Bihar CM, a Dalit, says he is still treated as an untouchable by some

by Guest Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:46 pm

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:43 am

Perhaps he keeps on drawing the huge benefits in education and jobs for his family and community through the caste quota card (as a "dalit" / untouchable).

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:46 am

Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:54 am

Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.

That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:04 am

Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:20 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:23 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.
That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

He will say there can be no compromise on the question of caste based reservations. Personally I feel progressive people should first target caste based reservations for OBC people first. OBC people are a prosperous community and they are never attacked or victimized or humiliated. It makes no sense to give them reservations other than reasons to do with vote bank politics. Also Modi will not be able to end vote bank politics since OBCs and Dalits will refuse to give up caste based reservation benefits.

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:26 am

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

The bigger issue for the C.M. should be to immediately get rid of the casteist reservations / quotas in education and jobs which promote and prolong the casteism in society in the first place, and worry and complain later about a few people and places washing the homes and worship idols after his visit.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:28 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.
The bigger issue for the C.M. should be to immediately get rid of the casteist reservations / quotas in education and jobs which promote and prolong the casteism in society in the first place, and worry and complain later about a few people and places washing the homes and worship idols after his visit.

The CM will say he has no desire to commit political suicide.

by confuzzled dude Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:32 am

Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Not surprised at all, as that's how most of the Hindus are conditioned, shall we call it Hindu doctrine? The irony is the same folks that ill treat fellow Indians come to the US and cry about the biases, self-esteem.

by confuzzled dude Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:40 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

So you're saying that he is a liar, upper caste Hindus don't discriminate and such incidents are unheard of. Come on sir, you don't need to find excuses for those narrow minded folks. Until recently, dalits weren't even allowed to enter the temple(s), probably still in practice in some places.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:53 am

one more cry baby here. They resort to caste politics, want caste based reservations, but cry foul when others recognize them by their caste. Bwahaha Razz

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:59 am

confuzzled dude wrote:So you're saying that he is a liar, upper caste Hindus don't discriminate and such incidents are unheard of. Come on sir, you don't need to find excuses for those narrow minded folks. Until recently, dalits weren't even allowed to enter the temple(s), probably still in practice in some places.

I think he too needs to be saved by the missionaries.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:33 am

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.

If Dalit youth embrace the development agenda, they will develop some pride, start participating in the economic engine, prosper and contribute to culture building. This is a positive approach. What CONartists do is all negative - they hope that Dalits stay where they are (so that they will continue to depend on the handouts) and don't become prosperous and abandon the vote-bank. The youth are already realizing the CONgame. That was why Modi was elected with such a majority in May 2014 and CONmen were forced to bite the dust.

Muslim and Dalit youth won't be a part of CON-vote-bank. They will be the ones who will dump CONmen in the garbage bin. MT's and Vadra's days are numbered. AND, Marie Antoinette and Ceausescu will eventually be hanged by Dalits and Muslims.

Coming back to the CM of Bihar, you didn't respond to my question on his son. Don't forget that Bihari voters are watching what the CM and his son are getting away with. Why should they vote for such people? AND you conveniently ignore this issue and create an issue out of nothing just to peddle your fukular sikularism. Shame on you.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:43 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.

Is it your contention that Dalit youth will stop making any demand for caste based reservations for themselves?
With respect to the temple, the CM is saying the temple idols were washed immediately after he left and he says he was informed by his confidantes that the priests washed the idols because the presence of a Dalit necessitated this action.
If Dalit youth embrace the development agenda, they will develop some pride, start participating in the economic engine, prosper and contribute to culture building. This is a positive approach. What CONartists do is all negative - they hope that Dalits stay where they are (so that they will continue to depend on the handouts) and don't become prosperous and abandon the vote-bank. The youth are already realizing the CONgame. That was why Modi was elected with such a majority in May 2014 and CONmen were forced to bite the dust.

Muslim and Dalit youth won't be a part of CON-vote-bank. They will be the ones who will dump CONmen in the garbage bin. MT's and Vadra's days are numbered. AND, Marie Antoinette and Ceausescu will eventually be hanged by Dalits and Muslims.

