Little evidence of 'terror' link, may have been petty smugglers

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

However, forensic experts contacted by The Sunday Express noted that photographs of the burning boat showed its structure was intact, a fact inconsistent with the explosions burning munitions would normally set off. The flames also showed no signs of the white plumes characteristically associated with fires involving explosives.

“It’s quite hard to set diesel on fire,” a Naval forensics expert said. “So, investigators would want to take a close look at what might have set off the fire — which would, of course, have to include the possibility of firearms being used to target it.” 

In a December 31 message, the NTRO said it had picked up Thuraya phone communications between the crew of the fishing boat and their associates on land, but stated they pertained to illicit trafficking, not terrorism. 

For reasons that remain unclear, the intelligence was not immediately shared with Research and Analysis Wing or Intelligence Bureau until two days later, even though the NTRO has no mandate to analyse or evaluate intelligence —its domain being technical collection, not analysis or operations. 

“Perhaps NTRO misinterpreted or mishandled the traffic it had,” an MoD official said. 

Thuraya phone communications were intercepted by the NTRO between 2006 and 2008, but their use by terrorists largely ended after it became clear that India had the capacity to break into the network. In the years since, terrorist commanders have switched to encrypted Inmarsat4 and Inmarsat5 sets with frequency-hopping, or to secure VoIP systems.

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

Your feeble attempts to defend the Congress for sowing seeds of dis-unity in the face of external aggression is misplaced. 

A)Firstly, as per reports, it was the boat which blew themselves up. So where is the question of dis-proportionate use of force? Firing warning shots cannot be called dis-proportionate use of force, when a boat does not stop even after being given a chase of 1 hour.

B)Also when does smuggling across national boundaries become small-time ? 
C) Why should they smuggle diesel from Pakistan to India ? The prices are not very different. Infact lower on the India side, if you keep in mind exchange rates. 
D)Why should they blow themselves up if they are just smuggling nothing of value? What exactly did they use to do that ? If the smugglers are not stopped today, they will bring in more weapons later.

Praveen swami does not ask any of this. His journalistic standards, which was anyway not much in the first place, have been falling quiet precariously offlate. Perhaps he wants a Pakistani Visa, which was denied to him earlier and is now trying to curry favour with the Paki establishment. He quotes un-named sources etc.. He deserves to be taken to task by the press council of India for un-substantiated incomplete investigations and baseless reports, without revealing sources on a sensitive matter like this, especially when India is facing an all out proxy war from Pakistan, that has been escalated.

Now,  Congress party deserves to be taken to task for their brazen act of questioning coast guard, when we are facing a proxy war and relentless unprovoked firing at the border and LOC. Such acts indicate that India needs Congress Mukt Bharat more than anything else. Congress party has stooped to such an extent, that they are linking it to Vibrant Gujarat. Morons of the first order.  Such a party deserves to be relegated to the dustbin for their brazenly anti-national acts.

Even if there are some questions to be asked, this is not the time, when India is under external aggression. But Congress party which played politics during Mumbai attacks and Kargil war , will never change.

http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/paksitan-terror-boat-congress-asks-narendra-modi-govt-to-come-clean-on-issue/25862/

confuzzled dude wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

Your feeble attempts to defend the Congress for sowing seeds of dis-unity in the face of external aggression is misplaced. 

A)Firstly, as per reports, it was the boat which blew themselves up. So where is the question of dis-proportionate use of force? Firing warning shots cannot be called dis-proportionate use of force, when a boat does not stop even after being given a chase of 1 hour.

B)Also when does smuggling across national boundaries become small-time ? 
C) Why should they smuggle diesel from Pakistan to India ? The prices are not very different. Infact lower on the India side, if you keep in mind exchange rates. 
D)Why should they blow themselves up if they are just smuggling nothing of value? What exactly did they use to do that ? If the smugglers are not stopped today, they will bring in more weapons later.

Praveen swami does not ask any of this. His journalistic standards, which was anyway not much in the first place, have been falling quiet precariously offlate. Perhaps he wants a Pakistani Visa, which was denied to him earlier and is now trying to curry favour with the Paki establishment. He quotes un-named sources etc.. He deserves to be taken to task by the press council of India for un-substantiated incomplete investigations and baseless reports, without revealing sources on a sensitive matter like this, especially when India is facing an all out proxy war from Pakistan, that has been escalated.

