Battle for the minds of young Muslims

BERLIN — After the latest of his sermons denouncing the Islamic State, Mohamed Taha Sabri stepped down from an ornate platform at the House of Peace mosque. The 48-year-old chief preacher then moved to greet his congregation, steeling himself for the fallout

Soon, two young men — they are almost always young, but not always men — were calling him out. Only moments before, Sabri had derided the militants’ tactics, saying “it is not our task to turn women into slaves, to bomb churches, to slaughter people in front of cameras while shouting ‘God is great!’ ”
One young man in a black leather jacket angrily chided him for challenging “Muslim freedom fighters.” His companion in a yellow shirt then chimed in: “What is your problem with the Islamic State? You are on the wrong path!”

“No,” said Sabri, embracing the surprised young men. “My brothers, you are the ones on the wrong path.”

In the era of the Islamic State, the wrong path has become all too familiar ground at the House of Peace. Nestled between the kebab restaurants and bric-a-brac shops of an immigrant neighborhood in south Berlin, the liberal mosque stood for years as a temple of tolerance where battered Muslim women could find help divorcing their husbands and progressive imams preached a positive message of religious tolerance.

But as a ruthless brand of Islamic ideology radiates from the battlefields of the Middle East, the House of Peace has become a microcosm of the new fault lines developing inside countless mosques in the West. It illustrates the daily battle being fought against the militant group’s message by thousands of moderate religious leaders in Europe and beyond.

It is a fight that is sowing fresh divisions, and one the moderates do not always win. At least two youths who used to worship at the House of Peace — including Denis Cuspert, a former German rapper recently filmed holding the head of an enemy in an Islamic State video — have already left to wage jihad in Syria and Iraq. Another former worshiper here — an 18-year-old female convert to Islam — is now actively making plans to travel to Syria with an Islamic State fighter.

They also feel caught in a vice, between the Islamic State’s radicalism on one hand, and a sense of growing Islamaphobia within German society on the other. Right-wing protests have broken out around Germany, ostensibly against radical Islam but with overtones of a broader religious bias. A local Berlin lawmaker has already blocked the sale of a nearby city property that the House of Peace hoped to acquire for an expansion.

“It is our job to make sure our youth do not give in to discrimination and follow the wrong path,” Sabri said. “We try to reach out, we try to make them feel that this is their country, that religious tolerance is the right path. But for some of them, the message of the Islamic State has confused them.”

Three weeks ago, Imam Ferid Heider, a part-time preacher and coordinator of a youth group at the House of Peace, received an anonymous note asking if it is okay to kill Christians and Jews. Not long afterward, the author of that note — an 18-year-old girl who gave her name as Meryam — was wandering down a Berlin street with a journalist.

Meryam is making plans to move to Syria with a Tunisian-born fighter for the Islamic State. A friend of hers has told leaders at the House of Peace of her intentions, but so far, the friend has honored Meryam’s request not to reveal her identity to the mosque, whose leaders still hope to stage a family intervention that might prevent her flight.

Her awareness of the Islamic State has grown in recent months, she said. She has watched their videos on YouTube. Though she turns away from the ones with graphic beheadings and mass executions, she calls those acts righteous vengeance against nonbelievers.

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

The Tunisian man who Meryam plans to wed is in Berlin, she says, waiting for her divorce to be final. He is the first cousin of a friend of hers, and he recently entered Europe illegally, she said, after leaving Syria with a group of other Islamic State fighters of Yemeni and Chechen descent.

Meryam will be his second wife — a fact she said she fully accepts.

“I believe I have found the right man,” she said.

Together, she said, they have visited the House of Peace, where her betrothed was outraged by Sabri’s sermons against the Islamic State. She has since ceased worshiping there, and pulled out of a weekly youth group at the House of Peace. “He said . . . these people are nonbelievers.”

Like several of the most extreme youths who have gone to Syria from the West, Meryam is also a convert. She was 14 at the time. The year she converted, a close Muslim friend was killed in a neighborhood stabbing. She attended prayer vigils at his mosque, talked to some people, made the big leap. Her divorced parents were surprised but took no action to stop her.
She says she and other devout Muslims feel ostracized in German society. When she first started wearing a partial head covering, she said, she was already being turned down for jobs. When she started wearing a niqab, it became “impossible to find work.”

