Andhra Pradesh: 'Hindi played a key role in the freedom struggle'

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:At some point of time i foresee english being the link language of India but it cannot serve that purpose now since only 5% of Indians know english.

If you repeat a lie a thousand times, you might think it becomes true. But that's not how the real world works. Per the 2001 census, over 12% of Indians speak English. The language numbers from the 2011 census are not out yet, but the number will be significantly higher now. Also, when questioned about the illiteracy of Hindians, you mentioned that the need for a link language is particularly for the middle class. Most of the English speakers in India are the middle class. If you say that 20% of Indians are in the middle class, it is clear from these numbers that a big majority of them speak English.

I know your preference is to come up with more hare-brained excuses to focus yourself on "Hindi in the south." While you neglect the plight of millions of illiterate Hindians in UP. But have a heart, and do something about your fellow Hindians.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-03-14/india/28117934_1_second-language-speakers-urdu

The possibility cannot be ruled out that even if someone is able to understand english but not speak it (or even spoke 'broken english'--not good enough for effective communication) they are claiming they know english. In UP, which accounts for around one fifth of India's population i am pretty sure the people knowing english is less than 5 percent. Furthermore i have said in an earlier post that the 5 percent figure does not apply to Tamil Nadu in my opinion.

BHAVANI: Students must learn English, Hindi and computer science to be competitive, Supreme Court judge Justice P. Sathasivam has said.

Participating at a function organised in his honour at the Government Higher Secondary School, Singampettai, his alma mater, he said at a time when very many multinational companies had set up and were setting up industries because of liberalisation, students had job opportunities in plenty, which they must make use of.

To do so, they must be as competent in English as in Tamil. “Good command over English will you put in good stead and help get a job,” he told the students.

He then highlighted the recent statement of the Honorary Director of Sarva Siksha Abiyan, M.P. Vijayakumar, who had said that the government was taking steps to improve students’ communication in English.

Develop proficiency
Mr. Justice Sathasivam also asked the students to develop proficiency in Hindi. Recalling his short stint as the Chief Justice of the High Court in Chandigarh, he said in most of the North Indian states Hindi was the medium of communication, which if the students learnt would do well to get placed in industries or companies there.

“The States [North Indian] are also fast becoming industrialised and in becoming so, plenty of job opportunities are being created. The students to get employed there, will do well to have a mastery of the language.”

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/30/stories/2009063054900500.htm

Hindi Prachar Sabha's services lauded

Special Correspondent
CHENNAI: For thousands of students who gathered at the Hindi Prachar Sabha here on Monday, it was time to celebrate. The students, who had cleared different levels of Hindi examinations offered by the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, were there to participate in the 74 {+t} {+h} convocation of the institution.

Speaking on the occasion, president and chancellor of the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Madras, Justice V.S. Malimath said the institution was growing from strength to strength. Its willingness to adopt a forward-looking, creative approach was evident from the way the institution had “substantially improved” its curriculum and syllabus for the examinations.

It was in the process of receiving affiliation from the Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) for the schools it is running and it was another facet of the progressive development, said Mr. Malimath, who is the former Chief Justice of Karnataka.

He urged students to always remember that they studied at an institution of national importance, established by Mahatma Gandhi.

Vineet Joshi, Chairman, CBSE, inaugurated the new building of Mahathma Gandhi Vidyalaya on the Hindi Prachar Sabha premises, in T. Nagar.

