The true calculus of political mass murder

A few months ago, there was a discussion here about communal riots in India and the death tolls from those riots. I said that the known evidence points to a disproportionately high Muslim death toll in communal riots in India. Some posters disputed this, based on what they had themselves heard from other sources. Given the nature of communal violence, it is hard to obtain accurate official reports of casualties, and anecdotal evidence often informs opinions.

In my observation, it is a common belief among Hindus in India that Muslims cause, and do most of the killing in, most communal riots. A widely-held belief on the Muslim side, as I mentioned in passing in another thread, is that Muslims die for the most part, and that's because the better-armed police actively targets them or assists the Hindu mob. Organizations claiming to represent Hindus -- like the RSS and its more militant affiliates -- routinely claim that Muslims start riots and kill Hindus, and they paint themselves as playing a purely defensive and retaliatory role to protect Hindus from Muslim violence. This idea that Hindus need to fight back in their own defense helps them recruit people who might otherwise be unwilling to support their divisive ideology. This idea has taken root among Hindus, giving rise to the fear expressed by people like Uppili that Merlot parodies here.

It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment. Praveen Togadia of the VHP recently told a meeting of his supporters that the widely-peddled Sangh line about Hindus being the victims of riots is completely false. He said: "In Assam, the police stood aside and more than 3,000 dead bodies piled up. Not one was Hindu. Something similar happened in Bhagalpur, Bihar... the Ganga was full of dead bodies, not one Hindu. In Moradabad, Meerut, and in Gujarat, too, the police stood aside." Why did he say this? Because his manhood was challenged by Akbar Owaisi, a fellow right-wing extremist of the other faith. Owaisi had said: "let the police stand aside and then let us see who is stronger." Here are excerpts from their speeches:


Togadia's statement exposes two myths. First, the Hindu myth that they are the victims of the Muslims' propensity to riot. The second myth it exposes is the Muslim myth that Owaisi referred to. The reality is that the Muslims are killed in overwhelming numbers not because the police targets them, but because the other side has larger numbers. In a fight where neither side has the advantage of superior technology or defensive fortifications, the side with the bigger numbers usually wins.

By perpetuating the two myths, right-wing extremists of both faiths, like Togadia and Owaisi, both ensure their own hold on power. If Hindus believe that they are in danger of being killed by Muslims, they turn to the Togadias; if more Hindus believed the truth -- that most of the victims of the riots are Muslims, their support for the Sangh Parivar is bound to reduce. If Muslims believe that the police persecutes Muslims, they will turn to the Owaisis; if more Muslims believed that the machinery of the Indian state is not guilty of persecution, their support for the MIM is bound to reduce. In an unguarded moment, Praveen Togadia has revealed the truth about the numbers. It may be too much to hope this, but I do hope at least a few people on both sides see the truth and disavow these right-wing extremists of both faiths.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/after-owaisi-its-togadias-turn-to-make-hate-speech/article4383110.ece?homepage=true

trite.

I don't accept the account of either of these two. Both are barraging and exaggerating.

southindian wrote:I don't accept the account of either of these two. Both are barraging and exaggerating.

Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?

panini press wrote:


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/after-owaisi-its-togadias-turn-to-make-hate-speech/article4383110.ece?homepage=true

I disagree with Togadia and agree with Owaisi. As I have always maintained that the Muslims are 25% and not 12, 14, or 15% as the Govt claims every 2 years. It is more like 30%.

Hindus fear the Koranists. As the muslim population increases, their share in the police and military should decrease - just so the hindus dont get butchered as Akbar Owaisi has threatened to do.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

panini press wrote:


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/after-owaisi-its-togadias-turn-to-make-hate-speech/article4383110.ece?homepage=true

I disagree with Togadia and agree with Owaisi. As I have always maintained that the Muslims are 25% and not 12, 14, or 15% as the Govt claims every 2 years. It is more like 30%.

Hindus fear the Koranists. As the muslim population increases, their share in the police and military should decrease - just so the hindus dont get butchered as Akbar Owaisi has threatened to do.

Saamiyaar, 25 out of 125 is not 30%. You are a fine personification of the fears that Togadia & co. want to instill among Hindus. That is what makes his rare admission interesting.

panini press wrote:

southindian wrote:I don't accept the account of either of these two. Both are barraging and exaggerating.

Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?

