My tribute to Charvaka's grandfather

i have earlier confessed to having a poor opinion of Charvaka's uncle. This uncle does not know proper sanskrit, cannot chant mantras properly, and yet continues to obtain fat daksinas from gullible people who think he knows all there is to know about the Vedas and who do not suspect the fraud.

On the other hand, i would like to confess my admiration for Charvaka's grandfather in this post. This grandfather was a humble temple priest but he did something remarkable. His younger sister became a widow at a young age. But he went ahead and performed the marriage ceremony of his young sister after he had found a suitable groom for her who was willing to marry a widow. When the other priests found out they threatened to ostracize him. Charvaka's grandfather negotiated with them and it was agreed that he would not be ostracized and he could continue being a priest providing he performs penance. This penance involved burning his own tongue with, from what i recall, a red hot iron rod.

The details of this story may be incorrect in some particulars--i had read Charvaka's post about his grandfather some years ago--but i think i have given the essence of what Charvaka's grandfather did. Note that at the time of Charvaka's grandfather it was a big deal for a hindu widow--particularly from a conservative family-- to remarry.

I would like to see all of us behave like Charvaka's grandfather. Let us do the right thing even if we have to perform penance or go through suffering because of doing the right thing.

Rashmun did you get to sleep:shock: ?

Rekz wrote:Rashmun did you get to sleep:shock: ?

--> i did sleep well. thanks for asking.

Are you the one who once posted that some pretty colleague complimented on your suit or something?

wha? this place is not fun anymore...

Rekz wrote:Are you the one who once posted that some pretty colleague complimented on your suit or something?

--> yes. that's me.

Impedimenta wrote:wha? this place is not fun anymore...

===> Don't worry.

I will post some more pictures of your heartthrob Dhanush.

Rashmun, it would better if you kept my family members out of CH discussions. Even when you used to drag the family members of other posters into CH discussions all those years ago, I told you you should not do it. In those instances, you claimed that "(s)he did it first, so I just responded" and you justified your uncivilized conduct with nonsense like "old Indian philosophers did, so I'm gonna do it." I know in this instance, I never once talked about your family, yet you seem to think you have some kind of power over me by referring to my uncle and grandfather.

Let me just say that it is most uncivilized to invoke another poster's family members in a discussion with them. It is an indirect way to concede that you have no substantive argument, and it is much worse than a straight-up concession.

As a grown-up, you have to make a decision whether you will continue to use this tactic of bringing in posters' family members into conversations. If you want to do that, there is nothing I can do to stop you*. I just wanted to let you know that it just reflects badly on you, not on me, to do what you did yesterday.

If you continue to bring up my uncle and grandfather going forward, I am not going to let that stop me from pointing out holes in your arguments or question your political views.

* You seem to make a big deal of my being admin here. No aspect of the discussions we had has been influenced in any way by my being admin. And it will not be influenced in future either.

charvaka wrote:Rashmun, it would better if you kept my family members out of CH discussions. Even when you used to drag the family members of other posters into CH discussions all those years ago, I told you you should not do it. In those instances, you claimed that "(s)he did it first, so I just responded" and you justified your uncivilized conduct with nonsense like "old Indian philosophers did, so I'm gonna do it." I know in this instance, I never once talked about your family, yet you seem to think you have some kind of power over me by referring to my uncle and grandfather.

Let me just say that it is most uncivilized to invoke another poster's family members in a discussion with them. It is an indirect way to concede that you have no substantive argument, and it is much worse than a straight-up concession.

As a grown-up, you have to make a decision whether you will continue to use this tactic of bringing in posters' family members into conversations. If you want to do that, there is nothing I can do to stop you*. I just wanted to let you know that it just reflects badly on you, not on me, to do what you did yesterday.

If you continue to bring up my uncle and grandfather going forward, I am not going to let that stop me from pointing out holes in your arguments or question your political views.

* You seem to make a big deal of my being admin here. No aspect of the discussions we had has been influenced in any way by my being admin. And it will not be influenced in future either.