http://www.hindu.com/2011/03/31/stories/2011033155070400.htm

(2) Tamil cannot be compared to Hindi, not because Hindi is superior to Tamil (I hold all languages in equal respect) but because it is much more widespread. Tamil is only spoken in Tamil Nadu, which has a population of 72 million. But Hindi is spoken not only in the Hindi belt, but in most non-Hindi states as a second language. In the Hindi belt there are 200 million people in Uttar Pradesh, 82 million in Bihar, 75 million in Madhya Pradesh, 69 million in Rajasthan, 27 million in Jharkhand, 26 million in Chhattisgarh, 26 million in Haryana, and seven million in Himachal Pradesh. Taking into account Hindi speakers in the non-Hindi belt in India (Punjab, West Bengal, Kashmir, Orissa, Assam and other North Eastern States,Telangana, etc), the number of Hindi speakers would be about 15 times that of Tamil speakers. Apart from that, Pakistanis (who number about 200 million) also speak Hindi, though they call it Urdu. How then can Tamil be compared with Hindi? Tamil is only a regional language, while Hindi is a national language. This is not because Hindi is superior to Tamil, but due to certain historical and social reasons.

(3) English is the link language only for the elite in India, and not for the common man. Anyone coming from Tamil Nadu to other parts of India will realise this. Without knowing Hindi he will experience great difficulty (in fact one of the Tamilian judges in the Supreme Court told me very recently that he had made a great mistake in not learning Hindi since he was finding it difficult in Delhi, but now he has started learning Hindi ). Only about five per cent of Indians know English (though I myself have appealed to people to learn English, since much of the knowledge of the world is in English, and I have strongly criticised those who say “Angrezi Hatao (abolish English”). In fact Hindi is already the link language for Indians, even for many South Indians, as I had explained in my article.

(4) When I was Chief Justice of the Madras High Court, I once went to a shop in Madurai. To my surprise I heard the Tamilian shopkeeper speaking to someone on the telephone in Hindi. Since I had picked up some Tamil I said to him, “Romba nalla Hindi pesreenga. Eppadi? (You are speaking such good Hindi. How is that?”) He replied, “Arasiyalle Hindi vendaamnu solvaanga, aanaa engalikku business pananum. Adnaal kathukitten. (Politicians say that we do not want Hindi, but we have to do business. So I have learnt Hindi”). I think this shopkeeper had more sense than those who oppose Hindi

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/think-rationally-about-learning-hindi-and-it-will-make-sense/article3942784.ece

here is a rational thought for mark katju: communication is a two way street. what you'd like to do is unjust -- pass on the entire cost of communication to one of the two parties doing the communication. i hope the fact that it is unjust appeals to your sense of justice. you are some kind of retired judge aren't you?

you are also furthering the canard that hindi is the national language. hindi is not the national language. neither is hindi a national language, not is it the national language. it is a regional language, albeit one spoken by a large portion of the nation.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is a rational thought for mark katju: communication is a two way street. what you'd like to do is unjust -- pass on the entire cost of communication to one of the two parties doing the communication. i hope the fact that it is unjust appeals to your sense of justice. you are some kind of retired judge aren't you?

you are also furthering the canard that hindi is the national language. hindi is not the national language. neither is hindi a national language, not is it the national language. it is a regional language, albeit one spoken by a large portion of the nation.

Justice Malimath and Justice Sathasivam agree with Justice Katju.

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is a rational thought for mark katju: communication is a two way street. what you'd like to do is unjust -- pass on the entire cost of communication to one of the two parties doing the communication. i hope the fact that it is unjust appeals to your sense of justice. you are some kind of retired judge aren't you?

you are also furthering the canard that hindi is the national language. hindi is not the national language. neither is hindi a national language, not is it the national language. it is a regional language, albeit one spoken by a large portion of the nation.

Justice Malimath and Justice Sathasivam agree with Justice Katju.

i am capable of doing my own analysis without any help from any justice.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is a rational thought for mark katju: communication is a two way street. what you'd like to do is unjust -- pass on the entire cost of communication to one of the two parties doing the communication. i hope the fact that it is unjust appeals to your sense of justice. you are some kind of retired judge aren't you?

you are also furthering the canard that hindi is the national language. hindi is not the national language. neither is hindi a national language, not is it the national language. it is a regional language, albeit one spoken by a large portion of the nation.

Justice Malimath and Justice Sathasivam agree with Justice Katju.

i am capable of doing my own analysis without any help from any justice.