Now,  Congress party deserves to be taken to task for their brazen act of questioning coast guard, when we are facing a proxy war and relentless unprovoked firing at the border and LOC. Such acts indicate that India needs Congress Mukt Bharat more than anything else. Congress party has stooped to such an extent, that they are linking it to Vibrant Gujarat. Morons of the first order.  Such a party deserves to be relegated to the dustbin for their brazenly anti-national acts.

Even if there are some questions to be asked, this is not the time, when India is under external aggression. But Congress party which played politics during Mumbai attacks and Kargil war , will never change.

http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/paksitan-terror-boat-congress-asks-narendra-modi-govt-to-come-clean-on-issue/25862/

Haha! it doesn't take much criticism for chaddies to bring up maha-patriot astra, besides usual asinine verbal diarrhea, isn't it?

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

Your feeble attempts to defend the Congress for sowing seeds of dis-unity in the face of external aggression is misplaced....blah blah 

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

Your feeble attempts to defend the Congress for sowing seeds of dis-unity in the face of external aggression is misplaced....blah blah 

Rawmotions unkil, CD merely posted a link to an article that cited sources in the Indian Navy. The Congress and "feeble attempts to defend" it are bogeys in your feeble mind.

tingu wrote:

Merlot Daruwala wrote:

rawemotions wrote:

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

Your feeble attempts to defend the Congress for sowing seeds of dis-unity in the face of external aggression is misplaced....blah blah 

Rawmotions unkil, CD merely posted a link to an article that cited sources in the Indian Navy. The Congress and "feeble attempts to defend" it are bogeys in your feeble mind.

no they are not. congress was the first to run in defence of the perpetrators as you can read in the news. it caught CD's eye else he doesn't give a damn about the issue.

rawemotions wrote:
You posted the article. I am asking questions. If you have the guts answer my questions. defend the article and defend the Congress party. 

If you are not able to answer, gracefully bow out of the discussion. Rest all is meaningless drivel.


The link I gave to Congress party statements, proves more than ever the need for Congress-Mukt Bharat, because it is not even a responsible opposition. Even if you ask questions about the coast guard, being a party that was in  government. it should know that there is a time and place to ask those questions. They are literally becoming anarchists. 

confuzzled dude wrote:

Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it suspected was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.

There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/little-evidence-of-terror-link-may-have-been-petty-smugglers/

But oddly enough, both the internal and external intelligence agencies in India reportedly came to know about the suspect Pakistani fishing boat long after it sank, when the coastguard interceptor ship returned to its base in Gujarat on New Year’s day.

The boat came to the attention of Indian authorities when an agency tasked with tracking electronic communications in the region intercepted Thuraya satellite phone conversations about a suspicious ‘goods consignment’. The agency did not send the data for intelligence analysis. Instead, it informed the Indian navy and coast guard.

But the navy, which has primary responsibility for guarding the seas, ignored the alert. However, the coastguard commander based in the Gujarat city of Porbandar, Mahatma Gandhi’s birthplace, decided to act.

“The navy felt it was just a case of a small-time smuggler’s boat, but the coast guard perhaps wanted to paint a success and went ahead with the operation,” said defence analyst Ajai Shukla.

The coastguard hasn’t painted itself in flying colours after the sinking of the boat. The interceptor ship returned to base without collecting any debris from the Pakistani boat for naval forensic experts to establish what the cargo was and why the boat caught fire.

“Who knows what is the story behind the story,” said Shukla, who is a former army officer. “We may never discover the truth. But as it stands, the coastguard’s story of the high seas encounter doesn’t stand scrutiny. This is strictly my military opinion.”

confuzzled dude wrote:

rawemotions wrote:
You posted the article. I am asking questions. If you have the guts answer my questions. defend the article and defend the Congress party. 

If you are not able to answer, gracefully bow out of the discussion. Rest all is meaningless drivel.


The link I gave to Congress party statements, proves more than ever the need for Congress-Mukt Bharat, because it is not even a responsible opposition. Even if you ask questions about the coast guard, being a party that was in  government. it should know that there is a time and place to ask those questions. They are literally becoming anarchists. 

One need guts to counter a retarded loudmouth & a known religious bigot?! NDA has a strong track record of crying wolf, pointing fingers at Pakistan at the drop of hat. If you have any doubts ask Advaniji who made a fool of himself numerous times during NDA-1 regime.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-oil-smuggling-goes-on-with-different-modus-operandi-in-maharashtra-1503282

http://www.indianfrontliners.com/article/14858-bid-to-smuggle-out-400000-liters-of-subsidized-diesel/82-notice-board

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/195479/reftab/96/t/Customs-foils-bid-to-smuggle-250000-liters-diesel-to-India/Default.aspx

rawemotions wrote:
A person who does not have the guts to answer my direct questions about this incident related to Pakistan, now goes back almost 4 years, citing irrelevant articles involving other countries. My my! You are indeed getting so desperate to prove your hare brained theory of smuggling, that common sense seems to go out of the window.

