Re: Why I am not an Atheist

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:03 pm

[quote="ashaNirasha"][quote="Vakavaka Pakapaka"]

panini press wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:[quot

And I have seen self-professed atheists becoming emotional when the other side uses the same technique they use against theists. Confrontation of this kind (from theists or atheists) is actually belief in action (on both sides) and Sankara would say, this is reflective of a fanatic attachment to "vasanas". Ashis Nandy would say, the difference between the CH "discussion" and that in my village street fight is - the "sophistication" that CHers use to sugar coat their biases. Just look at this thread and you will see one or two very sophisticated "street fighters".

I read this paragraph 3 times and gave up. I think I understood the sentence with Ashis Nandy a little but I'm not totally sure.

Vakavaka garu, Deepak Chopra in channel chesthunnara?

Naashikulu pOtlaade vidhaanam koodaa oka nammakaanni smardhinchatam. Vaallu alaa anukOru (ahamkaaram moolamgaa).

Deepak Chopra dabbukOsam EdO vaagutaadu. Manaki aa tatent lEdu.

The reference to Sankara: both theists and atheists, when they fight, are showing their attachment (based on belief systems).

The reference to Nandi: even though both opponents in a fight follow belief systems, one side pretends not to be (using sophistication) and the other, doesn't cover up and becomes an easy target (Nandy says that upper and lower casts can be corrupt but the latter gets exposed easily because of lack of sophistication).

by Maria S Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:35 pm

atcg wrote:

Not exactly arguing here, but why do you feel the vast majority is focused on addressing their fears - what kind of fears do you speak of? Fear of uncertainty, Fear of death, Fear of the Other ??

Most people around me seem to be well-off in material sense and many of them seem anxious only about their social and psychological/emotional contexts. In a flippant way, they seem to have the "good problems to have" syndrome. Their worries are about their relationships, the well-being of their close family members etc. I wouldn't necessarily classify them as being afraid. To most of them, it is buffet religion and they partake the elements that will address their anxieties. Is this what you meant by "fears"?

I don't buy "fear" as being the primary trigger/motivator for faith at all.
Sure, there are times when we pray more..but, it can be for so many reasons..or for NO reason at all- and that's fab. prayer..unconditional love prayer:)

by Petrichor Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Maria S wrote:

I don't buy "fear" as being the primary trigger/motivator for faith at all.
Sure, there are times when we pray more..but, it can be for so many reasons..or for NO reason at all- and that's fab. prayer..unconditional love prayer:)

I was mostly talking about Hindus who are not very orthodox and seem to have a 'buffet' approach - just because the religion does not prescribe a strict code for day to day practices, at least as it is perceived by most of them. I suspect things are a bit different with the Abrahamic faiths - there is a certain sense of accountability and regimen which condition the Christian and the Muslim to a different approach. There is a more of a cause-and-effect relationship they perceive with their God. God is a more immediate presence, perhaps, in their minds?

I can easily see when someone goes through a period of relative quiet and stability, and they like their current state, their conditioning could cause them to say "thanks God (sic)" and feel it from the core of their being. This is what I was quibbling with, with PP - that a significant majority need not always be motivated by their anxieties and sometimes (although we can argue over percentages) there will be a small sliver of the religious that are genuinely happy to have found a nice place for themselves in their journeys.

by Idéfix Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:14 pm

atcg wrote:
Maria S wrote:

I don't buy "fear" as being the primary trigger/motivator for faith at all.
Sure, there are times when we pray more..but, it can be for so many reasons..or for NO reason at all- and that's fab. prayer..unconditional love prayer:)

I was mostly talking about Hindus who are not very orthodox and seem to have a 'buffet' approach - just because the religion does not prescribe a strict code for day to day practices, at least as it is perceived by most of them. I suspect things are a bit different with the Abrahamic faiths - there is a certain sense of accountability and regimen which condition the Christian and the Muslim to a different approach. There is a more of a cause-and-effect relationship they perceive with their God. God is a more immediate presence, perhaps, in their minds?