Good for you.

While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

Delivering the convocation address at the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Prakash said the three-language policy, wherein people learn a third language in addition to their native tongue and English, was envisaged to usher in national unity. "It is not just about others learning Hindi. I am of the opinion that if it is necessary for the development of Indianness that non-Hindi speakers should learn Hindi, it is also necessary that the Hindi speaking population should be given the opportunity to learn other languages," he said. The UGC Chairman said the skill of articulating in a coherent manner was something missing among a majority of students in the country. While sound technical knowledge was a necessity, unless the student was able to convey what he learnt in a fluent manner, such learning will have little benefits.

"In most colleges, the skill of the tongue is missing among the students. This is something which has to be focused on priority. In this regard, a competent bilingual group will always have an edge over its counterparts," he pointed out and added that modern India also needed a scientific approach in teaching languages so that it is taken to the people through technology.
Earlier, 3,671 students received their degree certificates in person from the Sabha. About five lakh students appear for the examinations conducted through the four provincial sabhas of Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuFVj3slF_g

In european countries like Norway i am given to understand that students grow up learning four languages. Why can't Indian students learn three languages? They need not be experts at these languages--they just need to know enough to be able to communicate.

Rashmun wrote:In european countries like Norway i am given to understand that students grow up learning four languages. Why can't Indian students learn three languages? They need not be experts at these languages--they just need to know enough to be able to communicate.

A valid response is that on the one hand there are people who cannot read and write in even one language and on the other i am advocating Indian students to learn three languages. My response is that we must adopt a two pronged policy: on the one hand we must create the opportunity for students to learn three languages and on the other we must make efforts for the poorest people to be literate in at least one language. This is still a tentative view pending further reflection on the issue.

Rashmun wrote:[i]While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

literacy would improve overall marketability even more.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:[i]While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

literacy would improve overall marketability even more.

suppose all indians are literate in at least one language in future. what next?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:here is a rational thought for mark katju: communication is a two way street. what you'd like to do is unjust -- pass on the entire cost of communication to one of the two parties doing the communication. i hope the fact that it is unjust appeals to your sense of justice. you are some kind of retired judge aren't you?

you are also furthering the canard that hindi is the national language. hindi is not the national language. neither is hindi a national language, not is it the national language. it is a regional language, albeit one spoken by a large portion of the nation.

Markandey Katju has his own facebook page where propagates some of his nutcase views.

https://www.facebook.com/justicekatju?fref=ts

Justice Malimath and Justice Sathasivam agree with Katju. It is strange that south indian judges are not being singled out for criticism even when they agree with a north indian judge.

Having made signal contribution to the freedom struggle, Tamil Nadu must be in the vanguard in promoting teaching of our national language Hindi, Justice V.S. Malimath, Chancellor & President Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Chennai, said here on Sunday.

The national poet Subramania Bharathi in his article Young India published in 1905 had emphasised the need and importance of our people learning Hindi, Justice Malimath said, while delivering the convocation address at the 13th Visharad Convocation of Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Tamil Nadu.

"We must remember that Hindi has a place of pride in the languages spoken in the world, the language spoken by the third largest number of people in the world next only to Chinese and English. Hindi is spoken by the largest number of people in India." Justice Malimath said.

Founded by Mahatma Gandhi in 1918, the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha has a unique and distinguished heritage and enjoys a pride of place in the nation. People of South India are fortunate that they are blessed with such a great institution to foster teaching of Hindi to our people. "We must take full advantage of the same and become active participants in the nation building activity", Justice Malimath pointed out.

It was after an enormous struggle and great sacrifices that we were able to break the shackles of slavery and become a free and independent nation. People from all parts of India joined the freedom struggle irrespective of their religion, caste, creed or language.