Coming back to the CM of Bihar, you didn't respond to my question on his son. Don't forget that Bihari voters are watching what the CM and his son are getting away with. Why should they vote for such people? AND you conveniently ignore this issue and create an issue out of nothing just to peddle your fukular sikularism. Shame on you.

if you think dalits will accept the idea of caste based reservations being taken away from them, you are mistaken. Modi cannot put an end to caste based politics since OBCs and dalits will never accept the idea of caste based reservations being taken away from them. During the Lok Sabha elections the BJP had in fact played up the fact that Modi himself was an OBC (particularly in Uttar Pradesh). Regarding the Bihar CM's son you may read this news article:

According to reports from Gaya, the CM's son accompanied by a lady policewoman of Bihar Military Police (BMP) allegedly flouted his father's position and asked a hotel management to give a deluxe suite to them on Thursday.

Fed up with meeting such a demand from the CM's son, the hotel employees in Gaya locked the two inside the suite that day and raised an alarm. The boy managed to be released after coughing up cash, the reports said.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bihar-chief-minister-jitan-ram-manjhi-defends-son-alleged-sexual-escapade-policewoman/1/377417.html
----

it is true that what the CM's son did may have been improper but after all he did eventually pay up the requisite money for the room to the hotel. The CM is saying that 'anyone can have a girlfriend'; the CM is right. All in all, this is a minor issue not worth serious analysis.

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:45 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.
So you're saying that he is a liar, upper caste Hindus don't discriminate and such incidents are unheard of. Come on sir, you don't need to find excuses for those narrow minded folks. Until recently, dalits weren't even allowed to enter the temple(s), probably still in practice in some places.

So, the temple people should stop washing because it may be misunderstood by the Dalit CM? May be they should also not ask the CM if he had a bath before coming to the temple (another Hindu custom that everyone is supposed to follow) because that may be misunderstood as slighting a Dalit. The gentleman should first know what the temple procedures are before complaining about nothing. He doesn't deserve to be the CM if he is ignorant of it. Why should Hinduism or Hindus apologize for his cunning behavior?

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:49 am

Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.
So you're saying that he is a liar, upper caste Hindus don't discriminate and such incidents are unheard of. Come on sir, you don't need to find excuses for those narrow minded folks. Until recently, dalits weren't even allowed to enter the temple(s), probably still in practice in some places.
So, the temple people should stop washing because it may be misunderstood by the Dalit CM? May be they should also not ask the CM if he had a bath before coming to the temple (another Hindu custom that everyone is supposed to follow) because that may be misunderstood as slighting a Dalit. The gentleman should first know what the temple procedures are before complaining about nothing. He doesn't deserve to be the CM if he is ignorant of it. Why should Hinduism or Hindus apologize for his cunning behavior?

Even as Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi goes on showcasing his state as a case study in development, the centuries-old evil practice of not allowing Dalits to enter temples still plagues a village in Ahmedabad district.

Around 100 Dalit families of Galsana village in Dhandhuka taluka are testimony to the backwardness that still prevails the state in many areas of social life. Upper caste members of the village do not allow them to enter the premises of village temples.

The village has five temples, including a Swaminarayan temple, and Dalits have never stepped inside any of them.

However, on February 4, four Dalit families decided to enter the premises of the Swaminarayan temple and asked for police protection for the same. They chose that day as the village had planned pran-pratishthan of Lord Swaminarayan after the reconstruction of the 22-year-old temple located in the middle of the village.

The invitations sent out for the event were the last straw for the Dalits as the temple management had made separate seating arrangements for SCs at the mass feast.

“However, on February 4, the temple authorities and villagers ensured that the temple remained closed to prevent us from entering it,” Sunil Parmar, a Dalit, said.

Swami Krishna Vallabh, the Mahant Swami of Muli Swaminarayan Temple in Surendranagar and chief organiser of the event, conceded that the event had indeed been cancelled. “We had to cancel it as the other villagers were unhappy with the idea of Dalits entering the temple,” he said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-no-entry-for-dalits-in-gujarat-temple-1798612

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:50 am

Rashmun wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Vakavaka Pakapaka wrote:Rashmun:

As I wrote some time ago, the sikular era is coming to an end. Just today, Modi said the same about vote-bank politics. If Dalit old farts try to get some milage out of their Dalit-ness, Dalit youth will start beating them up. You just watch.

Coming back to the BIMARU CM, the temple does a cleaning in the morning and evening. It is a custom that is followed in Hindiusm in all parts of India. So, the temple that he visited has done nothing wrong.