--> if you use the low tactic of of coining and repeatedly using the phrase 'Rashmun Method' then i have the full right to talk of the 'Charvaka Uncle' Method. If you are going to call me 'shameless liar'--despite having bothered me for clarifications on Indian philosophy for a few years-- i have the full right to point out that you come from a family amongst who there are people a lot more shameless than me.

--> Btw, for many years now, your nemesis Seva has been making fun of the fact that you come from a family of priests who do not know proper Sanskrit, do not chant mantras properly, and continue to collect daksinas. I see no reason why i should not apply the Seva Method on you.

Rashmun wrote: Btw, for many years now, your nemesis Seva has been making fun of the fact that you come from a family of priests who do not know proper Sanskrit, do not chant mantras properly, and continue to collect daksinas. I see no reason why i should not apply the Seva Method on you.

Misquoting and lying is your only religion now? This is what Seva said:

Rashmun, I don't know if he was talking about his uncle, but he did say something to the effect that he hails from a family which had some men in the past practising as priests -- some of whom used to recite mantras (in Sanskrit) without knowing their proper pronunciation or meaning. - L.

and

No, I dont' recall about his uncle or Hyderabadi flats. I think he said something about his grandfather telling or teaching him the mantra / mantras during childhood (which Sandilya found quite unbelievable).

from the link: http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/attention-seva-1122843.htm#1122856

Tracy Whitney wrote:

Rashmun wrote: Btw, for many years now, your nemesis Seva has been making fun of the fact that you come from a family of priests who do not know proper Sanskrit, do not chant mantras properly, and continue to collect daksinas. I see no reason why i should not apply the Seva Method on you.

Misquoting and lying is your only religion now? This is what Seva said:

Rashmun, I don't know if he was talking about his uncle, but he did say something to the effect that he hails from a family which had some men in the past practising as priests -- some of whom used to recite mantras (in Sanskrit) without knowing their proper pronunciation or meaning. - L.

--> What Seva is saying that according to his recollection it was not just his uncle but in fact there are many others in Charvaka's family who are guilty of this fraud. The fraud consists of becoming priests without having sufficient knowledge of sanskrit and without having the ability to recite mantras properly. Seva's accusation against Charvaka is stronger than my accusation!

No, I dont' recall about his uncle or Hyderabadi flats. I think he said something about his grandfather telling or teaching him the mantra / mantras during childhood (which Sandilya found quite unbelievable).

--> The above is Seva's second response in connection with my second question: does he recall Charvaka mentioning that one of his uncles--who is also a priest--owns two flats in hyderabad? Seva says he does not recall this, but I do.

If Seva doesn't 'recall' ANY of the allegations that YOU are directing at Charvaka, then STOP MISQUOTING SEVA.

you see the point I am trying to make here? Quote Seva as Seva and quote yourself as yourself. DO NOT mix the two, or else you WILL be called a shameless liar.

Tracy Whitney wrote:If Seva doesn't 'recall' ANY of the allegations that YOU are directing at Charvaka, then STOP MISQUOTING SEVA.

you see the point I am trying to make here? Quote Seva as Seva and quote yourself as yourself. DO NOT mix the two, or else you WILL be called a shameless liar.

---> Seva recalls Charvaka saying he comes from a family of unscrupulous priests. i recall Charvaka talking about one of his uncles who was like this. It is possible Seva remembers one conversation with Charvaka while i remember another.

--> Btw, since your own credibility is in the mud, after you deliberately registered the handle 'QueenBee' on this forum, and since you gave me 10 negative votes in a matter of minutes, your abuses directed at me make no difference to me. Keep lying and slandering, after all you backstabbed your own good friend QueenBee with who you were friends with for more than 6 months. you revealed personal conversations QueenBee had with you to everyone on Sulekha CH. So what credibility do you have here? Zero as far as i am concerned.