Meryam said her mother knows of her plan to travel to Syria but has promised to let her daughter follow her faith. Her father still does not know.

“I don’t think my father would agree,” she said. When he sees her in a Muslim veil, she said he often tells her, “ ‘If this is how you want to live, then go and live in an Islamic country.’ So that’s what I will do.”

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK. And this very article mentioned German rapper who opted to convert.

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK

>>>It has to with allowing increasing radicalization of mosques, in the name of political correctness or a genuine belief that everyone is good, even when facts get in the way. The radical mullahs then acquire a fan following among the riffraff  even in the general population which is looking for easy answers. There is also a subset in the immigrant muslim populations in Europe which never assimilated. This is more common among the second generation who gravitate toward radicalism.We don't see the latter syndrome in the US maybe because it offers more opportunities to climb up the economic ladder swiftly.

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK. And this very article mentioned German rapper who opted to convert.

There are always misanthropic outcasts who want to make a name for themselves. Radical Islam provides them a way. (Not everyone has an easy out like you -whining on SuCH)

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK. And this very article mentioned German rapper who opted to convert.

There are always misanthropic outcasts who want to make a name for themselves. Radical Islam provides them a way. (Not everyone has an easy out like you -whining on SuCH)

Are you turning into another Uppili of SuCH?!

confuzzled dude wrote:Wonder why are these young men and women who belong to other faiths are being attracted to this radical brand of Islam. Are these a few bad apples similar to the bad Muslim young fellows? What are the parents and moderates of the societies these people hail from, are doing to prevent this from expanding further?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Like several of the most extreme youths who have gone to Syria from the West, Meryam is also a convert. She was 14 at the time. The year she converted, a close Muslim friend was killed in a neighborhood stabbing. She attended prayer vigils at his mosque, talked to some people, made the big leap. Her divorced parents were surprised but took no action to stop her.
She says she and other devout Muslims feel ostracized in German society. When she first started wearing a partial head covering, she said, she was already being turned down for jobs. When she started wearing a niqab, it became “impossible to find work.”

Meryam said her mother knows of her plan to travel to Syria but has promised to let her daughter follow her faith. Her father still does not know.

“I don’t think my father would agree,” she said. When he sees her in a Muslim veil, she said he often tells her, “ ‘If this is how you want to live, then go and live in an Islamic country.’ So that’s what I will do.”

Hellsangel wrote:
Well, since you're gloating here that Western freedom is not preventing the youth from following the path of Islamic militancy. It is no different from German youth who get drawn into Neo Nazi cults or youth in the US who get drawn into black gangs.

Hellsangel wrote:
Your German rapper hero seems to have hurt his head in a bad accident before he joined the ranks of ISIS.

Kinnera wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Wonder why are these young men and women who belong to other faiths are being attracted to this radical brand of Islam. Are these a few bad apples similar to the bad Muslim young fellows? What are the parents and moderates of the societies these people hail from, are doing to prevent this from expanding further?

The young minds are easily attracted to the rebellions and revolts. They see Islamic fundamentalist as one such rebellion and hence are attracted to it. I don't think it's for any philosophical or religious reasons. Remember how back in the 60s, the youth was attracted to the hippie movement? In the 80s, naxalism was big in AP, especially in the telangana region. There were a lot of radicals in the colleges in the telangana region and also hyd and many youngsters took to naxalism. It was kinda of glamorous and cool to be a naxal. Same thing with islamic radicalism too, i guess.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kinnera wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:Wonder why are these young men and women who belong to other faiths are being attracted to this radical brand of Islam. Are these a few bad apples similar to the bad Muslim young fellows? What are the parents and moderates of the societies these people hail from, are doing to prevent this from expanding further?

The young minds are easily attracted to the rebellions and revolts. They see Islamic fundamentalism as one such rebellion and hence are attracted to it. I don't think it's for any philosophical or religious reasons. Remember how back in the 60s, the youth was attracted to the hippie movement? In the 80s, naxalism was big in AP, especially in the telangana region. There were a lot of radicals in the colleges in the telangana region and also hyd and many youngsters took to naxalism. It was kinda of glamorous and cool to be a naxal. Same thing with islamic radicalism too, i guess.