Some time ago there was a report that his son uses a room in a hotel for his perversions, doesn't pay the hotel for the stay and threatens the management. What has the CM done to put his Dalit son on a proper path? Why isn't he arrested and put in jail?

Your sikularism is starting to stink.
So you're saying that he is a liar, upper caste Hindus don't discriminate and such incidents are unheard of. Come on sir, you don't need to find excuses for those narrow minded folks. Until recently, dalits weren't even allowed to enter the temple(s), probably still in practice in some places.
So, the temple people should stop washing because it may be misunderstood by the Dalit CM? May be they should also not ask the CM if he had a bath before coming to the temple (another Hindu custom that everyone is supposed to follow) because that may be misunderstood as slighting a Dalit. The gentleman should first know what the temple procedures are before complaining about nothing. He doesn't deserve to be the CM if he is ignorant of it. Why should Hinduism or Hindus apologize for his cunning behavior?

Even as Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi goes on showcasing his state as a case study in development, the centuries-old evil practice of not allowing Dalits to enter temples still plagues a village in Ahmedabad district.

Around 100 Dalit families of Galsana village in Dhandhuka taluka are testimony to the backwardness that still prevails the state in many areas of social life. Upper caste members of the village do not allow them to enter the premises of village temples.

The village has five temples, including a Swaminarayan temple, and Dalits have never stepped inside any of them.

However, on February 4, four Dalit families decided to enter the premises of the Swaminarayan temple and asked for police protection for the same. They chose that day as the village had planned pran-pratishthan of Lord Swaminarayan after the reconstruction of the 22-year-old temple located in the middle of the village.

The invitations sent out for the event were the last straw for the Dalits as the temple management had made separate seating arrangements for SCs at the mass feast.

“However, on February 4, the temple authorities and villagers ensured that the temple remained closed to prevent us from entering it,” Sunil Parmar, a Dalit, said.

Swami Krishna Vallabh, the Mahant Swami of Muli Swaminarayan Temple in Surendranagar and chief organiser of the event, conceded that the event had indeed been cancelled. “We had to cancel it as the other villagers were unhappy with the idea of Dalits entering the temple,” he said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-no-entry-for-dalits-in-gujarat-temple-1798612

Chennai:A hundred Dalits were arrested after they tried to enter a temple in the Madurai district of Tamil Nadu on Monday morning.

The Dalits were being led by a CPM politician into a temple in Uthapuram village.

Anticipating trouble between the Dalits and upper caste village, the police had imposed Section 144 which bans any gathering of more than four people.

For decades, Dalit families were not allowed into the temple, which is managed by non-Dalits.

In 2008, a wall which separated a colony where Dalit families live from the rest of the village was demolished on the orders of Chief Minister M Karunanidhi.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/100-dalits-arrested-for-trying-to-enter-temple-82496

by Vakavaka Pakapaka Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:54 am

Rashmun:

Re: Chennai and Gujrat.

A proper investigation should be made to ensure that injustice is done. If there is evidence, those involved in the practice should be severely punished so that others don't do the same.

by Seva Lamberdar Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:01 pm

Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.
That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

He will say there can be no compromise on the question of caste based reservations. Personally I feel progressive people should first target caste based reservations for OBC people first. OBC people are a prosperous community and they are never attacked or victimized or humiliated. It makes no sense to give them reservations other than reasons to do with vote bank politics. Also Modi will not be able to end vote bank politics since OBCs and Dalits will refuse to give up caste based reservation benefits.

The caste based quotas in education and jobs need to end simultaneously for OBC and SC categories. The sooner it is done, the better it will be for all (OBC, SC and others). In any case, leaving the quotas intact for SC while ending them for OBC will only make people from the OBC category try to assume the SC status by all means, and that won't be good.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:04 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.
That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

He will say there can be no compromise on the question of caste based reservations. Personally I feel progressive people should first target caste based reservations for OBC people first. OBC people are a prosperous community and they are never attacked or victimized or humiliated. It makes no sense to give them reservations other than reasons to do with vote bank politics. Also Modi will not be able to end vote bank politics since OBCs and Dalits will refuse to give up caste based reservation benefits.
The caste based quotas in education and jobs need to end simultaneously for OBC and SC categories. The sooner it is done, the better it will be for all (OBC, SC and others). In any case, leaving the quotas intact for SC while ending them for OBC will only make people from the OBC category try to assume the SC status by all means, and that won't be good.

