Re: a rape map of india

by garam_kuta Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:30 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
trofimov wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:have you ever lived or had any significant contact with villages and the happenings therein?
Yes, I have spent some time in villages in AP and West Bengal. I also visited some villages in Bihar and Odisha for a few days each.

Propagandhi711 wrote:there are lots of sexual acts that happen and some of them can be coerced but does it mean they're rapes?
What is the difference between "coerced" sexual acts and a rape?

if someone has sex with a woman promising her a promotion, does it count as rape or coercion?

qpq?

by Guest Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:22 pm

trofimov wrote:What is the difference between "coerced" sexual acts and a rape?

C can come most likely from someone you know. R can be from a random stranger. C might be likely without violence. R most like will have bigger physical assault.

Both inflict the same mental trauma on the victim. Methinks. I would call the two same.

by doofus_maximus Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:36 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:kerala is an interesting case and i have never been able to understand it. also TN and AP have gotten worse since the last census wrt the sex ratios in the 0-6 age group.

in general however, when fertile women become scarcer in the population, violence against women increases. this is a phenomenon that has been hypothesized by sociologists and we are seeing it play out in india. the differences between the regions are interesting because it gives us a chance to test this hypothesis.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1193

citation needed Max. you know that.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:47 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:kerala is an interesting case and i have never been able to understand it. also TN and AP have gotten worse since the last census wrt the sex ratios in the 0-6 age group.

in general however, when fertile women become scarcer in the population, violence against women increases. this is a phenomenon that has been hypothesized by sociologists and we are seeing it play out in india. the differences between the regions are interesting because it gives us a chance to test this hypothesis.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1193

citation needed Max. you know that.

this has been discussed to death in the popular media, but here is one -- http://www.socialeconomics.org/Papers/Mitra4A.pdf

Economic theory would predict that when there
is a shortage of girl
s, the value or worth
of girls would increase socially and economica
lly, all else equal. However, this has not
happened in India. In some of th
e northern states in India, we ha
ve witnessed a rise in violence
among unmarried young men who compete for a
limited number of women in the marriage
market. We would expect the shortage of wo
men in the marriage market to lower the dowry
prices of marriageable women; instead, it has manife
sted itself in increases in sex trafficking, and
greater sexual violence against women. The state
of Haryana in north India has seen a drastic
increase in prostitution, violence, and rapes
against women in recent years (Singh and Mohan,
2005).

by confuzzled dude Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:55 pm

doofus_maximus wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:kerala is an interesting case and i have never been able to understand it. also TN and AP have gotten worse since the last census wrt the sex ratios in the 0-6 age group.

in general however, when fertile women become scarcer in the population, violence against women increases. this is a phenomenon that has been hypothesized by sociologists and we are seeing it play out in india. the differences between the regions are interesting because it gives us a chance to test this hypothesis.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1193

citation needed Max. you know that.

This was discussed around the Delhi rape incident time

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:06 pm

D_M: i have to say however that this was hypothesized but not shown conclusively. upthread you'll see that i suggested plotting the frequency or rape against the 0-6 sex ratios because i suspected a correlation, based on the hypothesis that you questioned. PP did just that and it turned out there was no strong correlation. i still tend to believe the hypothesis but believe it is unprovable because of underreporting of rapes. further, we only have rape data. violence against women takes many forms including at the one end trafficking and at the other crimes like groping. we need a more complete picture.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:40 pm

I thought the prevailing school of thought bandied about went along the lines of: rapes are really about power play and not about sex, so what women wear has no bearing on whether they get raped or not?

then isnt this new data point, namely, lack of fertile (read: capable of providing pleasure during sex) women increases rapes contradict the above?

by Idéfix Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:52 pm

I don't quite see the contradiction. In cases like the Delhi gangrape, there is clearly an element of "putting the woman in her place" and "showing her who is more powerful." The perpetrators are from a lower social class than the victim, and the victim was taking advantage of the socioeconomic progress of India which they were not entirely part of. If it was simply about the sex, there was no need to brutalize her the way they did (or for the rest of the gang to stand idly by when one of them did).

It is possible that young men who are unable to find mates are more frustrated with their own lives, and are angry with women whom they see as "uppity," and want to assert their power over such women any way they can. I am not suggesting that this is the definitive explanation for what is going on, but laying out one way in which the narratives would not be contradictory at all.