Does this theory apply only to non-muslim kids or it applies everyone?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
Well, since you're gloating here that Western freedom is not preventing the youth from following the path of Islamic militancy. It is no different from German youth who get drawn into Neo Nazi cults or youth in the US who get drawn into black gangs.

Good to know that.

Hellsangel wrote:
Your German rapper hero seems to have hurt his head in a bad accident before he joined the ranks of ISIS.

Hmmm..

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

Meryam is jobless. She first married at age 16. She fits a profile; large numbers of Western jihadists have come from socially disadvantaged homes, their lives plagued by unemployment and family turmoil.

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK

>>>It has to with allowing increasing radicalization of mosques, in the name of political correctness or a genuine belief that everyone is good, even when facts get in the way. The radical mullahs then acquire a fan following among the riffraff  even in the general population which is looking for easy answers. There is also a subset in the immigrant muslim populations in Europe which never assimilated. This is more common among the second generation who gravitate toward radicalism.We don't see the latter syndrome in the US maybe because it offers more opportunities to climb up the economic ladder swiftly.

In all likelihood, parents of these kids might be attending the same mosque(s), are they knowingly encouraging their kids to turn into wackos? I think Max posted an article a while ago about the daughter of a former Pakstani cricketer living in England(?), who were moderate, living in an upper middle-class neighborhood, send his kids to private schools. If my memory serves me right, they caught off-guard when they got a call from her daughter from Syria or something to that effect. Why do these educated women want to marry extremists, what's attracting them? About your point about assimilation, it is a two way street, not completely immigrants problem.

Kris wrote:
>>>>There is a certain dynamic in many of these mosques. They have become increasingly radicalized over time and the trend has accelerated over the last two decades. The audience also comes from different political viewpoints. The radical preachers also fish in troubled waters and target disenchanted youth. It may not be just an assimilation-related matter. The upper-middle class youth joining jihadi groups may be due to personal histories (if I remember, one of the main thugs in  LeT  had attended the London School of Economics at least for some time), but England having been bad to them seems like an unlikely basis. Of course, the whole issue begs the question of why other immigrant groups don't have anything approaching this type of radicalization.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:
>>>>There is a certain dynamic in many of these mosques. They have become increasingly radicalized over time and the trend has accelerated over the last two decades. The audience also comes from different political viewpoints. The radical preachers also fish in troubled waters and target disenchanted youth. It may not be just an assimilation-related matter. The upper-middle class youth joining jihadi groups may be due to personal histories (if I remember, one of the main thugs in  LeT  had attended the London School of Economics at least for some time), but England having been bad to them seems like an unlikely basis. Of course, the whole issue begs the question of why other immigrant groups don't have anything approaching this type of radicalization.

Well, if you look at the number of IS fighters from Europe that is insignificant, for example, 500-1000 out of 3 million muslim population in UK is minuscule (0.001%, if we assume 1 million are youngsters) which fails to prove the assimilation theory or falling prey to radical elements. Other immigrant groups are not interested because this issue on the surface is related to Islam. If it were about Christianity or Judaism then you would see the folks from those immigrant groups reacting or getting attracted to such movements.

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Kris wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:You didn't read the article, did you, Comrade? The answer is right there:

I suggest you stop patting yourself on the back. I've read the article before I posted. That is one plausible reason probably holds true for that country but one cant say the same about UK

>>>It has to with allowing increasing radicalization of mosques, in the name of political correctness or a genuine belief that everyone is good, even when facts get in the way. The radical mullahs then acquire a fan following among the riffraff  even in the general population which is looking for easy answers. There is also a subset in the immigrant muslim populations in Europe which never assimilated. This is more common among the second generation who gravitate toward radicalism.We don't see the latter syndrome in the US maybe because it offers more opportunities to climb up the economic ladder swiftly.

In all likelihood, parents of these kids might be attending the same mosque(s), are they knowingly encouraging their kids to turn into wackos? I think Max posted an article a while ago about the daughter of a former Pakstani cricketer living in England(?), who were moderate, living in an upper middle-class neighborhood, send his kids to private schools. If my memory serves me right, they caught off-guard when they got a call from her daughter from Syria or something to that effect. Why do these educated women want to marry extremists, what's attracting them? About your point about assimilation, it is a two way street, not completely immigrants problem.