excellent point.

by confuzzled dude Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:09 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Rashmun wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jitan-ram-manjhi-bihar-chief-minister-people-treat-me-as-untouchable/1/393210.html

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.
That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

He will say there can be no compromise on the question of caste based reservations. Personally I feel progressive people should first target caste based reservations for OBC people first. OBC people are a prosperous community and they are never attacked or victimized or humiliated. It makes no sense to give them reservations other than reasons to do with vote bank politics. Also Modi will not be able to end vote bank politics since OBCs and Dalits will refuse to give up caste based reservation benefits.
The caste based quotas in education and jobs need to end simultaneously for OBC and SC categories. The sooner it is done, the better it will be for all (OBC, SC and others). In any case, leaving the quotas intact for SC while ending them for OBC will only make people from the OBC category try to assume the SC status by all means, and that won't be good.

What have archaic practices/customs got to do with reservations, sir? Let's not mix those two issues to come up with some convoluted and meaningless justification, all it does is show us in a bad light.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:14 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

Bihar Chief Minister Jitan Ram Manjhi on Sunday revealed that he is still treated as an "untouchable" by some "powerful people" as he is a poor Mahadalit, the most backward among the community.

"Even today, despite my being the chief minister, some powerful people treat me as untouchable because I am a Mahadalit," Manjhi said at a function.

He said some people washed idols of deities after he performed prayers and rituals in Madhubani district.

"I was specially invited by some people to participate in prayers and offer rituals at a function but a senior leader Ram Lakhan Ram informed me after my return that they washed the idols of the god and goddess and their home as I was an untouchable," he narrated in anguish.
That may be so (a few people in Bihar washing their homes and worship idols after he visited them), but ask him if his being "untouchable" (some people washing their homes and idols after he visits them) qualifies him and others in his family and community for a wholesale quota based on caste in education and jobs from Govt.?

He will say there can be no compromise on the question of caste based reservations. Personally I feel progressive people should first target caste based reservations for OBC people first. OBC people are a prosperous community and they are never attacked or victimized or humiliated. It makes no sense to give them reservations other than reasons to do with vote bank politics. Also Modi will not be able to end vote bank politics since OBCs and Dalits will refuse to give up caste based reservation benefits.
The caste based quotas in education and jobs need to end simultaneously for OBC and SC categories. The sooner it is done, the better it will be for all (OBC, SC and others). In any case, leaving the quotas intact for SC while ending them for OBC will only make people from the OBC category try to assume the SC status by all means, and that won't be good.
What have archaic practices/customs got to do with reservations, sir? Let's not mix those two issues to come up with some convoluted and meaningless justification, all it does is show us in a bad light.

caste based reservations help perpetuate casteism.

by truthbetold Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:22 pm

It is sad to see people bring up reservations when discussion is about Hindu ignorance to treat a fellow human being as an unreachable.

by truthbetold Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:24 pm

Yes. untouchability is a cause of today reservations.

by confuzzled dude Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:27 pm

Rashmun wrote: caste based reservations help perpetuate casteism.

How old is the caste system? and how old is the reservation system? Were Hindus less caste minded, say 300 years ago or 1000 years ago, when caste based reservations were not in place? was the practice of untouchability not in existence, were they letting them inside their houses let alone temples? Why did it last for 1000s of years prior to the reservations are introduced.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:28 pm

truthbetold wrote:Yes. untouchability is a cause of today reservations.

this argument applies partially to dalits; it does not apply even in a remote way to OBCs. In fact the maximum atrocities on dalits in India is carried out by OBCs.

by truthbetold Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:44 pm

The original reservations idea included in Indian constitution was based on the historical knowledge of extreme denial of opportunity for socially outcaste segements of hindu populations.

by Guest Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:49 pm

truthbetold wrote:The original reservations idea included in Indian constitution was based on the historical knowledge of extreme denial of opportunity for socially outcaste segements of hindu populations.

OBCs have always been a prosperous community. They have never been a marginalized community by any stretch of imagination. Pandit Nehru had clearly stated that the policy of caste based reservations must be phased out but sadly it has been expanded to include not just dalits but also OBCs. If this policy continues the brightest and the best among upper caste hindus will migrate out of India. Ditto for people of other religions. After all why would anyone want to bring up children in a country where colleges have 50% caste based reservations for the available seats?

by truthbetold Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:24 am

Rash
Pandering to vote banks is the strength of Congress. They now invented Muslim reservations. Fight Congress to stop such actions.
But such misuse cannot negate the basic reason for sc/st reservation.

