Re: the investec ashes 2013

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:40 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:This is easily the worst team that Aussies have ever put on field. Clarke is a terrible leader. My admiration for Border just went up a couple of notches who rebuilt the team when it was under similar circumstances few decades ago.

why do you say clarke is a bad leader? he doesn't have much to operate with given the brittle batting. it took border a long time to rebuild. clarke's job is going to be no easier. you don't just replace giants like warne, ponting, mcgrath, hayden, langer, and gilchrist overnight.

by nevada Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:33 pm

Still no declaration from England. Can the Aussies shock the world by batting out the remaining 2 days?

by confuzzled dude Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:32 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
doofus_maximus wrote:This is easily the worst team that Aussies have ever put on field. Clarke is a terrible leader. My admiration for Border just went up a couple of notches who rebuilt the team when it was under similar circumstances few decades ago.

why do you say clarke is a bad leader? he doesn't have much to operate with given the brittle batting. it took border a long time to rebuild. clarke's job is going to be no easier. you don't just replace giants like warne, ponting, mcgrath, hayden, langer, and gilchrist overnight.

Yup back then main goal was to draw, not many teams were playing to win. India survived many decades with that mindset despite fielding subpar teams. Border probably would've struggled as much in this era with this team.

by confuzzled dude Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:34 pm

nevada wrote:Still no declaration from England. Can the Aussies shock the world by batting out the remaining 2 days?

Are they going to wait for Root score a double! all they need is a day to bowlout Aussies.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:42 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
nevada wrote:Still no declaration from England. Can the Aussies shock the world by batting out the remaining 2 days?

Are they going to wait for Root score a double! all they need is a day to bowlout Aussies.

i think they want to grind the aussies down so they have no energy left in the rest of the series. it's not just about this test match.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:10 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
doofus_maximus wrote:This is easily the worst team that Aussies have ever put on field. Clarke is a terrible leader. My admiration for Border just went up a couple of notches who rebuilt the team when it was under similar circumstances few decades ago.

why do you say clarke is a bad leader? he doesn't have much to operate with given the brittle batting. it took border a long time to rebuild. clarke's job is going to be no easier. you don't just replace giants like warne, ponting, mcgrath, hayden, langer, and gilchrist overnight.

Yup back then main goal was to draw, not many teams were playing to win. India survived many decades with that mindset despite fielding subpar teams. Border probably would've struggled as much in this era with this team.

look at what they are up against. replacing the best spinner (i consider warne > murali because he got wkts against tougher opponents), the second or third best top order batsman (you can argue whether that's dravid or ponting), the best fast bowler, the best opening batting pair, and the best wkt keeper-batsman of the modern era! no wonder they dominated the game. they all left within a year or two of each other and now everyone is whining the team is ordinary. a bit of perspective is missing from these criticisms. the aussies will definitely come back. their system is solid and they don't tolerate incompetence for too long (look how they sacked mickey arthur).

clarke is still young (he is only 32). he has three maybe four good years left. by the time he is done, he will leave a reasonably good team for his successor. india appears to be doing relatively better in terms of replacing seniors, but these guys haven't been tested yet in the toughest conditions -- five day games in SA, england, and australia. that will put everyone in their proper places.

by truthbetold Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:19 pm

To say this Australian team sucks and this ashes series is overhyped is stating the obvious. The past Australian team greatness or future heroes do not change those facts.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:21 pm

incidentally when does india play test cricket next? i don't see anything on the calendar until oct-nov 2013 when they tour SA. is this it? if that's the case, i will wait to see what happens during that tour before declaring victory on our rebuilding efforts.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:22 pm

truthbetold wrote:To say this Australian team sucks and this ashes series is overhyped is stating the obvious. The past Australian team greatness or future heroes do not change those facts.

there is no disagreement on that score. in fact we are in violent agreement. i was only addressing the criticism leveled against clarke.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:27 pm

there is no better sorter-outer of boys from men in the current era than dale steyn. i can't wait for october to roll around and for him to have a go at our freshie bunch.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:50 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
doofus_maximus wrote:This is easily the worst team that Aussies have ever put on field. Clarke is a terrible leader. My admiration for Border just went up a couple of notches who rebuilt the team when it was under similar circumstances few decades ago.

why do you say clarke is a bad leader? he doesn't have much to operate with given the brittle batting. it took border a long time to rebuild. clarke's job is going to be no easier. you don't just replace giants like warne, ponting, mcgrath, hayden, langer, and gilchrist overnight.

michael holding in the sky commentary team said these words 20 seconds ago almost verbatim! eerie.

by doofus_maximus Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:36 am

When you are doing the rebuilding, you don't throw away veterans like Katich and Hussey who can still contribute. He was the main reason Katich was kept out. There were rumors about Hussey's sudden retirement. His rift with Watson and the whole homework episode during the India tour. They all point to him being a bad leader. Border with limited resources came to India and did very well. That Indian team had some solid players compared to the one which just whitewashed Aussies. His constant shuffling of batting order and his handling of Nathan Lyon are some good examples of bad leadership and having absolutely no foresight.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:45 am

katich has always had a bit of an emotional problem and has been trouble for all australian captains. read steve waugh's autobiography. i didn't know there was bad blood between clarke and hussey. i thought hussey called it a day out of his own volition.

by truthbetold Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:04 am

Another sterling batting display by Australians. Usman helped Clarke fight off England for a full 20 overs.
What a high quality cricket!

by yogi Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:15 am

It is sad to see the australians losing without any spirited fight that they are famous for. Is australia going in the path of WI ??