"People of India must live together as members of one family if we have to preserve Independence and maintain unity and integrity of our nation. It is for this reason that the founding fathers of our constitution chose Hindi our national language", Justice Malimath said. He congratulated the students for attaining proficiency in Hindi.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tamil-nadu/article71427.ece

Hellsangel wrote:Assignment of the day: Define Hindia for urbandictionary.com

OK. I took a shot at this. Anyone else wants to have a go?

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:[i]While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

literacy would improve overall marketability even more.

suppose all indians are literate in at least one language in future. what next?

the breeziness with which you say that tells me you have no clue what it takes to undertake and execute a public policy project and produce results. i don't either, but my father did this for a good part of his career as a government servant, and i know from watching him that it is an enormous undertaking with a lot of frustrations! please give up this quixotic nonsense and focus on teaching basic reading and writing skills to unlettered utthar pradeshis if you have an itch to do some public service. tamilians who want to learn hindi are already doing so and can take care of themselves quite well without your help.

Rashmun wrote: Chief Justice of the Madras High Court

1) Why are people who do not know Tamil appointed Chief Justice of TN? The judge should know the local language

2) Why is it called Madras High Court and not TN High Court?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

Rashmun wrote:[i]While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

literacy would improve overall marketability even more.

suppose all indians are literate in at least one language in future. what next?

the breeziness with which you say that tells me you have no clue what it takes to undertake and execute a public policy project and produce results. i don't either, but my father did this for a good part of his career as a government servant, and i know from watching him that it is an enormous undertaking with a lot of frustrations! please give up this quixotic nonsense and focus on teaching basic reading and writing skills to unlettered utthar pradeshis if you have an itch to do some public service. tamilians who want to learn hindi are already doing so and can take care of themselves quite well without your help.

with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Rashmun wrote:with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

Rashmun wrote:Hindi Prachar Sabha's services lauded

Special Correspondent
CHENNAI: For thousands of students who gathered at the Hindi Prachar Sabha here on Monday, it was time to celebrate. The students, who had cleared different levels of Hindi examinations offered by the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, were there to participate in the 74 {+t} {+h} convocation of the institution.

Speaking on the occasion, president and chancellor of the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Madras, Justice V.S. Malimath said the institution was growing from strength to strength. Its willingness to adopt a forward-looking, creative approach was evident from the way the institution had “substantially improved” its curriculum and syllabus for the examinations.

It was in the process of receiving affiliation from the Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) for the schools it is running and it was another facet of the progressive development, said Mr. Malimath, who is the former Chief Justice of Karnataka.

He urged students to always remember that they studied at an institution of national importance, established by Mahatma Gandhi.

Vineet Joshi, Chairman, CBSE, inaugurated the new building of Mahathma Gandhi Vidyalaya on the Hindi Prachar Sabha premises, in T. Nagar.

http://www.hindu.com/2011/03/31/stories/2011033155070400.htm

CBI has arrested a school Principal here for allegedly taking bribe from a student.

CBI laid a trap following information that Malika Arjun, Principal of a school under the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, was insisting for bribe from those who had passed in various courses and were awaiting their certificates.

They had information that the principal had taken bribes ranging from Rs 3000-10,000 from many students to issues certificates, CBI sources said.

He was arrested yesterday while taking bribe from a student.

He was produced before CBI special court here today which remanded him to 14 days judicial custody.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cbi-arrests-school-principal-for-taking-bribes-from-students/1027686

Rashmun wrote:While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

Delivering the convocation address at the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Prakash said the three-language policy, wherein people learn a third language in addition to their native tongue and English, was envisaged to usher in national unity. "It is not just about others learning Hindi. I am of the opinion that if it is necessary for the development of Indianness that non-Hindi speakers should learn Hindi, it is also necessary that the Hindi speaking population should be given the opportunity to learn other languages," he said. The UGC Chairman said the skill of articulating in a coherent manner was something missing among a majority of students in the country. While sound technical knowledge was a necessity, unless the student was able to convey what he learnt in a fluent manner, such learning will have little benefits.