The other problem I have is why is the issue of dalit cm's mistreatment deserves a response about reservations?

It is not the dalits who committed a historical atrocity.

Hindus should own up responsibility rather than seeking ways obfuscate the issue.

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:55 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote: caste based reservations help perpetuate casteism.
How old is the caste system? and how old is the reservation system? Were Hindus less caste minded, say 300 years ago or 1000 years ago, when caste based reservations were not in place? was the practice of untouchability not in existence, were they letting them inside their houses let alone temples? Why did it last for 1000s of years prior to the reservations are introduced.

The question is not on how old is the caste system, but about not having something new, e.g. in the form of Govt. supported caste based quotas / reservations in education and jobs, which help in promoting and prolonging the caste system and even fuel more casteism and caste based discrimination in society.

It's sad that the very people who complain and decry about the caste system and the past casteism affecting them have no qualms about exploiting their "low" castes (as OBC and SC) for the sake of Govt. quotas in education and jobs.

If anything, they should instead be working to seek help from Govt. in education etc. on the basis of their poor economic condition (if they are really poor and lacking resources) and not according to their caste (if someone washed his / her home or the worship idols after their visit).

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:10 am

truthbetold wrote:Rash
Pandering to vote banks is the strength of Congress. They now invented Muslim reservations. Fight Congress to stop such actions.
But such misuse cannot negate the basic reason for sc/st reservation.

The other problem I have is why is the issue of dalit cm's mistreatment deserves a response about reservations?

It is not the dalits who committed a historical atrocity.

Hindus should own up responsibility rather than seeking ways obfuscate the issue.

No historical atrocity was ever committed on OBCs. It is my belief that people who are supportive of reservations for OBCs even though deep down they know it is wrong is usually because they are themselves OBCs and they do not wish to miss the gravy train.

Congress did not begin reservations for OBCs. VP Singh did ( after Singh had formed his own party). Congress may have initiated the procedure for reservations for OBC Muslims also but this was something that was never opposed by any major party including the BJP. There was probably a consensus on this issue among all the political parties.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:15 am

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote: caste based reservations help perpetuate casteism.
How old is the caste system? and how old is the reservation system? Were Hindus less caste minded, say 300 years ago or 1000 years ago, when caste based reservations were not in place? was the practice of untouchability not in existence, were they letting them inside their houses let alone temples? Why did it last for 1000s of years prior to the reservations are introduced.
The question is not on how old is the caste system, but about not having something new, e.g. in the form of Govt. supported caste based quotas / reservations in education and jobs, which help in promoting and prolonging the caste system and even fuel more casteism and caste based discrimination in society.

It's sad that the very people who complain and decry about the caste system and the past casteism affecting them have no qualms about exploiting their "low" castes (as OBC and SC) for the sake of Govt. quotas in education and jobs.

If anything, they should instead be working to seek help from Govt. in education etc. on the basis of their poor economic condition (if they are really poor and lacking resources) and not according to their caste (if someone washed his / her home or the worship idols after their visit).

Apples and Oranges, Sevaji. This topic is not about reservations rather about a well established practice.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:20 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote: caste based reservations help perpetuate casteism.
How old is the caste system? and how old is the reservation system? Were Hindus less caste minded, say 300 years ago or 1000 years ago, when caste based reservations were not in place? was the practice of untouchability not in existence, were they letting them inside their houses let alone temples? Why did it last for 1000s of years prior to the reservations are introduced.
The question is not on how old is the caste system, but about not having something new, e.g. in the form of Govt. supported caste based quotas / reservations in education and jobs, which help in promoting and prolonging the caste system and even fuel more casteism and caste based discrimination in society.

It's sad that the very people who complain and decry about the caste system and the past casteism affecting them have no qualms about exploiting their "low" castes (as OBC and SC) for the sake of Govt. quotas in education and jobs.

If anything, they should instead be working to seek help from Govt. in education etc. on the basis of their poor economic condition (if they are really poor and lacking resources) and not according to their caste (if someone washed his / her home or the worship idols after their visit).
Apples and Oranges, Sevaji. This topic is not about reservations rather about a well established practice.