I can easily see when someone goes through a period of relative quiet and stability, and they like their current state, their conditioning could cause them to say "thanks God (sic)" and feel it from the core of their being. This is what I was quibbling with, with PP - that a significant majority need not always be motivated by their anxieties and sometimes (although we can argue over percentages) there will be a small sliver of the religious that are genuinely happy to have found a nice place for themselves in their journeys.

The people whose religious practices and motivations I know most about are mostly Hindu, with a few Muslims and fewer Christians among them. So I was also talking mostly about Hindus. I agree that there is a small sliver that are genuinely happy and are not driven by anxiety / fear. In my observation, those usually tend to be people who have crossed the ocean of life (samsaara saagaram to use an Indian / Hindu metaphor) and are in their golden years, and are financially secure in their retirement. But for the most part, young and middle-aged people tend to be motivated by anxieties about their finances, health, family, etc. to seek out succor through religion. Not that there is anything wrong with that. When I feel worried or anxious, I might reach out to my wife, family and friends for support; religion is a way to broaden than support group in this sense.

by Idéfix Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:18 pm

Incidentally, I have also noticed among Hindus and Muslims that if a person in their relatively more productive years (let's say between 20 and 60) were to become consumed by a spiritual quest and therefore spend their time and energy on religious pursuits, that is generally frowned upon and considered an aberration. I know of a few individuals who were driven by their quest for meaning to make religion their full-time pursuit in their 30s and 40s. I have heard believers of the same faith speak of those individuals in tones of sympathy usually extended towards the ill. If the same individual were to delay their spiritual quest until after retirement / "getting the children settled," their religious pursuits would be spoken about in tones of respect, not sympathy.

by Maria S Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:43 pm

atcg wrote:

I was mostly talking about Hindus who are not very orthodox and seem to have a 'buffet' approach - just because the religion does not prescribe a strict code for day to day practices, at least as it is perceived by most of them. I suspect things are a bit different with the Abrahamic faiths - there is a certain sense of accountability and regimen which condition the Christian and the Muslim to a different approach. There is a more of a cause-and-effect relationship they perceive with their God. God is a more immediate presence, perhaps, in their minds?

I can easily see when someone goes through a period of relative quiet and stability, and they like their current state, their conditioning could cause them to say "thanks God (sic)" and feel it from the core of their being. This is what I was quibbling with, with PP - that a significant majority need not always be motivated by their anxieties and sometimes (although we can argue over percentages) there will be a small sliver of the religious that are genuinely happy to have found a nice place for themselves in their journeys.

I will def. stay away from commenting on other faiths/doctrines, would be utterly foolish for me to talk about that!

It is hard enough to explain.. "lived knowledge/experiences":
There are differences between 1) "raw" faith- acknowlegment 2) religion (religious culture). For a "practicing" Christian (which is a broad umbrella!)..there are some basic expectations/"accountability" as you called it based on the "raw faith teachings" and our religious culture traditions/new guidelines..which do change based on our affiliations/denominations. The Pope's retirement is among those changing traditions. *There is plenty to criticize..when it comes to many Church traditions..it would be great to see a Woman Pope! Unfortunately the glass ceiling is so low they can't even make to "full Priest status" (esp. when Mother Mary is almost like a deity to them) as U would call it..women are at "Gumastha status!"

*This has been an interesting thread..thank you ALL for kind your responses, views, opinions.
It's a a heavy topic (imo)..will end it here for now.

by Hellsangel Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:47 pm

Maria S wrote:

I will def. stay away from commenting on other faiths/doctrines, would be utterly foolish for me to talk about that!

It is hard enough to explain.. "lived knowledge/experiences":
There are differences between 1) "raw" faith- acknowlegment 2) religion (religious culture). For a "practicing" Christian (which is a broad umbrella!)..there are some basic expectations/"accountability" as you called it based on the "raw faith teachings" and our religious culture traditions/new guidelines..which do change based on our affiliations/denominations. The Pope's retirement is among those changing traditions. *There is plenty to criticize..when it comes to many Church traditions..it would be great to see a Woman Pope! Unfortunately the glass ceiling is so low they can't even make to "full Priest status" (esp. when Mother Mary is almost like a deity to them) as U would call it..women are at "Gumastha status!"

