Indian population is growing much faster in the north – and the south is paying the pri

https://scroll.in/article/865569/indian-population-is-growing-much-faster-in-the-north-and-the-south-is-paying-the-price

Prix fix?

how about so many SI's heading north to increase the number of people there?

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:https://scroll.in/article/865569/indian-population-is-growing-much-faster-in-the-north-and-the-south-is-paying-the-price

High time for non Hindians in India to realize the imminent danger from the current colonial Hindian setup and make plans to escape from this.

Otherwise, your kids and future generations are going to be slaves for ever.

It is high time we build a 20 foot high wall at the Vindyas to keep out Hindian rapists, drug pushers, thieves and robbers like "south indian". We will allow the few good people like Rashmun.

Seriously, there should be some check in inter-state migration. There should be a type of work permit for outsiders administered by state. There should be strict language requirements.

Kayalvizhi wrote:It is high time we build a 20 foot high wall at the Vindyas to keep out Hindian rapists, drug pushers, thieves and robbers like "south indian". We will allow the few good people like Rashmun.

Seriously, there should be some check in inter-state migration. There should be a type of work permit for outsiders administered by state. There should be strict language requirements.

It is not just the south, the problem is everywhere. Check the fertility rates of different regions of India. Maharashtra, West Bengal, Punjab, Haryana , Kashmir, Uttarakhand, Himachal are all under replacement..

Situation is grave.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:https://scroll.in/article/865569/indian-population-is-growing-much-faster-in-the-north-and-the-south-is-paying-the-price

Baby! It's called immigration (within the country) ..... Much like the one YOU can do in USA   You can live in Texas if you want to and no one will stop you.

Same within France.... and also in India

PS: I HAD to post meaning of the word hypocrite. Sorry baby

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

Kayalvizhi wrote:It is high time we build a 20 foot high wall at the Vindyas to keep out Hindian rapists, drug pushers, thieves and robbers like "south indian". We will allow the few good people like Rashmun.

Seriously, there should be some check in inter-state migration. There should be a type of work permit for outsiders administered by state. There should be strict language requirements.

It is not just the south, the problem is everywhere. Check the fertility rates of different regions of India. Maharashtra, West Bengal, Punjab, Haryana , Kashmir, Uttarakhand, Himachal are all under replacement..

Situation is grave.

You should have been an eligible adult during Sanjay Gandhi's time in India.

You are perfect candidate for Sterilization minister under Sanjay Gandhi's Congress rule.

southindian wrote:
Baby! It's called immigration (within the country) ..... Much like the one YOU can do in USA   You can live in Texas if you want to and no one will stop you.

Same within France.... and also in India

 There is a major difference between USA and India.  There is a major difference between France and India.

USA is homogeneous geographically. Essentially the same mix of people in every state.


India has states, each with a different homogeneous population.

In USA and France, internal migration does not affect the demography much. In India it does. It must be stopped.

Independence of any non-Hindi state that wants it is the only solution.

Kayalvizhi wrote:

southindian wrote:
Baby! It's called immigration (within the country) ..... Much like the one YOU can do in USA   You can live in Texas if you want to and no one will stop you.

Same within France.... and also in India

There is a major difference between USA and India.  There is a major difference between France and India.

USA is homogeneous geographically. Essentially the same mix of people in every state.


India has states, each with a different homogeneous population.

In USA and France, internal migration does not affect the demography much. In India it does. It must be stopped.

Independence of any non-Hindi state that wants it is the only solution.

Awww.....

Oh Baby! Asshole. Now YOU and morons like YOU HERE will decide

• who should migrate
  
• how migration should happen in the world (in India).
  
• which race should be ALLOWED TO MIGRATE
  
• who should be ALLOWED TO COME TO USA from INDIA and from which states
  

Awww.... you and your race decides the demography of states, countries, region. Ammmaaazing!

What a mother-fucker you are  and morons here who think like you. 

Fucking hypocrites.

Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

It seems to be not a reliable information on population distribution in different states in India. It is based on the highly questionable fertility rates in different places (states) which during data collection could have been easily, even deliberately, manipulated / skewed through different and improper population samples (including types and sizes etc.) to get the “desired” results. There are serious doubts about the results and conclusions from the study in this report / article.
 
Thus, rather than considering the questionable fertility rates for population studies and comparisons, it would be better and more reliable to look at the states' entire populations as a whole on yearly and percentile bases while making comparisons with other states. 