Caste based reservations help promote and perpetuate casteism.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:05 am

I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:20 am

Rashmun wrote:I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.

Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:27 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.
Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:32 am

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.
Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.

What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:42 am

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.
Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.
What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:41 pm

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:I find it interesting that TBT and CD, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are both supportive of caste based reservations for OBCs.
Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.
What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.

You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:45 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun, Although TBT & I, fall under sudra category of classic varna system, both of us belong to the so called FC category of present day so don't get too ahead of yourself and get too defensive thinking I'm (an OBC/BC and ) criticizing only Brahmins for these practices. In A.P, historically, none of the FC communities have treated dalits well.

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.
What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.
You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:53 pm

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

It is my understanding that someone whose ancestors were sudras could never hope to classified as upper caste hindus of today although they could certainly be classified as OBC hindus of today. OBC hindu castes originated because of intermarriages between upper castes and sudras. If both you and TBT are OBCs then that would explain your support for caste based reservations for OBCs.
What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.
You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.

Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:59 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
What nonsense? You need to brush up on your knowledge on reservation categories.

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.
You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.
Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:08 pm

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

We are now discussing the question of whether sudras could become upper caste hindus with the passage of time. This has nothing to do with reservations.
You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.
Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.

This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:12 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
You've changed the topic since that myth of yours has been dispelled? Your logic of relating reservation system with age old varna system is bemusing; how does it matter when I said Govt. of India has decided to place my caste people into General Category. In any case, feel free to discuss away on the history of HINDU mulattoes, I won't be offended.

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.
Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:18 pm

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

I did not change the topic; I simply responded to your claim that your family used to be sudras at one time but are now upper caste hindus.
Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.

Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

by Guest Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:27 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Where did I do that? I merely mentioned that I didn't/can't take advantage of reservations for the fact that my caste has been categorized as FC since your assertion was that I support reservations because I can take/took advantage of it. You know nothing about AP nor the caste system of AP but if you still want to continue to make a fool of yourself, be my guest.

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.
Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

You were the one who said your family used to be sudras as per the classical varna system but are now classified as upper caste hindus. My contention is that your family could have made the leap to OBC status but not upper caste hindu status if it started off as sudras.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:19 pm

Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

But you also said your family used to be categorized as sudras earlier ( as per the classical varna system) didn't you? Your claim that I have no knowledge of the caste system in AP is your personal opinion/fantasy and you are entitled to it.
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.
Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

You were the one who said your family used to be sudras as per the classical varna system but are now classified as upper caste hindus. My contention is that your family could have made the leap to OBC status but not upper caste hindu status if it started off as sudras.

Can you show me where I said that? I suggest you file a petition with the Govt. of India as they appear to have erroneously classified us in FC/GC category.

P.S: Are you getting lessons on debating techniques from Sevaji or what?

by Seva Lamberdar Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:24 pm

confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
This discussion just proved it, didn't it? In A.P, Kshatriya caste is not loosely tagged to every tom, dick & harry like they do in the North. Of course, I can go on claiming that I'm Kshatriya because ancestors of my caste people were rulers and had established kingdoms.

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.
Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

You were the one who said your family used to be sudras as per the classical varna system but are now classified as upper caste hindus. My contention is that your family could have made the leap to OBC status but not upper caste hindu status if it started off as sudras.

Can you show me where I said that? I suggest you file a petition with the Govt. of India as they appear to have erroneously classified us in FC/GC category.

P.S: Are you getting lessons on debating techniques from Sevaji or what?

don't drag my name into your A.P. / Bihar debate.

by confuzzled dude Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:29 pm

Seva Lamberdar wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:
confuzzled dude wrote:
Rashmun wrote:

You would be wrong to make such a claim since there have been Sudra kings in North India also. This shows your level of understanding of the caste system.
Of course, you know a lot and you also know very well to put your words into others mouth i.e. attributing your assumptions to/as others claims.

You were the one who said your family used to be sudras as per the classical varna system but are now classified as upper caste hindus. My contention is that your family could have made the leap to OBC status but not upper caste hindu status if it started off as sudras.

Can you show me where I said that? I suggest you file a petition with the Govt. of India as they appear to have erroneously classified us in FC/GC category.

P.S: Are you getting lessons on debating techniques from Sevaji or what?
don't drag my name into your A.P. / Bihar debate.

My bad Sevaji, won't be repeated.

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