agree. This government is in bed (literally) with many rapists and ant rape legislatures are not strong. Fortunately, the vote bank to capture here is 50% of Indian population, so I can see some traction in stringent laws "on paper".

by southindian Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:50 am

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote:mms and dixit are worst culprits in delhi's rape.culture as they were running the city for the last decade.

hang.the culprits. castrate them.let us show the.power of democracy. accountability is.what is asked for here.

I agree. Actually that's a good suggestion, even though said in snide.

Democracy does not mean a rapist cannot be hanged or castrated. Sure they can be hanged/castrated.

"Get the conviction first", is key.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:57 am

southindian wrote:
Merlot Daruwala wrote:
truthbetold wrote:mms and dixit are worst culprits in delhi's rape.culture as they were running the city for the last decade.

hang.the culprits. castrate them.let us show the.power of democracy. accountability is.what is asked for here.

I agree. Actually that's a good suggestion, even though said in snide.

Democracy does not mean a rapist cannot be hanged or castrated. Sure they can be hanged/castrated.

"Get the conviction first", is key.

Sir / Madam, you're mistaken about what you're agreeing with. I was referring to the worst culprits. Not the rapists.

by Merlot Daruwala Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:00 am

southindian wrote:I agree. This government is in bed (literally) with many rapists and ant rape legislatures are not strong. Fortunately, the vote bank to capture here is 50% of Indian population, so I can see some traction in stringent laws "on paper".

I agree even more. MMS and Shiela Dikshit were both elected by rapists and are pandering to the rapist vote-bank. Ant Rape legislatures like IPC are inadequate. We need shariah.

by southindian Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:55 am

Yes, you got that right too. Smile

Some MLAs and political leaders from Delhi have sexual harassment charges so Shiela dikshit rides with you know who.

How's hanging/castrating a rapist law owned by Sharia, even if Sharia law proposes that?

If passed by law makers, it will be a legitimate law in a democratic country.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:43 pm

Merlot Daruwala wrote:
southindian wrote:I agree. This government is in bed (literally) with many rapists and ant rape legislatures are not strong. Fortunately, the vote bank to capture here is 50% of Indian population, so I can see some traction in stringent laws "on paper".
I agree even more. MMS and Shiela Dikshit were both elected by rapists and are pandering to the rapist vote-bank. Ant Rape legislatures like IPC are inadequate. We need shariah.

Now we are talking....

Adapt Sharia for serious criminal offenses involving Terror acts, Rape, Drug Smuggling, Financial looting, and officials who are convicted in any First Degree criminal act.

Oh...Allow only 2 postponements for each side in court cases, and make all anticipatory bails illegal.

by Nila Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:50 pm

I was thinking Indian states should divide and no longer depend on Central for anything. I am really scared of Congress and Sonia and I want them all banished and relieve our states from them.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:55 pm

Sasthi wrote:I was thinking Indian states should divide and no longer depend on Central for anything. I am really scared of Congress and Sonia and I want them all banished and relieve our states from them.

Finally, KV has achieved his/her stated goal of finding ONE true Tamil Nationalist here on SuCH.

There are rape-accused MLAs in UP, Gujarat, TN, Andhra, Bihar, Chattisgarh, West Bengal, Jharkhand, and Orissa.

This is Gangrene spread across India from the top to the bottom.

by Nila Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:59 pm

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:
Sasthi wrote:I was thinking Indian states should divide and no longer depend on Central for anything. I am really scared of Congress and Sonia and I want them all banished and relieve our states from them.

Finally, KV has achieved his/her stated goal of finding ONE true Tamil Nationalist here on SuCH.

There are rape-accused MLAs in UP, Gujarat, TN, Andhra, Bihar, Chattisgarh, West Bengal, Jharkhand, and Orissa.

This is Gangrene spread across India from the top to the bottom.

I am with KV. We need real leaders not actors and every politician should declare their assets (including their families). Existing politicians should give up their properties. All the politicians should be paid in crores as salaries. When every individual pays their taxes properly they do take responsibilites. We need new laws in India - otherwise there is no real hope.

by truthbetold Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:59 pm

Merlot,
as long as apologists for rapists, terrorists and incompetent corrupt politicians like you are around rapists will feel their backs are well guarded.

In this particular case death sentence is a fit case as a murder was committed and the process used was brutal by any scale of common sense.

Why are you opposing death sentence in this case?

by Sponsored content