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:45 am

I think finally the cricketing world is getting equalized. Aussies have hit the slopes and now at the same level as the Zimbies and Bangla and a shade better than the Windies.

India's swing bowlers (who would have EVER imagined Desis as SWING bowlers) can pose a decent challenge overseas making India competitive. With Ashwin, Jadeja they might have a decent spin combo. The question is how well the batsmen will cope in phoren lands. So it will be SA, England (they are shaping to be a great batting side), and perhaps Pakisaitan and India sitting in a different league.

by truthbetold Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:44 pm

Uppilisamy,
Let us not go overboard with our. analysis. Australia still has some bowling, still has some home ground advantage. Their pacy high bounce pitches are difficult for non Australians. They certainly need a strike bowler with real pace and a decent spinner who can help the pace gang. They need a lot more help in batting. Most of them cannot bat well against spin and are completely lost against fast bowling.
Sa, India and Pakistan have not shown long term dominant test ability. The gap between weak Australia and others can be bridged with a couple of good players.
I will enjoy the misery of Australia without forecasting far into future.

by Marathadi-Saamiyaar Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:56 pm

truthbetold wrote:Uppilisamy,
Let us not go overboard with our.
I will enjoy the misery of Australia without forecasting far into future.

I am not projecting too far. But, still it will take 5 to 10 years to rebuild. England took almost that long and windies are barely managing to stay afloat - till couple of speed devils show up on their horizon.

With the likes of Praveen kumar, Bhuvaneshwar and Vinay kumar, the domestic batsmen could sharpen their skills against moving ball (whatever happened to the 2 wonderkids - from Rajasthan). Indian batting might not see the haydays of last decade, but has enough talent to weather the storm - Still there are Abhinav ukund, Manish Pandey, Manoj Tiwary, Unmukt Chand, all very young.

India has to find a couple of more Umesh Yadavs and a couple of more spinners, and they will be OK.

by truthbetold Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:02 pm

India also needs to develop few pace friendly venues and tournaments. Even the beet in the world can be tamed on the Chennai pitch.

by Captain Bhankas Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:47 am

today's AUS = today's Bangladesh - 10 years

this is pathetic cricket by AUS. i hope they regroup in the next one and make a match out of it. they need to fly back warner (although he is not scoring even against ZIM) and gamble at the top. a solid opening p'ship by him and watson may be the answer to their batting problems.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:22 am

better start for aus, but watson's miserable streak continues.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:51 am

one more awful awful decision! wtf is wrong with these umpires? and this is with DRS! ridiculous.

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:54 am

how can they discuss it for so long, and then get it wrong? are these umpires participating in some kind of match fixing shenanigans? this is amazing!

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:59 am

u.khawaja c dharmasena b hill -- 1

by MaxEntropy_Man Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:39 pm

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:11 am

ENG is doing their best to lose this test.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:12 am

confuzzled dude wrote:ENG is doing their best to lose this test.

come on man, give some credit to the aussies. weather isn't cooperating.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:43 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:ENG is doing their best to lose this test.

come on man, give some credit to the aussies. weather isn't cooperating.

I don't know, I think Pommies became complacent.

by MaxEntropy_Man Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:45 am

that picture summarizes the ashes series so far. i feel for the poor guy. i don't think he deserves so much criticism. there is much wrong today with aussie cricket, but not much wrong with the captain. anyway england retain the ashes thanks to some crappy cricket by the aussies in the first two matches and to weather in the third. i think the aussies will still come hard at england in the next two, just to get back their mojo and for pride.

by Captain Bhankas Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:37 am

ENG was lucky to escape a certain defeat. ENG is looking a lot worse than they were against IND in IND and AUS in AUS. AUS, on the other hand, improved their game in this match.

what does that tell me? AUS will regain the ashes in about 6 months from now.

by confuzzled dude Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:24 pm

Per Cricinfo, Eng was complacent on day 1. Let's see how would Aussies respond to Swann.

by MaxEntropy_Man Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:34 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:Per Cricinfo, Eng was complacent on day 1. Let's see how would Aussies respond to Swann.

i watched a bit of the morning session. cook and trott were going about it very calmly. the rest of the day got busy and when i checked in again they were 180/7 or something like that. i checked the scoreboard and a number of them had perished to that cadaverous non-spinning off spinner! wtf happened?