Seva Lamberdar wrote:It seems to be not a reliable information on population distribution in different states in India. It is based on the highly questionable fertility rates in different places (states) which during data collection could have been easily, even deliberately, manipulated / skewed through different and improper population samples (including types and sizes etc.) to get the “desired” results. There are serious doubts about the results and conclusions from the study in this report / article.
 
Thus, rather than considering the questionable fertility rates for population studies and comparisons, it would be better and more reliable to look at the states' entire populations as a whole on yearly and percentile bases while making comparisons with other states. 

Correct, Sevaji. This could be fake news(like on social media etc.) based on fake surveys(including internet surveys etc.)

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

If Mexicans migrate to America, it is expected that Mexicans learn English and assimilate. Same logic for all migrants to America, If Tamils / Telugus / French migrate to US, they learn English and assimilate, they do not expect Americans to learn their respective languages.

But it is the reverse in India, when Hindians migrate to other states for livelihood they expect and force the locals to learn Hindi. This colonial attitude is made possible by the colonial Indian government that mandates the use of Hindi.

Best option for non Hindians to survive with pride is to develop hatred against the concept of colonial Hindia and work towards breaking it.

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:If Mexicans migrate to America, it is expected that Mexicans learn English and assimilate. Same logic for all migrants to America, If Tamils / Telugus / French migrate to US, they learn English and assimilate, they do not expect Americans to learn their respective languages.

But it is the reverse in India, when Hindians migrate to other states for livelihood they expect and force the locals to learn Hindi. This colonial attitude is made possible by the colonial Indian government that mandates the use of Hindi.

Best option for non Hindians to survive with pride is to develop hatred against the concept of colonial Hindia and work towards breaking it.

Idiot,

Hatred will not take you anywhere. You will burn in your own hatred, then one day will die.

India and the world will continue to move forward.

Ha ha..  Before the Indian independence movement kick started, people were generally reluctant to question the British colonial rule. The movement picked up steam and generated hatred against the British colonial rule culminating in 1947 with English/Hindi colonial rule.

It is the same case now. Now the time for different nationalities to question the Hindi colonial rule and break away.  Hatred against colonial rule is a good thing. 

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:Ha ha..  Before the Indian independence movement kick started, people were generally reluctant to question the British colonial rule. The movement picked up steam and generated hatred against the British colonial rule culminating in 1947 with English/Hindi colonial rule.

It is the same case now. Now the time for different nationalities to question the Hindi colonial rule and break away.  Hatred against colonial rule is a good thing. 

Ha ha ha.

Please go back and live in 900s. 2018 is not the year for you. Thank You.

India has moved on.

Ha ha.. moved on.. 

Did you read the news item that Hindi got kicked out of Bengaluru metro in 2018?.

Wait till you hear surprises in other regions.. 

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:Ha ha.. moved on.. 

Did you read the news item that Hindi got kicked out of Bengaluru metro in 2018?.

Wait till you hear surprises in other regions.. 

Its Okay. Save your hatred for someone else. India does not have any problem with any Indian languages.

Don't worry, you will die in India that we have today.

Well.. you never know. No one heard the term Pakistan in 1940. It became a reality in 1947.

So... 

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

Hindians can move to any part of India they want to live in, just like other Indian citizens can. That is not the issue. The issue is that when Hindians move to another part of India for economic opportunity, they do not learn the language, but insist on the locals taking on the burden of learning their language. The correct analogy would be if Puerto Ricans and Hawaiians (all American citizens) who moved to the US mainland insisted that Americans learn Spanish and Hawaiian to speak to them.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:https://scroll.in/article/865569/indian-population-is-growing-much-faster-in-the-north-and-the-south-is-paying-the-price

The south, east and west of India will pay a big price in parliamentary representation if and when the freeze on adjusting Lok Sabha seats is lifted. The freeze was supposed to be lifted in 2001, but some influential southern politicians (Naidu, Jayalalitha, Karunanidhi) lobbied for the maintenance of the freeze. Naidu started talking publicly about this issue around that time. Controlling population growth has been a stated objective of the union and the state governments for at least fifty years now. The south, west and east will be punished for succeeding at that national objective, while the Bimaru states will be politically rewarded for their failure. That is not how a federal system should align its incentives.

The right solution for this would be for the south, west and east to insist that the freeze continue as long as there is a significant different in fertility rates between states. Redistribution based on current population can take place once the Bimaru states fix their problem. They would still gain representation at the expense of the other regions, but with that approach, at least the problem would not continue to get worse every ten years.