"In most colleges, the skill of the tongue is missing among the students. This is something which has to be focused on priority. In this regard, a competent bilingual group will always have an edge over its counterparts," he pointed out and added that modern India also needed a scientific approach in teaching languages so that it is taken to the people through technology.
Earlier, 3,671 students received their degree certificates in person from the Sabha. About five lakh students appear for the examinations conducted through the four provincial sabhas of Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuFVj3slF_g

These people don't care about illiterate Hindians. They want to use scarce public funds to teach southern Indians to read and write in three languages, while millions of Hindians are illiterate. Do they hate their own illiterate brethren?

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

My statement applies not just to UPites but also to Gultis. Is it not better to teach illiterate Gultis to read and write in english rather than in telugu? they can continue having a knowledge of spoken hindi or spoken telugu. This, by the way, is not practical as of today but it is something to think about going forward.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:While it is commendable that people attach much regard and respect to their mother tongue, the implementation of the three-language policy in letter and spirit would improve their overall marketability, UGC Chairman Ved Prakash said here on Sunday.

Delivering the convocation address at the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachar Sabha, Prakash said the three-language policy, wherein people learn a third language in addition to their native tongue and English, was envisaged to usher in national unity. "It is not just about others learning Hindi. I am of the opinion that if it is necessary for the development of Indianness that non-Hindi speakers should learn Hindi, it is also necessary that the Hindi speaking population should be given the opportunity to learn other languages," he said. The UGC Chairman said the skill of articulating in a coherent manner was something missing among a majority of students in the country. While sound technical knowledge was a necessity, unless the student was able to convey what he learnt in a fluent manner, such learning will have little benefits.

"In most colleges, the skill of the tongue is missing among the students. This is something which has to be focused on priority. In this regard, a competent bilingual group will always have an edge over its counterparts," he pointed out and added that modern India also needed a scientific approach in teaching languages so that it is taken to the people through technology.
Earlier, 3,671 students received their degree certificates in person from the Sabha. About five lakh students appear for the examinations conducted through the four provincial sabhas of Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuFVj3slF_g

These people don't care about illiterate Hindians. They want to use scarce public funds to teach southern Indians to read and write in three languages, while millions of Hindians are illiterate. Do they hate their own illiterate brethren?

Many Gultis including illiterate Gultis consider Hindi their national language. They do not wish to be deprived of their right to learn Hindi. The Telugu leader Chandrababu Naidu has learnt Hindi despite his busy schedule; he is an example to other Gultis.

Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

My statement applies not just to UPites but also to Gultis. Is it not better to teach illiterate Gultis to read and write in english rather than in telugu? they can continue having a knowledge of spoken hindi or spoken telugu. This, by the way, is not practical as of today but it is something to think about going forward.

So this is your solution to the "complex problems" of illiteracy: make it a lot more complex by adding in the challenge of teaching a whole new language, not just teaching to read and write a language they already know! No wonder Hindians of UP have such high levels of illiteracy.

Rashmun wrote:They do not wish to be deprived of their right to learn Hindi.

Nobody is depriving Telugu people who want to learn Hindi of that option. Instead of wasting your time on red herrings, you should focus your attention on the serious problem of illiteracy among UP Hindians.

Rashmun wrote:Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Do you agree with Justice Malimath that India's future lies in southern India?

DHARWAD: The future of the nation lies in south India as south Indian states have the potential required to build a strong and healthy nation, said Justice (retired) V S Malimath.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-12/hubli/28251564_1_chief-justice-indian-states-judiciary

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Do you agree with Justice Malimath that India's future lies in southern India?

DHARWAD: The future of the nation lies in south India as south Indian states have the potential required to build a strong and healthy nation, said Justice (retired) V S Malimath.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-12/hubli/28251564_1_chief-justice-indian-states-judiciary

Are you seriously expecting a straight answer from him on this?