--> do you remember what naveen nahata told you? he said he would have been very unhappy if he would have been married to you. i think its time for you to do some introspection.

it's not about my credibility, it's about you misquoting Seva. At this point it doesn't even matter what carvaka actually said. I just wished you stopped misquoting others in stating your arguments.

NN may have said he would be unhappy to marry me. He is much younger to me anyway. Point is, just coz he said that to me, does not make you a winner in this exchange.

Tracy Whitney wrote:it's not about my credibility, it's about you misquoting Seva. At this point it doesn't even matter what carvaka actually said. I just wished you stopped misquoting others in stating your arguments.

NN may have said he would be unhappy to marry me. He is much younger to me anyway. Point is, just coz he said that to me, does not make you a winner in this exchange.

--> since your credibility is in the mud, your opinion makes no difference at all.

Likewise, it doesn't matter whether my opinions matter to you or not. as long as I makes others see some validity in them, my job is done.

Tracy Whitney wrote:Likewise, it doesn't matter whether my opinions matter to you or not. as long as I makes others see some validity in them, my job is done.

--> After everyone came to know that you gave 10 negative votes to me in a matter of minutes to take your revenge for having called you out for registering the handle QueenBee on this forum and for backstabbing QueenBee by divulging your private discussions with her on Sulekha CH, my job was also done.

there's a slight difference. whatever I say is in quotes and links. Whatever you say is nowhere in print anywhere.

Tracy Whitney wrote:it's not about my credibility, it's about you misquoting Seva. At this point it doesn't even matter what carvaka actually said. I just wished you stopped misquoting others in stating your arguments.

NN may have said he would be unhappy to marry me. He is much younger to me anyway. Point is, just coz he said that to me, does not make you a winner in this exchange.

--> NN had said he would be very unhappy to have been married to you in a post where he confessed his complete disapproval of your conduct with respect to how you dealt with QueenBee.

Tracy Whitney wrote:there's a slight difference. whatever I say is in quotes and links. Whatever you say is nowhere in print anywhere.

--> keep lying.

Rashmun wrote:

--> Btw, since your own credibility is in the mud, after you deliberately registered the handle 'QueenBee' on this forum, and since you gave me 10 negative votes in a matter of minutes, your abuses directed at me make no difference to me.

ROFLMAO..... Thank you for that PRECISE definition of abuse. I agree that your dragging and name calling of Charvaka's family members is NOT - repeat NOT - an abuse, like many claim here.

(BTW, I gave a negative vote for your post... )

Rashmun wrote:if you use the low tactic of of coining and repeatedly using the phrase 'Rashmun Method' then i have the full right to talk of the 'Charvaka Uncle' Method.

OK, suit yourself. I am not my uncle, nor am I his keeper. Feel free to say what you will about him whenever you run out of logical responses.

Rashmun wrote:If you are going to call me 'shameless liar'--despite having bothered me for clarifications on Indian philosophy for a few years

This is the problem with you. You don't understand that the one has nothing to do with the other. I call you shameless liar because that is what you are. I call you a shameless liar because I have caught you lying a few times in the last few weeks. You may not understand it, but that has nothing to do with your knowledge of Indian philosophy, or my asking you questions about it. For the record, thank you for educating me about Indian philosophy and answering my questions back then. Just because someone taught me something does not mean I can't call out their lies.

Also for the record, here are the actual examples of when I caught you lying in the last few days.

1. You lied repeatedly that I had never expressed my opinion on Telangana for fear of antagonizing other Telugus. This despite easily available evidence on old CH that you could have looked up. You kept lying even after I gave that evidence to you.
https://such.forumotion.com/t2271-the-case-against-regional-parties#19448
https://such.forumotion.com/t2271p50-the-case-against-regional-parties#19464

2. You said you are merely repeating what I had said about my uncle, when you made some statements about him. When I challenged you, you ran to Seva for evidence, and came up short. Instead of recanting your statements, you keep up your lying.
https://such.forumotion.com/t2295-buttermilk-and#19711
https://such.forumotion.com/t2295-buttermilk-and#19713