Idéfix wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

Hindians can move to any part of India they want to live in, just like other Indian citizens can. That is not the issue. The issue is that when Hindians move to another part of India for economic opportunity, they do not learn the language, but insist on the locals taking on the burden of learning their language. The correct analogy would be if Puerto Ricans and Hawaiians (all American citizens) who moved to the US mainland insisted that Americans learn Spanish and Hawaiian to speak to them.

Yes, but the arrogant attitude of Hindians is facilitated by the colonial Indian setup that privileges the two colonial languages English and Hindi over other native languages. In order for the union to survive, every language should get the privilege of being the official language of the union just like European Union.

Uncontrolled population growth in Hindi states also meaNs more monies from South India transferred (looted) to Hindi states.

Right now (2016), For every Rs. 100 collected in taxes fro TN, it got back Rs. 40. Kerala got back Rs. 25 for every Rs. 100 it gave to India.

In contrast UP got Rs. 179 for every Rs. 100 it gave to India. Since a dominant factor in allocation of funds to states is population, this will increase as they reproduce more and more.

ONLY way to stop is for non-hindi states to separate from India.

where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

Kayalvizhi wrote:Uncontrolled population growth in Hindi states also meaNs more monies from South India transferred (looted) to Hindi states.

Right now (2016), For every Rs. 100 collected in taxes fro TN, it got back Rs. 40. Kerala got back Rs. 25 for every Rs. 100 it gave to India.

In contrast UP got Rs. 179 for every Rs. 100 it gave to India. Since a dominant factor in allocation of funds to states is population, this will increase as they reproduce more and more.

ONLY way to stop is for non-hindi states to separate from India.

Lesson from t he above data is "do not educate, do not industrialize, do not study, do not work, just PROCREATE and you can loot others money".

THIS SHOULD END

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

This is bizarre! I have gone out of my way to say that I do NOT support any restrictions on inter state migration etc, and yet you insist on continuing in this angry vein. I am not responsible for your lack of equanimity or the deficiencies not rectified by your high school teacher.

rasāsvāda wrote:where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

That's not the point. It's quite amazing that this bears repeating for the 14 millionth time. Whether or not Tamils choose to learn or speak hindi is NOT the point. The point is underhanded efforts by the central government (of both parties) to push hindi as the national language despite an explicit statement in the constitution that there is NO national language, and the expectation of northerners when they move to southern states for economic reasons that the locals should make their lives easier by speaking to them in hindi. Whether you like it or not, and despite the barrage of protestations that are about to descend on this thread from you know who, many Tamilians (and increasingly it seems Kannadigas) do not want to privilege hindi over their own languages. Their affection (call it pride whatever, we don't care) for their language is closely tied with their sense of cultural identity. Trampling on it is the source of needless and idiotic friction.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

This is bizarre! I have gone out of my way to say that I do NOT support any restrictions on inter state migration etc, and yet you insist on continuing in this angry vein.  I am not responsible for your lack of equanimity or the deficiencies not rectified by your high school teacher.

That's it?



When Paki actors, performers come to India, enjoy India's hospitality, fame, money and warmth they generously talk about it. 

BUT, ANY incident of Paki terrorist activity in India, or Indian soldiers' bodies mutilation, the same Pakis 'decline to utter a word against their terrorism' or even condemn Paki government. That's you, when folks here talk about breaking India.

Seva Lamberdar wrote:HA, these results and inferences on population growth using fertility rates are like the results from marketing surveys which claim things like 9 out of 10 people preferring one brand of tooth paste over another or 15 out of 20 people preferring colored socks over white socks.  It would be better instead to look at and gather data for each state's entire population together on yearly (or 5-yearly or decade) basis and then use that information to determine the percentage growth in population for each state. Those numbers (states-wise percentage increases in populations over some period) can then be compared against one another to draw meaningful conclusions about rise in population in different states.

Using fertility rates in the study of populations can certainly lead to wrong / meaningless results and conclusions. For example, someone in his study on Indian populations selects a group of 5 Muslim women having had (given birth to) 8 children in total, another group of 10 Hindu women having 25 children in total and yet another group of 3 Christian women having 10 children in total. He then calculates the fertility rates as 8/5 (or 1.6) for Muslim women, 25/10 (or 2.5) for Hindu women and 10/3 (or 3.3) for Christian women. Based on these data, he will be declaring that Muslim fertility rates are the lowest in India, whereas Hindu fertility rates are higher than Muslims' and the Christian fertility rates highest, thus implying even that Muslim population is growing at the slowest pace in India, the Hindu population is growing faster than Muslims and the Christian population growing faster than both Muslims and Hindus.