I personally tend to be skeptical that there is a secular trend over time of increasing violence against women within any particular region. The reason for my skepticism is that much of this violent behavior was expected, tolerated, and even encouraged in earlier generations. I would be tempted to attribute any uptick in reported numbers first to an increase in reporting thanks to womens' awareness of their own rights and society's progress -- however small -- in empowering them to fight back. It is of course possible that violence is actually rising. But if violence is truly inversely related to the value a society places on women, that value has gone up, not down, everywhere in India in the last hundred years. That is why I expect a high standard of evidence to believe that violence against is women is increasing over time.

by truthbetold Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:34 pm

tri,
you are seeing too many Indian movies.
the facts that are not in dispute
wide spread mistreatment of women in all regions of India
rape numbers are under reported-rape is a problem in all parts of India
regional differences on rape - numbers are mixed
correlation to low female ratio and other factors suspected but no sure proof available at this time
theory- urban middle class under reports due to shame, rural poor under report due to fear
theory- lower class unemployed youth major perpetrators in urban areas. in rural areas power ful upper class males major rapists.
suggested- rural areas have changed and rape of sc/st will have consequences

each of these statements may carry some truth. it reminds me of the blind men and elephant story. the problem is big, we are all looking at it from our frame of reference. reliable data is not available.
why is it that real data not available? why can't an ngo or a university do a study of the available fir data and clearly tabulate perpetrators age, social class, employment status, relationship with victim if any, etc.

by Propagandhi711 Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:37 pm

garam_kuta wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
trofimov wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:have you ever lived or had any significant contact with villages and the happenings therein?
Yes, I have spent some time in villages in AP and West Bengal. I also visited some villages in Bihar and Odisha for a few days each.

Propagandhi711 wrote:there are lots of sexual acts that happen and some of them can be coerced but does it mean they're rapes?
What is the difference between "coerced" sexual acts and a rape?

if someone has sex with a woman promising her a promotion, does it count as rape or coercion?

qpq?

what you got going that's so urgent you cant be bothered to write quid pro quo? are you standing watch over north korean nukes or something?

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:53 pm

truthbetold wrote:
why is it that real data not available? why can't an ngo or a university do a study of the available fir data and clearly tabulate perpetrators age, social class, employment status, relationship with victim if any, etc.

i am responding to the only sentence that i could understand in your post.

the problem is not that available data is not being considered or being organized in a cogent way. the problem IMO is that crimes are not being fully reported. no university study can correct for non-existent data. well i suppose they can; it's called fudging, and it usually carries such rewards like losing one's job, permanent ostracization by one's professional colleagues etc.

by truthbetold Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:20 pm

i am responding to the only sentence that i could understand in your post.

the problem is not that available data is not being considered or being organized in a cogent way. the problem IMO is that crimes are not being fully reported. no university study can correct for non-existent data. well i suppose they can; it's called fudging, and it usually carries such rewards like losing one's job, permanent ostracization by one's professional colleagues etc. [/quote]
Max,
it is not unusual for your type to develop comprehension problems when your arguments lose potency
. Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

I do not you background in handling statistical data but there are methods to handle the reported vs real data. Many stat programs include methods to fill in missing data even though those methods were not applicable in our present discussion.

by Hellsangel Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:29 pm

Propagandhi711 wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
trofimov wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:have you ever lived or had any significant contact with villages and the happenings therein?
Yes, I have spent some time in villages in AP and West Bengal. I also visited some villages in Bihar and Odisha for a few days each.

Propagandhi711 wrote:there are lots of sexual acts that happen and some of them can be coerced but does it mean they're rapes?
What is the difference between "coerced" sexual acts and a rape?

if someone has sex with a woman promising her a promotion, does it count as rape or coercion?

qpq?

what you got going that's so urgent you cant be bothered to write quid pro quo? are you standing watch over north korean nukes or something?

He is just another frog-faced wussy Iyer boy with intellectual pretensions.

by Idéfix Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:34 pm

truthbetold wrote:i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations.