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

My statement applies not just to UPites but also to Gultis. Is it not better to teach illiterate Gultis to read and write in english rather than in telugu? they can continue having a knowledge of spoken hindi or spoken telugu. This, by the way, is not practical as of today but it is something to think about going forward.

So this is your solution to the "complex problems" of illiteracy: make it a lot more complex by adding in the challenge of teaching a whole new language, not just teaching to read and write a language they already know! No wonder Hindians of UP have such high levels of illiteracy.

Everyone needs to have a knowledge of english going forward. Telugu is a regional language and at some point of time in the future most telugus even in India may not be knowing telugu. We need to embrace english.
For the time being, since a common language is required for citizens throughout the country to communicate, Hindi can serve this purpose since the majority of Indians know Hindi particularly in urban India as is evident by the great popularity of Hindi movies all over India. Notice that the hindi movie industry is in Maharashtra and not in the Hindi heartland.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Do you agree with Justice Malimath that India's future lies in southern India?

DHARWAD: The future of the nation lies in south India as south Indian states have the potential required to build a strong and healthy nation, said Justice (retired) V S Malimath.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-12/hubli/28251564_1_chief-justice-indian-states-judiciary

No i do not. Northern states are becoming industrialized and southerners are going there for employment opportunities (just as northerners are also coming to the south for the same reason). In this respect i agree with Justice Sathasivam.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:with respect to those who are completely unlettered: is it better not to teach them hindi at all, and instead teach them english?

Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

My statement applies not just to UPites but also to Gultis. Is it not better to teach illiterate Gultis to read and write in english rather than in telugu? they can continue having a knowledge of spoken hindi or spoken telugu. This, by the way, is not practical as of today but it is something to think about going forward.

So this is your solution to the "complex problems" of illiteracy: make it a lot more complex by adding in the challenge of teaching a whole new language, not just teaching to read and write a language they already know! No wonder Hindians of UP have such high levels of illiteracy.

Everyone needs to have a knowledge of english going forward. Telugu is a regional language and at some point of time in the future most telugus even in India may not be knowing telugu. We need to embrace english.
For the time being, since a common language is required for citizens throughout the country to communicate, Hindi can serve this purpose since the majority of Indians know Hindi particularly in urban India as is evident by the great popularity of Hindi movies all over India. Notice that the hindi movie industry is in Maharashtra and not in the Hindi heartland.

You are losing your mind over this problem. I suggest you undertake the reflection you promised to, and think about the horrible plight of the millions of Hindians whom your state has failed to teach to read and write.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:Must you really be this dense? Or do you want to demonstrate that your knowledge of UP is just as bad as your knowledge of TN? Those illiterate Hindians do know Hindi. You don't have to teach them the language; you have to teach them to read and write the only language they know.

My statement applies not just to UPites but also to Gultis. Is it not better to teach illiterate Gultis to read and write in english rather than in telugu? they can continue having a knowledge of spoken hindi or spoken telugu. This, by the way, is not practical as of today but it is something to think about going forward.

So this is your solution to the "complex problems" of illiteracy: make it a lot more complex by adding in the challenge of teaching a whole new language, not just teaching to read and write a language they already know! No wonder Hindians of UP have such high levels of illiteracy.

Everyone needs to have a knowledge of english going forward. Telugu is a regional language and at some point of time in the future most telugus even in India may not be knowing telugu. We need to embrace english.
For the time being, since a common language is required for citizens throughout the country to communicate, Hindi can serve this purpose since the majority of Indians know Hindi particularly in urban India as is evident by the great popularity of Hindi movies all over India. Notice that the hindi movie industry is in Maharashtra and not in the Hindi heartland.

You are losing your mind over this problem. I suggest you undertake the reflection you promised to, and think about the horrible plight of the millions of Hindians whom your state has failed to teach to read and write.

My nation comes before my state. Gultis are as dear to me as UPites.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Do you agree with Justice Malimath that India's future lies in southern India?