Next, in another population study he might select three groups of 50 women each from the states West Bengal, Tamilnadu and Bihar. His sample group of 50 Bengali women could include professional and highly educated women and they are generally in forties age range. The sample group of 50 Tamil women could include mostly the school teachers and office workers and be in the thirties age range. The sample group having 50 Bihari women could be the housewives etc. and in the twenties age range. As can be expected, the Bengali group of 50 women (mostly in the forties age range and working as professionals etc.) are likely to give birth to least number of children (let's say 10 children born to them in total during 2 years period). On the other hand, the Tamil group of 50 women (mostly in their thirties and working as school teachers etc.) are likely to bear more children than their Bengali counterparts in the same period (let's say 20 kids in total born to Tamil women during two year period). As expected also, the Bihari group of 50 women (selected from the housewives etc. and in the twenties age range mostly) will have more kids in the same two years than their counterparts from W. Bengal and Tamilnadu (for example, 50 women in the Bihari sample could give birth to 40 children in the same two years when 50 women in the Tamilnadu sample had 20 kids and 50 women in the Bengali sample had 10 kids). This will result in the fertility rate of 40/50 (or 0. for Bihari women, 20/50 (or 0.4) for Tamil women and 10/50 (or 0.2) for Bengali women, implying based on this survey / study that the population growth according to these fertility rates is fastest in Bihar, Tamilnadu coming next and W. Bengal is in the last place in terms of population increase.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

That's not the point. It's quite amazing that this bears repeating for the 14 millionth time. Whether or not Tamils choose to learn or speak hindi is NOT the point. The point is underhanded efforts by the central government (of both parties) to push hindi as the national language despite an explicit statement in the constitution that there is NO national language, and the expectation of northerners when they move to southern states for economic reasons that the locals should make their lives easier by speaking to them in hindi. Whether you like it or not, and despite the barrage of protestations that are about to descend on this thread from you  know who, many Tamilians (and increasingly it seems Kannadigas) do not want to privilege hindi over their own languages. Their affection (call it pride whatever, we don't care) for their language is closely tied with their sense of cultural identity.  Trampling on it is the source of needless and idiotic friction.  

This is all good about people who are local in a region and don't plan to immigrate and don't care for tourists. It also make sense if someone is going to settle in any region and interact with locals, they need to pick up the local language. But what about the rest?


Like I mentioned, our experience in Kerala was a revelation when we had very little language issue in communicating, mostly coz we also found a lot of people very fluent in English. However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali.  I guess this means while most of them can speak Hindi, they most likely can't read or write it. But then I was not looking out for it. Even if there was something in Devanagari, I wouldn't have given it a second thought, which was poor observation on my part.


With Kerala I can understand why they would want to learn Hindi, as many of them chose professions like nursing and move to work in north, so I can understand them wanting to learn it. Also, they get a lot of tourism from all over India. 


After all, English was also pushed down the throats of all Indians at one time, now people are actually proud of that skill. I see no cultural adverse impact on Tamil coz of that (correct me if i am wrong). Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one, considering there are many people all over India who fear English more? If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi? 


All talks aside, ultimately common sense prevails.

rasāsvāda wrote:
This is all good about people who are local in a region and don't plan to immigrate and don't care for tourists. It also make sense if someone is going to settle in any region and interact with locals, they need to pick up the local language. But what about the rest?

------  However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali.  I guess this means while most of them can speak Hindi, they most likely can't read or write it. But then I was not looking out for it.

----------- Also, they get a lot of tourism from all over India. 


---------- Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one

--------If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi? 

rasavada,

I saw your name only a few days ago. I limit my reading here to matters concerning my people and homeland. So I did not read any of your posts because heading did not interest me. suggest those topics.

Your post is typical of most Hindian mentality. I am not saying you are bad or anti-Tamil or Hindi fanatic. You were obviously brought up, grew and educated in an environment that infused this type of views.

Your main thrust in the first part is that you need to put Hindi signs and speak Hindi to attract tourists from "India". Indians are not all Hindians. Do your people put Tamil signs all over UP or MP or whatever are the Hindian states (I know some Hindian states were created during the last decade).