I would guess that Togadia was responding to Owaisi and not talking to his Hindu base at that time.
Owaisi was strengthening his base (Muslims) when he gave that threat.

Can you post link of Togadia's video. I need to check who's Togadia targeting.

3000 dead in Assam and not 1 Hindu dead is gross exaggeration. Even his die-hard fans won't believe Togadia.

southindian wrote:

panini press wrote:

southindian wrote:I don't accept the account of either of these two. Both are barraging and exaggerating.

Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?

I would guess that Togadia was responding to Owaisi and not talking to his Hindu base at that time.
Owaisi was strengthening his base (Muslims) when he gave that threat.

Can you post link of Togadia's video. I need to check who's Togadia targeting.

3000 dead in Assam and not 1 Hindu dead is gross exaggeration. Even his die-hard fans won't believe Togadia.

I am with you on that. Assam massacre if I remember it correctly was instigated by Indira Gandhi. It is not a religious riot.

Here are the details of Nellie Massacre. Looks like it is an anti-immigrant massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre

stop seeing these douches through eyes accustomed to american TV where everything is filtered through spindoctors and pundits. in rest of the world ppl still brag, boast, make themselves look bigger and tougher than they are.

panini press wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

panini press wrote:


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/after-owaisi-its-togadias-turn-to-make-hate-speech/article4383110.ece?homepage=true

I disagree with Togadia and agree with Owaisi. As I have always maintained that the Muslims are 25% and not 12, 14, or 15% as the Govt claims every 2 years. It is more like 30%.

Hindus fear the Koranists. As the muslim population increases, their share in the police and military should decrease - just so the hindus dont get butchered as Akbar Owaisi has threatened to do.

Saamiyaar, 25 out of 125 is not 30%. You are a fine personification of the fears that Togadia & co. want to instill among Hindus. That is what makes his rare admission interesting.

please (try to) answer my eternal questions for which no Fakularist has answered.

1. How did the Muslim population went from less than 10% to close to 25% in India?

(Insert answer here)


2. Whatever happened to the huge hindu population in pakistan and the Bangladesh where it is down from 20% to less than 10%?

(Insert answer here)

3. Will any hindu DARE to make a statement like Akbar Owaisi in Pakistan or Bangladesh? Tell us who is afraid of who?

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

panini press wrote:Saamiyaar, 25 out of 125 is not 30%. You are a fine personification of the fears that Togadia & co. want to instill among Hindus. That is what makes his rare admission interesting.

please (try to) answer my eternal questions for which no Fakularist has answered.

1. How did the Muslim population went from less than 10% to close to 25% in India?

Ok, I'll play.

Let us try this again: 25 crores out of 125 is what Akbar Owaisi claims; that is an overestimate. Even if that number were true, it is still not 25%. This 25% is just your fear-driven exaggeration. The population of Muslims is growing faster than the national average, but the difference is not what it is made out to be by Togadia and his ilk. It is growing faster because of Muslims are on average poorer and less literate than the rest of the country, and poor, illiterate people tend to have more children than the rest of the population.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:2. Whatever happened to the huge hindu population in pakistan and the Bangladesh where it is down from 20% to less than 10%?

Pakistan and Bangladesh systematically persecuted their minorities. Most of the Hindus who remained in Pakistan (east and west wings) as of the end of 1947 migrated to India, were coerced to convert, or were massacred as during the 1971 crackdown in East Bengal. But all of this is not very relevant to India. Pakistan and Bangladesh are failed states, and their treatment of minorities is one of the reasons they became failed states. Unless you want to turn India into a failed state -- like Togadia does -- this is tangential at best.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:3. Will any hindu DARE to make a statement like Akbar Owaisi in Pakistan or Bangladesh? Tell us who is afraid of who?

I don't know any Pakistani Hindus, so I can't comment. But I do know that Indian Muslims enjoy greater freedom of political speech than Pakistani Hindus. Heck, Indian Muslims enjoy greater freedom of political speech than Pakistani Muslims. And that is what makes India a better system. But again, this is tangential at best.

Southindian, here is the video. He is talking to his own supporters, who are cheering him along.

Propagandhi711 wrote:stop seeing these douches through eyes accustomed to american TV where everything is filtered through spindoctors and pundits. in rest of the world ppl still brag, boast, make themselves look bigger and tougher than they are.

What's American TV got to do with any of this?