DHARWAD: The future of the nation lies in south India as south Indian states have the potential required to build a strong and healthy nation, said Justice (retired) V S Malimath.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-12/hubli/28251564_1_chief-justice-indian-states-judiciary

No i do not. Northern states are becoming industrialized and southerners are going there for employment opportunities. In this respect i agree with Justice Sathasivam.

See, that's the problem with arguing using the words of other people! Hope this serves as a lesson for you and prompts a change in your Method. (Hope is one thing, but I don't think it will.)

Rashmun wrote:My nation comes before my state. Gultis are as dear to me as UPites.

If you cared about your nation, you would focus on the more serious problem when it comes to education in India: the problem of millions and millions of illiterate Hindians. You want to focus on teaching southern Indians to read and write in three languages, and you don't want to focus on teaching those Hindians to read and write even one language. This is perverse and hateful discrimination against illiterate Hindians on your part. Kindly reflect on this, as you promised to do.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:Dakshin Bharat Hindi Prachar Samiti's President Justice Malimath is a man of high integrity.

Do you agree with Justice Malimath that India's future lies in southern India?

DHARWAD: The future of the nation lies in south India as south Indian states have the potential required to build a strong and healthy nation, said Justice (retired) V S Malimath.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-12/hubli/28251564_1_chief-justice-indian-states-judiciary

No i do not. Northern states are becoming industrialized and southerners are going there for employment opportunities. In this respect i agree with Justice Sathasivam.

See, that's the problem with arguing using the words of other people! Hope this serves as a lesson for you and prompts a change in your Method. (Hope is one thing, but I don't think it will.)

There is nothing wrong in listening to the opinion of others, analyzing their opinions using your reason and experience, and then agreeing or disagreeing with that opinion. furthermore, in this case i am listening to the views of a supreme court judge and not any pp or qq.

Hellsangel wrote:

thank you. i was surprised to find that the percentage of illiterates are more in AP than in UP.

Rashmun wrote:

thank you. i was surprised to find that the percentage of illiterates are more in AP than in UP.

And what should be the first focus for them? To teach them to read and write in...?

Rashmun wrote:(2) Tamil cannot be compared to Hindi, not because Hindi is superior to Tamil (I hold all languages in equal respect) but because it is much more widespread. Tamil is only spoken in Tamil Nadu, which has a population of 72 million. But Hindi is spoken not only in the Hindi belt, but in most non-Hindi states as a second language. In the Hindi belt there are 200 million people in Uttar Pradesh, 82 million in Bihar, 75 million in Madhya Pradesh, 69 million in Rajasthan, 27 million in Jharkhand, 26 million in Chhattisgarh, 26 million in Haryana, and seven million in Himachal Pradesh. Taking into account Hindi speakers in the non-Hindi belt in India (Punjab, West Bengal, Kashmir, Orissa, Assam and other North Eastern States,Telangana, etc), the number of Hindi speakers would be about 15 times that of Tamil speakers. Apart from that, Pakistanis (who number about 200 million) also speak Hindi, though they call it Urdu. How then can Tamil be compared with Hindi? Tamil is only a regional language, while Hindi is a national language. This is not because Hindi is superior to Tamil, but due to certain historical and social reasons.

Rashmun: I agree that Tamil Nadu or for that matter the southern states are outnumbered by the hindi-belt populace. But these states, that you claim to speak the national language, ought to be concerned with improving their woefully disproportionate GDP contribution and tax revenues to India as compared to the southern states. You might want to dwell on the following:

As per census data 2011, the total population of India is: 1.21 billion with more than 50% below the age of 25. About 72.2% of the population lives in villages and the rest 27.8% in towns and urban agglomerations. The 4 southern states account for 20.8% of the total population as compared to the 6 hindi-belt states representing 41.6%. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_population)

India's GDP in 2011-2012 was Rs. 8,279,976 crores or USD 1505.5 billion. The 4 southern states contributed 25.4% of GDP versus the 6 hindi-belt states' contribution of 22.3%.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_by_GDP).