Those who come to Tamil Nadu as tourists must know English (we are broad minded people unlike Hindians who do not want to use any other language except their mother tongue) or come with a tourists Tamil-English dictionary. I had a German-English tourist dictionary  when I visited Hanover.

Have you ever been out of India/Hindia? Suppose you visit England, do youy expect Hindi signs aatnd merchants talking to you in Hindi?

Those who come to work and make a living in Tamil Nadu MUST learn Tamil.
You say common language should be Hindi because it is "Indian" and English is foreign. Hindi is foreign to me. I am not the first one to say that.

Pattom Thanu Pillai (Former Chief Minister, Kerala State): "Hindi is as much alien to South Indians as English is to Indians". You can see more quotes (pro and ant Hindi)
http://www.tamiltribune.com/hindi/index.html#cat02
Quotes from Hindi and Non-Hindi Leaders about Hindi as Official Language

By the way Hindians think they are now the masters/rulers the former British colony that became this artificial country called "India". No non-Hindian go outside his/her state and expect to do everything in his/her mother tongue. Only Hindians do that.
If tou are open minded read this webpage which has the viewpoint just the opposite of what you were exposed in most of your life.
http://www.tamiltribune.com/hindi/index.html

rasāsvāda wrote:However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali. 

Malayalam - language;
Malayali - a person who is a native Malayalam speaker;

rasāsvāda wrote:But what about the rest?

What do you do when you go to Japan or Finland as a tourist? Do you expect them to speak to you in Hindi. If Japanese and Finns speak to you in Hindi, that is their choice.  They have chosen to make you feel comfortable. But it is ridiculous for you to expect them to make you feel comfortable by speaking to you in Hindi.  A choice they make is not the same as a default expectation on your side.  They are two completely different things.

rasāsvāda wrote:After all, English was also pushed down the throats of all Indians at one time, now people are actually proud of that skill. I see no cultural adverse impact on Tamil coz of that (correct me if i am wrong). Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one, considering there are many people all over India who fear English more? If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi?

Colonialism affected all Indians, not just southern Indians. And whether we like it or not, English is the lingua franca of corporations in India especially multinational corporations. Learning English imposes an equal burden on all Indians. Any other language imposes an unequal burden on one group of people. That is not acceptable to fair-minded people.  And given our colonial history, English is an Indian language too.  It's the only fair and viable language that is justifiable as a common language. It is irrelevant that it is "foreign".  All languages are foreign or were foreign to some group of people who had to learn it.  If I am business person, I would do what it takes to succeed.  However, what we are talking about is the role of government in promoting linguistic uniformity.  Let us not confuse volitional choice of people with a state-abetted linguistic hegemony.

rasāsvāda wrote:All talks aside, ultimately common sense prevails.

Indeed! And my common sense tells me that seventy years after independence Indians have already made a choice as to their operational national language -- English.  And common sense dictates that Indians' educational and career choices inside and outside of India would broaden if they embraced it more willingly.

" A choice they make is not the same as a default expectation on your side.  They are two completely different things."


never said it was my default expectation. Already stated how it was a revelation. We got hustled by street vendors in hindi, for coconut water, perfumes, pineapple, jewelry. If that class of people, malayali mind you (they weren't bihari immigrants), is making a choice to speak in hindi, that tells a lot about where the common sense is going. 


how many people plan to go outside india out of the 125 crore we have? Most of the time they have to deal with each other, now more than ever. India comprises of a lot of poor and lower middle class people who do not take to English that well, and as i learned that was the case in Kerala. To quite a few people, we gave them a choice to speak in English or Hindi, and they said their Hindi is better (it was atrocious, but they refused to speak in English too). to me it seems like more and more people are embracing hindi, while some folks like you are trying to push English down their throats. I don't know why. 

rasāsvāda wrote: while some folks like you are trying to push English down their throats.

How did you conclude that?

rasāsvāda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

That's not the point. It's quite amazing that this bears repeating for the 14 millionth time. Whether or not Tamils choose to learn or speak hindi is NOT the point. The point is underhanded efforts by the central government (of both parties) to push hindi as the national language despite an explicit statement in the constitution that there is NO national language, and the expectation of northerners when they move to southern states for economic reasons that the locals should make their lives easier by speaking to them in hindi. Whether you like it or not, and despite the barrage of protestations that are about to descend on this thread from you  know who, many Tamilians (and increasingly it seems Kannadigas) do not want to privilege hindi over their own languages. Their affection (call it pride whatever, we don't care) for their language is closely tied with their sense of cultural identity.  Trampling on it is the source of needless and idiotic friction.  