The guy is gloating about several massacres of Muslims, and he rightly says that when the police stands aside, Muslims die a lot more in riots than Hindus do. And his supporters are not surprised; they lustily cheer his statements. So why should we discount the truth in what he says, again?

Talking of political maass murders, one of the worst happened in April-May 2009 in the Island of Sri Lanka. India was accomplice to it. It funded, trained and equipped the murderous Lankan Army.

The top general who carried out the massacre was welcomed in Lanka after the murder. Yet when this general went to US to see his immigrant daughter, Homeland Security asked him to visit local FBI office to answer some questions. He got out of US before the appointment date.

Lankan defence secretary who pllottred the massacre was welcome visitor in Delhi many times. Whem he went to US he was questioned for over two hours althogh he could not be prosecuted because of diplomatic immunity. He never went to US again.

THe chief murderer, President Rajapaka is visiting India. When TN protested Congress minkister said that he is just visiting. Yet when commanders 80 year old mother came to TN for medical treatment, she was turned back at airport. She was not allowed to set foot on TN soil.

India stands condemned.

PP: "It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment."

"Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?"

On Akbar Owaisi: " 25 crores out of 125 is what Akbar Owaisi claims; that is an overestimate."

So When it is Owaisi he was JUST overestimating and talking to his constituents, but when it comes to Togadia he is telling the whole truth bcz he was NOT talking to hindus but to Owaisi.

PP - congratulations. you just confirmed your fakularism-based islamic favoritism.

all of u who say u r indian should hang ur head in shame. come down from the moral high horse

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:PP: "It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment."

"Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?"

On Akbar Owaisi: " 25 crores out of 125 is what Akbar Owaisi claims; that is an overestimate."

So When it is Owaisi he was JUST overestimating and talking to his constituents, but when it comes to Togadia he is telling the whole truth bcz he was NOT talking to hindus but to Owaisi.

PP - congratulations. you just confirmed your fakularism-based islamic favoritism.

Are you saying that Togadia was exaggerating? If so, why would he exaggerate? There is a clear political reason for Owaisi to exaggerate: the more Muslims there are, the larger influence he can claim. In an era of coalition politics and lack of accurate numbers, any overestimate of Muslim representation benefits Muslim leaders in their negotiations with their coalition partners. Sangh Parivar, on the other hand, benefits from portraying Hindus as victims and Muslims as aggressors -- something you wholeheartedly seem to be believe. So why is Togadia exaggerating, again?

PS: I hope you have figured out that the percentage claimed by Owaisi is 20% or less. Yet you claimed 25%. Why?

panini press wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:stop seeing these douches through eyes accustomed to american TV where everything is filtered through spindoctors and pundits. in rest of the world ppl still brag, boast, make themselves look bigger and tougher than they are.

What's American TV got to do with any of this?

The guy is gloating about several massacres of Muslims, and he rightly says that when the police stands aside, Muslims die a lot more in riots than Hindus do. And his supporters are not surprised; they lustily cheer his statements. So why should we discount the truth in what he says, again?

see bolded above. this douche togadia might be a mass murder cheering fukwit with similarly inclined supporters but there is a good deal of exaggeration usually in such bombastic speeches. I wouldnt take the figures they claim to the bank exactly..it's meant for consumption by their subhuman followers

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:Hindus fear the Koranists.

True Unkil. But I have a solution that might finally liberate you of that fear. Wear a chastity belt and deposit the key with the local shakha pramukh. This way you too can fearlessly walk around even after 8pm.

Propagandhi711 wrote:

panini press wrote:

Propagandhi711 wrote:stop seeing these douches through eyes accustomed to american TV where everything is filtered through spindoctors and pundits. in rest of the world ppl still brag, boast, make themselves look bigger and tougher than they are.

What's American TV got to do with any of this?

The guy is gloating about several massacres of Muslims, and he rightly says that when the police stands aside, Muslims die a lot more in riots than Hindus do. And his supporters are not surprised; they lustily cheer his statements. So why should we discount the truth in what he says, again?

see bolded above. this douche togadia might be a mass murder cheering fukwit with similarly inclined supporters but there is a good deal of exaggeration usually in such bombastic speeches. I wouldnt take the figures they claim to the bank exactly..it's meant for consumption by their subhuman followers

OK, perhaps there is some exaggeration in his numbers; it is not 3000-0 as he claims. But it is quite clear that his very bragging indicates that the ratio is unfavorable to Muslims, not Hindus.

panini press wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:PP: "It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment."

"Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?"

On Akbar Owaisi: " 25 crores out of 125 is what Akbar Owaisi claims; that is an overestimate."

So When it is Owaisi he was JUST overestimating and talking to his constituents, but when it comes to Togadia he is telling the whole truth bcz he was NOT talking to hindus but to Owaisi.

PP - congratulations. you just confirmed your fakularism-based islamic favoritism.

Are you saying that Togadia was exaggerating? If so, why would he exaggerate? There is a clear political reason for Owaisi to exaggerate: the more Muslims there are, the larger influence he can claim. In an era of coalition politics and lack of accurate numbers, any overestimate of Muslim representation benefits Muslim leaders in their negotiations with their coalition partners. Sangh Parivar, on the other hand, benefits from portraying Hindus as victims and Muslims as aggressors -- something you wholeheartedly seem to be believe. So why is Togadia exaggerating, again?

PS: I hope you have figured out that the percentage claimed by Owaisi is 20% or less. Yet you claimed 25%. Why?

Districtwise muslim population in 2001

Per site it is close to 20% (in 2001) when the Govt. claimed it was only 13%. It still maintains its only 14%. yeah rite...most will EASILY agree that in reality it is well over 25%.

I talked to "two" muslims and they agreed muslims form 30%. That proves my claims.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

panini press wrote:

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:PP: "It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment."

"Why would Togadia exaggerate, when he benefits from the belief that Hindus are the victims of Muslim violence?"

On Akbar Owaisi: " 25 crores out of 125 is what Akbar Owaisi claims; that is an overestimate."

So When it is Owaisi he was JUST overestimating and talking to his constituents, but when it comes to Togadia he is telling the whole truth bcz he was NOT talking to hindus but to Owaisi.

PP - congratulations. you just confirmed your fakularism-based islamic favoritism.

Are you saying that Togadia was exaggerating? If so, why would he exaggerate? There is a clear political reason for Owaisi to exaggerate: the more Muslims there are, the larger influence he can claim. In an era of coalition politics and lack of accurate numbers, any overestimate of Muslim representation benefits Muslim leaders in their negotiations with their coalition partners. Sangh Parivar, on the other hand, benefits from portraying Hindus as victims and Muslims as aggressors -- something you wholeheartedly seem to be believe. So why is Togadia exaggerating, again?

PS: I hope you have figured out that the percentage claimed by Owaisi is 20% or less. Yet you claimed 25%. Why?

Districtwise muslim population in 2001

Per site it is close to 20% (in 2001) when the Govt. claimed it was only 13%. It still maintains its only 14%. yeah rite...most will EASILY agree that in reality it is well over 25%.

I talked to "two" muslims and they agreed muslims form 30%. That proves my claims.

Yeah, that 25-30% estimate does smack of the Rashmun Method!

panini press wrote:A few months ago, there was a discussion here about communal riots in India and the death tolls from those riots. I said that the known evidence points to a disproportionately high Muslim death toll in communal riots in India. Some posters disputed this, based on what they had themselves heard from other sources. Given the nature of communal violence, it is hard to obtain accurate official reports of casualties, and anecdotal evidence often informs opinions.

In my observation, it is a common belief among Hindus in India that Muslims cause, and do most of the killing in, most communal riots. A widely-held belief on the Muslim side, as I mentioned in passing in another thread, is that Muslims die for the most part, and that's because the better-armed police actively targets them or assists the Hindu mob. Organizations claiming to represent Hindus -- like the RSS and its more militant affiliates -- routinely claim that Muslims start riots and kill Hindus, and they paint themselves as playing a purely defensive and retaliatory role to protect Hindus from Muslim violence. This idea that Hindus need to fight back in their own defense helps them recruit people who might otherwise be unwilling to support their divisive ideology. This idea has taken root among Hindus, giving rise to the fear expressed by people like Uppili that Merlot parodies here.