*This has been an interesting thread..thank you ALL for kind your responses, views, opinions.
It's a a heavy topic (imo)..will end it here for now.

Since when did Anglicans and Catholics become the same faith?

by Maria S Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:52 pm

That is not what I meant..it's all under "a broad umbrella" of practicing Christians (as Catholics and Protestants are referred to)..and various culture-traditions.
If I am not so articulate in explaining..it is what it is.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:56 pm

what religion gives you the best chance to get laid? mormonism?

by Hellsangel Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:57 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:what religion gives you the best chance to get laid? mormonism?

Oshoism

by Propagandhi711 Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:13 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:what religion gives you the best chance to get laid? mormonism?

Oshoism

for free

by Hellsangel Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:15 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:what religion gives you the best chance to get laid? mormonism?

Oshoism

for free

No such thing as a free lunch.

by Propagandhi711 Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
Hellsangel wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:what religion gives you the best chance to get laid? mormonism?

Oshoism

for free

No such thing as a free lunch.

there are religions that require hard cash - oshoism, scientology etc - no poor osho devotees or scientologists. there must be a religion or two out that hands out free pussy...

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:29 pm

Maria S wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

it's actually quite funny and doesn't insult anyone as you seem to be imagining.

.

Ok, have some fun at my expense! I find some of your posts- what you imagine and say- very funny too in different ways..I don't post about it.

Enjoy!

there is some communication breakdown. i wasn't making fun of you, wasn't even trying to. you have a bit of a conditioned response to anything i might post in response to one of your posts. your default assumption seems to be that i am saying something snarky or making fun of you. godwin's law has nothing to do with god or religion. it's an observation by someone called godwin that the longer an internet discussion (on any topic) goes on, the larger the probability that someone is going to compare someone or something to the nazis or hitler. there is nothing remotely pejorative about religion when i made a reference to godwin's law.

and the original post about godwin's law was not even made in reference to anything you said! it was a response to southindian's post that i might be stepping on someone's freedom of speech.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:46 pm

Maria S wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

it's actually quite funny and doesn't insult anyone as you seem to be imagining.

.

Ok, have some fun at my expense! I find some of your posts- what you imagine and say- very funny too in different ways..I don't post about it.

Enjoy!

God is kind. She created not so smart people like us :-).

by Maria S Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:04 pm

Whatever you say Dr. Max:)

It can be miscommunication..after interacting for years, if there are patterns, its understandable we do develop some conditioned responses, although in fairness- occ. people do surprise us. At least you never, ever mollycoddle me (I just like that word..wanted to use it!) Just like lolligag (like to say it..when I can!)

DUTneeshji,

Forget other organized religious groups. It's time to start a special ashram/refuge for your followers to flock..for special blessings (of course)..have heard it really works!

by pravalika nanda Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:15 pm

Maria S wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:Calm and peace. That's all I go to temples for. No other belief matters at that point for me.

I pray silently everywhere:) Especially when I travel by autorickshaws in Chennai!
## i would too. and i would pray even harder if that autorickshaw is headed to delhi.
## in fact, now, when i see indina men (the NIs), i quickly classify them as potential rapist, wifebeater, on-looker, reporter.

*I am part of a few Churches (memberships)..in India and the US..but, "Organized Religion"- Is BIG business/BIG time politics (can't deny that!)

by goodcitizn Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:22 pm

God, please help this thread die or else I'm becoming an atheist.

by Idéfix Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:35 pm

goodcitizn wrote:God, please help this thread die or else I'm becoming an atheist.

by dominic mistry Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:46 pm

atcg wrote:I think the reasons why doctors are believers, mostly has to do with their keen sense of their own limitations coupled with an imprecise understanding of how human body works - lot more of it is conjecture than in harder physical sciences.