3. You repeatedly claimed that I urged people to vote for BJP. I challenged you to produce evidence for that claim. You failed, after looking for it. At that point, instead of withdrawing your claim, you kept shamelessly repeating it.
https://such.forumotion.com/t2191-when-diggy-raja-made-bjp-rss-eat-crow#19030
https://such.forumotion.com/t2191-when-diggy-raja-made-bjp-rss-eat-crow#19043

4. We had an exchange regarding Bibi Nancharamma many years ago. A year after the original argument, you mischaracterized our discussion. I tried to correct, but you stood by your version. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. You repeated your false claim again here. And I looked it up and found that you were wrong all along. Even after I showed evidence that you were wrong all along, you continued with your false claims. Never once did you pause to say, hey I was wrong about that!
https://such.forumotion.com/t1986p100-ignore-rashmun#17435
https://such.forumotion.com/t1986p100-ignore-rashmun#17436

You have no regard for the truth, and you exhibit a pattern of brazen lying. That is what makes you a shameless liar.

Rashmun wrote:i have the full right to point out that you come from a family amongst who there are people a lot more shameless than me.

We will have to agree to disagree about who is more shameless: my uncle or you. I think you are more shameless, and you think he is. Either way, you are quite shameless.

Rashmun wrote:Btw, for many years now, your nemesis Seva has been making fun of the fact that you come from a family of priests who do not know proper Sanskrit, do not chant mantras properly, and continue to collect daksinas. I see no reason why i should not apply the Seva Method on you.

The Rashmun Method does have a lot of similarities with the Sevan Method, as TBT pointed out the other day. I am happy to note that you have finally decided to become a disciple of Sevaji; he has been looking for one all these years and I guess he will be happy to take you under his wing, despite all the names he called you in the past. Win-win for both of you there.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:if you use the low tactic of of coining and repeatedly using the phrase 'Rashmun Method' then i have the full right to talk of the 'Charvaka Uncle' Method.

OK, suit yourself. I am not my uncle, nor am I his keeper. Feel free to say what you will about him whenever you run out of logical responses.

--> Charvaka, you may keep up parroting your favourite 'lying' remark, but since your own credibility lies in tatters, you will find your abuses will not stick to me except in the mind of people like hellsangel, uppili and tracy.

--> i will give one example of your brazen dishonestly. with respect to your view on telangana i asked a simple question: are you for united andhra or separate telangana? you kept hedging, pussyfooting around, not answering me for quite some time. this was in my thread 'the case against regional parties'.

--> then you gave links to four suchforum threads in which i found posts by you in english and in telugu. your english posts did not answer my question.

--> when i kept persisting that you reveal your position on the matter, you gave a three year old sulekha post! In other words, my effort of going through four threads containing your posts was just a waste of time. you had deliberately sent me on a wild goose chase just for your laughs and kicks.

--> you also whined that i should have asked for a translation of your telugu posts!

--> idiot, why should i do all of this? why not just tell me your position of whether you are for separate telangana or united andhra? if you did not want to reveal your position then you should have stayed out of the thread 'the case against regional parties' in which telangana was being discussed.

Charvaka wrote:You have no regard for the truth, and you exhibit a pattern of brazen lying. That is what makes you a shameless liar.

--> Your words apply to all your family members who do not know sanskrit properly, do not know how to chant mantras properly, but continue to collect fat daksinas from gullible people.

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:i have the full right to point out that you come from a family amongst who there are people a lot more shameless than me.

We will have to agree to disagree about who is more shameless: my uncle or you. I think you are more shameless, and you think he is. Either way, you are quite shameless.

--> isn't it strange that you kept bothering a shameless liar for clarifications on Indian philosophy over a period of a few years?

Charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Btw, for many years now, your nemesis Seva has been making fun of the fact that you come from a family of priests who do not know proper Sanskrit, do not chant mantras properly, and continue to collect daksinas. I see no reason why i should not apply the Seva Method on you.