I would expect that the numbers in the map on the original post in this thread are based on FIRs filed with the police. The problem is when the victims of rape are unwilling or unable to file an FIR. My own knowledge of India says that that problem is rather large.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:47 pm

truthbetold wrote:
Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

by Idéfix Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 pm

truthbetold wrote:theory- urban middle class under reports due to shame, rural poor under report due to fear
theory- lower class unemployed youth major perpetrators in urban areas. in rural areas power ful upper class males major rapists.
suggested- rural areas have changed and rape of sc/st will have consequences

each of these statements may carry some truth.

Yes, I agree there is an element of truth in all those theories.

truthbetold wrote:it reminds me of the blind men and elephant story. the problem is big, we are all looking at it from our frame of reference. reliable data is not available.
why is it that real data not available?

I don't see an easy fix to the data-availability problem. The root causes are the lack of empowerment of women and lack of the rule of law. Without improvements on both those counts, we can't expect that most sexual assaults will be reported.

by truthbetold Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Tri,
Beyond the fact that an incident is reported, what other criminal attributes were reported based on fir? Can you provide age groups of perpetuators? Can you provide social situations of victims and perpetrators? Can you provide economic backgrounds of victims in urban vs rural areas?
Most of us were providing our own observations because we lack detailed data.
Available case file provides all that data. Neither govt nor ngos provided such analysis.
Most of the problems in the world present data reporting, data collection and data interpretation concerns. If we can use available data, that will show us the path forward.

by Idéfix Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:58 pm

truthbetold wrote:Tri,
Beyond the fact that an incident is reported, what other criminal attributes were reported based on fir? Can you provide age groups of perpetuators? Can you provide social situations of victims and perpetrators? Can you provide economic backgrounds of victims in urban vs rural areas?
Most of us were providing our own observations because we lack detailed data.
Available case file provides all that data. Neither govt nor ngos provided such analysis.
Most of the problems in the world present data reporting, data collection and data interpretation concerns. If we can use available data, that will show us the path forward.

Now I understand your point better. Yes, there is value in collating those socioeconomic attributes of both victims and alleged perpetrators and the location of the crime (rural or urban) from FIRs and such. It will help understand patterns across time and space.

by Guest Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:28 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

by MaxEntropy_Man Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:32 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

by Guest Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:42 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

I think when I read some link of yours, I quoted reading an article back in the 90s about this. That forecast was that in a few years, single males who don't get married will make it tough one for the bride of the one brother who does get married, and incestuous rapes may go higher in numbers (I don't think much of those have even made the stats). Anyway, on that thread I wondered how they predicted something similar to your link, 20 years ago. Agreed or not, I am not sure.

I have told you clearly what all I disagree about with you. I go "postal" when you try to single one entire region's culture w/o being sure. That's pretty serious. Worse, you do it pretty casually, like it's an established fact.

PS: I liked the term logical elegance. Not your logic, which is now proven flawed.

by southindian Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:38 am

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
truthbetold wrote:
Putting aside your arrogance, if you read my post, i suggested using available FIR filed in police stations. A tabulation of FIR data gives you a first look at break up of reported rape data. Even that data is not available for discussion.

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

I think when I read some link of yours, I quoted reading an article back in the 90s about this. That forecast was that in a few years, single males who don't get married will make it tough one for the bride of the one brother who does get married, and incestuous rapes may go higher in numbers (I don't think much of those have even made the stats). Anyway, on that thread I wondered how they predicted something similar to your link, 20 years ago. Agreed or not, I am not sure.

I have told you clearly what all I disagree about with you. I go "postal" when you try to single one entire region's culture w/o being sure. That's pretty serious. Worse, you do it pretty casually, like it's an established fact.

PS: I liked the term logical elegance. Not your logic, which is now proven flawed.

I have never seen you take on Max this seriously. The bolded part above gets more serious when you learn that Max teaches for a living and a biased teacher is more harmful and dangerous than a stupid one. Max's bias is very well documented online since 2001.

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:01 am

southindian wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

I think when I read some link of yours, I quoted reading an article back in the 90s about this. That forecast was that in a few years, single males who don't get married will make it tough one for the bride of the one brother who does get married, and incestuous rapes may go higher in numbers (I don't think much of those have even made the stats). Anyway, on that thread I wondered how they predicted something similar to your link, 20 years ago. Agreed or not, I am not sure.

I have told you clearly what all I disagree about with you. I go "postal" when you try to single one entire region's culture w/o being sure. That's pretty serious. Worse, you do it pretty casually, like it's an established fact.