India's education spending as a % of GDP is 4.1% and its world ranking is #81 out of 132 countries. (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gd). The Indian literacy rate grew to 74.04% in 2011. It consists of male literacy rate 82.14% and female literacy rate is 65.46%. But the level is well below the world average literacy rate of 84% and India currently has the largest illiterate population of any nation on earth. About half of all Indian illiterates (48.12%) are in the six Hindi-speaking states of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand and Chhattisgarh. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_literacy_rate).

Hellsangel wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

thank you. i was surprised to find that the percentage of illiterates are more in AP than in UP.

And what should be the first focus for them? To teach them to read and write in...?

First Hindi, then English.

Hellsangel wrote:

Rashmun wrote:

thank you. i was surprised to find that the percentage of illiterates are more in AP than in UP.

And what should be the first focus for them? To teach them to read and write in...?

with respect to teaching illiterates english i had clarified that this is not practical now but i can be reflected upon going forward. for instance, if after 30 or 40 years there still remain illiterates in India, would it not be better to teach them written english rather than written telugu or written hindi? what about after 100 years? will most people be learning written telugu or even written hindi after 100 years?

In the U.S. most people i meet are only able to read and write english even if they are italians or germans or polish etc.

If you expect illiteracy to be a problem for India a hundred years from now, no wonder you don't care about those millions of illiterate Hindians!

What i said was not that there will be illiterates in India a 100 years from now but whether most people in India will be learning to read or write hindi and telugu a 100 years from now. Since after a 100 years from now i believe the knowledge of english would be widespread across India and since it is a world language the importance of english will keep increasing.

Rashmun wrote:What i said was not that there will be illiterates in India a 100 years from now but whether most people in India will be learning to read or write hindi and telugu a 100 years from now. Since after a 100 years from now i believe the knowledge of english would be widespread across India and since it is a world language the importance of english will keep increasing.

Well, there are more urgent problems for you to think about. Let me give you two keywords to refresh your memory: millions Hindians.

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:What i said was not that there will be illiterates in India a 100 years from now but whether most people in India will be learning to read or write hindi and telugu a 100 years from now. Since after a 100 years from now i believe the knowledge of english would be widespread across India and since it is a world language the importance of english will keep increasing.

Well, there are more urgent problems for you to think about. Let me give you two keywords to refresh your memory: millions Hindians.

would it upset you if Telugu were to become extinct as a language in future? (In other words if it becomes another sanskrit). As english continues to spread in India i believe this may well happen at some point of time in the future.

Since India has the largest number of illiterates in the world of which almost half are in the 6 hindi-belt states, would it not make sense to teach them to read and write any language so they improve their own economic status as well as share in the nation's fiscal burden proportionately?

goodcitizn wrote:Since India has the largest number of illiterates in the world of which almost half are in the 6 hindi-belt states, would it not make sense to teach them to read and write any language so they improve their own economic process and share in the nation's fiscal burden proportionately?

would it upset you if Tamil were to become extinct as a language in future? (In other words if it becomes another sanskrit). As english continues to spread in India i believe this may well happen at some point of time in the future.

Rashmun wrote:

panini press wrote:

Rashmun wrote:What i said was not that there will be illiterates in India a 100 years from now but whether most people in India will be learning to read or write hindi and telugu a 100 years from now. Since after a 100 years from now i believe the knowledge of english would be widespread across India and since it is a world language the importance of english will keep increasing.

Well, there are more urgent problems for you to think about. Let me give you two keywords to refresh your memory: millions Hindians.

would it upset you if Telugu were to become extinct as a language in future? (In other words if it becomes another sanskrit). As english continues to spread in India i believe this may well happen at some point of time in the future.

If it happens, it happens. I don't worry myself about those scenarios. There are more urgent problems to worry about, like millions of illiterate Hindians and Telugus who should be taught to read and write in the only language they know.