The Rashmun Method does have a lot of similarities with the Sevan Method, as TBT pointed out the other day. I am happy to note that you have finally decided to become a disciple of Sevaji; he has been looking for one all these years and I guess he will be happy to take you under his wing, despite all the names he called you in the past. Win-win for both of you there.

--> The Sevan Method is actually meant to counter the Charvaka Uncle Method. How the Sevan Method works is like this: it points out your upbringing and where you are coming from.

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:if you use the low tactic of of coining and repeatedly using the phrase 'Rashmun Method' then i have the full right to talk of the 'Charvaka Uncle' Method.

OK, suit yourself. I am not my uncle, nor am I his keeper. Feel free to say what you will about him whenever you run out of logical responses.

--> Charvaka, you may keep up parroting your favourite 'lying' remark, but since your own credibility lies in tatters, you will find your abuses will not stick to me except in the mind of people like hellsangel, uppili and tracy.

Congratulations of the careful selection of what you quoted. You nicely removed the proof of your lies. Good job. Let us hope for your sake that you are right about whose credibility lies in tatters, and who is abusing whom.

Rashmun wrote:--> i will give one example of your brazen dishonestly. with respect to your view on telangana i asked a simple question: are you for united andhra or separate telangana? you kept hedging, pussyfooting around, not answering me for quite some time. this was in my thread 'the case against regional parties'.

Before you make a claim like "you never stated your views," the onus is on you to make sure that I never stated my views. I was telling you, no I did state my views. All you needed to do was do a search for my views -- it was the first link in search results. But what you chose to do instead was repeat your lies! It shows what you would rather do: repeat false statements, rather than look for evidence to back up your claims.

Rashmun wrote:--> when i kept persisting that you reveal your position on the matter, you gave a three year old sulekha post! In other words, my effort of going through four threads containing your posts was just a waste of time. you had deliberately sent me on a wild goose chase just for your laughs and kicks.

You asked me for the names of some Telugu posters to whom I had expressed my views. That information was readily available on the threads I pointed you -- all the handle names are in English on those threads. So, no, I didn't send you on a wild-goose chase, I indulged you with an answer to your question.

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

charvaka wrote:

Rashmun wrote:if you use the low tactic of of coining and repeatedly using the phrase 'Rashmun Method' then i have the full right to talk of the 'Charvaka Uncle' Method.

OK, suit yourself. I am not my uncle, nor am I his keeper. Feel free to say what you will about him whenever you run out of logical responses.

--> Charvaka, you may keep up parroting your favourite 'lying' remark, but since your own credibility lies in tatters, you will find your abuses will not stick to me except in the mind of people like hellsangel, uppili and tracy.

Congratulations of the careful selection of what you quoted. You nicely removed the proof of your lies. Good job. Let us hope for your sake that you are right about whose credibility lies in tatters, and who is abusing whom.

Rashmun wrote:--> i will give one example of your brazen dishonestly. with respect to your view on telangana i asked a simple question: are you for united andhra or separate telangana? you kept hedging, pussyfooting around, not answering me for quite some time. this was in my thread 'the case against regional parties'.

Before you make a claim like "you never stated your views," the onus is on you to make sure that I never stated my views. I was telling you, no I did state my views. All you needed to do was do a search for my views -- it was the first link in search results. But what you chose to do instead was repeat your lies! It shows what you would rather do: repeat false statements, rather than look for evidence to back up your claims.

--> why should i have to search for your view on my simple question: are you for separate telangana or united andhra? you were participating in a thread in which telangana was being discussed. and i had asked a simple question.

--> and why did you have to give four suchforum threads--of your english and telugu posts--and then a sulekha CH post. why all this tomfoolery rather than just answer my simple question: are you for separate telangana or for united andhra.

--> i will tell you why. since you of a crooked mindset, like your uncle, you wanted to send me on a wild goose chase. you wanted to make me read the posts in all those four suchforum threads in which you knew you had not answered my question.