i disagree. doctors are believers for the same reason non-doctors are: stupidity, fear, and a coping mechanism to deal with the unknown or one's own limitations. i don't understand why you're singling out the medical professionals for not knowing everything. this is true of all fields. and if your doctor is doing a lot of conjecturing, then you just don't have a good doc. let me give you an example:

if a patient comes in with a difficulty breathing, you can auscultate the chest, an ekg might show that the heart is firing fiercely with no time to relax between beats, you ask yourself what trigerred this: perhaps a clot from the deep veins in the leg that formed because the patient was sitting through a long flight; is this a heart under stress from sepsis? is this from drinking too much red bull or caffeine? is this a smoker with hypoxia from severe lung disease?

once you get a patient, you figure out based on the history, patient's co-morbidities, work, lifestyle, family history, geography, physical examination, imaging and lab tests what's happening at that moment, and what could've triggered it, there are some very straight-forward answers as to how to manage things. having said that, one worries that there are too many management algorithms. in medicine, no two patients are alike. how would you like to have the physician who use the same management algorithm for the 40-yr-old pregnant woman, a 40-yr-old, a 40-yr-old HIV patient compliant (or not) with his anti-retroviral therapy, a 40-yr-old reporter returning from an assignment in africa, if they should complain of cough? so yes, it's not mathematics but it's called reasoning, it's not fucking guesswork or conjecture.

further, all the treatments that are available to you have come after a lot of clinical trials, and they continue to be tested so if a drug performs poorly you pull it off the market. safety info, monitoring parameters, and details of trials are fairly accessible to the general public. docotrs don't tell you tell you to take an aspirin if you're a male from the age of 45-79 for the primary prev of heart dis cuz they feel like it, they've studied this. device therapy did not come about by guesswork: if a patient comes in with a massive heart attack, goes into cardiogenic shock, there are ongoing-studies that will compare the use of different drugs with device therapy like IABPs. it's a very vast field, it's hard for me to explain this to you but conjecture it is not; there are some things we know well and other things that we're studying.

fact is, today, there are too many people on the planet because doctors are too good!

by Guest Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:49 pm

hello mburuburu?

by Maria S Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:00 pm

Hmm..that is very nursing, I mean nurturing to doctors! Nice to see- someone experiencing a "born-again/rebirth" experience with a nice name here! Smile

That's funny GC! Please don't tempt me..to keep this thread alive:)

GN everyone!

by Petrichor Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:05 am

Let me see what I agree with here (bolded below)...it may just be semantics that is contentious.

dominic mistry wrote:
atcg wrote:I think the reasons why doctors are believers, mostly has to do with their keen sense of their own limitations coupled with an imprecise understanding of how human body works - lot more of it is conjecture than in harder physical sciences.
i disagree. doctors are believers for the same reason non-doctors are: stupidity, fear, and a coping mechanism to deal with the unknown or one's own limitations. i don't understand why you're singling out the medical professionals for not knowing everything. this is true of all fields. and if your doctor is doing a lot of conjecturing, then you just don't have a good doc. let me give you an example:

if a patient comes in with a difficulty breathing, you can auscultate the chest, an ekg might show that the heart is firing fiercely with no time to relax between beats, you ask yourself what trigerred this: perhaps a clot from the deep veins in the leg that formed because the patient was sitting through a long flight; is this a heart under stress from sepsis? is this from drinking too much red bull or caffeine? is this a smoker with hypoxia from severe lung disease?

once you get a patient, you figure out based on the history, patient's co-morbidities, work, lifestyle, family history, geography, physical examination, imaging and lab tests what's happening at that moment, and what could've triggered it, there are some very straight-forward answers as to how to manage things. having said that, one worries that there are too many management algorithms. in medicine, no two patients are alike. how would you like to have the physician who use the same management algorithm for the 40-yr-old pregnant woman, a 40-yr-old, a 40-yr-old HIV patient compliant (or not) with his anti-retroviral therapy, a 40-yr-old reporter returning from an assignment in africa, if they should complain of cough? so yes, it's not mathematics but it's called reasoning, it's not fucking guesswork or conjecture.