It is therefore remarkable when high-ranking people in the Sangh Parivar speak the truth in an unguarded moment. Praveen Togadia of the VHP recently told a meeting of his supporters that the widely-peddled Sangh line about Hindus being the victims of riots is completely false. He said: "In Assam, the police stood aside and more than 3,000 dead bodies piled up. Not one was Hindu. Something similar happened in Bhagalpur, Bihar... the Ganga was full of dead bodies, not one Hindu. In Moradabad, Meerut, and in Gujarat, too, the police stood aside." Why did he say this? Because his manhood was challenged by Akbar Owaisi, a fellow right-wing extremist of the other faith. Owaisi had said: "let the police stand aside and then let us see who is stronger." Here are excerpts from their speeches:


Togadia's statement exposes two myths. First, the Hindu myth that they are the victims of the Muslims' propensity to riot. The second myth it exposes is the Muslim myth that Owaisi referred to. The reality is that the Muslims are killed in overwhelming numbers not because the police targets them, but because the other side has larger numbers. In a fight where neither side has the advantage of superior technology or defensive fortifications, the side with the bigger numbers usually wins.

By perpetuating the two myths, right-wing extremists of both faiths, like Togadia and Owaisi, both ensure their own hold on power. If Hindus believe that they are in danger of being killed by Muslims, they turn to the Togadias; if more Hindus believed the truth -- that most of the victims of the riots are Muslims, their support for the Sangh Parivar is bound to reduce. If Muslims believe that the police persecutes Muslims, they will turn to the Owaisis; if more Muslims believed that the machinery of the Indian state is not guilty of persecution, their support for the MIM is bound to reduce. In an unguarded moment, Praveen Togadia has revealed the truth about the numbers. It may be too much to hope this, but I do hope at least a few people on both sides see the truth and disavow these right-wing extremists of both faiths.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/after-owaisi-its-togadias-turn-to-make-hate-speech/article4383110.ece?homepage=true

I hope this ends up as a serious discussion. Before that I have two questions. Have you seen a riot up close ?
It is interesting that you did not exactly state the so-called Muslim Myth. Wonder why ?

There is no single generalization we can make about a riot. It is one of the most gruesome events, and it affects psychologically, economically and in so many other ways.

Out of your statements, the only one which is closer to the truth is that the without differences in weapons/preparation(you forgot that), the side which is more numerous wins. Even here the generalizations are not always right (given below).
However, the matter does not end there.

I want to make a few points
a) Any riot is gruesome. It always ends up affecting every community involved. When we talk of majority/minority, we are forgetting, that most riots are local. Typically, both the communities involved are a majority in one area, but ends up a minority in another. It is stupid for Owaisi or Togadia to talk like that. In Gujarat riots (official figures) 800 Muslims and 200 Hindus died. Everybody talks about the 800 Muslims , but nobody talks about the 200+50 Hindus. However, in riots in West Bengal the numbers are opposite. In regions of Bengal bordering Bangladesh Muslims are more numerous, even though overall population of Hindus is close to 60% in the state. In those regions it is Hindus who are affected more, but again a few Muslims are also affected. Thus, the fact is that all communities are affected. It is downright stupid to talk one number as more or one number as less. The effect on society is devastating. Riots are a scourge of India.

b) We cannot generalize that numerical strength always results in lower casualties. During riots, we should not forget the contribution of ghettos /walled cities. More often than not, small scale rioting would happen, when gangs of anti-social Muslims would venture out of their ghettos, do whatever they want, and then disappear back into their ghettos, where they are shielded by the edicts of Mullahs. So here the aggressors are not numerous, but the gang armed with weapons have planning as an advantage and wreak havoc on a few bystanders before disappearing.These hit and run tactics repeated over time, was used in the Ahmedabad riots (that went on for about three months) in the 1970's. Once these happen, the government will impose curfew, but the perpetrators would never be caught. To think that Modi was being accused of not doing anything for 48 hours is nothing, compared to the Congress inaction in the 60's & 1970's. Here the numerical strength of Hindus does not play out, and the casualties among Hindus caused by a small band of anti-social Muslims spread over time is much more. Since it is unclear where the small band of extremists Muslims attack, higher number of equally combative defenders among Hindus does not help. The same modus operandi was used in Marad.

c) The goals/strategies/methods of what you call as extremism among Muslims Vis-a-Vis the extremism among Hindus are completely different. I object to them being spoken as if they are similar. The deeds that are being done today may be the same, but we need to keep that these very important differences. An example, LeT's manual to motivate terrorists includes some doctored scenes of riots, but also includes Quranic words that justifies slaying the infidels. So even if the person recruited is not personally affected, he thinks he is doing god's work by uprooting Non-muslims. Unlike Hindus, the underlying factors are not just fear in case of Muslims, it is something more. I have few points to buttress this case.