PS: I liked the term logical elegance. Not your logic, which is now proven flawed.

I have never seen you take on Max this seriously. The bolded part above gets more serious when you learn that Max teaches for a living and a biased teacher is more harmful and dangerous than a stupid one. Max's bias is very well documented online since 2001.

Exactly! That this is all coming from a supposedly well educated and that too an asst professor is all the more scary! A teacher can make or break a student's life. I hope he doesn't have or never had any north indian students.

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:05 pm

southindian wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

I think when I read some link of yours, I quoted reading an article back in the 90s about this. That forecast was that in a few years, single males who don't get married will make it tough one for the bride of the one brother who does get married, and incestuous rapes may go higher in numbers (I don't think much of those have even made the stats). Anyway, on that thread I wondered how they predicted something similar to your link, 20 years ago. Agreed or not, I am not sure.

I have told you clearly what all I disagree about with you. I go "postal" when you try to single one entire region's culture w/o being sure. That's pretty serious. Worse, you do it pretty casually, like it's an established fact.

PS: I liked the term logical elegance. Not your logic, which is now proven flawed.

I have never seen you take on Max this seriously. The bolded part above gets more serious when you learn that Max teaches for a living and a biased teacher is more harmful and dangerous than a stupid one. Max's bias is very well documented online since 2001.

Judging his professional record is too much of a guess work and I don't want to indulge in it. Will stick to his online persona.

The first time I had flipped out was when he had said lightly that speaking bad English was in ni genes. This was around holi of 2008. He denies saying that and that thread is probably deleted. But ya ... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

by garam_kuta Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Hellsangel wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
garam_kuta wrote:
Propagandhi711 wrote:
trofimov wrote:Yes, I have spent some time in villages in AP and West Bengal. I also visited some villages in Bihar and Odisha for a few days each.

What is the difference between "coerced" sexual acts and a rape?

if someone has sex with a woman promising her a promotion, does it count as rape or coercion?

qpq?

what you got going that's so urgent you cant be bothered to write quid pro quo? are you standing watch over north korean nukes or something?

He is just another frog-faced wussy Iyer boy with intellectual pretensions.

. huh?

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
The first time I had flipped out was when he had said lightly that speaking bad English was in ni genes. This was around holi of 2008. He denies saying that and that thread is probably deleted. But ya ... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

i did not say that and your are continuing to slander me. i couldn't have said anything so absurd. my favorite contemporary english novelist is living proof that it is absurd. so i suggest you produce this mythical post or shut the fuck up. i'd be happy to issue an unconditional apology if you prove your allegation.

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
The first time I had flipped out was when he had said lightly that speaking bad English was in ni genes. This was around holi of 2008. He denies saying that and that thread is probably deleted. But ya ... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

i did not say that and your are continuing to slander me. i couldn't have said anything so absurd. my favorite contemporary english novelist is living proof that it is absurd. so i suggest you produce this mythical post or shut the fuck up. i'd be happy to issue an unconditional apology if you prove your allegation.

ok. I will try to google again, but if my memory serves me right, it was in one of JLF's bad-pics threads that was deleted. I remember it because that was one of my earlier memories, and I thought of it often. That impression was further solidified by your posts like this:

http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse_has-life-mostly-been-fair-to-you-877710/#877779

When guessing if a new handle (that was me coincidentally) is NI or not, you are sure that it's an NI coz of a missing article in the sentence. So now, what was the logical elegance behind that post? This is just one of the examples that I distinctively remember. Back in 2008, missing articles was your favorite comments about NIs in general.

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:11 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
The first time I had flipped out was when he had said lightly that speaking bad English was in ni genes. This was around holi of 2008. He denies saying that and that thread is probably deleted. But ya ... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

i did not say that and your are continuing to slander me. i couldn't have said anything so absurd. my favorite contemporary english novelist is living proof that it is absurd. so i suggest you produce this mythical post or shut the fuck up. i'd be happy to issue an unconditional apology if you prove your allegation.

ok. I will try to google again, but if my memory serves me right, it was in one of JLF's bad-pics threads that was deleted. I remember it because that was one of my earlier memories, and I thought of it often. That impression was further solidified by your posts like this:

http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse_has-life-mostly-been-fair-to-you-877710/#877779