>>>>There is a certain dynamic in many of these mosques. They have become increasingly radicalized over time and the trend has accelerated over the last two decades. The audience also comes from different political viewpoints. The radical preachers also fish in troubled waters and target disenchanted youth. It may not be just an assimilation-related matter. The upper-middle class youth joining jihadi groups may be due to personal histories (if I remember, one of the main thugs in  LeT  had attended the London School of Economics at least for some time), but England having been bad to them seems like an unlikely basis. Of course, the whole issue begs the question of why other immigrant groups don't have anything approaching this type of radicalization.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/23/us-mideast-crisis-britain-insight-idUSKCN0J70AB20141123 wrote:MUSLIM 'GHETTOS' AND GANG CULTURE

A main street in this central English city bustles with life. Travelers rush in and out of the train station, couples enter coffee houses and a man is performing freestyle rap.

Three young men have a booth set up not five meters away from him. A stereo is playing Qu'ranic verse in Arabic followed by English translation. A verse detailing Islam's version of the life of Jesus and Mary plays while the men hand out flyers.

There are over 213,000 Muslims in Birmingham, making up over a fifth of the population according to the 2011 census. Neighborhoods like Balsall Heath, where Iqbal grew up, are predominantly Muslim and working class. They are also home to what he calls a "gang culture".

This macho mentality can drive young men to join gangs and sell drugs, or join jihadi groups and fight in the Middle East.

"It is all about acceptance. He wants to feel part of something, he wants to be respected or feared, he wants to feel part of a cause and feel needed," Iqbal explained.

Jihadi culture and the bravado that goes with it as well the sanitization of war and glamorization of weapons play a larger role in the rationalization of young Muslim men than Islamist ideology argues Jahan Mahmood, who mentors the community youth.

Hellsangel wrote:
An interesting article about Muslims in the UK:

Iqbal and Waheed have dozens of similar stories. The former has had pig heads and beer thrown at him in soccer venues and both men have had racial slurs yelled at them in the street.

"Many young people don't feel part of the mainstream anymore with the Islamophobia we see in the media," says Mahmood.

The isolation of the Muslim community led to it developing a siege mentality and out of that young people do not see themselves as part of the mainstream or Britain, instead they view themselves as part of a global Muslim nation and feel they have to "help their brothers" abroad.

In their lunch break Iqbal and Waheed discuss the futility of fighting. They conclude, however, that if someone is told over and over again that they are something, say a terrorist, by the media, they will eventually become that thing. "The power of suggestion is strong," says Waheed.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
An interesting article about Muslims in the UK:

Iqbal and Waheed have dozens of similar stories. The former has had pig heads and beer thrown at him in soccer venues and both men have had racial slurs yelled at them in the street.

"Many young people don't feel part of the mainstream anymore with the Islamophobia we see in the media," says Mahmood.

The isolation of the Muslim community led to it developing a siege mentality and out of that young people do not see themselves as part of the mainstream or Britain, instead they view themselves as part of a global Muslim nation and feel they have to "help their brothers" abroad.

In their lunch break Iqbal and Waheed discuss the futility of fighting. They conclude, however, that if someone is told over and over again that they are something, say a terrorist, by the media, they will eventually become that thing. "The power of suggestion is strong," says Waheed.

Interesting indeed!!

Hellsangel wrote:
You are nothing if not predictable, Comrade, to pick on this piece of the article. The young men (and women) who join ISIS are absolved of all blame, aren't they? By that token, the Columbine killers were fully justified having been bullied, right?

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
You are nothing if not predictable, Comrade, to pick on this piece of the article. The young men (and women) who join ISIS are absolved of all blame, aren't they? By that token, the Columbine killers were fully justified having been bullied, right?

You and other Islamophobics on this board aren't?!

Hellsangel wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Hellsangel wrote:
You are nothing if not predictable, Comrade, to pick on this piece of the article. The young men (and women) who join ISIS are absolved of all blame, aren't they? By that token, the Columbine killers were fully justified having been bullied, right?

You and other Islamophobics on this board aren't?!

There you go exercising your mind by jumping to conclusions again, Comrade.