--> and then, hilariously, you whined that i did not ask for a translation of your telugu suchforum posts!

--> as mentioned earlier, your reputation is in the mud. continue on with the Charvaka Spin and the Charvaka Uncle Method.

Rashmun wrote:

Charvaka wrote:You have no regard for the truth, and you exhibit a pattern of brazen lying. That is what makes you a shameless liar.

--> Your words apply to all your family members who do not know sanskrit properly, do not know how to chant mantras properly, but continue to collect fat daksinas from gullible people.

OK, so what? You are still a shameless liar. My entire family may have no regard for the truth, but that doesn't make you anything more than a shameless liar, does it?

Rashmun wrote:--> isn't it strange that you kept bothering a shameless liar for clarifications on Indian philosophy over a period of a few years?

If you were lying shamelessly back then, it is unlikely I would have asked you any questions. Are you telling me that you were indeed lying shamelessly back then as well?

Rashmun wrote:--> The Sevan Method is actually meant to counter the Charvaka Uncle Method. How the Sevan Method works is like this: it points out your upbringing and where you are coming from.

It also "pointed out" your upbringing. In more colorful terms, I might add. But that's neither here nor there.

Rashmun wrote:

Tracy Whitney wrote:it's not about my credibility, it's about you misquoting Seva. At this point it doesn't even matter what carvaka actually said. I just wished you stopped misquoting others in stating your arguments.

NN may have said he would be unhappy to marry me. He is much younger to me anyway. Point is, just coz he said that to me, does not make you a winner in this exchange.

--> NN had said he would be very unhappy to have been married to you in a post where he confessed his complete disapproval of your conduct with respect to how you dealt with QueenBee.

I had thought of asking Cro about it, but I guess I don't need to. The burden of proof is on you. Prove that he said it. He may have said one thing or the other, but PROVE that he said the thing that you said above in one post, even thread. Unless you prove it, and given your track record, I am going to assume you are lying. You can say you don't care, but that's how it is.

Tracy Whitney wrote:it's not about my credibility, it's about you misquoting Seva. At this point it doesn't even matter what carvaka actually said. I just wished you stopped misquoting others in stating your arguments.

All indications are that he won't abandon the Rashmun Method any time soon.

Tracy Whitney wrote:iUnless you prove it, and given your track record, I am going to assume you are lying.

Unfortunately, based on his track record, that is a reasonable assumption. My wife accuses me of being an eternal optimist, so let us see if he can provide proof of at least this claim. Everybody deserves a fifth chance.

rashmun= congress and charvaka= tdp?

Rashmun,

1. Who says you have to have a position in a discussion? It is perfectly legitimate to be ambivalent , to be gathering your thoughts and to think aloud. Charvaka not taking a stand on telangana is not grounds for anything

2. if someone called you names, you can call them names right back. not their family. it is more childish than "agar maa ka doodh piya ho to".

All indications are that he won't abandon the Rashmun Method any time soon.
If people dislike his posts, they should just ignore them. Why respond and/or retaliate? This will stop the friction.

Rashmun wrote:--> why should i have to search for your view on my simple question: are you for separate telangana or united andhra? you were participating in a thread in which telangana was being discussed. and i had asked a simple question

yes. he could have simply expressed his views (to a simple question posed by you) and carried on with the discussion instead of setting up minefields for you. i agree with you fully on this score.

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:

Rashmun wrote:--> why should i have to search for your view on my simple question: are you for separate telangana or united andhra? you were participating in a thread in which telangana was being discussed. and i had asked a simple question

yes. he could have simply expressed his views (to a simple question posed by you) and carried on with the discussion instead of setting up minefields for you. i agree with you fully on this score.

LOL @ instead of setting up minefields for you

Huzefa Kapasi wrote:instead of setting up minefields for you. i agree with you fully on this score.

And I, with you. I wish I hadn't set up that minefield for him to eagerly jump into!

No more minefields, no speeding, no -votes.

Priya wrote:No more minefields, no speeding, no -votes.