The boat was in direct contact with Pakistan Maritime security, and was also roaming around the seas without docking anywhere. It was not a few nautical miles from the coast, but was 197 miles from the coast. Do you even know the size of the boat required to smuggle something like 400000 litres ?  Advani is not part of this government and is not even a minister.  

If you do not know the answers, say so or keep quiet. There ends the matter.  
End of discussion, as far as I am concerned.

First, as per standard procedure, any terrorism-related intelligence input must be shared with the Multi Agency Centre (MAC) that alerts all stakeholders. This mandatory procedure was put in place after the 26/11 attack on Mumbai in 2008 to ensure all key forces and agencies are prepared to respond to any terror attack. National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), the technical intelligence agency, that raised the alert on the basis of which the coast guard acted, did not alert the MAC.

As a result, the bulk of India’s key agencies -- the Intelligence Bureau, R&AW, naval intelligence, Gujarat police and the National Security Guard (NSG) were in the dark about the alert. Not only that, even the Joint Operations Centre of the Western Naval Command in Mumbai, which is responsible for all maritime operations on the West coast, was not alerted.

Second, key intelligence agencies monitor sea-based communication from Bhuj in Gujarat. However, the NTRO, the source of this particular alert, does not have a sea-based communication monitoring station there. It has a station in Jammu from where it monitors satellite-based communication. “We were told the alert was raised after the NTRO intercepted conversations on a Thuraya satellite phone,” a senior intelligence official told HT.

“But we haven’t had a Thuraya intercept since 2008 because Pakistan knows it can be easily intercepted and tracked up to 25 metres of its location,” he added.

The National Technical Research Organisation’s (NTRO's) intelligence alerts about the fishing boat that caught fire and sank in the Arabian Sea on New Year’s eve reveal that the first information of the boat passed on by the technical intelligence agency to the Coast Guard neither mentioned the word terror nor explosives, HT has learnt.

“Suspect Pak entity… undertaking suspect transaction in area (340 km off Porbandar),” said the first alert sent out by the NTRO to the Coast Guard and the Navy on December 31, 2014. HT saw the alerts the NTRO sent to the coastal agencies.

The NTRO followed its “suspect Pak entity” alert with a second alert to the Navy and Coast Guard, which did not mention the word “terror” either and revised the boat’s location from 340 km off Porbandar to 357 km from Porbandar.

confuzzled dude wrote:

The National Technical Research Organisation’s (NTRO's) intelligence alerts about the fishing boat that caught fire and sank in the Arabian Sea on New Year’s eve reveal that the first information of the boat passed on by the technical intelligence agency to the Coast Guard neither mentioned the word terror nor explosives, HT has learnt.

“Suspect Pak entity… undertaking suspect transaction in area (340 km off Porbandar),” said the first alert sent out by the NTRO to the Coast Guard and the Navy on December 31, 2014. HT saw the alerts the NTRO sent to the coastal agencies.

The NTRO followed its “suspect Pak entity” alert with a second alert to the Navy and Coast Guard, which did not mention the word “terror” either and revised the boat’s location from 340 km off Porbandar to 357 km from Porbandar.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/no-mention-of-terror-in-ntro-alert-to-coast-guard-over-pak-boat/article1-1304818.aspx

truthbetold wrote:Why the f' are you both so excited that ( according to you) Indian govt embellished some facts? Such propaganda happens between neighboring enemies all the time. What is the reason for your passionate posts?

Directly contradicting the government’s position, a Deputy Inspector General of the Coast Guard said Monday that it was the Coast Guard which blew up the Pakistani boat on the night of December 31, 2014. And that he was the one who ordered: “Blow the boat off…We don’t want to serve them biryani…”

This is the first time that the Coast Guard — in remarks that were recorded — has admitted that it destroyed the suspect boat which, the government claimed, had blown itself up under suspicious circumstances.

Marathadi-Saamiyaar wrote:

Aren't they Pakis ? Didn't they enter Indian waters illegally ? Aren't they petty smugglers (of guns and bombs, most likely)...?

They it is perfectly fine to blow the boat off. No sweat.