further, all the treatments that are available to you have come after a lot of clinical trials, and they continue to be tested so if a drug performs poorly you pull it off the market. safety info, monitoring parameters, and details of trials are fairly accessible to the general public. docotrs don't tell you tell you to take an aspirin if you're a male from the age of 45-79 for the primary prev of heart dis cuz they feel like it, they've studied this. device therapy did not come about by guesswork: if a patient comes in with a massive heart attack, goes into cardiogenic shock, there are ongoing-studies that will compare the use of different drugs with device therapy like IABPs. it's a very vast field, it's hard for me to explain this to you but conjecture it is not; there are some things we know well and other things that we're studying.

fact is, today, there are too many people on the planet because doctors are too good!

I was not attempting to diss doctors - sometimes they err, like you did above, in inflating their own agency in keeping people healthy and alive. And the keywords that I used "than in harder physical sciences" is precisely what I meant - human body is a lot more complex and doesn't always behave like a machine with precision.

And yes, I used the word Conjecture - definition: An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
A lot of information that doctors handle using their own heuristics is "incomplete" - battery of tests and images do not substitute for asking *all* the questions - doctors do not have sufficient time to ask *all* the questions! It is a valiant battle and as you rightly point out, the healthy population numbers is proof of the amazing advances in medical science. They, and their cheerleaders, should stop making it easy for them to have a "God Complex". Smile

by Maria S Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:12 am

I didn't see it as dissing doctors.

Thought it was fair- actually complimentary in a round about (atcg way!) to doctors.

The new (!) poster seems like quite an idealist (ah! memories of those amazing days!)..will be interesting to see what she, I mean she/he says in 20 years about doctors from now!

Funny..life has a way of taming idealism and making us pragmatists..esp. about some aspects of life we were once so absolutely sure about- professional and personal (like faith..when it comes to love..same applies too about the "unknown")!

Good morning atcg:)

by Petrichor Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:19 am

Good morning Maria! Just had great filter coffee - I hope to not be tethered to Such today ...we will see Smile

If you're lucky, you would be basking in early morning sun at the local Waffle house over whatever pleases your palate.

by Maria S Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:33 am

atcg wrote:Good morning Maria! Just had great filter coffee - I hope to not be tethered to Such today ...we will see

If you're lucky, you would be basking in early morning sun at the local Waffle house over whatever pleases your palate.

I am not so lucky this morning..hey! what's with the Waffle House..we can get loaded greasy food (which tastes absolutely delicious!) in a lot of places here!

Actually..it's funny you say that..Waffle Houses in the US..are becoming like little melting pots in the South..There is always a combo of black, white and brown (Hispanic-blend in with them)..(who cares about counting calories!) having a good time..it's salsa (food) galore..even the music they play is more Salsa, Hip hop and Reggae..nowadays! Nice with Southern grits, biscuits, fried tomatoes..and a lot more!

*Am serious..they have one cook- one waitress (may be one more!)..talk about efficient service..and they do it always with big smiles 24/7:) Never been to a WF..where customer service was not excellent.

by goodcitizn Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:25 pm

My favorite quotes on atheism:

George Carlin -- Atheism is a non-prophet organization!

Mark Twain -- Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

by Maria S Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:24 am

Funny ones GC!

Think some the followers of the "no-religion- religion" can be on fire..extreme like some Prophets too- making sweeping generalizations and have a closed mind:)

*My fav. atheist in contemporary times is Bill Maher..had the pleasure of listening to him in a live show..not too long ago..disagree with him on some things..*He is so right when it talks about some of the Christian "institutions"..esp. how different we are- when it comes to the basic teachings of Christ - in regards to poor, sick..living a life of simplicity..not leaders of the Church living in mansions..and all the extravagant lifestyles..women's equality etc.

Nice to read about this (to me..this does not seem like fear of any kind!)

Dr. Ben Carson for President? 'I'll Leave That Up to God

http://news.yahoo.com/dr-ben-carson-president-ill-leave-god-130554763--abc-news-politics.html

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:35 am

dominic mistry wrote:

fact is, today, there are too many people on the planet because doctors are too good!