This is all good about people who are local in a region and don't plan to immigrate and don't care for tourists. It also make sense if someone is going to settle in any region and interact with locals, they need to pick up the local language. But what about the rest?


Like I mentioned, our experience in Kerala was a revelation when we had very little language issue in communicating, mostly coz we also found a lot of people very fluent in English. However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali.  I guess this means while most of them can speak Hindi, they most likely can't read or write it. But then I was not looking out for it. Even if there was something in Devanagari, I wouldn't have given it a second thought, which was poor observation on my part.


With Kerala I can understand why they would want to learn Hindi, as many of them chose professions like nursing and move to work in north, so I can understand them wanting to learn it. Also, they get a lot of tourism from all over India. 


After all, English was also pushed down the throats of all Indians at one time, now people are actually proud of that skill. I see no cultural adverse impact on Tamil coz of that (correct me if i am wrong). Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one, considering there are many people all over India who fear English more? If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi? 


All talks aside, ultimately common sense prevails.

Everyone got brainwashed to think that learning Hindi would help in improving their livelihood since the economy is controlled by the Hindi colonial government. But they realized it is a bogus claim made by the colonial govt when they saw Hindi speakers migrating all the way to do menial jobs in their native places.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote: while some folks like you are trying to push English down their throats.

How did you conclude that?

based on your relentless arguments to push English for last 10 years and not finding any resonance with the worker class in many states, maybe?

I wanted to edit to my above post, as i recall more and more interactions. Some locals would simply start talking to us fluently in Hindi, we didn't even have to ask, in fact we marveled at their grasp of the language, inspite of heavy accent. I would not say a 100% of them knew Hindi, because with quite a few people our guide exchanged convo in Malayalam, so we don't know. 

I am not going to speak on the role of the central government, coz i have no idea about it. If you are feeling enraged about their actions, and if it's not exaggerated (by you), then I will agree with your indignation. But your anger is not going to change what the general population is heading towards, saying this based on my experiences so far. However, based on a good balance of love for culture and languages spoken that I saw there in Kerala, i think it will be alright.

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

That's not the point. It's quite amazing that this bears repeating for the 14 millionth time. Whether or not Tamils choose to learn or speak hindi is NOT the point. The point is underhanded efforts by the central government (of both parties) to push hindi as the national language despite an explicit statement in the constitution that there is NO national language, and the expectation of northerners when they move to southern states for economic reasons that the locals should make their lives easier by speaking to them in hindi. Whether you like it or not, and despite the barrage of protestations that are about to descend on this thread from you  know who, many Tamilians (and increasingly it seems Kannadigas) do not want to privilege hindi over their own languages. Their affection (call it pride whatever, we don't care) for their language is closely tied with their sense of cultural identity.  Trampling on it is the source of needless and idiotic friction.  

This is all good about people who are local in a region and don't plan to immigrate and don't care for tourists. It also make sense if someone is going to settle in any region and interact with locals, they need to pick up the local language. But what about the rest?


Like I mentioned, our experience in Kerala was a revelation when we had very little language issue in communicating, mostly coz we also found a lot of people very fluent in English. However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali.  I guess this means while most of them can speak Hindi, they most likely can't read or write it. But then I was not looking out for it. Even if there was something in Devanagari, I wouldn't have given it a second thought, which was poor observation on my part.


With Kerala I can understand why they would want to learn Hindi, as many of them chose professions like nursing and move to work in north, so I can understand them wanting to learn it. Also, they get a lot of tourism from all over India. 


After all, English was also pushed down the throats of all Indians at one time, now people are actually proud of that skill. I see no cultural adverse impact on Tamil coz of that (correct me if i am wrong). Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one, considering there are many people all over India who fear English more? If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi? 


All talks aside, ultimately common sense prevails.

Everyone got brainwashed to think that learning Hindi would help in improving their livelihood since the economy is controlled by the Hindi colonial government. But they realized it is a bogus claim made by the colonial govt when they saw Hindi speakers migrating all the way to do menial jobs in their native places.

or maybe you got brainwashed by tamil fanatics and politicians that anything north indian is suspicious?

Anyway, i am out of this thread. not my scene. Just wanted to share my wonderful Kerala experience, although I think people around me are bored of it now.

I have never "pushed" English. I am in no position to do so. I neither have a job with the TN state government nor with the central government. I have no position of influence. I was merely observing the choices already made by the business community in India. 