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:04 am

a tricky DRS question -- batsman appears to have nicked the ball, which hits the pad and goes on to the keeper who pouches it. fielding team appeals and the umpire gives a caught behind decision. batsman asks for a review which shows no nick, but reveals he was plumb in front when he got rapped on the pads. can the umpire now give him out lbw?

that's what happened this morning to chris rogers. eventually he was given not out. do you agree?

by goodcitizn Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:32 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:a tricky DRS question -- batsman appears to have nicked the ball, which hits the pad and goes on to the keeper who pouches it. fielding team appeals and the umpire gives a caught behind decision. batsman asks for a review which shows no nick, but reveals he was plumb in front when he got rapped on the pads. can the umpire now give him out lbw?

that's what happened this morning to chris rogers. eventually he was given not out. do you agree?

A gentleman like Dravid would have walked back to the pavillion regardless of how he was out. If you follow the rules of being out, Chris Rogers was out in my book. Otherwise don't have DRS to challenge the umpire's call.

by MaxEntropy_Man Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:31 pm

goodcitizn wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:a tricky DRS question -- batsman appears to have nicked the ball, which hits the pad and goes on to the keeper who pouches it. fielding team appeals and the umpire gives a caught behind decision. batsman asks for a review which shows no nick, but reveals he was plumb in front when he got rapped on the pads. can the umpire now give him out lbw?

that's what happened this morning to chris rogers. eventually he was given not out. do you agree?
A gentleman like Dravid would have walked back to the pavillion regardless of how he was out. If you follow the rules of being out, Chris Rogers was out in my book. Otherwise don't have DRS to challenge the umpire's call.

the point is the fielding team appealed for caught behind and the umpire gave it out caught behind. the batsman used DRS to overrule that (the caught behind) decision. how is it fair to the batsman to rule him lbw after the fact taking advantage of a review that he requested?

this sounds like a professor i had at IIT. if we went to him to complain about a question he had graded unfairly, he'd give back points based on our complaint on that question, and take the opportunity to take away points from other questions. the idea was to discourage the students from whining.

by confuzzled dude Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:26 am

Aussies on top at the moment but if Pommies can get a lead of 200+ that will make for an interesting 4th innings chase.

by truthbetold Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:26 pm

England are on their way to a 250 plus lead .
is this Chester le street a recent test ground? it wad not around in 1980s. what kind of assistance does it provide bowlers? this is a relatively law scoring match.

by Captain Bhankas Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:32 am

nearly 300 will be beyond AUS. warner is the key.

by truthbetold Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:45 am

Why did you pick warner? Is it because he did not contribute in recent matches? Is it because his career is on line? Is it the pitch or bowling conditions? Is it just a gut feeling?

by Captain Bhankas Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:55 am

because he has not fired so far and is due for a big one.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:37 am

Captain Bhankas wrote:nearly 300 will be beyond AUS. warner is the key.

So they need to score 299 to win! I guess the loss of Cook & Trott's form made the 2 teams look even/balanced in the last 2 matches. I realize Bell has been wonderful to make up for one of them. I think Ozzies still got a lot of work to do in terms of rebuilding their team.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:43 am

Wow! openers put together 100 p'ship, Pommies need a couple of quick wickets.

by truthbetold Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:01 pm

Captain your last name is joshi.
you got one before.
this warner prediction is the second one.
congratulations.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:31 pm

Aus went from 108/0 to 179/6. still need 124 to win. Haddin is the only recognized bat left.

by southindian Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:47 pm

Aussies are imploding fast.

The remaing 8 overs appear too many.

by confuzzled dude Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:51 pm

southindian wrote:Aussies are imploding fast.

I see.. Haddin is gone too. I guess there is no need for Day 5.

by nevada Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:56 pm

Wow, Aussies working hard to gift another match! Just an hour ago things seemed well in their control. And are all the pitches in England bowler friendly or is it batsmen choking again and again? Except the previous test, every test in this series has been low scoring.

by nevada Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:13 pm

If this had been Pakistan, surely match fixing would have been suspected.

by truthbetold Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:30 pm

Australian's played to their form. this team is a weak team that cannot compete with England team. in batting only Clarke is world class and roger gets credit for fighting contribution.
even if Australia wins a test this series is just a one sided.contest.

by Captain Bhankas Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:15 am

truthbetold wrote:Captain your last name is joshi.
you got one before.
this warner prediction is the second one.
congratulations.

haha, some of uppili saar!'s powers have rubbed off on to me by sharing the same e-space with him.

this AUS team can surprise you, can't it? i mean, when they were nearly 150/2, i thought they would easily win it. nothing seems to work for AUS. it appears that their cupboard is empty. they have tried several players in the recent past (beer, lyon, krojza(sp?), agar, doherty, rogers, khawaja, marsh, cowen, hughes, smith, henriques, starc, cummins, bird, pattinson, wade etc.) and none of them has come good consistently. clarke may take over SRT's record of centuries in a lost cause at this rate.

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