Ahhhhh.....Great morning to read a post by a AMA-rep.

There are too many people on the planet bcz the doctors are good, but the same people are sucking up 70% of the resources without contributing back much bcz the doctors are not good enough.

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:55 am

by garam_kuta Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:04 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:

God's great creation is man and vice versa scratch

by Guest Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:20 pm

lol, yeah. man's great creation is god.

by Maria S Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:31 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:lol, yeah. man's great creation is god.

Poor Man/Woman who thinks he/she is "Supreme above all!"..have seen plenty of "God Complex"..that's for sure!

They are so sure about "everything"..themselves, everyone else..even God- NO God! Understanding oneself is hard enough at times!

by goodcitizn Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:59 pm

Maria S wrote:Funny ones GC!

*My fav. atheist in contemporary times is Bill Maher..had the pleasure of listening to him in a live show..not too long ago..disagree with him on some things..*He is so right when it talks about some of the Christian "institutions"..esp. how different we are- when it comes to the basic teachings of Christ - in regards to poor, sick..living a life of simplicity..not leaders of the Church living in mansions..and all the extravagant lifestyles..women's equality etc.

Here's a Bill Maher quote:

There’s a phrase we live by in America: “In God We Trust”. It’s right there where Jesus would want it: on our money.

by Idéfix Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:20 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
Maria S wrote:Funny ones GC!

*My fav. atheist in contemporary times is Bill Maher..had the pleasure of listening to him in a live show..not too long ago..disagree with him on some things..*He is so right when it talks about some of the Christian "institutions"..esp. how different we are- when it comes to the basic teachings of Christ - in regards to poor, sick..living a life of simplicity..not leaders of the Church living in mansions..and all the extravagant lifestyles..women's equality etc.

Here's a Bill Maher quote:

There’s a phrase we live by in America: “In God We Trust”. It’s right there where Jesus would want it: on our money.

His latest, to Catholics: if the Pope can quit, so can you!

by Maria S Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:11 pm

GC,

The irony of things:)

Carvaka,

I did see the funny clips of the recent show where Bill talks about Hillary, Oprah or him being potential candidates to become Pope (and why!)..was quite funny. For Catholic women as he says..it's am sure it's dilemma-reconcilation when they use contraception (as obviously most do these days), being denied full-priesthood.

by Hellsangel Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Maria S wrote:Funny ones GC!

Think some the followers of the "no-religion- religion" can be on fire..extreme like some Prophets too- making sweeping generalizations and have a closed mind:)

*My fav. atheist in contemporary times is Bill Maher..had the pleasure of listening to him in a live show..not too long ago..disagree with him on some things..*He is so right when it talks about some of the Christian "institutions"..esp. how different we are- when it comes to the basic teachings of Christ - in regards to poor, sick..living a life of simplicity..not leaders of the Church living in mansions..and all the extravagant lifestyles..women's equality etc.

Nice to read about this (to me..this does not seem like fear of any kind!)

Dr. Ben Carson for President? 'I'll Leave That Up to God

http://news.yahoo.com/dr-ben-carson-president-ill-leave-god-130554763--abc-news-politics.html

Exodus 20:7

by southindian Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:25 pm

Humans can NEVER be Atheists? Anyone saying this is lying.

by goodcitizn Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:05 pm

George Carlin Quote:

“Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.”

by Maria S Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:11 pm

Seems like he is exaggerating and relies too much on some allegory to be funny (well, everyone does to take shots.. and if one does not separate it..that can be funny at times!) Feel kind of sorry for him if he thinks He "wants your money" I guess that works for comedy..why not:)

I suppose he was raised to focus on the ten things..and perhaps he saw God as passive-aggressive- which many of us who did learn the same stuff..looked at/learned quite differently..we focus more on today's life.. faith as a part of 'way of life' than focus on "after life"..

That's what makes the Bible so endlessly fascinating..2000 years later..people take most shots at it..and others learn from it and a lot more:)

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