As for indignation, I feel less emotion about all this with every passing year. In all honesty, I feel less connected to India as time marches on. It was important to me when I felt more connected to India and TN. If this is important to the Thamizhars like Selvan living in India, it is up to them to carry on the fight.  To the extent that they feel the need to have a voice in the US and with the US government, I am willing to give my time, $, and effort to their cause but it is their fight primarily, not mine.

vendors selling stuff to tourists speak in whatever language which helps them sell stuff.
look at this kid


to extrapolate that to all malayalis is typical thinking of a "cryptics expert" who doesn't know the difference between 'accept' and 'except'.
https://such.forumotion.com/t44037-jersey-tomato

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
Everyone got brainwashed to think that learning Hindi would help in improving their livelihood since the economy is controlled by the Hindi colonial government.

The living Tamil leader I most admire once said, "Hindians are saying "study Hindi, you will have jobs and money" is like a beggar coming to your house and saying pour me some porridge (kanchi) I will tell you the way to wealth and prosperity".

rasāsvāda wrote:

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

rasāsvāda wrote:where is Kerala in all this fight? Asking coz recently visited the state and the locals almost all knew Hindi, sometimes preferring it over English.

That's not the point. It's quite amazing that this bears repeating for the 14 millionth time. Whether or not Tamils choose to learn or speak hindi is NOT the point. The point is underhanded efforts by the central government (of both parties) to push hindi as the national language despite an explicit statement in the constitution that there is NO national language, and the expectation of northerners when they move to southern states for economic reasons that the locals should make their lives easier by speaking to them in hindi. Whether you like it or not, and despite the barrage of protestations that are about to descend on this thread from you  know who, many Tamilians (and increasingly it seems Kannadigas) do not want to privilege hindi over their own languages. Their affection (call it pride whatever, we don't care) for their language is closely tied with their sense of cultural identity.  Trampling on it is the source of needless and idiotic friction.  

This is all good about people who are local in a region and don't plan to immigrate and don't care for tourists. It also make sense if someone is going to settle in any region and interact with locals, they need to pick up the local language. But what about the rest?


Like I mentioned, our experience in Kerala was a revelation when we had very little language issue in communicating, mostly coz we also found a lot of people very fluent in English. However, all the boards and signs were in English and/or Malayali.  I guess this means while most of them can speak Hindi, they most likely can't read or write it. But then I was not looking out for it. Even if there was something in Devanagari, I wouldn't have given it a second thought, which was poor observation on my part.


With Kerala I can understand why they would want to learn Hindi, as many of them chose professions like nursing and move to work in north, so I can understand them wanting to learn it. Also, they get a lot of tourism from all over India. 


After all, English was also pushed down the throats of all Indians at one time, now people are actually proud of that skill. I see no cultural adverse impact on Tamil coz of that (correct me if i am wrong). Your state government continued to favor/push English over Hindi, is that correct? If there has to be a unifying language among Indians (in India), should it be an Indian language, or a foreign one, considering there are many people all over India who fear English more? If you are a practical business in any region who's expecting a lot of Indian customers of all income/educational range, would you still be as averse to Hindi? 


All talks aside, ultimately common sense prevails.

Everyone got brainwashed to think that learning Hindi would help in improving their livelihood since the economy is controlled by the Hindi colonial government. But they realized it is a bogus claim made by the colonial govt when they saw Hindi speakers migrating all the way to do menial jobs in their native places.

or maybe you got brainwashed by tamil fanatics and politicians that anything north indian is suspicious?

Anyway, i am out of this thread. not my scene. Just wanted to share my wonderful Kerala experience, although I think people around me are bored of it now.

Did you read what I said?. I just asked a basic question about why people who migrate to another region for their living expect or demand the natives there to speak their language.  If you cannot answer that just stay silent, do not waste time.

Kayalvizhi wrote:

Ponniyin Selvan wrote:
Everyone got brainwashed to think that learning Hindi would help in improving their livelihood since the economy is controlled by the Hindi colonial government.

The living Tamil leader I most admire once said, "Hindians are saying "study Hindi, you will have jobs and money" is like a beggar coming to your house and saying pour me some porridge (kanchi) I will tell you the way to wealth and prosperity".

That really is funny! But you're going to really hurt Saood's feelings.

Idéfix wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:

southindian wrote:

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:Impractical and possibly extra-constitutional proposals like controlling migration and raising walls aside, the states still have the means to resist language imposition and attempts at forced cultural homogenization. The kinds of strident protests like those occurring in Karnataka must be encouraged and joined by other southern states. There's strength in numbers. If Thamizhars are flagging in their anti-Hindi stance, it's good Kannadigas are stepping up.