c.1) To understand how a community behaves, always look at countries where they are in a majority or ruling class. You can clearly see the distinction between Muslims and Hindus. There is an inherent Islamic Supremacist attitude/ideology among Muslim ruling class, that seeks to subjugates Non-muslims. Examples are in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Malaysia where the Non-muslim population has dwindled.


c.2) The very fact that Owaisi openly chose to threaten 100 crores Hindus (I guess this is a first in Indian history), clearly disproves the claim that Muslims live in fear in India. This is parroted by many of the foreign analysts, who claim minorities (Muslims) live in fear in India, despite knowing very well, that the laws do not discriminate. So the reason for him to threaten every single Hindu, not just those that he considers extremists, goes beyond fear. He does all these despite knowing the fact that Many Hindus openly oppose these extremists. He was cheered by the rank and file attending the event.


c.3) We are also forgetting that for Muslims, we also have the fanaticism to be added to this mix.

c.4) We need to ponder why other minorities like Jains, Parsis, Buddhists do not feel threatened by the Hindus who are a majority. Despite the riots perpetrated by Congress goons (which by the way includes a few Muslims) the Sikhs do not feel the threat from Hindus as a community. This clearly proves that Hinduism does not cause a fanatical political ideology like Islam.

All these clearly proves that there is something in the DNA of Islam that is causing fanaticism and extremist ideology. The answer to that is Political Islam. Most of the remaining majority of Muslims do not oppose the Political Islamists. Why? Because Political Islamic ideology is justified using Quran, which these Muslims believe as god's word. So they are not able to oppose them. No Hindu leader can claim to use religion to justify his/her violent acts on innocent Non-Hindus, without provocation.

When UPA came up with the communal violence bill, I actually thought that the UPA is serious about fixing the scourge of riots once and for all. When I saw the actual proposal, the real communal face of Congress party was clearly visible. It is clear that the NAG which initiated the bill are folks who are so prejudiced, that while they looked at just one riot, they did not look at 100 other riots that occurred before. I am sure when they wrote the bill to only consider majority as aggressors they used the same methods you quote to justify their actions. They did not worry about the fact such a bill is anti-constitutional, nor did they bother to see its hypothetical effectiveness against all previous riots that happened in India. It was so ill-conceived. But the very fact that Congress party even considered this bill, indicates the lack of clarity among their leaders towards such issues, and their very short sighted approach to the problem.

BTW on a lighter note, I heard a joke! Apparently Mahmoud Ahmedinajad wanted to go to Space, so immediately the Israelis said they will cover the complete costs of the operation!

panini press wrote:Southindian, here is the video. He is talking to his own supporters, who are cheering him along.

Thanks. This is BS from Togadia and I don't believe a word he says. He is addressing his supporters but responding to Owaisi.

I can't believe when he says not one Hindu died.

I have very high regards for Muslims. Since 652 AD Muslims have either multiplied to become majority or conquered/killed to gain upper hand in a region.

Their modus operandi cannot change, so Togadia need to correct himself and spread lies.

southindian wrote:I have very high regards for Muslims.

how many do you have?

Jeremiah Mburuburu wrote:

southindian wrote:I have very high regards for Muslims.

how many do you have?

4

1 for each Muslim wife.

RE, I will respond in detail to your long post in a little bit.

southindian wrote:

panini press wrote:Southindian, here is the video. He is talking to his own supporters, who are cheering him along.

Thanks. This is BS from Togadia and I don't believe a word he says. He is addressing his supporters but responding to Owaisi.

I can't believe when he says not one Hindu died.

So how many Hindus do you think died in those riots in proportion to every Muslim who died? That's my point; Togadia's gloating is based on a disproportionately high Muslim death toll. His audience supports his gloating because they believe it to be true.

Neither hindus nor muslims in general are interested in riots. It is just politicians instigating it for their political advantage or just settling their scores.

Silk Smitha wrote:Neither hindus nor muslims in general are interested in riots. It is just politicians instigating it for their political advantage or just settling their scores.

Yes. In general, the common man on both sides loses from these riots. At the least, they lose income for a few days as everything shuts down. At the most, they might lose their lives. So there is no reason for regular folks of either faith to be interested in rioting.