When guessing if a new handle (that was me coincidentally) is NI or not, you are sure that it's an NI coz of a missing article in the sentence. So now, what was the logical elegance behind that post? This is just one of the examples that I distinctively remember. Back in 2008, missing articles was your favorite comments about NIs in general.

and here's me, lamenting about it. of course, without naming anyone.

http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/students_differences-in-english-training-in-north-india-and-south-india-8221/#8264

by Propagandhi711 Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:30 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
The first time I had flipped out was when he had said lightly that speaking bad English was in ni genes. This was around holi of 2008. He denies saying that and that thread is probably deleted. But ya ... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

i did not say that and your are continuing to slander me. i couldn't have said anything so absurd. my favorite contemporary english novelist is living proof that it is absurd. so i suggest you produce this mythical post or shut the fuck up. i'd be happy to issue an unconditional apology if you prove your allegation.

ok. I will try to google again, but if my memory serves me right, it was in one of JLF's bad-pics threads that was deleted. I remember it because that was one of my earlier memories, and I thought of it often. That impression was further solidified by your posts like this:

http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse_has-life-mostly-been-fair-to-you-877710/#877779

When guessing if a new handle (that was me coincidentally) is NI or not, you are sure that it's an NI coz of a missing article in the sentence. So now, what was the logical elegance behind that post? This is just one of the examples that I distinctively remember. Back in 2008, missing articles was your favorite comments about NIs in general.

and here's me, lamenting about it. of course, without naming anyone.

http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/students_differences-in-english-training-in-north-india-and-south-india-8221/#8264

some handles from those threads stand out: gowser, sillyhooters, joblessfella (probably suicided already).

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:34 pm

bagchi i have said various things in those threads. but your original claim was that, "speaking bad English was in ni genes". where in those threads did i say that?

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:01 pm

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:bagchi i have said various things in those threads. but your original claim was that, "speaking bad English was in ni genes". where in those threads did i say that?

You sound funny when you ask me to find a thread I have already told you I can't find.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:06 pm

Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:bagchi i have said various things in those threads. but your original claim was that, "speaking bad English was in ni genes". where in those threads did i say that?

You sound funny when you ask me to find a thread I have already told you I can't find.

in that case stop slandering me.

by Guest Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:11 pm

southindian wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:
Vidya Bagchi wrote:
MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

where do you think the rape data being reported in the media come from? and seriously, do you really think i have trouble comprehending your posts because my arguments are losing steam? wow! i made a hypothesis. PP plotted the data, and proved that the available data don't support the hypothesis even though it (the hypothesis that is) has a certain logical elegance to it. i've already said so. i don't have to win every argument i have on the internet. so back to you -- i do have serious trouble understanding you.

Loved the term. logical elegance. Will try using it henceforth.

you in an earlier thread believed it as well, but went postal when it was brought back in this thread.

I think when I read some link of yours, I quoted reading an article back in the 90s about this. That forecast was that in a few years, single males who don't get married will make it tough one for the bride of the one brother who does get married, and incestuous rapes may go higher in numbers (I don't think much of those have even made the stats). Anyway, on that thread I wondered how they predicted something similar to your link, 20 years ago. Agreed or not, I am not sure.

I have told you clearly what all I disagree about with you. I go "postal" when you try to single one entire region's culture w/o being sure. That's pretty serious. Worse, you do it pretty casually, like it's an established fact.

PS: I liked the term logical elegance. Not your logic, which is now proven flawed.

I have never seen you take on Max this seriously. The bolded part above gets more serious when you learn that Max teaches for a living and a biased teacher is more harmful and dangerous than a stupid one. Max's bias is very well documented online since 2001.

Judging his professional record is too much of a guess work and I don't want to indulge in it. Will stick to his online persona.

I remember flipping out internally when he guessed a new handle's ethnicity as an NI based purely on her bad English. This was in 2008 or 2009. So ya... Guess I am sensitive about negative generalizations.

by MaxEntropy_Man Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:05 pm

back to to the correlation or absence of one between sex ratios and rape--there seems to be a steady drumbeat suggesting this sort of correlation in sociology academic circles and in the popular media. the hypothesized correlation is a beguiling one for sure, but haven't people gone through the simple exercise of plotting the data as PP did here?

look at this for example.. they say there is a correlation, but they don't provide any data.

by Rishi Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:26 pm

SanMann
Jan 4, 2013
This was a crime involving alcohol - 6 young men from a shantytown went on a drunken joyride that ended with them raping and maiming a young lady. This is neither the first time such a monstrous crime has taken place on this
Earth nor will it be the last time, sadly.