The position should be that all are welcome, but the price for admission is to learn the local language.

Saood's hyperventilation is quite comical to watch.

Good! Keep watching Max. You are doing a good job 'in an attempt to make a stable statement'. 

You must have voted for asshole Trump in the last election. If you replace Hindians in SouthIndia with Mexicans, Muslims in US then Donald Trump thinks exactly like you.

#FuckingHypocritesCanBeAnywhere

The bolded statements are contradictions of each other. Deep breath. Think again.

Baby,

I had to let go my breath. Could not hold for too long.

Their is no contradiction. Asshole Trump does not want Mexicans, Muslims  to come to USA because they are not Americans and Muslims are not Christians and Hindians not welcome in SouthIndia 'because they dilute the great SouthIndian race'. 

No contradictions.

US is considered a melting pot of cultures and morons like you come to USA, while maintaining your culture, language and food. And that is why you enjoy the freedom. You speak non-Tamil in USA but that's Okay.

When it comes to India your hypocrisy beams from MA to all parts of the world.

Baby, you can't stop Hindians from moving to and living in SouthIndia or any part of their own country, just like as US citizen no one can stop you from moving to Arizona.

Hindians can move to any part of India they want to live in, just like other Indian citizens can. That is not the issue. The issue is that when Hindians move to another part of India for economic opportunity, they do not learn the language, but insist on the locals taking on the burden of learning their language. The correct analogy would be if Puerto Ricans and Hawaiians (all American citizens) who moved to the US mainland insisted that Americans learn Spanish and Hawaiian to speak to them.

Oh! I now understand. Tamils are opposing against Hindi like they did against English when British 'forced' them. Its a shame how thousands Tamils die every year fighting against English in TN, USA, Canada. They fight everyday to speak Tamil at workplace.

Sorry no, that doesn't happen.

Does Max stop Mexicans, South Americans from speaking in Spanish openly in US? No!! His children learn Spanish in school, while he protests online against Hindians.

His passport is US and still his children learnt Spanish. Did he/children protest against Spanish? No, Trump is against that and Max is against Trump. 

Can you or Max share with us, how many US districts taught Spanish 40 years ago?

Irony is a fucking bitch. Isn't it? 

Believe me, nobody cares about culture, language ANYWHERE as long as money, special interests are not hurt. They are fine if kids do not speak Tamil, eat Pizza and marry a white but get ants-in-their-pant if Hindans live in Tamil Nadu.

Response to southindian


<<Its a shame how thousands Tamils die every year fighting against English in USA, Canada.>>


We choose to come and live in US, Canada. We adapt to them. We learn the language of the land. That is what we want Hindians living in TN to do. Learn our language. That is the whole thrust of this thread.


<<Does Max stop Mexicans, South Americans from speaking in Spanish openly in US? >>


As far as I can tell, Max is not going around beating up Hindians speaking Hindi among themselves. What I want is Hindians living in TN speaking in Tamil to Tamils.


<<Can you or Max share with us, how many US districts taught Spanish 40 years ago?>>


Key here is that the school district decided to teach Spanishj as optional language. Mexican government did not force districts or states to teach Spanish. They chose to do so.


 If Tamil Nadu government choose to teach Hindi in schools I will accept the decision but Indian government should not be the decider.

MaxEntropy_Man wrote:I have never "pushed" English. I am in no position to do so. I neither have a job with the TN state government nor with the central government. I have no position of influence. I was merely observing the choices already made by the business community in India. 

As for indignation, I feel less emotion about all this with every passing year. In all honesty, I feel less connected to India as time marches on. It was important to me when I felt more connected to India and TN. If this is important to the Thamizhars like Selvan living in India, it is up to them to carry on the fight.  To the extent that they feel the need to have a voice in the US and with the US government, I am willing to give my time, $, and effort to their cause but it is their fight primarily, not mine.

Thanks Max, 

Best way to fight Hindi colonialism is for the overseas Tamils, Kannadigas, and non Hindi nationalities to disassociate themselves from India and form their own associations / pressure groups. For religious reasons if anyone wants to associate, use the Hindu tag and not the colonial Indian tag. 

De legitmise the colonial idea of India. Unless Hindi colonial India turns into a truly federal European Union kind of arrangement, there is no future for Hindi colonial India.