The names of the 6 young men arrested and charged with this violent sexual assault are Ram Singh, Mukesh Singh, Pawan Gupta, Vinay Sharma, Akshay Singh, and Mohammed Afroz.

I think the fact that so many Indians from all walks of life have turned out to protest this crime says that India doesn't have a rape culture. If this type of crime had happened in the United States or Europe - and it has - then would there have been protests as widespread as this? No, people would have watched it on the evening news, shaken their heads, and then moved on.

The fact that Indians have chosen to express their anger and disgust with this act shows that civic spirit is still alive in India - complete with hyperbole (eg. "India is the rape capital", "Indian men are all rapists", "Welcome to the Rape-Public of India")

The reality is that people are suffering under a ruling kleptocracy that is fiddling like Nero while failing to deliver basic infrastructure, basic services, basic security - basic anything - and people are fed up. It's not Indian society which has to go - it's the corrupt ruling establishment which has to go. Ironically, it's this same corrupt ruling establishment which is haughtily and arrogantly telling the public to go look in the mirror and to leave the ruling autocrats alone. Nope - it's the ruling autocrats who've got to face upto what they've been doing to India, and they're the ones who have to go.

Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2013/01/04/rape-in-india-a-result-of-sex-selection/#ixzz2PSg67gjK

by Uppili Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:27 am

southindian wrote:
I have never seen you take on Max this seriously. The bolded part above gets more serious when you learn that Max teaches for a living and a biased teacher is more harmful and dangerous than a stupid one. Max's bias is very well documented online since 2001.

Not that it matters.....just telling ya....Max came to Sulekha only in 2005... He stole one of my favorite fans and I will never forgive him for that.

by Idéfix Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:57 am

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:look at this for example.. they say there is a correlation, but they don't provide any data.

I am curious how they make the case. Three possibilities I see are: (a) overall numbers for violence against women show more correlation, (b) they establish a correlation over time, not space; that is, they show that violence against women has gone up while child sex ratio has fallen at the same time, and (c) latest child sex ratio data that hasn't yet been made available to the public shows a stronger correlation.

If it is (b), I would not trust the conclusions at all.

by Guest Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:39 am

Rishi wrote:SanMann
Jan 4, 2013
This was a crime involving alcohol - 6 young men from a shantytown went on a drunken joyride that ended with them raping and maiming a young lady. This is neither the first time such a monstrous crime has taken place on this
Earth nor will it be the last time, sadly.

The names of the 6 young men arrested and charged with this violent sexual assault are Ram Singh, Mukesh Singh, Pawan Gupta, Vinay Sharma, Akshay Singh, and Mohammed Afroz.

I think the fact that so many Indians from all walks of life have turned out to protest this crime says that India doesn't have a rape culture. If this type of crime had happened in the United States or Europe - and it has - then would there have been protests as widespread as this? No, people would have watched it on the evening news, shaken their heads, and then moved on.

The fact that Indians have chosen to express their anger and disgust with this act shows that civic spirit is still alive in India - complete with hyperbole (eg. "India is the rape capital", "Indian men are all rapists", "Welcome to the Rape-Public of India")

The reality is that people are suffering under a ruling kleptocracy that is fiddling like Nero while failing to deliver basic infrastructure, basic services, basic security - basic anything - and people are fed up. It's not Indian society which has to go - it's the corrupt ruling establishment which has to go. Ironically, it's this same corrupt ruling establishment which is haughtily and arrogantly telling the public to go look in the mirror and to leave the ruling autocrats alone. Nope - it's the ruling autocrats who've got to face upto what they've been doing to India, and they're the ones who have to go.

Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2013/01/04/rape-in-india-a-result-of-sex-selection/#ixzz2PSg67gjK

I think the reason they protest is to get better judicial system around this issue. Americans don't need to coz better laws are in place. India has a long way to go before they catch up with many other countries.

by doofus_maximus Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:04 pm

i haven't been able to keep up with this thread.. but maybe this weekend..

here is a TED speech by my friend's Periyamma. This forum is already aware of all the points that she is trying to make.

by Sponsored content